Pretty sure WoW had peak 12 million subs before it introduced a cash shop i think the sub rate is half of that now, don't know cos WoW stopped posting official numbers...
ESO was launched as a box buy subscription model and went f2p in about a year...so great example there. The game was not polished enough at launch to commend a sub fee.
FF14 is more appreciated in eastern markets, I can't rate it as i have no interest in the game due to aesthetics..pretty sure they had to completely rebuild the whole game though.
Cash shops are not priced for majority of wallet owners they are dialed in to the 10% of players who buy anything without abandon "whales" and at those prices segments of "paying supporters" get pushed out and disenfranchised. split*
have/have not simple.
"I want to support the game but i expect something in return" is such a self entitled sentiment.
If you really want to donate* to support* Intrepid send them a cheque.
Can't you buy an instantly maxed out character too? But yeah, ESO was a terrible MMO. It should've been buy to play from the start.
I am pretty solidly in the camp of no cash shop at all. I
think microtransactions are an excellent idea for F2P games, but they should
ONLY EVER be a part of F2P games.
If the game is successful and has a lot of subs then they
will be making more than enough money to employ everyone and make a tidy profit
(based on my awesome [nil] knowledge of economics and business development).
Steven is already rich, I don’t think this is his big money-making scheme.
There are hundreds of easier ways to make money than to make an MMO! This is
why it is a little odd to add in a cash shop as well as a sub.
I echo the concerns of people who question the direction and
the destination of the money made from the cash shop. Will it simply get pumped
back into more cash shop items, so the cash shop expands and expands, or will
it be pumped back into the game itself so we can have more actual content?
We
have already seen a number of companies change the fundamental gameplay and
progression of their games to suit the inclusion of the cash shop and loot
boxes. I know these companies are well known for their shady practices but
people are right to be sceptical and a little fearful of the lure of those
dollars corrupting someone with even the best of intentions.
I really do hate cashshops, but i guess there is a need for more spending nowadays. If games do go cashshops i usually hope they go the.. well... for example Final Fantasy XIV cashshop... or the Elder Scrolls Online (minus the RNG lootboxes they have now)).. those are reasonable. Unlike sadly alot of both older as well as upcoming MMO's
I hope there is nothing but cosmetic items, including mount SKINS(not actual mounts). My big issue with mmo cosmetic shops tho is they are always stupidly expensive.
League of legends is a fantastic example to follow as far as cosmetic cash shops go. League was entirely funded by champion skins for years. Sure some of the skins cost 20-30$ but those are only for very high end ones. The skins that don't really add any particle effects or really change the look of abilities are very cheap(5$ range). If riot was able to literally fund a game for years off of reasonably priced cosmetics, I don't see why an mmo with a subscription can't too.
If they are putting in huge amounts of time for a cosmetic or mount skin, fine, charge me a butt load of money, but once a recolored armor set that took 2 minutes to change from the base costs 30$ I will never spend a dime on the cash shop.
Based on their prices in the shop already, this outlandish pricing model seems to be the direction they are going tho, so unless something changes by launch they will never get any of my money for cosmetics.
I really do hate cashshops, but i guess there is a need for more spending nowadays. If games do go cashshops i usually hope they go the.. well... for example Final Fantasy XIV cashshop... or the Elder Scrolls Online (minus the RNG lootboxes they have now)).. those are reasonable. Unlike sadly alot of both older as well as upcoming MMO's
Contrary There is no need for it. What we NEED are companies that set examples, that are successful without cash shops and micro transactions.
Companies that are not driven by share holders and corporate laws, cause then its kinda out of the developers hands and gives power to the majority shares and voice of the company where their ONE goal is to make money.
It's why with a indie companies like IS and VR, the hope is that they would refrain from using cash shops and shine a beacon of light in the gaming industry. If the product is good and they maintain with integrity that people would flock to these dependent companies. with very large potential gain in the sheer volume of subscriptions. As well as paid expansions.
