Just whatever you do AoC, don't be like EA, the fan's are not happy with what they are trying to do, and milk the market through micro-transactions. Then again IS already said no P2W so we should be solid.
Honestly, I don't mind as long as it's just cosmetics. I would be probably in favor of it since devs would get some extra money from less than 5% of players (I probably overshot it big time). To me it's more acceptable than having to pay $50 for new content every year.
I am okay with cosmetics if we have more variety of in-game costumes than cash shop ones and in-game ones are regularly updated. I don't remember what they said about dyes but I hope they are obtainable in-game with the option to buy them from the cash shop and they are permanent and not one time use.
I'm sorry I don't see how cosmetics as content, If you want a certain look or something that is not offered in ashes in game but offered in the cash shop, that's considered a premium service and just like the rest of the world you have the option to pay for a premium service.
Its not considered content since its not part of the game and doesn't influence your stats or lore, or increase your character. The only thing it does is it might make you stand out a bit. Its not content is a premium cosmetic option, so in my opinion Intrepid is fine to charge whatever the seem fit for such items.
Anyways its way to early in development for anyone to really bash the cash shop since we have no idea what will be in it. They have already stated No pay to win items will be in the game. So if they have cool appearance items I don't see why not charge a little extra, that goes back to intrepid.
I'm sorry I don't see how cosmetics as content, If you want a certain look or something that is not offered in ashes in game but offered in the cash shop, that's considered a premium service and just like the rest of the world you have the option to pay for a premium service.
Its not considered content since its not part of the game and doesn't influence your stats or lore, or increase your character. The only thing it does is it might make you stand out a bit. Its not content is a premium cosmetic option, so in my opinion Intrepid is fine to charge whatever the seem fit for such items.
Anyways its way to early in development for anyone to really bash the cash shop since we have no idea what will be in it. They have already stated No pay to win items will be in the game. So if they have cool appearance items I don't see why not charge a little extra, that goes back to intrepid.
Cosmetics as content... I would refer you to BDO, where ingame equipment is diminished / suppressed by intentional design to pressure players towards $20-$30 cosmetics. This I would argue, is by definition, content that was removed from the game and placed behind a paywall.
Will AoC take the same road as BDO? Who knows, however there is a lot of questionable verbage coming from Steven about the CS and cosmetics. One need not look any further than the KS and Summer crowd funding to make an eye start twitching.
Its a lengthy read in some places but this theme has been discussed a lot during the course of this thread. I would recommend you broaden your understanding.
"Its not content is a premium cosmetic option, so in my opinion Intrepid is fine to charge whatever the seem fit for such items. "
Your opinion and you are entitled to it. This way of thinking is literally destroying the games industry from what it used to be and ducking over the vast majority of gamers. Despite the many holes in your post, you might be ok with accepting micro transactions. I for one am not.
Well the cash shop could sell a lot of simple looking items and still make a lot of money. And sometimes Extremely good artists get hired lets say make an armour set that you could buy that otherwise would not be in game.
One more point I would like to add is that if there is a legendary looking item. Well it would not be a common drop in game most likely a very rare drop which is what every one wants so that if you have it you feel special that one you have one and two very few players would have one.
Point and case No cash shop means you will likely never get that legendary looking item cause drop chance is too low of course there would be exceptions like quests and achievments and bought through in game currency other than gold.
You guys are saying we are paying for the game already we should GET those items in game, Truth is you would probably never get those items in game cause they are to rare so.....
Plus the cash shop is a good way to support the game if you want. Could be looked at as a donation in which you get something in return. But the truth is that there are so many millions to make through a cash shop we are getting one.
Lastly I would like to add that cash shops do not make money off players that spend hundreds of dollars on it. More like half the player base will buy one item from the cash shop ounce a year for 10 dollars and if you have a one million player base then that is 5 million a year.
"Make MMOs great again"The great MMOs did not have cash shops.... There is an obvious conflict of interest. There is a definitive compromise between engaging game content and profit generating assets.
Before it's repeated for the umpteenth time. I personally Trust* Intrepid to deliver on their base product. But I do not Respect* them for sacrificing the integrity of their game for current industry standard trends in income generation, however I cannot blame them for doing so, I just wish it wasn't a perceived necessity.
having participated and observed the crowd funding assets* it's a tell tale sign of things to come regarding the cash shop. I think the RP'rs are the most impacted by having cosmetics* behind a paywall.
