How to stop public 'toxic' in game game chat?

ArchivedUser

the biggest way to stop trolling and all around toxic people is just to ignore them. if no one even acknowledged them, they would find another way to get people's attention.

mute would work, or an ignore list, but i find those fill up rather quickly just from blocking goldsellers -.-;

ArchivedUser

Here is hoping ignore list doesn't have a cap.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Here is hoping ignore list doesn't have a cap.

See even radical opposites can agree on certain topics.

ArchivedUser

If servers really are community based, toxicity is usually less. The most toxic games are things like Mobas or TF2 type games. Where the community as a whole might be quite big, but the chances of running into the same players a few times in a row is rather slim.

In a more closed down world/system. Your actions reflect on you. If you become known as someone who is simply toxic, and dis-pleasant, the playerbase itself will rise up against you.

But there will be GM's and a report button would work fine imho. If someone gets a lot of reports in a short amount of time, it's not a waste of resources for a GM to look into it. Timestamp+logs make it easy to track down.

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

If servers really are community based, toxicity is usually less. The most toxic games are things like Mobas or TF2 type games. Where the community as a whole might be quite big, but the chances of running into the same players a few times in a row is rather slim.

In a more closed down world/system. Your actions reflect on you. If you become known as someone who is simply toxic, and dis-pleasant, the playerbase itself will rise up against you.

But there will be GM's and a report button would work fine imho. If someone gets a lot of reports in a short amount of time, it's not a waste of resources for a GM to look into it. Timestamp+logs make it easy to track down.

THANK YOU. I was tired as all get out last night and I wanted to try to voice this, but all I heard was my kids moana music playing over and over in my head from the days attempts at keeping her busy. The community aspect will make this MUCH easier, because there will be consequences to being a troll in your own backyard. There is, however, an aspect that if you travel a bit, im looking at the planned thieves, then being a troll might be easier as its a part of their 'character'. 

Thoughts?

ArchivedUser

Mmmm, good point, if chat is planned on being localised to nodes only with no global chat, you're right that individuals being a douche will be more likely to go under the radar of the community as a whole, however, what about automatic reports that get sent to mods if the number of mutes of individuals hits a certain number... mods able to review a players chat log could then suggest the individual amend behaviour if they are rule breaking?

But I'm not the world's biggest fan of only muting, the toxicity is still there, it's just then only players new to the world that get hit with it all in one go when they first log in...

ArchivedUser

Dacormic said:

Ariatras said:

If servers really are community based, toxicity is usually less. The most toxic games are things like Mobas or TF2 type games. Where the community as a whole might be quite big, but the chances of running into the same players a few times in a row is rather slim.

In a more closed down world/system. Your actions reflect on you. If you become known as someone who is simply toxic, and dis-pleasant, the playerbase itself will rise up against you.

But there will be GM's and a report button would work fine imho. If someone gets a lot of reports in a short amount of time, it's not a waste of resources for a GM to look into it. Timestamp+logs make it easy to track down.

THANK YOU. I was tired as all get out last night and I wanted to try to voice this, but all I heard was my kids moana music playing over and over in my head from the days attempts at keeping her busy. The community aspect will make this MUCH easier, because there will be consequences to being a troll in your own backyard. There is, however, an aspect that if you travel a bit, im looking at the planned thieves, then being a troll might be easier as its a part of their 'character'. 

Thoughts?

On the issue of thieves. The idea of a thief is not to get caught, thief isn't necessarily a class. For example, I could be a thief as a Summoner.

Just make it a little interactive, if someone gets caught stealing, in any world, they'd be executed or put in jail. Here, you get put on a player's watch list. Node A might know you're a thief, but Node B does not, and why would Node A care if you steal from Node B? 

I'm also hoping that covering ones face might stop people from recognising you. Or any guards, at the very least.

ArchivedUser

Node A might in fact encourage it's citizens to steal from node B as that city is direct competition, either economical or outright war.

ArchivedUser

I'm going to suggest that being a thief or any other in game activity, shouldn't really change how public chat is conducted.... though I might be missing something...