Then it would fall to us to support these companies and refrain from spending money on companies like EA, Ubi, Capcom, etc. Cause at the end of the day the blame and responsibility is to the player base. If players complain about greed and continue to support those companies then of course they will not stop.
My primary HOPE is that IS would remove the cash shop. But in the likely event they do not, that they do it in a ethical way. Where primary focus remains on the game itself and the cash shop secondary.
I have high hopes for AOC and majority of what Steven wants to put into it, would love to see it succeed, but I have strong reservations against the cash shop and Micro Transactions and rightfully so, due to the nature of Micro Transactions and how they have been used even in games that are not PTW.
I really do hate cashshops, but i guess there is a need for more spending nowadays. If games do go cashshops i usually hope they go the.. well... for example Final Fantasy XIV cashshop... or the Elder Scrolls Online (minus the RNG lootboxes they have now)).. those are reasonable. Unlike sadly alot of both older as well as upcoming MMO's
Contrary There is no need for it. What we NEED are companies that set examples, that are successful without cash shops and micro transactions.
Sadly I don't think it will be IS, they want to "Make MMO's Great Again" yet they're throwing a Cashshop into the game. Oh well.
Vortigern said: Sadly I don't think it will be IS, they want to "Make MMO's Great Again" yet they're throwing a Cashshop into the game. Oh well.
I wonder if your gameplay will suffer if you never once open the marketplace, probably not. A cosmetic cash shop isn't going to decide wether or not ashes is a great game.
It's fine if you don't want a cash shop, in some regards I agree with you, but give Intrepid the chance to change your mind. Wait until the game is released then decide wether or not it's all it promised.
catering to Cash Shop is more like restocking the cash shop. If you want to keep selling items you have to present new ones cause old ones have reached thier sales peak. (most of the people that will buy those items already have) Making new gear does not require a lot of effort and can be relatively cheap just look at some of the digital art already for sale at sites like deviantart.com. While making more content takes real time and money. So it is not like they are slacking on making content.
IS might plan to go free to play for reasons like building a player base other mmorpgs have gone free to play and have replenished their player base even kept them from dying so Intrepid is just putting themselves in the best possible position to succeed not exactly greedy (future is uncertain). mmorpgs make tons of money if they make a good game that many players want to play. The game has to be good on its own merit in the first place cash shop just helps out a lot.
There should not be a great disparity between in game items and items in the cash shop. Never the less if people are going to pay money for a cosmetic item it should look pretty good really no way around it.
As far as Greed is concerned it is not Cash Shop specific. Some devs make the game intentionally to grindy thinking they are smart. Basically forcing players to do certain grinds to have near optimal stats(not talking about rare items or legendaries). Other Devs make it so it takes an excessively amount of gold to just play forcing players to grind gold excessively. Time Sinks and Gold Sinks. There is a right way and wrong way to do it.
Guild of Wars is making a ton of cash and the expansion that it just came out is pretty good but they got Greedy with the cash shop which is just plain stupid. They have no idea how many players they just lost. I do not understand how the devs can think they are smarter than their entire player base. Solution is to run the cash shop better not get rid of it.
I said this before on this discussion IF they get greedy and decide to exploit the game in some fashion they will lose money in the long run cause players will notice but so far they have not done that. (Surprised they stopped the KS for example Star Citizen is at 160 million plus with their crowd funding)
Personally, I think that the more money IS makes the better. It is not naive to believe that the more money they make the better game will be. It is just the truth. Steve has made many many good decisions in my opinion in Ashes of Creation. In order for him to revalutionize this genre he will need huge amount of resources. Pretty sure he has huge dreams. Maybe they will have money for advertising and stuff.(said they did have millions to throw at advertising some sources say,think EA, says half the cost of a game is advertising)
Somebody mentioned League, and I think that's a good example to put out there.
I never feel pressured to buy skins, and tbh I almost never notice them anyways. However, whenever I see someone with an expensive skin, I usually give a little mental nod to them, like "I see you're a man of culture as well." Having skins can be prestigious without being oppressive, and having a diverse cash shop can lead to a positive game environment.
