MMORPG subscriptions since 2004 (I can't remember what I paid prior to 2004) have been fairly consistent at $15 per month - adjusted for inflation that would now be $20.06.
So we are paying 25% less for our monthly subscription than we were with games in the past - and as long as microtransactions are cosmetic only, we have no need to pay any more than that.
Basically, we are getting a good deal here.
However, if someone does want to buy costumes, they can simply put aside the inflation adjusted amount of $20.06 every month, and put what is left after their subscription towards microtransactions. They can do this knowing full well that they are paying the exact same (adjusted for inflation) fee that MMORPG's have always charged.
I'd gladly pay $20 a month subs remove cash shops. Cash shops ruin games and game experience. I think your missing the whole point I made. Part of the whole reason most people would want a sub game or a flat fee game is to get away from cash shops.
To see more and more games trying to charge a sub fee and a cash shop or a large flat cost and cash shops its ridiculous. What's worse is it's become such a norm that people just feel it's ok.
Too many games are too easy. Too many games where you can buy advantage. Too many games where you can pay to look better than other people. I was really hoping AOC would be different.
I still like the concept of the game the ideas are amazing. I love what Steve wants to bring into games, things he experienced when he was younger and the gaming industry was different. Which while was so excited first reading about thee game and his goals when the word MT and cash shop came up my heart sank and simplifying in my mind was WHY. It contradicts so many of the things he says he wants to do.
I want a game with meaningful experience that means earning something. I'm sorry but you can spi cash shops all you want but the simple truth is whether its for game play advantage or how one looks it cheapens the experience.
***
You work really hard to earn a mount that looks great some has a pleab mount slaps a skin on it and it looks better than the mount you worked so hard for.
The dangers of working hard to get an Inn all the crafting materials, currency and such but you can get a much better looking in by spending $15.
"Hey that mount looks cool what quest line or mob did you get it from" reply "non you can get one to its selling for $20 at the cash shop if you want to make you mount look like this too."
How would any of these situations deepen our experience in the game? How does it not cheapen it.
Traditionally you look better the more work you put in cash shops just throws that out the window. You could tell who was just starting out you could see who put the extra effort in.
Then all these skins popping out left and right for pre funding at what point is it pre funding and at what extreme does it just become cash grabbing. Cash grabbing is something AOC is not supposed to be about.
You'll see me defend a lot about this game Cash Shops are most definitely not one of them.
I'd gladly pay $20 a month subs remove cash shops.
I should also point out that the games that came out in 2004 that were charging $15 a month subscription also required you to purchase the base game, as well as paying for expansions.
Every AAA MMO that I am aware of has had at least two, often three -and sometimes even four - streams of revenue. Even going back to EQ in 1999, you had to buy the game as well as pay a subscription fee.
I mean, "some games" out now have cash shops, subscription fees, require a buy in to the game AND require expansion purchases. When compared to that, having no buy-in, no paid expansions, a standard subscription fee and a 100% optional cash shop is fairly reasonable.
All I see with the way Ashes is doing things is positives. It will be the cheapest online game I've ever played - purely due to a total lack of in game vanity on my part.
With EQ releasing an expansion a year, it cost a player roughly $230 a year to play - adjusted that is $306 - or $25.65 a month. With only one revenue stream, this is the MINIMUM that we would need to pay now.
@Mytheros your condescending attitude, in addition to obvious lack of MMO experience before RMTs shows that you are very young and have not matured enough to understand where these opinions are coming from. Everyone is well aware that MMORPGs are a business, and because people don't care for certain aspects of that business plan, doesn't mean they have to totally leave a promising project. Gain some perspective and learn to express yourself with more maturity.
@T-Elf lol thank you im feeling pretty good for calling me young. But anyway ive been playing rpgs in general since the 80s. My first crpg was likely the bards tale on the c64 my first mmorpg was ultina online i pre ordered the collector's edition i was so hyped. As years spun by aion gw gw2 rift wildstar swtor tera nwn wow (not in order) outlines my mmorpg experience there were others i tried for maybe a week as well but aren't memorable...even tera and aion were terrible i have no excuse why i played those past a week. My three mainstays were gw2 for about a year swtor on and off for 4 years and wow sibce 2k5...i still dabble in wow.
