A cash shop is a cash shop, most mmo's have them and there are no problems with it (aside from most eastern mmo's that have p2w). If you dont like the idea of a cash shop with cosmetics only then dont play no one is forcing you to.
@AutumnLeaf You're right ... no one is forcing me to play ... but i guarantee you the Cash Shop will force many others to stop playing it if/when P2W are implemented due to lack of players.
Why would there be a lack of players ? Because no one* likes to see a Cash Shop in an MMORPG.
So GL playing with a few players online everyone once in awhile
I'm being devil's advocate here tbh
... but If I didn't care / If I wasn't concerned ... i wouldn't be saying anything about it. Would you rather hear it from me , a backer ? Or the latter of a new player that knows nothing about this MMO ? Its something worth thinking over ...
because I won't say I told ya so if happens either ...
@AutumnLeaf You're right ... no one is forcing me to play ... but i guarantee you the Cash Shop will force many others to stop playing it if/when P2W are implemented due to lack of players.
Why would there be a lack of players ? Because no likes to see a Cash Shop in an MMORPG.
So GL playing with a few players online everyone once in awhile
I'm being devil's advocate here tbh
... but If I didn't care / If I wasn't concerned ... i wouldn't be saying anything about it. Would you rather hear it from me , a backer ? Or the latter of a new player that knows nothing about this MMO ? Its something worth thinking over ...
because I won't say I told ya so if happens either ...
This is a pretty pointless thing to talk about, even WoW has a cash shop and is the most popular mmo, you got your opinion I got mine
Cosmetic Items are OPTIONAL you don't have to buy them if you do not want to. So subscription fee sounds good to me when you are not asked to pay for anything more. Play for a month don't like it.... don't pay next month. Like it want to buy a cool cosmetic item.. buy it. If you take in the time you will spend playing the game "lets say its 30 hours a week so 120 hours a month average and the game is $15 a month that's $0.125 per hour of game play. There are not many things in the world that you can do that cheap.
Fact: AoC is planned to have a store where one can purchase cosmetics if they so desire.
Opinion: This cosmetic store will ruin Ashes.
Fact: Bias makes for a bad argument foundation.
Opinion: Ignoring the fact that AoC has shown no intentions of reversing their no P2W policy and making unsubstantiated claims based on that is rather silly.
subscription + box price is not really an option nowadays though. Not at the usual subscription fee at least.
Either they increase the subscription fee, which would affect everyone, or they have cash shop too.
It's not them being greedy. It's just that expensive to run an MMORPG while making decent updates to it.
I rather have the cash shop than have to pay a higher subscription fee.
And also, the box price does nothing in the long run. That's just a one time income that won't make much of a difference. It might even reduce the amount of players that try it out and continue playing, which would be a bigger loss than what they gained from the box income.
subscription + box price is not really an option nowadays though. Not at the usual subscription fee at least.
Either they increase the subscription fee, which would affect everyone, or they have cash shop too.
It's not them being greedy. It's just that expensive to run an MMORPG while making decent updates to it.
I rather have the cash shop than have to pay a higher subscription fee.
And also, the box price does nothing in the long run. That's just a one time income that won't make much of a difference. It might even reduce the amount of players that try it out and continue playing, which would be a bigger loss than what they gained from the box income.
There is no box price. You download the game, pay your sub, and that is it.
[11:10] We already know AoC is gonna be subscription based MMO with a cosmetic cash shop and no box cost, what made you decide to go with the subscription model in a time when most new MMOs are going F2P?
Probably the most important aspect is that Steven does not want any way, shape or form for there to be Pay2Win, or even Pay2Convenicne, or any kind of cash grab.
F2P come to market, push player advancement behind a paywall, highly incentivized item shop Pay2Win mechanics. Makes Steven so mad, very grumpy.
These shift the ability for community progression because one whale can just come in and ruin it.
Subscription is a constant source of unbiased income, allows them to develop continually, allows them to ignore Pay2Win cash grab mechanics.
Doesn’t mean to shit on games, but recognizes that gamers don’t want these Pay2Win mechanics.
Security perspective; much higher wall to scale for gold sellers/botters if they have to sub into the game.
@CptBrownBeard " intentions " can easily be " persuaded " if players begin to leave. The fact that you think this is an ... " argument " ... is sad tbh. The fact that even @AutumnLeaf thinks ..
