Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
As for those that are saying that there should be 0 micro transactions ever. While id love for that to happen... It's wishful thinking. If say they make the game free to play then you better be ready for micro-transactions. The game has to make money. If they don't they can't afford to keep the lights on. Look at games like Path of Exile as an example. Tons of micro-transactions and is doing well. Even with them being over the top expensive, but they have a new update every three months. As long as they don't do what SWTOR or STO did which basically, locked everything behind a pay wall they will do fine. Even WoW, FFXIV and GW2 have micro-transactions and they are doing well. Just has to be in moderation.
Sorry to resurrect this thread :P
But since the CS is already in the plans from the beginning I really want to see more about how they are going to handle it before I know if I can tolerate it.
I'd like to believe that if it was included by Steven, as much as he hates the Cash grab practices as he says he does. Because there was clear signs that the game wasn't going to have enough income with only the subscription from the get go and adding a box cost might slow down the population growth enough to make it dangerous, as the game is heavily dependant on community to drive it's content and launches are important (I mean look at wildstar), so they needed to make it accessible which the box cost is not.
Plus they do not create lore for every item that they put in game so...not really a valid statement in my opinion. In fact they have more items than they have lore...(literally cannot make a story for every item) so really there is no lore taken out of the game.
Now if you had a ton of stories but no items to go with that lore then I would see your point but that is not the case
Just go to the Ashes of Creation Wiki and search cash shop on there website search bar, to be better informed about this topic
I will most likely learn to live with it. I just don't like it.
I would understand if this was about p2w items from the cash shop like warframe where you can buy all the items or grind them for much longer, but in the end it all a cosmetic look for which you spend real money which you most likely worked your ass off to get.
1) There is no advantage to the cash shop items over what is available through gameplay
2) The cash shop items are distinctive from the items that can be won or crafted by achievement in game (no cloned items with a slightly different color)
3) No world breaking items. (I don't need a high fantasy game with anime rave girls and boys running around. As long as the items or wardrobe feel like they belong in the game it's fine by me)
With that said I have no concerns of P2W so 1 is out of the picture. 3 I'm not concerned over either as they have been very big on keeping with idea of a high fantasy world and I can't see them wanting to destroy that. 2 is the only one I could see being an issue and I'm just going to hope they don't go this path. Looking awesome is great for both options but an experienced player should be able to instantly tell the difference between a hard won set of armor and a set purchased out of the cash shop.
I wouldn't say IS will use copies but similarities between 2 armor sets are not very uncommon, of course I don't want to see any recoloured armors and them being called 'separate' sets.
I don't see it happening but I have seen it done in other games and it destroys the impressiveness of the achievement.
Kickstarter Exclusive - Obsidian Stallion
And no one can talk to a horse of course,
That is, of course, unless the horse is black, and the other white.
The subscription is a steady source of revenue that (unlike the volatile income from cometics) will ensure a steady flow of content. The shop will allow them to fastened more bells and whistles to the game than a box cost ever could, and possibly allow them to hire even more talent.
Additionally, their referral system will reduce the subscription cost if you refer another player to the game.
I play MMOs competitively but I refuse to compete with my wallet and will just unsubscribe if this appears to be the case in AoC.
If Intrepid is truly only going to offer vanity items that do not offer any advantages whatsoever, they must be no trade no drop tagged in order to prevent players from trading them in-game for in-game coin or items, as that would constitute buying an advantage.
Normally I disdain any restrictions on trading items but this is mandatory for items purchased outside the game world with real monies from the developer.
The problem comes when the game is so mismanaged and riven by greed that the compulsory funding is not enough to maintain the game. Thats the point when the voluntary cash shop then becomes a compulsory source of funding that is required to keep the game afloat.
The we start to see...
1. 'Exclusive' items that can only be bought in the cash shop.
2. An impossible grind in game so paying in the cash shop is the only real alternative.
3. A deliberately broken RNG system that amount to an eternal grind that forces you to take the realistic alternative of the cash shop.
4. where the shit really hits the fan...paying directly for an ever slimmer RNG chance of getting something 'exclusive' in the cash shop (loot boxes / gambling).
I think that covers all the modern shitty practices. It is the 'illusion' of choice that 'guarantees' income.
No MMO that I have ever seen has been able to sustain itself on one source of income. Games like EverQuest, EverQuest 2 and WoW all had both box prices and subscriptions. On top of that, these games had expansion costs as well - what is an expansion to an MMO other than more content behind a payment barrier? MMO's now have largely moved to subscription and microtransaction instead of subscription and box, a welcome change to me. I mean, look at ESO; it has subscription (optional, admittidly), paid for content and a microtransaction store that - while not pay to win - has more than just cosmetics.
With AoC having no box price, a $15 a month subscription fee (The same amount that I was paying in 2004 for EQ2) and a cosmetics only cash shop, playing it will be the cheapest MMORPG I've played in my 15 years of online gaming - and a very welcome change from paying ~$250 a month in Archeage.
