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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I didn't say how much should grind take.
My point was that if the same exact outfit was available to be grinded out AND in cash shop, then it's price in cash shop should closely represent players grinding time investment.
So outfit that is easily achieved in game by doing 1-2 dungeons should perhaps cost 1-2 $, and outfit that needs 2 weeks of dull grind should cost 50$.
Price tags I offered here serve just as an example. My point is that you can't put outfit in cash shop, charge it 3$, while in same time offer that outfit "available in game" but only after a 3 month grind... That would be laughing in players faces, telling them BS "it's available in game", knowing it's not worth to anyone to grind that amount of time if alternative is paying an amount equal to cost of small cup of coffee.
This is not a proportionate "time = money" value.
That was my point. I hope you understand now.
No, surely allowing both to be available, and trusting the individual players to work out how much they think their time is worth and to pick the better option?
Just continues to push me to lean towards no micro transactions. Would eliminate the problem altogether.
I don't think these, quite frankly silly, arguments do much for the debate.
No, people with minimal income are unlikely to be play due to sub cost, however personally, as I am never going to be able to work again, have limited funds given by the state to support me, it would be more sensible for me to use my money for electric bills than to buy spangly cosmetics. Put simply ANY price on the cosmetics would be too high.
Personally though I don't care about heating.... so whilst I'd choose to grind it, if I had to find a costume for an rp alt quickly then it's spangly cosmetics all the way
The cost of what is affordable and better cannot be dictated or guessed at by others not in the exact same situation themselves.
hopefully it will not hurt the game. Just to clarify : From the posts I made they could make someone believe that I want everything in the cash shop. I think cash shops with some cosmetics items are ok. And yes there should be rare items in game. Those rare items do not have to be in the cash shop and most likely will not be. Just the items in the cash shop are going to be in game. So you will still have rare drops. I am pretty sure the cash shops will not have everything in game just some good skins of which you will only like some of them.
So personally it is just a choice. If you are low on cash well then you have the option to grind it. If you like grinding for items then you will be able to do that. If you have the cash then you have the option to buy that item.
I have read two very good points though.
1. Well cash shops can make millions so devs could in fact cater to the cash shop more than the actual game. That is devs getting greedy
2. Well cash shops can make millions so devs could in fact make in game items lame and cash shop items legenary in appearance. But looks like that is not going to happen cause Every item in the shop will be in game. That does not mean every item in game will be in the cash shop. You will still have rare drops. But they could get greedy.
If there is a reasonable and sizable push back against micro transactions, this system will be out the door.
Lets be honest, Steven has made his millions. He comes off as a guy that is relatively comfortable with where he is and what he has in life (except for a decent MMO). Steven doesn't strike me as a greedy guy out to milk every nickle he can from this project. If enough of the community voices opposition to micro transactions, I think Steven will hear it and listen. The longer this thread grows and stays on the first page of most recent activity, the more it will hold in the back of the dev's minds as they continue building Ashes of Creation.
Source at 50:10Will not gut cosmetics in game to incentivize and monetize the Cash Shop
imo that makes those two points invalid, unless you do not trust the devs
And then it's not something argueable as it comes down to personal opinion
Also, on point 2, not every item in Cash Shop will be in game
Super Generous Dungeon Loot Table
1. By my count gear slots should be about at least 10 (that is armour plus weapon but could be easily more).Let us go with 10
2. And IF you have personal loot table(you get items four your class that no one else can roll on)
3.And IF you only have ten items on your loot table for that Dungoeun(armour plus weapon) making selection chance 10%
Well it could take you 10 tries to get your item. If you get the same item dropping and you are unlucky 15 tries. So if you are doing a weekly dungeoun that is that is 10 to 15 weeks But just to be fair let us say it drops in the middle of grind that is 5 to 8 weeks (have to round up no half tries) or 1 to 2 months
to get the item you want.
But let say
1. other players can roll on that item players that are the same class as you
2. you have 15 gear slots hence 15 items to choose from
3. you have miscellaneous items as drops 3(pets, monster coins, crafting material) now 18 items so 1 out 18 chance now
4. you do not have a personal loot.( you are a mage and the drop is plate gear for a warior.) That is 15 times number of types of gear in game (cloth, leather mail, plate, ) I am just going to forget about certain stats for certain classes, Like intelligence on plate gear for holy pally. 15 times 4 is 60.That is 60 items on one loot table. plus miscellaneous items 3. That brings the drop chance 1 out of 63 or less than 2 percent.