" This is a pretty pointless thing to talk about ... "
to clarify, something similar to what FFXIV 1.0 did via ... temporarily shutting down the servers, is the initial approach ; listening to community feedback , making changes* and then reopening servers ... thus, "FFXIV A Realm Reborn" was made.
With all due respect ... I don't need to say anything - past events are the only thing needed to know ahead of time tbh. The root of all MTX begins with a Cash Shop. All the skins are still goodies blocked by a paywall - excluding KickStarter & Summer Crowding Funding since its backing of the game . The only thing i like from the store is the Merchandise ... via Shirts, Caps, Lanyard, Mousepad and Sweater
... So don't you dare try to belittle nor disregard what I'm saying - its really f!cking important.
EDIT: If i didn't care, i would not have said anything
@AutumnLeaf@SaintJ@CptBrownBeard@Zastro@FliP Seeing as how you and many other users tried to defend in having a Cosmetic-Only Cash Shop ... i would love to know your newfound opinion on the matter
@AutumnLeaf@SaintJ@CptBrownBeard@Zastro@FliP Seeing as how you and many other users tried to defend in having a Cosmetic-Only Cash Shop ... i would love to know your newfound opinion on the matter
I'm pretty sure I made my opinion clear on the matter, why you are creating a shit storm over opinions is baffling to me. As for my.com and mail.ru being publisher yeah sure it's concerning but hardly going to loose my shit over something like this, if I didn't have a shred of trust in Intrepid then there would be no point in funding the game in the first place.
AutumnLeaf said:This is a pretty pointless thing to talk about, even WoW has a cash shop and is the most popular mmo, you got your opinion I got mine
wow currently has a cash shop.
However at the time wow evolved into what it is today, it didn't had one.
wow didn't started to sale items even before the game got launched, unlike some other game that is ~2year from launch, but already sells in game items at bulk....
In wow, up to end of wotlk (when it was at it's peak) didn't really had a significant cash shop. You could get account services like rename, transfer, customization, and there was a few non-combat pet and mount, but that's all.
There wasn't even skins that you could get at that time...
Now it's maybe different, however even wow's population is only a fragment of it's past glory...
@AutumnLeaf@SaintJ@CptBrownBeard@Zastro@FliP Seeing as how you and many other users tried to defend in having a Cosmetic-Only Cash Shop ... i would love to know your newfound opinion on the matter
I don't recall defending the cosmetic only cash shop. I recall clarifying false information and defending Intrepid's right to have a cash shop, but I never defended the cash shop itself. If I had my way there would not be a cash shop at all; an opinion I have made public in other threads.
This announcement about the EU publisher, though surprising, does not change my view. I trust Steven. If Steven thinks My.com can turn a new leaf then I will give them a chance too. The gaming industry needs companies to start anew; to start adopting a more player friendly attitude. To me, this is Steven giving the industry a chance. A chance to be part of the change that Ashes of Creation and Intrepid Studios are displaying and encouraging. If we the players never give them a chance to change then the whole industry is fucked. Plus, I do not think Steven would intentional screw his game over. Not after all the money he has personally dumped into it. I am not naive, I know things could go horribly. Some people, and companies, can't or won't change. We will just have to wait and see if Ashes' influence has caused companies to truely realize the amount discontent in the gaming community for the current status quo and inspired them (or at least scared them) into changing their ways.
@AutumnLeaf@SaintJ@CptBrownBeard@Zastro@FliP Seeing as how you and many other users tried to defend in having a Cosmetic-Only Cash Shop ... i would love to know your newfound opinion on the matter
@AutumnLeaf@SaintJ@CptBrownBeard@Zastro@FliP Seeing as how you and many other users tried to defend in having a Cosmetic-Only Cash Shop ... i would love to know your newfound opinion on the matter
I prefer not clicking our your link even if it's a harmless article from someone who agrees with your opinion. Could you please explain the contents of that article and it's relevence?
My.Com published Allods . Although its changed ( from what i heard ) its still Heavy-P2W. I know its really based on the Project but ...
This alone will deter / discourage others new players ( who likely knows nothing about the specifics ) in wanting to play via 1st impressions ... which could indirectly lower-sub count
low-sub count =increases the chances of going P2W = "sudden" changes to Cash Shop
But ... Intrepid said they'd rather do something similar to FFXIV . So that, ultimately makes me neutral
i.e. i kinda don't care what they say - their actions could be completely different
@McStackerson Btw , something i forgot to mention in my post above ...