I take nothing back from my comment everybit i know what im talking about. This is no back pedal or apology. Nice try kid.
I'd gladly pay $20 a month subs remove cash shops.
I should also point out that the games that came out in 2004 that were charging $15 a month subscription also required you to purchase the base game, as well as paying for expansions.
Every AAA MMO that I am aware of has had at least two, often three -and sometimes even four - streams of revenue. Even going back to EQ in 1999, you had to buy the game as well as pay a subscription fee.
I mean, "some games" out now have cash shops, subscription fees, require a buy in to the game AND require expansion purchases. When compared to that, having no buy-in, no paid expansions, a standard subscription fee and a 100% optional cash shop is fairly reasonable.
All I see with the way Ashes is doing things is positives. It will be the cheapest online game I've ever played - purely due to a total lack of in game vanity on my part.
With EQ releasing an expansion a year, it cost a player roughly $230 a year to play - adjusted that is $306 - or $25.65 a month. With only one revenue stream, this is the MINIMUM that we would need to pay now.
Yup if you read my posts I would gladly pay a higher sub or sub Plus Box if that is what is needed to keep the game going and progressing.
Bottom line I want a game where what we get in game is earned and not purchased and yes even cosmetics. How one looks has a large impact not just in a game but also in real life.
I'm sorry but there is no way around this simple truth if you can purchase something to make you, you're mount or ship look better than what you can earn in game it cheapens the experience and creates a divide in the community the people willing to or that can afford to look better than everyone else in the game not because they earned it but because they spent money to get it.
Some one who went through the efforts in game should have the appearance that dictates what they went they did to get there not how much they spent.
If I am paying a sub why should I have to pay more to gain something in a game isnt the whole point to a game, beating various stages to progress. That as you progress items look better?
It also cheapens the experience of a crafter. Traditionally if you wanted to look good in a game you had to progress in levels overcome big challenges or work to earn the cash to pay a master crafter to craft an outfit for you. So it is a form of income that will be limited to crafters if people can purchase things that look much better than what they can craft either for themselves or sell to others.
Yes other games are doing it but also it is everything that is wrong with the gaming industry today.
It's difficult to find a RPG game these days where you just play a flat one time purchase, or a MMORPG that is purely sub based because many of the Developing companies have been bought out by companies like EA, Ubisoft as well as others where they systematically stripped all that were good of those companies and turned them into Cash Grab companies.
So just because it's the norm does not make it ok quite contrary it's still very wrong.
Which is why it saddened me to learn after hearing all the great things about AOC and what their mission goal was, that it would have Cash Shops.
My reaction was a silent saddened scream in my mind WHY.
Does this make me an AOC hater far from it, I still love the concepts behind AOC it sounds like it will be a wonderful game. I'm still hopeful that Steve will hold true and not go overboard with Cash Shops. I Hope that Cash Shops items will not be better than in game items just different.
But I keep coming back to the statement he said :
Steven-07/17/2017 I understand your apprehension. The state and direction of other Mmorpg's is why I started Ashes. You don't have to agree with the pricing structure of the crowdsourcing add ons, but rest assured Ashes will never include monetization practices that require players to pay to win or stay competitive. And there will be an abundance of in game cosmetics that are achievable and rare, some on par with marketplace cosmetics
Some
This worries that just SOME items in game will be on PAR with marketplace cosmetics.
Now I think Steve is a Visionary, I think he is sincere with a lot of the things he says but he is also a very Successful business man this is a good thing but can be a bad thing as well. I hope his Inner child remains a stronger inner voice than his Inner Entrepreneur.
If the best looking gear are Items earned through game Epic Gear, Long Quest Lines, Master Crafted Items with rare matts. If items in cash shops to not superior to the way items look in game just different, it may be ok . But based on key things that have been said and past experiences it raises a red flag to this one and very important aspect to the game. I hope when the game comes out and it progresses these red flags disappear but that has to be earned and I hope he earns it.