I understand your apprehension. The state and direction of other Mmorpg's is why I started Ashes. You don't have to agree with the pricing structure of the crowdsourcing add ons, but rest assured Ashes will never include monetization practices that require players to pay to win or stay competitive. And there will be an abundance of in game cosmetics that are achievable and rare, some on par with marketplace cosmetics
Some on par with marketplace cosmetics. Some usually refers to a few. Meaning there will be many items in Cash Shop that are better than what we can get in game. That's a direct quote BTW wish I had a link couldn't find it but that was linked from System Error earlier in this thread.
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Here is the thing many people argue that as long as it is not PTW and it is just cosmetics it is ok. But here is the thing looks in a game is very important. If I'm paying a sub fee and while there are things I can grind there will be that much more cooler stuff I have to buy that I can't get by playing the game that's imbalance and there is no justification that will change that.
Goal is to create risk vrs reward, cash shops even just for cosmetics takes away from that. where is the risk in going to a cash shop to look better than someone else with no risk other than maybe missing a payment because you spent too much on a game to look good.
Goal to create a tight community. Having Haves and Have Nots element "Cash Shops" takes away from that as well and creates a separation. Let's be real what's the number one thing in real life that separates the Haves and Have Nots? That's right image, appearance how one looks over another, Better cloths, better skin care, better stylist. Appearance in present day is important where it's in real life or in a game, it has a huge impact. that is truth and that is reality.
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Cash shop to this day is my only apprehension for AOC and everything else about it I love. I really do hope it has balance I really do hope that if it gets out of hand it at some point it will get toned down. Making a lot of money is a funny thing tho and if cash shop ends up turning more profit than the subs it can get real ugly real fast and its gonna be hard to resist making more of it regardless of how it effects the game and honestly this is the biggest concern I have as well as the fact if I am paying a sub I feel I shouldn't have to be spending extra money to get something especially since it's not earned.
The best and most memorable games I've played is where I had to work for the things I got not by paying for it and yes this includes how one looks.
If it get's to the point where majority of cool stuff can only be gotten through cash shops that will be enough to turn me away at that point. If I've been playing for 2 years and I see a bunch of brand new players walking around looking better than me cause I prefer to earn the way I look rather than pay for it, that will be enough to turn me away from the game. How one looks in a game is an important factor it shows experience it shows effort put in. To have people walking around looking better than you and all they had to do was pay for it cheapens the game experience.
This to me is what confuses me the most about AOC. Steve sounds like a great guy he has great ideas and has amazing people working for him and this community is amazing. So for all the things he wants to bring to this game and all the best from old school games such as, risk vrs reward, a challenging game, a tight community. I don't understand why risk all that with a cash shop that could derail all those wonderful things.
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If there is a cash shop and obviously at this point there will be:
1) There needs to be a lot more items in game that are on par with cash shop items than just SOME. In fact, there should be more items in game that are on par with what is available in cash shops than there are those grade of items in ash shops.
2) Cash shop items should not be better than what's available in game just different. That's a fine line and a hard one to make when money is involved.
3) In game items that take a long time to acquire or are hard to get should alway look superior to anything you can purchase.
If I want to make an inn look good it should be through effort crafting gathering the mats hiring goods or skill from players that are master crafters boosting game economy, over simply purchasing a skin for the in or residence.
To me all cash shops will ever do to a game is create rifts in communities and cheapen the game experience and yes even if its just looks. Is too high a price to pay for what we all hope AOC to be.
I really hope by the time game releases and I know this is wishful thinking but I really hope box purchase and expansion purchase will replace cash shops if not at the beginning at some point.
I'd rather $20 a month than a cash shop , box purchase, expansion purchase.
Bottom line any time you can purchase over earning it cheapens the experience at a heavy cost to the wallet.
People undersell appearance in a game it has a huge impact of ones enjoyment.
I have never seen anything good come from having cash shops in game. At most some games don't get as greedy and try to balance things out. Even in thos games cash shops were never a good thing.
They are a badge of honor that demonstrates a feat of strength, or intelligence, or dexterity, and should be worn with honor so that everyone knows what you were able to accomplish, not what you were able to pay for.
That's just my humble opinion.
MMORPG subscriptions since 2004 (I can't remember what I paid prior to 2004) have been fairly consistent at $15 per month - adjusted for inflation that would now be $20.06.
So we are paying 25% less for our monthly subscription than we were with games in the past - and as long as microtransactions are cosmetic only, we have no need to pay any more than that.
Basically, we are getting a good deal here.
However, if someone does want to buy costumes, they can simply put aside the inflation adjusted amount of $20.06 every month, and put what is left after their subscription towards microtransactions. They can do this knowing full well that they are paying the exact same (adjusted for inflation) fee that MMORPG's have always charged.