I will not be supporting the cash shop, that is just my personal stance. If i want to further support the game development, other than subscribing or actively playing and attracting more players to subscribe too, then I'll purchase physical merchandise.
Perhaps intrepid can set up or collaborate with 3d printing to allow production of an in game character model miniature (a physical micro transaction if you will). You can have that suggestion for free intrepid, however the next suggestion will cost a small cosmetic fee.
(best valley girl) But this one is soooo 2010 when micro transactions started becoming mainstream. (/best valley girl)
Its 2017 now, 2019-2020 on game launch and a lot of us are tired of seeing this shit in all of our games.
This thread needs to be bumped and updated to stay on the first page of most recent activity until launch or it goes away. I personally want the cons of micro transactions rolling around in the back of every mind working at IS, every second of everyday.
Perhaps intrepid can set up or collaborate with 3d printing to allow production of an in game character model miniature (a physical micro transaction if you will). You can have that suggestion for free intrepid, however the next suggestion will cost a small cosmetic fee.
I'm sorry I don't see how cosmetics as content, If you want a certain look or something that is not offered in ashes in game but offered in the cash shop, that's considered a premium service and just like the rest of the world you have the option to pay for a premium service.
Its not considered content since its not part of the game and doesn't influence your stats or lore, or increase your character. The only thing it does is it might make you stand out a bit. Its not content is a premium cosmetic option, so in my opinion Intrepid is fine to charge whatever the seem fit for such items.
Anyways its way to early in development for anyone to really bash the cash shop since we have no idea what will be in it. They have already stated No pay to win items will be in the game. So if they have cool appearance items I don't see why not charge a little extra, that goes back to intrepid.
I agree, 1000%! Cosmetics aren't content at all and are somewhat of a cop out to not flesh the game out more. I prefer the way CoE are handling outfits. Having a tailoring profession to actually edit the garment and such, instead of making us pay $15 to change the color etc.
Well EA have just announced that their microtransactions for Star Wars Battlefront 2 have been temporarily removed. After the kerfuffle over the most downrated reddit comment in history, and the issue actually making it to mainstream news due to this, it is a very surprising move.
I have no doubt they will creep back in once everything simmers down after launch.
Well EA have just announced that their microtransactions for Star Wars Battlefront 2 have been temporarily removed. After the kerfuffle over the most downrated reddit comment in history, and the issue actually making it to mainstream news due to this, it is a very surprising move.
I have no doubt they will creep back in once everything simmers down after launch.
It will still take people 4100 hours to unlock all of the "content" in that game, or, $2100. If you can't be bothered. But they will slither back into place as you said, once people forget that EA is, and always has been, a gold digger in the gaming industry.
This is why those micro transactions got removed. The Belgian gambling commission is investigating them over loot box gambling. Could be a good start, might get the ball rolling.
I see nothing wrong with having Cosmetics Options in store as long as all it effects is appearance no stat values, with the following conditions.
Developer ends up spending all resources to just keep making cosmetic items and not develop actual game play. Example SWTOR which basically became a MMORPG barbie and ken dress up game.
Have only the cool looking stuff available only through the store, once again like SWTOR majority of cool stuff was through store and the stuff gotten trhough loot quests or crafting were mostly sub par.
Long time Epic items should look the best and it would be nice if the appearance got better as you progressed your epic gear.
Crafted items that require high skill should have a great look.
Looted items at low level should look sub par and progress in cosmetic quality as the loot level goes up.
End of the day it comes to you should be able to get great looking gear outside of the store through normal means within the game. Having unique look items in store is fine so long as they are the only gear that looks cool.
What are the Developers doing with the money earned. Let's face it people make games to make money, the question is will they be too greedy. Will they use some of the money earned through the cash shop to help further develop game content that is based on game mechanics not just appearance. Once again EA / SWTOR would just keep pumping out cosmetics but refused to work on the things players actually wanted. Instead of spending money to help make the game better they just kept pumping out superficial cosmetic gear. Now if AOC ends up using some of the money to actually improve the game this wouldn't not be such a bad thing. So long as they do not get to greedy with it.