I love every thing about what this game is proposed to be except the cash shop and for good reason.
Bottom line I want a game where what we get in game is earned and not purchased and yes even cosmetics.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that the importance you put on cosmetics puts you very much in the minority.
Literally every MMO gamer that I consider a friend cares greatly about the above quoted statement, except for the last four words.
Literally every single one of them cares that there is no advantage to be had in the cash shop, but not one of them extends that to cosmetics.
It's been 10 years since cosmetics became something that MMO developers considered an optional extra, and I can't name a single major MMO right now that doesn't offer this as an option.
Thing is, as it is purely cosmetic, it is purely optional. That is what makes it acceptable to literally every MMO player I know.
The cost I posted earlier was what we would pay today if everything went up at the same rate as inflation. Experienced MMO developer salaries and electricity have both gone up much faster than inflation over the last 15 years, and when broken down, these are the two biggest costs of an MMO. That is without factoring in the extra labor required to produce the significantly more complex games we have now ocer what we had then,
The people that care about cosmetics and would pay upwards of $30 a month for a subscription (we are at $26 without adding in the increase in power and labor costs) are actually in a position to get a new cosmetic every month and so don't need to concern themselves with it.
A player that is able to afford to play Ashes, but is unable to afford to buy any cosmetics isn't likely to be upset by this fact. If they have $15 a month to spend and absolutely no more, they will simply be glad that Ashes actually allows them to play the full game - something *LITERALLY* no other MMORPG on the market right now does.
Bottom line I want a game where what we get in game is earned and not purchased and yes even cosmetics.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that the importance you put on cosmetics puts you very much in the minority.
Literally every MMO gamer that I consider a friend cares greatly about the above quoted statement, except for the last four words.
Literally every single one of them cares that there is no advantage to be had in the cash shop, but not one of them extends that to cosmetics.
It's been 10 years since cosmetics became something that MMO developers considered an optional extra, and I can't name a single major MMO right now that doesn't offer this as an option.
Thing is, as it is purely cosmetic, it is purely optional. That is what makes it acceptable to literally every MMO player I know.
The cost I posted earlier was what we would pay today if everything went up at the same rate as inflation. Experienced MMO developer salaries and electricity have both gone up much faster than inflation over the last 15 years, and when broken down, these are the two biggest costs of an MMO. That is without factoring in the extra labor required to produce the significantly more complex games we have now ocer what we had then,
The people that care about cosmetics and would pay upwards of $30 a month for a subscription (we are at $26 without adding in the increase in power and labor costs) are actually in a position to get a new cosmetic every month and so don't need to concern themselves with it.
A player that is able to afford to play Ashes, but is unable to afford to buy any cosmetics isn't likely to be upset by this fact. If they have $15 a month to spend and absolutely no more, they will simply be glad that Ashes actually allows them to play the full game - something *LITERALLY* no other MMORPG on the market right now does.
You bring up some good points.
As far as how I view the importance of Cosmetics, I would go on a limb as well and say highly doubtful I am in the minority here whether people admit it or not. Companies would not be making tons of money off of cosmetics if I was in the Minority in how important Cosmetics are. People may say it's not important but earnings in Cosmetics in the gaming industry would speak other wise, profit margins don't deceive.
My predictions are that the Cash Shop profits for AOC at some point will far exceed what's earned via Subscriptions and this is some of the dangers I worry about as I posted previously in this thread. No one will actually know how cash shops will be handled during release until it happens or how it will be handled as the game progresses. Much of that profit could in fact be used to further develop game play or most of it could be held for profit or much of it could just be dumped into making even more skins to make even more profit. We have no way of knowing till the time comes. In most instances Cash Shops usually turns into cash grabs which AOC is marketed to not be. I really hope that AOC is the exception but trust and faith in this aspect of the game will have to be earned with results for me personally.