ArchivedUser

Megs said:

But I'm not the world's biggest fan of only muting, the toxicity is still there, it's just then only players new to the world that get hit with it all in one go when they first log in...

This. I cant say its anything less then idealistic, but only muting doesnt solve the problem, it just brushes it under the rug. butttttttt.... solving the problem...... not enough gnomes to feed the troll bridges

ArchivedUser

Megs said:

I'm going to suggest that being a thief or any other in game activity, shouldn't really change how public chat is conducted.... though I might be missing something...

@Megs if they are thieves they will be stealing from nodes that are not their own, meaning not near their local community. aka, okay to flame be a troll because its not their backyard.

ArchivedUser

I can't say that I'm convinced that a change in someone's game location will make any difference to their verbal communications, but I could be very wrong.
So is there any way you would suggest to prevent 'visitors' flaming or spamming chat? 

I have to suggest that this is a potential problem that is unlikely to be addressed in a stand alone way, largely because it would most probably result in negative consequences for those travelling to different nodes for legitimate reasons....ie caravan transport, Just new to the area and needing directions / information...

ArchivedUser

Maybe you would not be allowed to speak in area chats (not global, but zone chats that was hinted at) unless you have spent so much time there? Not sure, but if you are traveling there on business you would not need that, yeah?

ArchivedUser

Not being able to speak in another nodes regional chats seems fair enough. 

There is one exception I can think of. And it's all player driven.

Say I'm a trader, I live in Node A. 
The products I obtain in Node A are needed in Node B. I travel there, to sell my goods. Eventually people may start to recognise me, and give me a sort of citizen pass (I can't think of a name, so bare with it, please).
I can now advertise my services in Node B.
Should I choose to abuse this privilege, the mayor of said Node (Or one of his underlings, depending on how deep the system is) can rescind the citizens pass. Making me unable to speak or indeed read the channel once again.

This can also apply to thievery. If a thief from Node A is caught stealing from Node B, the mayor can revoke the Thief's visitors rights, which makes the guards become hostile towards the thief.

If a mayor sets no visitors as a default, just to be safe, his city will suffer, as he will be without trade. Which is why I hope, no nodes has natural access to all resources.

ArchivedUser

At first I was shaking my head no because I thought that just meant we are giving power to the 'mayors', but the more I think on it this would be a good fix too. I believe that small group dynamics will change the way people 'rule' a node. If the guy in charge is making bogus calls, that node will suffer. 

Also, they have already said they each node will be different, so heres to hoping you are correct and that each node will be forced to interact with others! That would literally kill the game for me if I could be self sufficient. If I could, I would because lets face it, I code with computers and play with dirt because people are mean to each other.

ArchivedUser

I have seen this cropping up in a couple different posts being talked about by people and maybe I am misunderstanding their intentions. Thievery like pickpocketing, stealing from other player characters and stalls has been mentioned a few different times as not being in game. If they are talking about caravan raiding, that is a planned mechanic with it's own safeguards in place.
If they are talking about people travelling to other nodes to get resources, then it is up to the populace of the affected node to stop that behavior. @Ariatras no node will have natural access to all resources. The way it has been explained is that resources will spawn in the world, be able to be gathered, then will despawn and reappear in a totally random location in the game map. Not the node map, the whole game map. So while a node may have a kickass silver node that everyone is mining as quick as they can before it runs out, once it is gone, it will poof and reappear somewhere else. Maybe next door, maybe across the game map. If you are thinking of games like WOW where you would run to a copper node...give it a few whacks, then run on to the next, rinse/repeat to only come back to the original node you had first mined 5 minutes earlier to start the whole loop again, you are in for a surprise.

ArchivedUser

Dacormic said:

At first I was shaking my head no because I thought that just meant we are giving power to the 'mayors', but the more I think on it this would be a good fix too. I believe that small group dynamics will change the way people 'rule' a node. If the guy in charge is making bogus calls, that node will suffer. 