Especially with subscription being paid some people may feel that a cosmetic shop is a bit much but as they are just cosmetic they are not needed to progress in the game.
The biggest concern I have with the store is the fact I heard mounts were going to be sold in the game store. Now if these mounts have stats that effect the game play such as speed, atk, deff skill, and such I think this is a no go and falls into bought advantage an is PTW. I sincerely hope this will not be the case cause as a subscription game this is a no no. Having cosmetic skin for mounts in store I can live with but things you get for mounts should not effect any stats.
If AOC holds to it's integrity and follows though with it's goals it has a potential of making a lot of money especially if they stick to the no PTW format which so many people are tired of. IF they do micro transactions for cosmetics that is not too greedy and is balanced following some of the condition I listed above I think most people would be fine with that. If they hold true to being a company with integrity then as more people play and spread the word it has the potential of making a lot of money just through subscriptions let alone Micro transactions. If they stick to the no PTW and do not go crazy with Micros they will keep pulling people away from the games like SWTOR where companies like EA are too stubborn and will be slow to stop their greed tactics till they lose too many players. It's in AOC best interest to actually follow through with integrity cause it will lead to its success so long as the game is fun to play.
If how ever they end up getting too greedy, which I hope and do not think will happen, it will instead turn out like most games these days where people will get fed up and move on.
Let's hope for the best and ultimately only time will tell.
Yeah, how dare they make my mount skins have replayability and value. What kind of scam is this that I will be able to reuse the skin over and over to change the cosmetic appearance of my mount. I would rather that they sold me some level 10 mount that I use for a couple hours and then never use again because I have out-leveled it. Since taming and breeding for higher level mounts and pets with increased stats, hit points, and carrying capacity will be a thing, who are they fooling by letting me apply my Obsidian Stallion skin to ever increasing mounts of level and power. The outrage!! <sarcasm off>
I'm okay with spending extra for cosmetic stuff, but I can understand when people aren't. Honestly I think it just comes down to how outfits you can get in-game look vs. outfits you have to pay real money for. If they put all their effort into the cash shop ones while the in-game only ones look fugly as heck (or worse, there are no cosmetic outfits available purely through gameplay and we have to rely on the appearance of whatever the best gear we have is, regardless of if they suit our character's aesthetic or even match in the first place) then I'll definitely have a problem with it. But if they equally look nice, then I'll be fine with it. It's something we'll have to wait and see before we get to judge.
Also please god no dye lootboxes. Just let me get the dye in-game or at least buy the dyes themselves on the cash shop instead of having to spend 100+ [bleep]ing dollars to dye one [bleep]ing outfit nicely.
Yeah, how dare they make my mount skins have replayability and value. What kind of scam is this that I will be able to reuse the skin over and over to change the cosmetic appearance of my mount. I would rather that they sold me some level 10 mount that I use for a couple hours and then never use again because I have out-leveled it. Since taming and breeding for higher level mounts and pets with increased stats, hit points, and carrying capacity will be a thing, who are they fooling by letting me apply my Obsidian Stallion skin to ever increasing mounts of level and power. The outrage!! <sarcasm off>
I think you might have assumed my comment out of context, I was clarifying for @Dorje in regards to how mounts are being cosmetically* manipulated for profit generation.
I question the notion of replay-ability* (pay-ability perhaps), and value* is yet to be determined....
I'd much prefer the Skins* be living in game entities adding to dynamic world vibrancy rather than amputated out of the game for profit...but that's me.
The only clarification or perhaps change of stance is that ALL cash shop content be viably obtainable via in game currency methods.
Well Steve said on one video how he bought 300 loot boxes to get one item I think a bear and how that bear went on sale on the cash shop a week later. So I am guessing there will be no loot boxes.
I think the cash shop will not be that bad since the company is being ran by a gamer that has played many MMORPGS.
On another point would like to add that the chance of you liking every item in the cash enough to buy is low. Even if they were all in game you would not grind all of them cause some of them would not be worth it. So most people would just buy a few cash items over the course of one year not a big deal and if you think that is to much money maybe you should go and play a free to play mmorpg so it will fit in your tight budget.