But the bottom line I stated was and this is a personal viewpoint as I can't speak for others. I would prefer to be in a game where things are earned over being bought. Earning things gives meaningfulness buying things removes game value and cheapens the experience. Where is pride of accomplishment in purchasing something in a cash shop vrs earning it through effort. This is the fundamental thing that has been lacking in most of the games that are out right now. Whether its PTW or Cosmetics or both so many games use Cash Shop with the the buy over effort mentality and in most situation almost always turns into a cash grab.
It's pretty obvious that the Cash Shop is in the game and will most likely stay though out. All I can hope for is that In game items will not be over shadowed by cash shop items that a good portion of the profit earned is in fact used for further development.
Only time will tell, till then I am thankful we have the freedom to post our feelings freely as long as we are respectful to each other, that definitely garnishes much respect and hope.
No one will actually know how cash shops will be handled during release until it happens or how it will be handled as the game progresses. Much of that profit could in fact be used to further develop game play or most of it could be held for profit or much of it could just be dumped into making even more skins to make even more profit.
This is technically true, but I feel it important to point out one thing.
Intrepid is a privately held company, as opposed to a listed company. This means that Steven owns the company, and need answer to no one but himself. He has no board of directors watching over him, and no shareholders demanding a specific level of profit.
I guess how happy you are with this depends on your views on listed companies, and whether you think people owning a company (or portion thereof) that don't actually care about the product past the profit it makes is a good thing or a bad thing for the product in question.
In my mind, a company owned by someone that loves the genre that their product fits in to is far more likely as a company to put the quality of the product first.
No one will actually know how cash shops will be handled during release until it happens or how it will be handled as the game progresses. Much of that profit could in fact be used to further develop game play or most of it could be held for profit or much of it could just be dumped into making even more skins to make even more profit.
This is technically true, but I feel it important to point out one thing.
Intrepid is a privately held company, as opposed to a listed company. This means that Steven owns the company, and need answer to no one but himself. He has no board of directors watching over him, and no shareholders demanding a specific level of profit.
I guess how happy you are with this depends on your views on listed companies, and whether you think people owning a company (or portion thereof) that don't actually care about the product past the profit it makes is a good thing or a bad thing for the product in question.
In my mind, a company owned by someone that loves the genre that their product fits in to is far more likely as a company to put the quality of the product first.
I actually have a lot of respect for Steven while I don't agree with the decision to put Microtransactions in the game but I do have faith in him, it's cash shops I don't trust. If I still didn't have faith in the game as a whole or the great majority of what Steven is about, I would not still be here.
I definitely love the forums and community here the true freedom of speech which is practically non existent in most game forums, no over moderation. There is a lot to love about the game and the community.
So why can't crafters make costumes? why can't breeders develop skins for mounts and pets? Other ways of obtaining cosmetics could be drop items as loot or recipes. Why do we really need a Cash Shop? I would love for all the goodies to be obtained in game with a subscription.
Cause the greed... Humans are greedy, so even if they have 10$(?)/month/player guarantated income, they still want more...
So why can't crafters make costumes? why can't breeders develop skins for mounts and pets? Other ways of obtaining cosmetics could be drop items as loot or recipes. Why do we really need a Cash Shop? I would love for all the goodies to be obtained in game with a subscription.
Cause the greed... Humans are greedy, so even if they have 10$(?)/month/player guarantated income, they still want more...
Micro transactions need to die all together. Games can implement a dye system and you can paint your gear if you really wanted too. If you want a unicorn helm then you could just craft one. Why pay for aditional things i really never understood it. Im just glad we can all discuss our views.
I like collecting, and I want everything, but I really hope it wont be $115.00/month like it is now for these monthly skins that have been released from December til July so far ($130.00/mo. total with the $15.00/mo. subscription). Winning = having all possible skins. So this cash shop is P2W in that respect.
as long as you can clearly differentiat between someone who investet a lot of time in his asthetics and someone who just bought them, I´m fine with a skin shop
but if you can get the "respect" you get from a legendary armor by simply buying a skin that looks alike ... that would be lame
Haven't we had it confirmed via love stream that cosmetics in game will rival any purchased cosmetics? This may be of concern for people saying "well why even have a shop then?"