:Literally, the only thing thats keeping me neutral is this ...
Steven is the Creative Director & (technically) the CEO ... who has invested an ample amount of his own funds into this Project ... i do not recall any CEOs in the past - in any studio - that put their own money within a Project - and if so, positively not as much as Steven did.
I'm really waiting for it. I'm not paying a monthly fee for a game to then be asked for more money for it's content even if it's only skins and cosmetics. Damm make the box cost money + monthly fee, I find it more fair then microtransactions in a monthly fee game.
That's free games economy, not tag priced ones and absolutely not the subscription based games... just thinking about it makes me laugh... and vomit
It's really sad every game is doing that mindless stuff now and people buy into it (even blizzard lol). I don't buy into it so I'm really waiting to see their take on it.
I'm completely hyped about this game, I'm trying not to be but you got me. Please don't disappoint me and many others with this microtransaction s***.
This is just money grabbing vampire schemes. It's sad and obvious.
Honestly in this market there is no possible way you can have any MMO without some kind of micro-transaction cash shop. As long as it's not P2W I'm happy.
I feel there should be both unique costumes/skins for Founders that can NEVER be obtained otherwise, Unique costumes/skins or titles for people who have spent significant money funding the game a well as unique skins that can ONLY be earned in game over time with great effort. (competitionist costumes etc.)
I also don't mind have Mounts and pets follow that same route so long as they are 100% cosmetic and don't give you any kind of additional buffs over in game acquired items.
And I know this might be a sore spot for some but these cash shop items really need to be amazing and in general look better than MOST in game default armor and weapon skins as that is the only way those cash shop items will be valuable enough for people to buy them.
I'm really waiting for it. I'm not paying a monthly fee for a game to then be asked for more money for it's content even if it's only skins and cosmetics. Damm make the box cost money + monthly fee, I find it more fair then microtransactions in a monthly fee game.
That's free games economy, not tag priced ones and absolutely not the subscription based games... just thinking about it makes me laugh... and vomit
It's really sad every game is doing that mindless stuff now and people buy into it (even blizzard lol). I don't buy into it so I'm really waiting to see their take on it.
I'm completely hyped about this game, I'm trying not to be but you got me. Please don't disappoint me and many others with this microtransaction s***.
This is just money grabbing vampire schemes. It's sad and obvious.
Honestly in this market there is no possible way you can have any MMO without some kind of micro-transaction cash shop. As long as it's not P2W I'm happy.
I feel there should be both unique costumes/skins for Founders that can NEVER be obtained otherwise, Unique costumes/skins or titles for people who have spent significant money funding the game a well as unique skins that can ONLY be earned in game over time with great effort. (competitionist costumes etc.)
I also don't mind have Mounts and pets follow that same route so long as they are 100% cosmetic and don't give you any kind of additional buffs over in game acquired items.
And I know this might be a sore spot for some but these cash shop items really need to be amazing and in general look better than MOST in game default armor and weapon skins as that is the only way those cash shop items will be valuable enough for people to buy them.
You’ve summed up my thoughts about the Embers shop perfectly.
Honestly in this market there is no possible way you can have any MMO without some kind of micro-transaction cash shop. As long as it's not P2W I'm happy.
bullshit
wow reached 13million subscriber, while having basically no cash shop, so where's your argument?
In a f2p game, you need cash shop. In a subscription based or b2p game, you didn't need one, it's only a possibility, if you want to milk the players more...
Honestly in this market there is no possible way you can have any MMO without some kind of micro-transaction cash shop. As long as it's not P2W I'm happy.
bullshit
wow reached 13million subscriber, while having basically no cash shop, so where's your argument?
In a f2p game, you need cash shop. In a subscription based or b2p game, you didn't need one, it's only a possibility, if you want to milk the players more...
WoW added a cash shop when they realized it could make them more money. They haven’t always had it but they’ve had it for a long time, at least since WotLK. It didn’t kill the game because it’s a side thing for people who want to buy things from it but it’s not in-your-face, and doesn’t make things pay to win. (Though it does have some pay to win elements for sale, like buying a max level character slot.)