On another point would like to add that the chance of you liking every item in the cash enough to buy is low. Even if they were all in game you would not grind all of them cause some of them would not be worth it. So most people would just buy a few cash items over the course of one year not a big deal and if you think that is to much money maybe you should go and play a free to play mmorpg so it will fit in your tight budget.
So once again @Consultant your answer is to throw money at it. Where is the risk vs reward in buying items for $$? No different than if I said you should go and change your career in RL so it will fit in your time schedule to actually play the game.
Your way of thinking has brought us micro transactions to start with.
So once again @Consultant your answer is to throw money at it. Where is the risk vs reward in buying items for $$? No different than if I said you should go and change your career in RL so it will fit in your time schedule to actually play the game.
Your way of thinking has brought us micro transactions to start with.
I do not think a few items a year is throwing money at it. Throwing money at it means just spend a lot of money to solve problem. 45 us currency for a few items is not a lot of money comes out to less than one dallor a week so.....
Risk vs Reward? Well um I have grinded items in other MMORPGs and well ther is no risk just mostly a grind to get that item. And depending on the drop rate it could be years before you get if at all.
If that item is part of the top tier content loot table then it would be risk vs reward. Unless AoC has really smart game mechanics that make almost all content in game risky (challenging) but since they are going to have levels they would have to implement quite a smart scaling system to do that.
Just as a reminder if those Items were put in game you would probably not have one cause of rarity so it comes out to NO Risk and NO Reward unless you get lucky or the item is in a quest line or bought through some in game currency.
1 percent drop rate which some say is high for legendaries. Makes this statement 99 percent true. (1%= about 163 runs to get item for sure IF you do have to compete with another player in game)
No Cash Shop means you will never get that item.(99%true)
You guys talk about getting the item in game truth is you will likely never get it in game no matter how much risk you take. It is just a grind. I am pretty sure after 50 times of doing a certain content the risk factor is diminished just by you getting better gear not to mention you will mostly likely be a pro at it by the fiftieth time might even become a bit boring.
Someone explain to me what is so lovely about grinding which equals having those items in game. Remember there will be most likely no risk and very little chance of reward but you will feel good IF it finally drops. Sounds like a loot box.
Finish this statement. Grinding for gear (163 runs or more) is fun because.......(cause you feel good when it drops Really?) I think after the first year of grinding an item you will be wishing you could buy that item in the cash shop.
And yes I realize there should be very rare items in MMORPGS not going for that I want everything now thing just going for the "oh look cool item in cash glad I can buy it cause I am already grinding out a bunch of other things in game."
You will still have more grinds than you care to have. You literally will not have enough time in a day to do all your grinds even if you played for 24 hours. You will still have many many many risk/rewards oppurtinities.Cash Shops do not make that go away.
Cash Shops will not be taking away your beloved grinds away.
No Cash Shop means you will never get that item.(99%true)
.....ummm no, speaking from 19 years of experience in various mmos, this is a false statement. If we are going to converse please try to be at least somewhat truthful. In the majority of occasions there always be elusive items where RNG does not favor you.
However if you take away the "grind" as you put it, then whats left? Everyone has everything and rarity will have no significant meaning.
Tack on to that a cash shop and then you have a situation where everyone has everything, rarity will have no significant meaning, and everyone will have less real $$.
Makes the game worse... not better. Your posts give the impression you feel entitled to be able to obtain everything you want with little to no effort.
Your post here is just a complete rehash of one of your earlier posts, which were largely discounted on my part for incomplete thoughts, self contradictions, ranting over RNG which lead to some very wild speculations and repeating the same nonsense repeatedly.
@Consultant you are implicating RNG as a resolute system to validate a cash shop's wares and suggesting that the cosmetic content it provides would never* be obtainable via conventional in game methods, and that the cash shop alleviates RNG grind....poppycock.
I get the impression you are using WoW as your base line example metric. I quit WoW after they implemented the cash shop* so my WoW base line experience does not equate the cash shop existence. Because for me personally the cash shop in WoW ruined the game, so I quit among other reasons.