IS might plan to go free to play for reasons like building a player base other mmorpgs have gone free to play and have replenished their player base even kept them from dying so Intrepid is just putting themselves in the best possible position to succeed not exactly greedy (future is uncertain). mmorpgs make tons of money if they make a good game that many players want to play. The game has to be good on its own merit in the first place cash shop just helps out a lot. .....
OMG I hope not lol. If they ever go FTP I am out.
Consultant with comments like that, you are not helping your side of the debate, saying Cash Shops are ok.
I think you have good intentions and a positive out look on possibilities, but some of the things you say make people feel more cautious instead of at ease about having cash shops in the game.
One of the main reasons a lot of people are excited about this game is that it is not FTP.
So your saying a f2p/cash shop is acceptable if not better than a subscription only MMO....
Good grief those top hats in marketing have clearly done their job to condition the consumer zeitgeist so insidiously.
That fact that people already expect micro-transactions as part of their experience* pretty much concedes defeat on ever seeing a "Great MMO" again.
The f2p cashshop consumer base is already catered for with a cheese platter of MMOs
What is missing in the market is a subscription only* MMO for the disenfranchised but substantial MMO community who have been searching for a dependable place to settle into. We are the destitute looking for a new home, and we have been promised a place to stay numerous times, only to have the rug pulled from under us on every occasion.
For some us Intrepid's promise is the last bastion of hope, the fact it has a cash shop however is unsettling and does not encourage 100% respect in the product.
(I still backed it. Not because it was the best*, but because there was nothing better*)
An MMO should be in it for the long haul... Not some spit in the pan meme....
But maybe i am just fooling myself believing the general consumers of today don't have the attention spans or patience anymore...
Well I think you guys are just self entitling yourselves to your prefferred business model based on your past experiences. Let us go over some posts. Like the have and the have nots. So lets say you are a have not. Meaning you may have to save like 2 dollars a week at most for a certain amount of time to buy an item. Well when you finally get the item you will have a far better sense of accomplishment and acheivement than they guy that bought the same item right of the bat. (kind of like rich kids with expensive cars that do not fully appreciate them). Statement based on some of the posts I have read.
Or lets say you buy a nice shield but wait other players have the same sheild (the everyone has everything string of thought) Now you do not feel so special. Is not that the same thing as two women wearing the same dress to a wedding and all the sudden they are upset at each other.
The only valid concern I have actually seen is making the cash shop items far better than in game items intentionally, but not enough to say you should not have a cash shop. Most other reasons are feeling based.
Cash shops are way to sell optional adittional digital art to players best description I can think of.
I honestly dont see the concern here because its just cosmetics. If you want to look fancy and can afford it then buy it. If not then dont buy it. If youre complaining cuz other people looking fancy will make you jealous, well sorry to break it to you but youre pathetic... If youre worried that cosmetic shop gear will look far better than anything a f2p player can obtain well im 99% sure devs arent dumb enough to do that not to mention they stated that in game gear will have equal if not greater caliber of digital art as those in the cosmetics shop. Lastly you shouldnt really be whining about a cosmetics shop before the game comes out in my opinion. Experience the game and then whine if you think the shop is ruining your ingame experience. At that point it would mean that the gameplay isnt satisfying you, or the cash shop really is detrimental to experience.
I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this but it sounds like our in-game gear's appearance will be based off our race, armor type, and tier. It looks like the cash shop costumes will have one look, ignoring those factors. This leads me to believe that the looks will just be different and one will not necessarily be better then another.
I know this is what people have been saying but i haven't seen anyone give a good example so here is one.
This is the armor you will be able to get in game as an empyrean elf. To me at least, this armor looks good.
But say your master of life and death (cleric) is speced more on the death side and you want to have a more ominous appearance. You could go to the cash shop and cover up your beautiful elf armor with a necromancer's costume.