Also, they have already said they each node will be different, so heres to hoping you are correct and that each node will be forced to interact with others! That would literally kill the game for me if I could be self sufficient. If I could, I would because lets face it, I code with computers and play with dirt because people are mean to each other.

Giving power to a mayor isn't necessarily a bad thing, is it? Considering a populace chooses the mayor. And the nodes that don't. People accept the risk of living in a sort of dictatorship.

I was just mentioning it as a possible solution. One I would find cool and intriguing.

UnknownSystemError said:

I have seen this cropping up in a couple different posts being talked about by people and maybe I am misunderstanding their intentions. Thievery like pickpocketing, stealing from other player characters and stalls has been mentioned a few different times as not being in game. If they are talking about caravan raiding, that is a planned mechanic with it's own safeguards in place.
If they are talking about people travelling to other nodes to get resources, then it is up to the populace of the affected node to stop that behavior. @Ariatras no node will have natural access to all resources. The way it has been explained is that resources will spawn in the world, be able to be gathered, then will despawn and reappear in a totally random location in the game map. Not the node map, the whole game map. So while a node may have a kickass silver node that everyone is mining as quick as they can before it runs out, once it is gone, it will poof and reappear somewhere else. Maybe next door, maybe across the game map. If you are thinking of games like WOW where you would run to a copper node...give it a few whacks, then run on to the next, rinse/repeat to only come back to the original node you had first mined 5 minutes earlier to start the whole loop again, you are in for a surprise.

Thievery isn't in the game, you're right, I forgot that was mentioned. But the game itself would lend itself well to it being in, possible expansion, perhaps.

Also, I didn't think for a second it would be like WoW.

Resources are more than just mineral nodes. There's also herbs and stuff.

Some herbs may only grow in desert areas, others in snow ones.
What I was trying to convey is that.

Node A, located North of the map, simply by geographical location does not have access to certain resources, just like other nodes don't. If stuff just spawns at random, as you suggest, trading isn't really required, chances are, it'll spawn in your node before long. 

ArchivedUser

Each node type has a different mechanic for choosing their mayor/king/insert title. Military nodes is through a pvp event (more details to come), Scientific is through the old democratic voting by citizens. Economic is by who bids the most, have the most scratch, you get to be mayor. Religious is through having the highest ranking via the Religion service quest ranking (more details to come). So while you may not like what the guy in your military node is doing, the only way to depose him will be to actively pvp him out of the rankings. Economic, make sure you have more money, and so on.

edit: "Thievery isn't in the game, you're right, I forgot that was mentioned. But the game itself would lend itself well to it being in, possible expansion, perhaps.

Also, I didn't think for a second it would be like WoW.

Resources are more than just mineral nodes. There's also herbs and stuff.

Some herbs may only grow in desert areas, others in snow ones.
What I was trying to convey is that.

Node A, located North of the map, simply by geographical location does not have access to certain resources, just like other nodes don't. If stuff just spawns at random, as you suggest, trading isn't really required, chances are, it'll spawn in your node before long." 

Yep, they very well could add it further down the line. Be a couple years after live launch I would imagine. Sort of like how long it took ESO to add it.

Until we get more info we have very limited Jeffrey statement to go off of on resource clumping, but I agree. They did mention that certain crops would only grow in the underground, so maybe we will see geographic resource clumping both above and below ground, and underwater, since that content was unlocked during stretch goals.

ArchivedUser

Oh, that works! I am still catching up on info from after I gave them all my money ^.^

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

I have seen this cropping up in a couple different posts being talked about by people and maybe I am misunderstanding their intentions. Thievery like pickpocketing, stealing from other player characters and stalls has been mentioned a few different times as not being in game. If they are talking about caravan raiding, that is a planned mechanic with it's own safeguards in place.

I was talking more about when people pvp you and take stuff In any event, whatever kind of 'thievery' is made allowed, it will happen. There are just those kinds of people ALL OVER MMO's.

ArchivedUser

Limiting chat to only the home node would be discrimination of travelers and explorers, and placing players that will not travel much but focus on staying in one place at unfairly better position.