I know a purchased cosmetic is only appealing as so far as it is unique in someway. However, if you can obtain a skin on par with it just by playing, who will buy the one in the shop?
Lazy people.
You will never lose betting on human laziness.
This is, in my opinion, why the shop exists in Ashes. They already stated good cosmetics will be obtained in game. But there are always people with more money than time/motivation.
Is it a slippery slope. Hell yes. But I'd they deliver in said promise of equal cosmetics in game, Im ok with said cash shop existing.
Ofcourse paying an x amount of money for supporting the game should benefit in unique items.
I mean players that purchase stuff now are taking a risk, they don’t even know how stuff is gonne look ingame. It is partially supporting the game and having items not others can have that came later on to the game giving zero support. The items that are purchased are nothing else then cosmetic that are obtainable in the game just looks different.
If you want ashes to deliver an near perfect game then instead of whining people should support them in many possible ways.
You know its Comments & Threads like these that makes me wodner if anyone hear remembers what its like to Play an MMORPG without a Cash Shop. Seriously, Games aren't about buying everything - they're about earning & playing through the Game via everything being earned and not bought from a Store. Honestly, once a cash shop is implemented, you'll find outrageous excuses of why ... " its okay to have a cash shop " Then you'll start seeing other ridiculous reasoning(s) later if things get suspicious - so for the last f!cking time " @everyone " ... stop supporting cash shops ... its utter cringe. Regardless of how you look at it .... its still a MTX for Cosmetics
Whatever, just don't be surprised if Pantheon ( or any other MMORPG without a cash shop ) does better than this MMORPG solely because Pantheon doesn't plan on having a Cash Shop
But hey ... at this least this link keeps me neutral https://youtu.be/eCvcB4S-tZM?t=49m45s ... via it'll be " cash shop cosmetics will be on par with in-game cosmetics "
You know its Comments & Threads like these that makes me wodner if anyone hear remembers what its like to Play an MMORPG without a Cash Shop. Seriously, Games aren't about buying everything - they're about earning & playing through the Game via everything being earned and not bought from a Store. Honestly, once a cash shop is implemented, you'll find outrageous excuses of why ... " its okay to have a cash shop " Then you'll start seeing other ridiculous reasoning(s) later if things get suspicious - so for the last f!cking time " @everyone " ... stop supporting cash shops ... its utter cringe. Regardless of how you look at it .... its still a MTX for Cosmetics
Whatever, just don't be surprised if Pantheon ( or any other MMORPG without a cash shop ) does better than this MMORPG solely because Pantheon doesn't plan on having a Cash Shop
But hey ... at this least this link keeps me neutral https://youtu.be/eCvcB4S-tZM?t=49m45s ... via it'll be " cash shop cosmetics will be on par with in-game cosmetics "
As long as the cash shop wont offer any sort of p2w I'm okay with it, but thinking that an mmo might be worse than others because it will have a cash shop is a bit of an exaggeration, well it's all opinion in the end and the devs know better regardless
The latest statement we have is that there wont be even stuff that is considered "p2convenience". Steven was asked and very clearly answered that there won't be exp potions or scrolls or anything else that some people argue are not p2w. No wiggle room. Cosmetics, that is it.
I'm currently in the "meh" camp. I generally hate cash shops, but that is mostly due to the whole P2W element that 90% of all cash shop games fall into. IF Intrepid actually can make a proper cash shop, without P2W, then I think it is fine. It adds flavor to the game, helps the devs financially, and does not hurt the game balance. What's to hate? One of the few games that do this right, is Dota 2. ALL they have is pure cosmetics. And they sell in buckets, so it can definitely work
@SaintJ and its going to be very clear of the result of this cash shop later-on too .
And you missed the whole point of it - thats how every cash shop starts ... at first its (usually) okay, but then it likely always turns into something ugly a few years later
@SaintJ and its going to be very clear of the result of this cash shop later-on too .