I might be wrong but it sounds like this is the goal of the system. You have cool ingame armor but allow you to cover it up with a different style if you desire.
NOTE: I failed to add that you can earn costumes in-game. The cash shop isn't the only place to get costumes.
I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this but it sounds like our in-game gear's appearance will be based off our race, armor type, and tier. It looks like the cash shop costumes will have one look, ignoring those factors. This leads me to believe that the looks will just be different and one will not necessarily be better then another.
I know this is what people have been saying but i haven't seen anyone give a good example so here is one.
This is the armor you will be able to get in game as an empyrean elf. To me at least, this armor looks good.
But say your master of life and death (cleric) is speced more on the death side and you want to have a more ominous appearance. You could go to the cash shop and cover up your beautiful elf armor with a necromancer's costume.
I might be wrong but it sounds like this is the goal of the system. You have cool ingame armor but allow you to cover it up with a different style if you desire.
If I am understanding it right, the way you explain it it would create too much separation between what is available in game and at the cash shop. I my eyes a no go if it is done this way.
So even if let's say the game gear looks great but locks into specific looks based off of out race, armor type and tier. But you could get cash shops gear that looks unique to ignore this race armor and tier lock.
It would give cash gear an edge over the in game gear, and to break out of these generic locks you would have to spend money on top of the subscription to do this.
This is the sort of stuff I am worried about between separation of what is available in the game and what is available in the cash shop.
Tho there is no way to really know till it happens.
Maybe after reading some of the posts and concerns in this thread the team could maybe make an official announcement to further transparency on how the cash shop will work and how in game and cash shops items will differ.
If I am understanding it right, the way you explain it it would create too much separation between what is available in game and at the cash shop. I my eyes a no go if it is done this way.
So even if let's say the game gear looks great but locks into specific looks based off of out race, armor type and tier. But you could get cash shops gear that looks unique to ignore this race armor and tier lock.
It would give cash gear an edge over the in game gear, and to break out of these generic locks you would have to spend money on top of the subscription to do this.
This is the sort of stuff I am worried about between separation of what is available in the game and what is available in the cash shop.
Tho there is no way to really know till it happens.
Maybe after reading some of the posts and concerns in this thread the team could maybe make an official announcement to further transparency on how the cash shop will work and how in game and cash shops items will differ.
Yes, i failed to add that you can earn costumes in-game. I edited my post.
My impression is people feared another BDO where in-game gear looks like potato sacks and i think we can prove that is not the case with the concepts we already have. That was the main goal of my post.
@Meudestroy You're comparing apples and oranges. A better Metaphor would be to say what if Netflix added custom backgrounds to it's interface (like steam). It doesn't lock any shows behind a payment wall, just adds flair to the interface.
No one complains that steam content is locked behind a payment wall because you can buy backgrounds. Intrepid has already said that the outfits you find will be equally flashy, no need to pay to look good.
About as true as it gets. If people want to look all flashy when killing mobs let them. If Intrepid can make this game what they promise then they deserve a little extra money, but you're not being forced to buy it.
I do believe there should be a way to earn 'currency' (though a big grind would be associated with it) in game to use in the cash shop, as somebody posted in that "embers" discussion that it could be an in game reward to spend in the shop. I like the sound of that but wouldn't bother me if that wasn't the case.
As long as a kid with daddy's credit card can't go into the cash shop and buy [ Level - 100 "Noob Slayer Sword" ] I'm fine with it. Intrepid promised this will never be the case and thank god it's about time.
Edit: I would like to note though that ANYTHING in a cash shop should not be able to be traded for in game currency, or traded in game full stop as this could also ruin the in game economy. As long as the cash shop stays completely separate then Steven can put as much flash and sparkle in the cash shop as he wants (within moderation, don't let it distract from making in game content we all pay for through our subs)
I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this but it sounds like our in-game gear's appearance will be based off our race, armor type, and tier. It looks like the cash shop costumes will have one look, ignoring those factors. This leads me to believe that the looks will just be different and one will not necessarily be better then another.