Now circumventing RNG is a bad system for a cash shop and is barely even a solution to a cash shop/CASINO based on RNG itself. This is a flawed core game issue not a cash shop issue, whether intentional or not. Paying to skip RNG is disgusting.
the only 'respectful' cash shop proportionally circumvents time* aka grind. So by isolating cosmetics* that had just as much potential to be part of the core game experience but are now 'sold separately batteries not included' So now you can work/grind, earn currency in either of your preferred RL/ingame environments and occupations and achieve your goal/outcome based on your amount of commitment wherever that may be.
What is lost with the (cosmetic only cash shop) is the potential for Story, lore, adventure, gathering , recipes, crafting and socioeconomic game interactions. The risk is that the instant gratification will lead to a collapse in game play longevity.
With that the player base migrates to the next flavour of the month game, populations die out, servers merge, less subscribers so more cash shop reliance and inevitably another dead MMO with a diehard fan base clutching their digital cosmetic items in denial.
P2P with cosmetic shop is good compromise. Let me explain why.
1. F2P games with P2W cash shop allow for large (but mostly unhappy) player population. Game is free and many players can play, but cash shop with P2W items ruins the game play in large degree.
2. P2P games with no cash shop at all but large subscription fee would allow for awesome and balanced game play, but would end up in much smaller population because many players would not be able to afford large subscription fee, which in end would again not be good for servers health.
3. P2P games with cosmetic cash shop, and smaller subscription fee are good compromise because they still allow large enough player populations, and cash shop doesn't have P2W items that would ruin the game play.
I am personally very happy that Ashes will be the third option I listed.
Was just about to post something similar but I am weeks late lol.
Let's not forget that there is going to be an Asia/OCE server and any price difference between a P2P with no cash shop vs a P2P with cosmetic only cash shop will be felt in some Asian countries. Yes, $5 will be felt.
Certainly if the monthly fee is high enough, I won't play it. But if they could bring that monthly fee down to a range I am comfortable with the help of a cosmetic cash shop, then I am all in favor. I see it as being able to play without having the looks that won't affect gameplay vs not playing at all.
The same way they would lose players who don't agree with their model, IS will lose players if it's too expensive or the game is not worth it.
And I feel there should be a difference between a cosmetic only cash shop and a P2W cash shop and should not be ignored in these discussions. We can't just bunch them all up together. Any item that offers time, convenience or even pseudo P2W advantages should not be in a cosmetic only cash shop. If they can commit to that, I'm fine with it.
Perhaps it will help if there's a review system before they introduce an item in the shop where the community can determine if the item will have any P2W effects at all.
I get the impression you are using WoW as your base line example metric. I quit WoW after they implemented the cash shop* so my WoW base line experience does not equate the cash shop existence. Because for me personally the cash shop in WoW ruined the game, so I quit among other reasons.
Just as an off-topic curiosity question: what items sold in the shop in WoW made you quit? Or was it not the content, but just its existence?
I never thought the WoW shop had any real impact on anyone, so more than a little curious.
Comments
Tfw -679k points on your reply so you give yourself reddit gold on alts to look "good". But I hardly think the Team here is as **** as EA, come on.
I don't remember what they said about dyes but I hope they are obtainable in-game with the option to buy them from the cash shop and they are permanent and not one time use.
Its not considered content since its not part of the game and doesn't influence your stats or lore, or increase your character. The only thing it does is it might make you stand out a bit. Its not content is a premium cosmetic option, so in my opinion Intrepid is fine to charge whatever the seem fit for such items.
Anyways its way to early in development for anyone to really bash the cash shop since we have no idea what will be in it. They have already stated No pay to win items will be in the game. So if they have cool appearance items I don't see why not charge a little extra, that goes back to intrepid.
Will AoC take the same road as BDO? Who knows, however there is a lot of questionable verbage coming from Steven about the CS and cosmetics. One need not look any further than the KS and Summer crowd funding to make an eye start twitching.
Its a lengthy read in some places but this theme has been discussed a lot during the course of this thread. I would recommend you broaden your understanding.
"Its not content is a premium cosmetic option, so in my opinion Intrepid is fine to charge whatever the seem fit for such items. "
Your opinion and you are entitled to it. This way of thinking is literally destroying the games industry from what it used to be and ducking over the vast majority of gamers. Despite the many holes in your post, you might be ok with accepting micro transactions. I for one am not.
And sometimes Extremely good artists get hired lets say make an armour set that you could buy that otherwise would not be in game.