5. Plus drops can repeat and you can get unlucky.
Well at point 4 we are already at 1 out 63 If it is a weekly dungeoun then well it could take one year 2 months and 3 weeks. to get your item.
This two examples are real simple just to give you an idea how it works. So yeah depending on how the loot system is set up and how big the loot tables are an item could take 6 months to grind it out. Welcome to RNG.
.
If the devs get greedy not just in the cash shop they will lose money in the long run.
It is called an unethical business model. No way to tell weather Steve has good business ethics or not. Do not know were you are going with the trust thing. Steve does not trust me and I do not trust him. Members of a seal team have to trust each other, but if you have 2 people that do not know each other there is no trust.
Plus my statement is not outrageous cause the are lots of other mmorpgs that are doing it, so it is a legitament concern.
How does this pertain to micro transactions?
Are you still trying to make the case that micro transactions should be used to reduce the amount of dungeon runs needed to obtain the gear you want?
Not sure many here including myself, understand what you are talking about and how it adds to the conversation specificly about micro transactions.
Sorry about the confusion.
From the info that we have so far from Steven it does not seem that any of the cosmetics that can be obtained in the game world will be in the cash shop. There will be some cosmetics that are similar or on "par" in the cash shop, with those that are obtained in the world, but there will be difference between the two.
I can't see IS having the same or near same item in both the cash shop and in the game world. It would make it too easy for players to attach a real world $$ amount to the item / time spent in the game world. Doing this breaks down some of the deception and manipulation that micro transaction systems use to push players to spend more real money. Such as time exclusive / rarity items.
Breaking down the illusions and misdirection of the cash shop would result in less sales and thus less revenue. Not that I want a cash shop, but if there is one, I couldn't see it being implemented like it has be speculated with same items obtainable both in game and in the cash shop.
will someone buy his couch already?? he'll need the money for the cash shop.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/video-games-loot-boxes-1.4373079
This quote from the article stuck out to me. Could very easily apply to cosmetics, of course to a lesser degree than loot boxes.
"If you add loot boxes, you're gonna have to adjust the game's economy, and the game's design, to make those interesting. Which means that you're effectively designing a game for things that aren't in it — unless you pay," he said.
Might be a sign if these issues are being brought to the attention of rating boards and governments from multiple countries.
Stopped watching these guys some time ago due to botched game reviews. Will have to wait and see if they are getting their act together.
Loot boxes are very different from the concept of a cash shop though. I will play Ashes with a cash shop full of cosmetics. I will never play Ashes if they introduce loot boxes – even if they only contain cosmetic items.
It is a principled stance that will prevent me from playing an otherwise awesome game, because that is the stance I have chosen. I find loot boxes to be THE most disgusting aspect of modern gaming.
IGN makes a anti microtransaction video, yet they rate Shadow of War as "9.0, Amazing!".
7.8, too much water,
Unless you lack good money management skills, then it's bad. >.>
I personally would pay 60$ + montly fee, than having microtransactions in the game.
As someone said previously in the thread, anything added too a cash shop ingame is content lost from the base game.
And lets say you play the game for a year, two or maybe more. Paying a box fee and whereas everything can be obtained ingame would be far cheaper long term than buying the "cool" skins from a cash shop, as how else would they get players too buy the cosmetics from the shop? it has to be "cooler", "flashier" and "fancier" too be worth you're hard earned cash.
Tho this is only my opinion on the subject.
Also Edit: a Box fee would also prevent future bot abuse that every MMO are struck by. With current release plan it would cost a boter 15$ to set up his bot.
While with a box fee this price would be far greater and therefore a lot less worth the risk.
-Kikke
But with that said, I've never been a fan of the practice. I don't like for a game to offer anything which detracts from actually playing the game. Why grind a crafter to make armor, or go kill a Boss to earn armor, when I can just buy it and call it a day?
I'm also of the mind of: let people play the way they want, and I get that some folks enjoy the "easier" way of obtaining stuff by just out-right buying it. But I think the detraction from actually keeping people playing the game out-weighs catering to the folks that just want to buy their stuff.
I'd prefer to enjoy a completely free (except sub) game with everything achievable by hard work and not locked by a pay wall, but if costumes are cheap I don't mind to change my look every few months for a few bucks at a time.
Ultimately if the game is not B2P and has only a cosmetic cash shop then it saves me a lot of money as I refuse to support all cash shops. I just voice my concern over the expanding payment model at every opportunity because it continues to expand.