I know this is what people have been saying but i haven't seen anyone give a good example so here is one.
This is the armor you will be able to get in game as an empyrean elf. To me at least, this armor looks good.
But say your master of life and death (cleric) is speced more on the death side and you want to have a more ominous appearance. You could go to the cash shop and cover up your beautiful elf armor with a necromancer's costume.
I might be wrong but it sounds like this is the goal of the system. You have cool ingame armor but allow you to cover it up with a different style if you desire.
NOTE: I failed to add that you can earn costumes in-game. The cash shop isn't the only place to get costumes.
That armor looks terrible in its rendered form, the robe looks good, but, we're yet to see a render of it.
I wouldn't have an issue with microtransactions of cosmetics as long as players are not able to earn the same exact cosmetic(s) in-game and vice versa. Just imagine that you had been working day and night tirelessly to earn a specific cosmetic item, then a friend of yours logs on to check out your new look and then decides to copy cat you by purchasing the same cosmetic with the click of a single button. If that was me, I'd be pissed... Like if you agree.
I wouldn't have an issue with microtransactions of cosmetics as long as players are not able to earn the same exact cosmetic(s) in-game and vice versa. Just imagine that you had been working day and night tirelessly to earn a specific cosmetic item, then a friend of yours logs on to check out your new look and then decides to copy cat you by purchasing the same cosmetic with the click of a single button. If that was me, I'd be pissed... Like if you agree.
You're looking at the wrong MMO then, this is a "better" generic MMO.
Man, you must have been pissed when you and Tiffany showed up at Amber's sweet sixteen party wearing the same dress. Awkwaaard!
Oh yh... don't even get me started... I was so ******* pissed that day😡😡 ugghh... She was my bestie but unfortunately, our friendship had to come to an end that night... I can't believe she embarrassed me infront of all my other friends by wearing that same stupid dress as me 😑😔😣 (I bin lit that dress on my way home btw.. but I also ran naked half that journey 😜). Luckily, I've moved on now and was able to reimburse my morality once I had found my new bestie. Her name is Microlia Transact and let me tell ya..., She's got a very unique personality 👍👍, at least that's what I see...
If it's anything like FFXIV's cash shop it'll be okay. I'd rather a box cost with monthly sub and no microtransactions at all. Cosmetics only is better than P2W, but it's still an extra paywall, and people claiming that items like mounts, pets, clothing and furniture don't constitute content is pretty ****. Justifying any kind of MTX is always a slippery slope. As long as there's plenty of cool gear in-game though, it'll be fine.
Let's hope this game is good when it comes out lol or alot of people have wasted there money in the shop for no reason I think I'm going to wait til the game come out till I buy anything.
If I was developing a game (in my dreams ) I would get rid of the cash shop by having a clearly defined Service Level Agreement (SLA) as part of the monthly Subscription.
The SLA would define a commitment to produce a number of cosmetic's per month or per 2 months etc , that any player can immediately use . Everything else must be in-game. Not producing these cosmetics would be violation of the contract for everyone to see.
Im sure my game would go broke after a while , but hey the journey would be amazing.
For me, the main concerns about a cash shop are as follows: 1) unique models. No unique models on a cash shop. Recolors and variations are fine, but every model should be obtainable in some form in the game. I think it would be perfectly fine however to have each model in the game be unique, and only have recolors available from the cash shop. 2) a UI button. No, don't even think about it. It totally ruins the immersion in the game, especially in a game where commerce is a big deal, if you are constantly being made aware of real-world transactions. A button on the launcher, title or character-select screen is fine. But when I'm playing the game I want to forget that I'm playing a game. 3) no consummables. If having multiple characters is going to be/becomes common then ideally cash shop items should be bound to accounts not characters for the same reason. I don't want to feel obligated to go back to the cash shop every month or whatever. For me, a cash shop is an extra: an addition to the game. As long as the game has plenty of content in it, I'm perfectly happy to have a cash shop. Many of the arguments against them ignore the reason why they exist in the first place: the increased cost of game development, due to increased labor cost. The subscription fee or box price of a game, is often not sufficient for the company to make a profit off it: microtransactions make up the difference. Cash shops, especially if they allow for gift-giving, can even add to the social aspect of a game. For example, if you can buy an item that turns you into a creature which your friend can ride. That adds something to the experience of the game, opening up roleplaying opportunities and breaking barriers between players. It's an MMORPG, that is a cooperative roleplaying game. Ideally cash shop items would offer expanded roleplaying opportunities, or ease cooperation.