And you missed the whole point of it - thats how every cash shop starts ... at first its (usually) okay, but then it likely always turns into something ugly a few years later
You cant say every cash shop in a game mostly ends up being same when it's usually different people in charge of making them. Take for example Path of the Exile that has been out for around 5 years now, the cash shop amounts to cosmetics and some stash capacity for different things thats all. Have some more faith in the devs instead of worrying how it will be doomed from the start.
People see a feature they dislike in a game that's otherwise full of other features they love and they automatically want to fix it. But they can't fix it because they don't get a vote on how the company operates. So instead they try to explain why it can do more harm than good in their view.
for a real-life example, I think it's like when someone dislikes something about how their government is doing something so they protest and try to explain why it's wrong in their view. it's Because they can't just outright fix it. They still love their country, and most can't just pick up everything and move. Or simply have nowhere to move to because even with that disliked feature that country is still better than whats out there. But they still want to try and fix it because they want it to be better.
Back to the game. Most don't do it just because they want to whine and complain, they do it because they see how great the game is and in their eyes,
it would be better without that feature they dislike, not because it's bad with it. This applies to some of the PvE/ PVP posters out there as well.
it's true intrepid has already made a decision about this but who knows maybe something can change down the road with some civilized conversation. Like everything in real life.
On your other point, I don't think that just because all the cool guys are doing it. it becomes automatically a good thing or even ok.
Comments
To see more and more games trying to charge a sub fee and a cash shop or a large flat cost and cash shops its ridiculous. What's worse is it's become such a norm that people just feel it's ok.
Too many games are too easy. Too many games where you can buy advantage. Too many games where you can pay to look better than other people. I was really hoping AOC would be different.
I still like the concept of the game the ideas are amazing. I love what Steve wants to bring into games, things he experienced when he was younger and the gaming industry was different. Which while was so excited first reading about thee game and his goals when the word MT and cash shop came up my heart sank and simplifying in my mind was WHY. It contradicts so many of the things he says he wants to do.
I want a game with meaningful experience that means earning something. I'm sorry but you can spi cash shops all you want but the simple truth is whether its for game play advantage or how one looks it cheapens the experience.
***
You work really hard to earn a mount that looks great some has a pleab mount slaps a skin on it and it looks better than the mount you worked so hard for.
The dangers of working hard to get an Inn all the crafting materials, currency and such but you can get a much better looking in by spending $15.
"Hey that mount looks cool what quest line or mob did you get it from" reply "non you can get one to its selling for $20 at the cash shop if you want to make you mount look like this too."
How would any of these situations deepen our experience in the game? How does it not cheapen it.
Traditionally you look better the more work you put in cash shops just throws that out the window. You could tell who was just starting out you could see who put the extra effort in.
Then all these skins popping out left and right for pre funding at what point is it pre funding and at what extreme does it just become cash grabbing. Cash grabbing is something AOC is not supposed to be about.
You'll see me defend a lot about this game Cash Shops are most definitely not one of them.
Every AAA MMO that I am aware of has had at least two, often three -and sometimes even four - streams of revenue. Even going back to EQ in 1999, you had to buy the game as well as pay a subscription fee.
I mean, "some games" out now have cash shops, subscription fees, require a buy in to the game AND require expansion purchases. When compared to that, having no buy-in, no paid expansions, a standard subscription fee and a 100% optional cash shop is fairly reasonable.
All I see with the way Ashes is doing things is positives. It will be the cheapest online game I've ever played - purely due to a total lack of in game vanity on my part.
With EQ releasing an expansion a year, it cost a player roughly $230 a year to play - adjusted that is $306 - or $25.65 a month. With only one revenue stream, this is the MINIMUM that we would need to pay now.
Bottom line I want a game where what we get in game is earned and not purchased and yes even cosmetics. How one looks has a large impact not just in a game but also in real life.
I'm sorry but there is no way around this simple truth if you can purchase something to make you, you're mount or ship look better than what you can earn in game it cheapens the experience and creates a divide in the community the people willing to or that can afford to look better than everyone else in the game not because they earned it but because they spent money to get it.
Some one who went through the efforts in game should have the appearance that dictates what they went they did to get there not how much they spent.
