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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
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And once again equal level engagement is not GANKING!
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It's partially a players choice to commit suicide by not fighting back, and trying to save yourself, which you have option to.
You don't wish to fight back? Ok, but don't put full blame on others for your death then, it's half your fault.
Ganking = killing LOWER LEVELS who can't win even if they fight back (and for this stat degradation is ok).
Choosing not to fight back = half your fault that you ended up dead, same like not trying to exit a burning building but choosing to remain inside knowing you will die if you try nothing (and for this stat degradation is NOT OK).
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EVEN IF you will call your not fighting back and dieing a MURDER, it still isn't GANKING. Ganking is killing lower level who doesn't even have an option to successfuly fight back.
Here is a RL example:
* Someone breaks glass, hotwires your car and steals it. This is punishable by the law.
* Ok, now in second example you left your keys in car doors, someone uses key to unlock car, turn it on and steal it. It is still a crime, BUT law looks at this crime Much DIFFERENTLY, and punishment is much lower, because it WAS HALF YOUR FAULT that the thief was able to steal your car.
Check laws if you don't believe me. The same way by not fighting back in Ashes it's HALF YOUR FAULT that you ended up dead.
Thus a crime should be treated a lot more leniently. Thus stat degradation is very unfair here.
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And again I am not asking for removal of corruption, I am asking for removal of stat degradation for EQUAL LEVEL engagement.
Also STAT DEGRADATION would mean that whole BOUNTY HUNTER SYSTEM is something laughable. Basically a race for who will reach target first and 2 shot him (or at least kill him very easily).
Do you wish bounty hunter system to be this? Skill-less race of people to see who hits target first? I surely don't. But this is what stat degradation will do.
I will not touch bounty hunter system with a 2 meter stick like that. I would be ashamed to participate really.
But again, I know my words will hit deaf ears here again. So I guess nothing I say will mean anything to you. But at least I HOPE it will mean something to devs.
Suicide? What the hell you are talking about? You dont clearly understand the design of AoC open world. There are lots of players who dont want to PvP at all or they want to do that in specific PvP areas. Lets call them PvE players. Now AoC developers wants to cater also these type of players and gives them good changes to avoid open world PvP. That way these PvE oriented players can also enjoy the game. If the open world would be more about ganking/PKing and forces players to participate PvP, that will lead to situation where PvE playerbase will leave.
Now you are basically asking devs to deceive the PvE and PvX playerbase by changing the open world to cater these PvP players who wants to kill PvE minded players. Also you want to do that with less penalty and with protection of green players not to attack corrupted players freely. You dont clearly understand how pathetic that suggestion is at first place.
Try to understand that those PvE and PvX players are the main audiance and not player killers and gankers! If you dont want to understand this starting point, then its clearly no need to continue this discussion.
In ashes, you're not supposed to run up and try to kill every other player you see... i mean, you could... but that's really not what the game designers of this... or any other MMO i can think of.. have in mind.
PVP is an element of the game, it isn't the entire game.
There will be plenty of opportunity for PVP with the rules that the devs have laid out.
And i agree with you that PvP is just one element of AoC and OWPvP is just one smaller part of the PvP itself. Developers vision of meaningful PvP conflict is absolutly fantastic approach and one of the biggest reasons i have started to follow AoCs development.
the game forced players to travel in groups and stick close to 'safe' areas . Kinda lame
But here is another newsflash for you. I am not writing my feedback for YOU because I do not care about your misguided opinions.
I write my feedback, and my opinions for devs to read.
So go try to sell your vision of what ganking means to someone else.
For me (and most other players) ganking is, and always will be, killing of lower levels whose lower level means certain death for them because they cant win vs you.
Carebears not wishing to fight back, that's something completely different.
Cya
Now what i noticed in Albion community, lots of people speaked about ganking really generally when they just mean open world roaming and player killing. Going to kill and hunt down people is easy to just call ganking and i guess thats the main reason why its more commonly used that way nowdays. Also open world PvP conflicts are usually unfair and that might have something to do with that too.
I dont know why this so huge issue with you, because everyone else seems to be fine with it. Its not something i have made up my mind, i just use the word like many people have used before me. I dont say its reasonable to use ganking with so general meaning, but it works nicely and at least makes explaining more easier.
I also agree that corruption timers should be paused when a player goes offline to avoid them taking advantage of the system just to be a douche. Corruption needs to account for online time only
"Now this corruption value stays with you until you die. If you die while corrupt, the death penalties that you will receive will be tripled from what it would have been had you died while a noncombatant. So those death penalties include a negative experience that you gain an experience debt. It doesn't necessarily de-level your character, but that experience debt, as it accrues, will cause skill penalties, will cause stat penalties, and if you just go on a PKing rage where you are just killing a bunch of noncombatants, that death penalty, that experience debt is just going to rack up and it’s going to adversely affect your ability to participate in combat. So this prevents PK alts from being made. So that’s corruption. If you die, you’ll lose a value of corruption equal to your level in game and how much experience loss you accrue from death."