One more point I would like to add is that if there is a legendary looking item. Well it would not be a common drop in game most likely a very rare drop which is what every one wants so that if you have it you feel special that one you have one and two very few players would have one.
Point and case No cash shop means you will likely never get that legendary looking item cause drop chance is too low of course there would be exceptions like quests and achievments and bought through in game currency other than gold.
You guys are saying we are paying for the game already we should GET those items in game, Truth is you would probably never get those items in game cause they are to rare so.....
Plus the cash shop is a good way to support the game if you want. Could be looked at as a donation in which you get something in return. But the truth is that there are so many millions to make through a cash shop we are getting one.
Lastly I would like to add that cash shops do not make money off players that spend hundreds of dollars on it. More like half the player base will buy one item from the cash shop ounce a year for 10 dollars and if you have a one million player base then that is 5 million a year.
There is an obvious conflict of interest.
There is a definitive compromise between engaging game content and profit generating assets.
Before it's repeated for the umpteenth time.
I personally Trust* Intrepid to deliver on their base product.
But I do not Respect* them for sacrificing the integrity of their game for current industry standard trends in income generation,
however I cannot blame them for doing so, I just wish it wasn't a perceived necessity.
having participated and observed the crowd funding assets* it's a tell tale sign of things to come regarding the cash shop. I think the RP'rs are the most impacted by having cosmetics* behind a paywall.
I will not be supporting the cash shop, that is just my personal stance.
If i want to further support the game development, other than subscribing or actively playing and attracting more players to subscribe too, then I'll purchase physical merchandise.
Perhaps intrepid can set up or collaborate with 3d printing to allow production of an in game character model miniature (a physical micro transaction if you will). You can have that suggestion for free intrepid, however the next suggestion will cost a small cosmetic fee.
(best valley girl) But this one is soooo 2010 when micro transactions started becoming mainstream. (/best valley girl)
Its 2017 now, 2019-2020 on game launch and a lot of us are tired of seeing this shit in all of our games.
This thread needs to be bumped and updated to stay on the first page of most recent activity until launch or it goes away. I personally want the cons of micro transactions rolling around in the back of every mind working at IS, every second of everyday.
...provided that cash shop takes a hike.
I have no doubt they will creep back in once everything simmers down after launch.
This is why those micro transactions got removed. The Belgian gambling commission is investigating them over loot box gambling. Could be a good start, might get the ball rolling.
Jim Sterling piping in on it as well.
Maybe today on the Live Stream he might.
End of the day it comes to you should be able to get great looking gear outside of the store through normal means within the game. Having unique look items in store is fine so long as they are the only gear that looks cool.
What are the Developers doing with the money earned. Let's face it people make games to make money, the question is will they be too greedy. Will they use some of the money earned through the cash shop to help further develop game content that is based on game mechanics not just appearance. Once again EA / SWTOR would just keep pumping out cosmetics but refused to work on the things players actually wanted. Instead of spending money to help make the game better they just kept pumping out superficial cosmetic gear. Now if AOC ends up using some of the money to actually improve the game this wouldn't not be such a bad thing. So long as they do not get to greedy with it.
Especially with subscription being paid some people may feel that a cosmetic shop is a bit much but as they are just cosmetic they are not needed to progress in the game.
The biggest concern I have with the store is the fact I heard mounts were going to be sold in the game store. Now if these mounts have stats that effect the game play such as speed, atk, deff skill, and such I think this is a no go and falls into bought advantage an is PTW. I sincerely hope this will not be the case cause as a subscription game this is a no no. Having cosmetic skin for mounts in store I can live with but things you get for mounts should not effect any stats.
If AOC holds to it's integrity and follows though with it's goals it has a potential of making a lot of money especially if they stick to the no PTW format which so many people are tired of. IF they do micro transactions for cosmetics that is not too greedy and is balanced following some of the condition I listed above I think most people would be fine with that. If they hold true to being a company with integrity then as more people play and spread the word it has the potential of making a lot of money just through subscriptions let alone Micro transactions. If they stick to the no PTW and do not go crazy with Micros they will keep pulling people away from the games like SWTOR where companies like EA are too stubborn and will be slow to stop their greed tactics till they lose too many players. It's in AOC best interest to actually follow through with integrity cause it will lead to its success so long as the game is fun to play.