Comments
I am pretty solidly in the camp of no cash shop at all. I think microtransactions are an excellent idea for F2P games, but they should ONLY EVER be a part of F2P games.
If the game is successful and has a lot of subs then they will be making more than enough money to employ everyone and make a tidy profit (based on my awesome [nil] knowledge of economics and business development). Steven is already rich, I don’t think this is his big money-making scheme. There are hundreds of easier ways to make money than to make an MMO! This is why it is a little odd to add in a cash shop as well as a sub.
I echo the concerns of people who question the direction and the destination of the money made from the cash shop. Will it simply get pumped back into more cash shop items, so the cash shop expands and expands, or will it be pumped back into the game itself so we can have more actual content?
We have already seen a number of companies change the fundamental gameplay and progression of their games to suit the inclusion of the cash shop and loot boxes. I know these companies are well known for their shady practices but people are right to be sceptical and a little fearful of the lure of those dollars corrupting someone with even the best of intentions.
If games do go cashshops i usually hope they go the.. well... for example Final Fantasy XIV cashshop... or the Elder Scrolls Online (minus the RNG lootboxes they have now)).. those are reasonable. Unlike sadly alot of both older as well as upcoming MMO's
League of legends is a fantastic example to follow as far as cosmetic cash shops go. League was entirely funded by champion skins for years. Sure some of the skins cost 20-30$ but those are only for very high end ones. The skins that don't really add any particle effects or really change the look of abilities are very cheap(5$ range). If riot was able to literally fund a game for years off of reasonably priced cosmetics, I don't see why an mmo with a subscription can't too.
If they are putting in huge amounts of time for a cosmetic or mount skin, fine, charge me a butt load of money, but once a recolored armor set that took 2 minutes to change from the base costs 30$ I will never spend a dime on the cash shop.
Based on their prices in the shop already, this outlandish pricing model seems to be the direction they are going tho, so unless something changes by launch they will never get any of my money for cosmetics.
Contrary
There is no need for it.
What we NEED are companies that set examples, that are successful without cash shops and micro transactions.
Companies that are not driven by share holders and corporate laws, cause then its kinda out of the developers hands and gives power to the majority shares and voice of the company where their ONE goal is to make money.
It's why with a indie companies like IS and VR, the hope is that they would refrain from using cash shops and shine a beacon of light in the gaming industry. If the product is good and they maintain with integrity that people would flock to these dependent companies. with very large potential gain in the sheer volume of subscriptions. As well as paid expansions.
Then it would fall to us to support these companies and refrain from spending money on companies like EA, Ubi, Capcom, etc. Cause at the end of the day the blame and responsibility is to the player base. If players complain about greed and continue to support those companies then of course they will not stop.
My primary HOPE is that IS would remove the cash shop. But in the likely event they do not, that they do it in a ethical way. Where primary focus remains on the game itself and the cash shop secondary.
I have high hopes for AOC and majority of what Steven wants to put into it, would love to see it succeed, but I have strong reservations against the cash shop and Micro Transactions and rightfully so, due to the nature of Micro Transactions and how they have been used even in games that are not PTW.
It's fine if you don't want a cash shop, in some regards I agree with you, but give Intrepid the chance to change your mind. Wait until the game is released then decide wether or not it's all it promised.
catering to Cash Shop is more like restocking the cash shop. If you want to keep selling items you have to present new ones cause old ones have reached thier sales peak. (most of the people that will buy those items already have) Making new gear does not require a lot of effort and can be relatively cheap just look at some of the digital art already for sale at sites like deviantart.com. While making more content takes real time and money. So it is not like they are slacking on making content.