To say a modern MMORPG has to have a cash shop to stay profitable isn't something anyone here can really speak to. Just because the modern MMO's have them doesn't prove they are a necessity. But I can prove that many MMO's died because of a cash shop. Obviously, the financial success of subscription model game will be dependent on how large the population is which is up in the air in regards to Ashes.
I just wish that, since this is Steven's passion project, that we started without a cash shop and then, implemented it if it was deemed a necessity to stay profitable. I think I could accept it much easier then.
Regardless of P2W concerns or immersion breaking arguments, I've always preferred that someone's gear reflect their in-game achievements.
Two points i would like to make 1. Knights and most soldiers for that matter didnt have to earn their armor and weapons they had to buy them. It was a simple fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths didnt work to give the best stuff to the most deserving they sold it to people who could pay for it. So i dont think IG you should only get the uber sword of doom because you earned it through your actions but you may have just bought it. 2. the simplest solution to the Micro-transactions is to simply make all cash shop items buyable with in game Gold. So you can spend some RL cash and get it or you can spend alot more IG currency to get it. that way it would be fair to all. Cash shop items should be account bound and untradeable.
How many other markets do you know of that haven't increased their base price in 15 years?
And? wow isn't working with like 10% margin... they have extremely high profit/investment ratio, so even if the money would inflate by 100% they would still very profitable without increasing the price...
Use your brain a little... their subscriber count dropped from 12,5m to 3-4million and still very profitable, lol mmos with 10-100k players are still kep'd alive, as they are still profitable even with such low numbers....
Maintaining a game server is very very cheap, that's not a small shop where every cent counts...
Two points i would like to make 1. Knights and most soldiers for that matter didnt have to earn their armor and weapons they had to buy them. It was a simple fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths didnt work to give the best stuff to the most deserving they sold it to people who could pay for it. So i dont think IG you should only get the uber sword of doom because you earned it through your actions but you may have just bought it. 2. the simplest solution to the Micro-transactions is to simply make all cash shop items buyable with in game Gold. So you can spend some RL cash and get it or you can spend alot more IG currency to get it. that way it would be fair to all. Cash shop items should be account bound and untradeable.
To your first point, Knights bought their armor with the money the knights themselves owned within their own world, not with some interdimensional currency they didn't even know existed.
In this analogy, the in-game currency would be Verra's money, or the knight's money and our world's cash would be the interdimensional currency.
as for your second point I will borrow Steven's words with which I agree 100%
Comments
You're right ... no one is forcing me to play ... but i guarantee you the Cash Shop will force many others to stop playing it if/when P2W are implemented due to lack of players.
- Why would there be a lack of players ? Because no one* likes to see a Cash Shop in an MMORPG.
So GL playing with a few players online everyone once in awhilebecause I won't say I told ya so if happens either ...
" ... you'll find outrageous excuses of why ... " its okay to have a cash shop " . Then you'll start seeing other ridiculous reasoning(s) later ... "
Opinion: This cosmetic store will ruin Ashes.
Fact: Bias makes for a bad argument foundation.
Opinion: Ignoring the fact that AoC has shown no intentions of reversing their no P2W policy and making unsubstantiated claims based on that is rather silly.
Just my two cents worth.
I for one welcome our artist overlords.
Either they increase the subscription fee, which would affect everyone, or they have cash shop too.
It's not them being greedy. It's just that expensive to run an MMORPG while making decent updates to it.
I rather have the cash shop than have to pay a higher subscription fee.
And also, the box price does nothing in the long run. That's just a one time income that won't make much of a difference. It might even reduce the amount of players that try it out and continue playing, which would be a bigger loss than what they gained from the box income.
[11:10] We already know AoC is gonna be subscription based MMO with a cosmetic cash shop and no box cost, what made you decide to go with the subscription model in a time when most new MMOs are going F2P?
The fact that you think this is an ... " argument " ... is sad tbh. The fact that even @AutumnLeaf thinks ..is even worse
History begs to differ . The only tad-bit of reassurance is this
https://youtu.be/_fPIP8uu6Pc?t=47m58s ( ends at 50:55 )
And the above link seems strikingly familiar to the scenario described in the link below
https://youtu.be/JciZoOKWWYg?t=1m12s ( ends at 1:25 )
With all due respect ... I don't need to say anything - past events are the only thing needed to know ahead of time tbh. The root of all MTX begins with a Cash Shop. All the skins are still goodies blocked by a paywall - excluding KickStarter & Summer Crowding Funding since its backing of the game . The only thing i like from the store is the Merchandise ... via Shirts, Caps, Lanyard, Mousepad and Sweater
... So don't you dare try to belittle nor disregard what I'm saying - its really f!cking important.