If how ever they end up getting too greedy, which I hope and do not think will happen, it will instead turn out like most games these days where people will get fed up and move on.
Let's hope for the best and ultimately only time will tell.
Hard to justify 'integrity' and cash shop in the same sentence.
<sarcasm off>
Also please god no dye lootboxes. Just let me get the dye in-game or at least buy the dyes themselves on the cash shop instead of having to spend 100+ [bleep]ing dollars to dye one [bleep]ing outfit nicely.
I question the notion of replay-ability* (pay-ability perhaps), and value* is yet to be determined....
I'd much prefer the Skins* be living in game entities adding to dynamic world vibrancy rather than amputated out of the game for profit...but that's me.
The only clarification or perhaps change of stance is that ALL cash shop content be viably obtainable via in game currency methods.
Pretty Good Gaming
Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/11/22/from-belgium-to-hawaii-potential-battlefront-2-loot-box-legislation-would-be-complicated/#397bca997cbc
and of course Jim Sterling's take
I think the cash shop will not be that bad since the company is being ran by a gamer that has played many MMORPGS.
On another point would like to add that the chance of you liking every item in the cash enough to buy is low. Even if they were all in game you would not grind all of them cause some of them would not be worth it. So most people would just buy a few cash items over the course of one year not a big deal and if you think that is to much money maybe you should go and play a free to play mmorpg so it will fit in your tight budget.
Your way of thinking has brought us micro transactions to start with.
However if you take away the "grind" as you put it, then whats left? Everyone has everything and rarity will have no significant meaning.
Tack on to that a cash shop and then you have a situation where everyone has everything, rarity will have no significant meaning, and everyone will have less real $$.
Makes the game worse... not better. Your posts give the impression you feel entitled to be able to obtain everything you want with little to no effort.
Your post here is just a complete rehash of one of your earlier posts, which were largely discounted on my part for incomplete thoughts, self contradictions, ranting over RNG which lead to some very wild speculations and repeating the same nonsense repeatedly.
I get the impression you are using WoW as your base line example metric.
I quit WoW after they implemented the cash shop* so my WoW base line experience does not equate the cash shop existence. Because for me personally the cash shop in WoW ruined the game, so I quit among other reasons.
Now circumventing RNG is a bad system for a cash shop and is barely even a solution to a cash shop/CASINO based on RNG itself. This is a flawed core game issue not a cash shop issue, whether intentional or not. Paying to skip RNG is disgusting.
the only 'respectful' cash shop proportionally circumvents time* aka grind. So by isolating cosmetics* that had just as much potential to be part of the core game experience but are now 'sold separately batteries not included'
So now you can work/grind, earn currency in either of your preferred RL/ingame environments and occupations and achieve your goal/outcome based on your amount of commitment wherever that may be.
What is lost with the (cosmetic only cash shop) is the potential for Story, lore, adventure, gathering , recipes, crafting and socioeconomic game interactions.
The risk is that the instant gratification will lead to a collapse in game play longevity.
With that the player base migrates to the next flavour of the month game, populations die out, servers merge, less subscribers so more cash shop reliance and inevitably another dead MMO with a diehard fan base clutching their digital cosmetic items in denial.
Let's not forget that there is going to be an Asia/OCE server and any price difference between a P2P with no cash shop vs a P2P with cosmetic only cash shop will be felt in some Asian countries. Yes, $5 will be felt.
Certainly if the monthly fee is high enough, I won't play it. But if they could bring that monthly fee down to a range I am comfortable with the help of a cosmetic cash shop, then I am all in favor. I see it as being able to play without having the looks that won't affect gameplay vs not playing at all.
The same way they would lose players who don't agree with their model, IS will lose players if it's too expensive or the game is not worth it.
And I feel there should be a difference between a cosmetic only cash shop and a P2W cash shop and should not be ignored in these discussions. We can't just bunch them all up together. Any item that offers time, convenience or even pseudo P2W advantages should not be in a cosmetic only cash shop. If they can commit to that, I'm fine with it.
Perhaps it will help if there's a review system before they introduce an item in the shop where the community can determine if the item will have any P2W effects at all.
I never thought the WoW shop had any real impact on anyone, so more than a little curious.