IS might plan to go free to play for reasons like building a player base other mmorpgs have gone free to play and have replenished their player base even kept them from dying so Intrepid is just putting themselves in the best possible position to succeed not exactly greedy (future is uncertain). mmorpgs make tons of money if they make a good game that many players want to play. The game has to be good on its own merit in the first place cash shop just helps out a lot.
There should not be a great disparity between in game items and items in the cash shop. Never the less if people are going to pay money for a cosmetic item it should look pretty good really no way around it.
As far as Greed is concerned it is not Cash Shop specific. Some devs make the game intentionally to grindy thinking they are smart. Basically forcing players to do certain grinds to have near optimal stats(not talking about rare items or legendaries).
Other Devs make it so it takes an excessively amount of gold to just play forcing players to grind gold excessively. Time Sinks and Gold Sinks. There is a right way and wrong way to do it.
Guild of Wars is making a ton of cash and the expansion that it just came out is pretty good but they got Greedy with the cash shop which is just plain stupid. They have no idea how many players they just lost. I do not understand how the devs can think they are smarter than their entire player base. Solution is to run the cash shop better not get rid of it.
I said this before on this discussion IF they get greedy and decide to exploit the game in some fashion they will lose money in the long run cause players will notice but so far they have not done that. (Surprised they stopped the KS for example Star Citizen is at 160 million plus with their crowd funding)
Personally, I think that the more money IS makes the better. It is not naive to believe that the more money they make the better game will be. It is just the truth. Steve has made many many good decisions in my opinion in Ashes of Creation. In order for him to revalutionize this genre he will need huge amount of resources. Pretty sure he has huge dreams. Maybe they will have money for advertising and stuff.(said they did have millions to throw at advertising some sources say,think EA, says half the cost of a game is advertising)
I never feel pressured to buy skins, and tbh I almost never notice them anyways. However, whenever I see someone with an expensive skin, I usually give a little mental nod to them, like "I see you're a man of culture as well." Having skins can be prestigious without being oppressive, and having a diverse cash shop can lead to a positive game environment.
OMG I hope not lol. If they ever go FTP I am out.
Consultant with comments like that, you are not helping your side of the debate, saying Cash Shops are ok.
I think you have good intentions and a positive out look on possibilities, but some of the things you say make people feel more cautious instead of at ease about having cash shops in the game.
One of the main reasons a lot of people are excited about this game is that it is not FTP.
Good grief those top hats in marketing have clearly done their job to condition the consumer zeitgeist so insidiously.
That fact that people already expect micro-transactions as part of their experience* pretty much concedes defeat on ever seeing a "Great MMO" again.
The f2p cashshop consumer base is already catered for with a cheese platter of MMOs
What is missing in the market is a subscription only* MMO for the disenfranchised but substantial MMO community who have been searching for a dependable place to settle into. We are the destitute looking for a new home, and we have been promised a place to stay numerous times, only to have the rug pulled from under us on every occasion.
For some us Intrepid's promise is the last bastion of hope, the fact it has a cash shop however is unsettling and does not encourage 100% respect in the product.
(I still backed it. Not because it was the best*, but because there was nothing better*)
An MMO should be in it for the long haul...
Not some spit in the pan meme....
But maybe i am just fooling myself believing the general consumers of today don't have the attention spans or patience anymore...
Or lets say you buy a nice shield but wait other players have the same sheild (the everyone has everything string of thought) Now you do not feel so special. Is not that the same thing as two women wearing the same dress to a wedding and all the sudden they are upset at each other.
The only valid concern I have actually seen is making the cash shop items far better than in game items intentionally, but not enough to say you should not have a cash shop. Most other reasons are feeling based.
Cash shops are way to sell optional adittional digital art to players best description I can think of.