If I am paying a sub why should I have to pay more to gain something in a game isnt the whole point to a game, beating various stages to progress. That as you progress items look better?
It also cheapens the experience of a crafter. Traditionally if you wanted to look good in a game you had to progress in levels overcome big challenges or work to earn the cash to pay a master crafter to craft an outfit for you. So it is a form of income that will be limited to crafters if people can purchase things that look much better than what they can craft either for themselves or sell to others.
Yes other games are doing it but also it is everything that is wrong with the gaming industry today.
It's difficult to find a RPG game these days where you just play a flat one time purchase, or a MMORPG that is purely sub based because many of the Developing companies have been bought out by companies like EA, Ubisoft as well as others where they systematically stripped all that were good of those companies and turned them into Cash Grab companies.
So just because it's the norm does not make it ok quite contrary it's still very wrong.
Which is why it saddened me to learn after hearing all the great things about AOC and what their mission goal was, that it would have Cash Shops.
My reaction was a silent saddened scream in my mind WHY.
Does this make me an AOC hater far from it, I still love the concepts behind AOC it sounds like it will be a wonderful game. I'm still hopeful that Steve will hold true and not go overboard with Cash Shops. I Hope that Cash Shops items will not be better than in game items just different.
But I keep coming back to the statement he said :
I understand your apprehension. The state and direction of other Mmorpg's is why I started Ashes. You don't have to agree with the pricing structure of the crowdsourcing add ons, but rest assured Ashes will never include monetization practices that require players to pay to win or stay competitive. And there will be an abundance of in game cosmetics that are achievable and rare, some on par with marketplace cosmetics
Some
This worries that just SOME items in game will be on PAR with marketplace cosmetics.
Now I think Steve is a Visionary, I think he is sincere with a lot of the things he says but he is also a very Successful business man this is a good thing but can be a bad thing as well. I hope his Inner child remains a stronger inner voice than his Inner Entrepreneur.
If the best looking gear are Items earned through game Epic Gear, Long Quest Lines, Master Crafted Items with rare matts. If items in cash shops to not superior to the way items look in game just different, it may be ok . But based on key things that have been said and past experiences it raises a red flag to this one and very important aspect to the game. I hope when the game comes out and it progresses these red flags disappear but that has to be earned and I hope he earns it.
I love every thing about what this game is proposed to be except the cash shop and for good reason.
Literally every MMO gamer that I consider a friend cares greatly about the above quoted statement, except for the last four words.
Literally every single one of them cares that there is no advantage to be had in the cash shop, but not one of them extends that to cosmetics.
It's been 10 years since cosmetics became something that MMO developers considered an optional extra, and I can't name a single major MMO right now that doesn't offer this as an option.
Thing is, as it is purely cosmetic, it is purely optional. That is what makes it acceptable to literally every MMO player I know.
The cost I posted earlier was what we would pay today if everything went up at the same rate as inflation. Experienced MMO developer salaries and electricity have both gone up much faster than inflation over the last 15 years, and when broken down, these are the two biggest costs of an MMO. That is without factoring in the extra labor required to produce the significantly more complex games we have now ocer what we had then,
The people that care about cosmetics and would pay upwards of $30 a month for a subscription (we are at $26 without adding in the increase in power and labor costs) are actually in a position to get a new cosmetic every month and so don't need to concern themselves with it.
A player that is able to afford to play Ashes, but is unable to afford to buy any cosmetics isn't likely to be upset by this fact. If they have $15 a month to spend and absolutely no more, they will simply be glad that Ashes actually allows them to play the full game - something *LITERALLY* no other MMORPG on the market right now does.
As far as how I view the importance of Cosmetics, I would go on a limb as well and say highly doubtful I am in the minority here whether people admit it or not. Companies would not be making tons of money off of cosmetics if I was in the Minority in how important Cosmetics are. People may say it's not important but earnings in Cosmetics in the gaming industry would speak other wise, profit margins don't deceive.