EDIT: If i didn't care, i would not have said anything
Seeing as how you and many other users tried to defend in having a Cosmetic-Only Cash Shop ... i would love to know your newfound opinion on the matter
https://worthplaying.com/article/2018/8/21/news/110548/
This announcement about the EU publisher, though surprising, does not change my view. I trust Steven. If Steven thinks My.com can turn a new leaf then I will give them a chance too. The gaming industry needs companies to start anew; to start adopting a more player friendly attitude. To me, this is Steven giving the industry a chance. A chance to be part of the change that Ashes of Creation and Intrepid Studios are displaying and encouraging. If we the players never give them a chance to change then the whole industry is fucked.
Plus, I do not think Steven would intentional screw his game over. Not after all the money he has personally dumped into it. I am not naive, I know things could go horribly. Some people, and companies, can't or won't change. We will just have to wait and see if Ashes' influence has caused companies to truely realize the amount discontent in the gaming community for the current status quo and inspired them (or at least scared them) into changing their ways.
I believe I was clear enough with my point of view.
My.Com published Allods . Although its changed ( from what i heard ) its still Heavy-P2W. I know its really based on the Project but ...
This alone will deter / discourage others new players ( who likely knows nothing about the specifics ) in wanting to play via 1st impressions ... which could indirectly lower-sub count
low-sub count =increases the chances of going P2W = "sudden" changes to Cash Shop
But ... Intrepid said they'd rather do something similar to FFXIV . So that, ultimately makes me neutral
i.e. i kinda don't care what they say - their actions could be completely different
:Literally, the only thing thats keeping me neutral is this ...
- Steven is the Creative Director & (technically) the CEO ... who has invested an ample amount of his own funds into this Project ... i do not recall any CEOs in the past - in any studio - that put their own money within a Project - and if so, positively not as much as Steven did.
- https://youtu.be/rcOdyuV0tX8?t=13m15s ( ends at 13:44 )
- https://youtu.be/JH-sX1aFljM?t=1h8m37s ( ends at 1:08:45 )
- ( although this last one is kinda of a double-edge sword .... but at least Steven is also a Gamer too )
Despite all of this, the My.Com is still unsettling nonethelessHence: neutral AF
I feel there should be both unique costumes/skins for Founders that can NEVER be obtained otherwise, Unique costumes/skins or titles for people who have spent significant money funding the game a well as unique skins that can ONLY be earned in game over time with great effort. (competitionist costumes etc.)
I also don't mind have Mounts and pets follow that same route so long as they are 100% cosmetic and don't give you any kind of additional buffs over in game acquired items.
And I know this might be a sore spot for some but these cash shop items really need to be amazing and in general look better than MOST in game default armor and weapon skins as that is the only way those cash shop items will be valuable enough for people to buy them.
WoW was released almost 15 years ago, and the market was TOTALLY different.
At that time, there were maybe 3 or 4 MMO's total. Now there are hundreds.
Interestingly, WoW released with a $15 a month subscription fee, the same Ashes will have, 15 years later.
How many other markets do you know of that haven't increased their base price in 15 years?
I just wish that, since this is Steven's passion project, that we started without a cash shop and then, implemented it if it was deemed a necessity to stay profitable. I think I could accept it much easier then.
Regardless of P2W concerns or immersion breaking arguments, I've always preferred that someone's gear reflect their in-game achievements.
1. Knights and most soldiers for that matter didnt have to earn their armor and weapons they had to buy them. It was a simple fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths didnt work to give the best stuff to the most deserving they sold it to people who could pay for it. So i dont think IG you should only get the uber sword of doom because you earned it through your actions but you may have just bought it.
2. the simplest solution to the Micro-transactions is to simply make all cash shop items buyable with in game Gold. So you can spend some RL cash and get it or you can spend alot more IG currency to get it. that way it would be fair to all. Cash shop items should be account bound and untradeable.