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fvr9KYT104i8WYppCup1v6SUTZFJTobVz8uRHDas4YM/edit
It sounds like players will mostly be fighting for resources and political/personal reasons. You aren't going to kill people to get tokens but you will kill people so that you can take resources from caravans, dungeons, world bosses, etc. On top of this, there will be relationships you form with different players as you fight against and with people. You might attack someone because you don't like them or you might defend a caravan because you know the guy running it. There will be plenty of reasons to fight.
https://wiki.ashesofcommunity.com/wiki/PvP
I agree with Iscoed and Revanon on this a bit. I think we need to add a new chart to the system.
The system should be devised not just based on Attacking but also based on Defending.
This could already be accounted for if the original chart is based on who initiates the attack only, I am not sure about this or not just from what I have read so far.
Examples:
- Combatant defends against a Non Combatant = Combatant
- Combatant attacks a Non Combatant = Corrupt.
I have to say I agree with most of the system except for " If the attacked players fight back, they are also flagged as combatants, otherwise the attacked player will remain flagged as a non-combatant. " I do not think a Non Combatant that defends themselves by attacking their assailants should be flagged as a Combatant.The bounty hunter system sounds great. A lot of time went into this and I can't wait to try it out. I am sure the system could end up getting a few changes during testing but I hope not too much is necessary.
Let's say as you are attacking a mob a passer-by not in your group get's a little close to the AOE. Do they get damaged and would you get flagged for unintentionally damaging another player.
Also does anyone have the specifics or point me in the right direction of how Combatants lose their flag. I've seen how Corrupt lose theirs but nothing specific on combatants other than time. Is there more specifics like how long and such.
If it is time based I think someone brought up before I believe if for Corrupt their timer should freeze and not countdown while logged out.
AoE and other non-forced attacks will not hit non-combatants (green flagged players).
Players loose combatant status after a period of time after leaving a PvP zone (battleground).
Corrupt players can only loose corruption via death. There is no indication if the timer freezes while logged out, but yes that would make sense
Developer quotes backing up the above info can be found here: https://wiki.ashesofcommunity.com/wiki/PvP#Player_flagging
With both bounty hunters and a larger subset of the population being antipk (Antis for anyone who played UO). I think the fear of a pk run game are vastly overblown. Will there be pks? Yes there will. Will there be pk guilds? Yes there will be. But by no means will they be the standard. Being the target of everyone around you is by far more of a nerf than a stat reduction would ever need be.
Also for those worrying over flagging and being primarily a crafter or pve player. Do not worry. One flagging actually harms those players who wish to only pk. It reduces the death penalty and actually reduces the loot they gain. Thus you maintain far more of the goods you wanted. His givea you two choices to maintain youre goods or not fight back and force them into higher levels of corruption. In addition, as ashes is a pvx game and not everyone will build crafters bullying a guild of crafters is a foolish endeavor. As those crafters will also be wartime engineers. Siege weapons are craftable and the entire group you picked a fight with might well be the siege arm of a larger guild that will steamroll any competition. A talented war engineer for node wars will be an extremely sought after commodity seeing as top tier nodes are limited. All in all i see a lot of good in the system as it allows for multiple types of players to benefit. ( Pure crafter, pure pvper, or a mixture of both)
Besides that, i don't know if they have talked about it.
A simple fix would be to add a stat debuff (damage, healing, health, mitigation, gather speed/quantity/quality and or reduced carry capacity) to any character holding experience debt (More severe for players with corruption) and remove the exp debt from consensual pvp.
This doesn't change the existing system by much, keeps things in line with IS stance on killing lowbies (ganking) and encourages people to flag up.
I see a lot of posts where people want to push the game into what they want.
Why can't it be a game that we all want?
At first I was worried the PVP was a bit unbalanced, I was worried about the opposite that Non-Combatants had more risk. So I wrote a post, Proposal for slight change in the PVP Flagging System ~ (determined unnecessary), which after listening to some of the peoples responses and trying to be unbiased run various scenarios in my mind, I came to the conclusion I was wrong and maybe the developers had it right all along. I edited the post as (determined unnecessary) and left the post up, simply for the reason that if people shared my initial concern maybe they could see what I saw when I altered my thoughts. I was initially concerned cause well I am normally more drawn to PVE over PVP and maybe my thoughts were a bit biased to begin with.
Some primarily want a PVE game and some want a PVP game and some love the potential of it being both. The developers are envisioning a PVX game, something different and something more than games that just lean towards one or the other.
They are trying to create the system that allows for dynamic game play and want to try to encourage PVP but also limit potential bullying.
I think ultimately we have to wait and see what happens. Sometimes whats written on paper sounds great and doesn't work out. Sometimes what is written down sounds like it won't work but does. Ultimately time will tell.
Until we start playing the game all we can do is speculate on what will and will not work what we will and will not like.
I think meanwhile we voice what we would like to see but also listen to what other would like also with an open mind and hope and truest the Developers will do what is right and imbalances will be worked out during Alpha phase.
I feel like the death penalty for non-tagged players shouldn't be higher than flagged when it comes to player versus player combat. I overall like the looks of this system, but that area I think could be smoothed out to make sure penalties hit intended targets.