My predictions are that the Cash Shop profits for AOC at some point will far exceed what's earned via Subscriptions and this is some of the dangers I worry about as I posted previously in this thread. No one will actually know how cash shops will be handled during release until it happens or how it will be handled as the game progresses. Much of that profit could in fact be used to further develop game play or most of it could be held for profit or much of it could just be dumped into making even more skins to make even more profit. We have no way of knowing till the time comes. In most instances Cash Shops usually turns into cash grabs which AOC is marketed to not be. I really hope that AOC is the exception but trust and faith in this aspect of the game will have to be earned with results for me personally.
But the bottom line I stated was and this is a personal viewpoint as I can't speak for others. I would prefer to be in a game where things are earned over being bought. Earning things gives meaningfulness buying things removes game value and cheapens the experience. Where is pride of accomplishment in purchasing something in a cash shop vrs earning it through effort. This is the fundamental thing that has been lacking in most of the games that are out right now. Whether its PTW or Cosmetics or both so many games use Cash Shop with the the buy over effort mentality and in most situation almost always turns into a cash grab.
It's pretty obvious that the Cash Shop is in the game and will most likely stay though out. All I can hope for is that In game items will not be over shadowed by cash shop items that a good portion of the profit earned is in fact used for further development.
Only time will tell, till then I am thankful we have the freedom to post our feelings freely as long as we are respectful to each other, that definitely garnishes much respect and hope.
Intrepid is a privately held company, as opposed to a listed company. This means that Steven owns the company, and need answer to no one but himself. He has no board of directors watching over him, and no shareholders demanding a specific level of profit.
I guess how happy you are with this depends on your views on listed companies, and whether you think people owning a company (or portion thereof) that don't actually care about the product past the profit it makes is a good thing or a bad thing for the product in question.
In my mind, a company owned by someone that loves the genre that their product fits in to is far more likely as a company to put the quality of the product first.
I definitely love the forums and community here the true freedom of speech which is practically non existent in most game forums, no over moderation. There is a lot to love about the game and the community.
A nice respectful dialog TY
Cause the greed...
Humans are greedy, so even if they have 10$(?)/month/player guarantated income, they still want more...
but if you can get the "respect" you get from a legendary armor by simply buying a skin that looks alike ... that would be lame
I know a purchased cosmetic is only appealing as so far as it is unique in someway. However, if you can obtain a skin on par with it just by playing, who will buy the one in the shop?
Lazy people.
You will never lose betting on human laziness.
This is, in my opinion, why the shop exists in Ashes. They already stated good cosmetics will be obtained in game. But there are always people with more money than time/motivation.
Is it a slippery slope. Hell yes. But I'd they deliver in said promise of equal cosmetics in game, Im ok with said cash shop existing.
I mean players that purchase stuff now are taking a risk, they don’t even know how stuff is gonne look ingame.
It is partially supporting the game and having items not others can have that came later on to the game giving zero support.
The items that are purchased are nothing else then cosmetic that are obtainable in the game just looks different.
If you want ashes to deliver an near perfect game then instead of whining people should support them in many possible ways.
Then you'll start seeing other ridiculous reasoning(s) later if things get suspicious - so for the last f!cking time " @everyone " ... stop supporting cash shops ... its utter cringe. Regardless of how you look at it .... its still a MTX for Cosmetics
Whatever, just don't be surprised if Pantheon ( or any other MMORPG without a cash shop ) does better than this MMORPG solely because Pantheon doesn't plan on having a Cash Shop
But hey ... at this least this link keeps me neutral https://youtu.be/eCvcB4S-tZM?t=49m45s ... via it'll be " cash shop cosmetics will be on par with in-game cosmetics "
And you missed the whole point of it - thats how every cash shop starts ... at first its (usually) okay, but then it likely always turns into something ugly a few years later
Ashes will have a subscription fee and a cosmetic only cash shop.
World of Warcraft has a subscription fee, a cosmetic cash shop, AND requires expansion purchases.
ESO has a subscription fee, and a has a NON-cosmetics only cash shop.
https://youtu.be/Kg3bE0b0UR8?t=4m50s
@AutumnLeaf