I know this is what people have been saying but i haven't seen anyone give a good example so here is one.
This is the armor you will be able to get in game as an empyrean elf. To me at least, this armor looks good.
But say your master of life and death (cleric) is speced more on the death side and you want to have a more ominous appearance. You could go to the cash shop and cover up your beautiful elf armor with a necromancer's costume.
I might be wrong but it sounds like this is the goal of the system. You have cool ingame armor but allow you to cover it up with a different style if you desire.
NOTE: I failed to add that you can earn costumes in-game. The cash shop isn't the only place to get costumes.
So even if let's say the game gear looks great but locks into specific looks based off of out race, armor type and tier. But you could get cash shops gear that looks unique to ignore this race armor and tier lock.
It would give cash gear an edge over the in game gear, and to break out of these generic locks you would have to spend money on top of the subscription to do this.
This is the sort of stuff I am worried about between separation of what is available in the game and what is available in the cash shop.
Tho there is no way to really know till it happens.
Maybe after reading some of the posts and concerns in this thread the team could maybe make an official announcement to further transparency on how the cash shop will work and how in game and cash shops items will differ.
My impression is people feared another BDO where in-game gear looks like potato sacks and i think we can prove that is not the case with the concepts we already have. That was the main goal of my post.
I do believe there should be a way to earn 'currency' (though a big grind would be associated with it) in game to use in the cash shop, as somebody posted in that "embers" discussion that it could be an in game reward to spend in the shop. I like the sound of that but wouldn't bother me if that wasn't the case.
As long as a kid with daddy's credit card can't go into the cash shop and buy [ Level - 100 "Noob Slayer Sword" ] I'm fine with it. Intrepid promised this will never be the case and thank god it's about time.
Edit: I would like to note though that ANYTHING in a cash shop should not be able to be traded for in game currency, or traded in game full stop as this could also ruin the in game economy. As long as the cash shop stays completely separate then Steven can put as much flash and sparkle in the cash shop as he wants (within moderation, don't let it distract from making in game content we all pay for through our subs)
The SLA would define a commitment to produce a number of cosmetic's per month or per 2 months etc , that any player can immediately use . Everything else must be in-game.
Not producing these cosmetics would be violation of the contract for everyone to see.
Im sure my game would go broke after a while , but hey the journey would be amazing.
1) unique models. No unique models on a cash shop. Recolors and variations are fine, but every model should be obtainable in some form in the game. I think it would be perfectly fine however to have each model in the game be unique, and only have recolors available from the cash shop.
2) a UI button. No, don't even think about it. It totally ruins the immersion in the game, especially in a game where commerce is a big deal, if you are constantly being made aware of real-world transactions. A button on the launcher, title or character-select screen is fine. But when I'm playing the game I want to forget that I'm playing a game.
3) no consummables. If having multiple characters is going to be/becomes common then ideally cash shop items should be bound to accounts not characters for the same reason. I don't want to feel obligated to go back to the cash shop every month or whatever.
For me, a cash shop is an extra: an addition to the game. As long as the game has plenty of content in it, I'm perfectly happy to have a cash shop. Many of the arguments against them ignore the reason why they exist in the first place: the increased cost of game development, due to increased labor cost. The subscription fee or box price of a game, is often not sufficient for the company to make a profit off it: microtransactions make up the difference. Cash shops, especially if they allow for gift-giving, can even add to the social aspect of a game. For example, if you can buy an item that turns you into a creature which your friend can ride. That adds something to the experience of the game, opening up roleplaying opportunities and breaking barriers between players. It's an MMORPG, that is a cooperative roleplaying game. Ideally cash shop items would offer expanded roleplaying opportunities, or ease cooperation.
Hope your having fun with Alpha 0
For those that haven't seen it yet
Dungeon Crawler Network made an episode on micro transactions, go check it out.
They have some nice episodes covering AOC deff worth a subscription.
I think I may have won the Worlds Record in the longest Youtube reply in history