Limiting chat and censure of any kind just reeks of dictatorship regimes and should not in any way be implemented into Ashes of Creation.

ArchivedUser

One thing is for sure,  if you don't feed the trolls they will starve.  Totally ignore them and do not respond.  As much as you would like to reach out and duct tape their fingers to their butt holes don't do it.  

On a serious note. I would love to see that when a person is ignored by "X" number of people they are automatically unable to join a group those people are in.  Eventually they might actually feel their isolation.

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

On a serious note. I would love to see that when a person is ignored by "X" number of people they are automatically unable to join a group those people are in.  Eventually they might actually feel their isolation.

As long as people wouldn't abuse it and mass ignore PvP players for just playing the game and attacking them, rather then using it only against chat trolls.

Guild alliances might also abuse this to prevent people from opposing guilds join public groups in mass world events.

These are just 2 examples I can think of. Might be more out there.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

CylverRayne said:

On a serious note. I would love to see that when a person is ignored by "X" number of people they are automatically unable to join a group those people are in.  Eventually they might actually feel their isolation.

As long as people wouldn't abuse it and mass ignore PvP players for just playing the game and attacking them, rather then using it only against chat trolls.

Guild alliances might also abuse this to prevent people from opposing guilds join public groups in mass world events.

These are just 2 examples I can think of. Might be more out there.

Yes,  after I posted that I also thought of how it could be exploited.  You made valid points.   

ArchivedUser

Any sort of automated system contrived is privy to being exploited.

ArchivedUser

If all people are corruptible and giving power to them wont solve it, and if automated systems are exploitable.... I think I am becoming a believer in just ignoring people. Literally everything I can think of falls into the categories or individuals having the power to handle it, or an automated system. 

I guess I will just leave it at "When the cops get bigger guns, the robbers get bigger'er guns."

EDIT::: typo, and spelling error

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

One thing is for sure,  if you don't feed the trolls they will starve.  Totally ignore them and do not respond.  As much as you would like to reach out and duct tape their fingers to their butt holes don't do it.  

On a serious note. I would love to see that when a person is ignored by "X" number of people they are automatically unable to join a group those people are in.  Eventually they might actually feel their isolation.

@Gothix already explained the issues with this, but my personal issue with the idea is simply that toxicity is in the eye of the beholder. Saying "Listen, you really should practice more with your class." is enough to set some people off.

Dacormic said:

Maybe you would not be allowed to speak in area chats (not global, but zone chats that was hinted at) unless you have spent so much time there? Not sure, but if you are traveling there on business you would not need that, yeah?

Disabling chat for people who haven't done anything wrong at all seems a bit unfair. It also damages the game, disabled chat was what initially turned me off WoW during the free trial.

ArchivedUser

Many people can be set off by different words, but I believe we can all agree that racism, insults towards family and friends, insulting dead relatives or in general insults or offensive words have no place in public chats.

I'll make a world chat simulation to make my point a bit clearer.

Case 1: Toxic

[World]xXBestMageXx: OMG, I got a legendary!
[World]l33tPvPerPRO: S**k it you RNG carried inbred!

Case 2: Toxic

<Server wide notification> "Gandalf156 succeded in enchanting Epic Silver Staff to level 20" (assuming 20 is max)

[World]l33tPROWarrior: P2W cuck!
[World]RandomChild: P2W!
the masses follow..
[World]Bilbo: P2W!!
[World]Kirito: Credit card opennn!!!

Case 3: Proper human behavior

[World]HomerSimpson: Wow, I just dropped <insert name of best in slot armor>!
[World]Obama: Omg, gratz!
[World]DonaldDuck: Wow, nice!
[World]Kirito420: gz

ArchivedUser

@FliP You nailed  it!

ArchivedUser

Just for balance sake I'll add 2 more toxic examples:

Case 1: Toxic

[World] PvPJohn: Yay! I just collected 1000 kills achievement!
[World] ProCrafter: S**k it as****e, go die in pain!

Case 2: Toxic

[World] LeetWarrior: Hey guys, where do I find arena in here?
[World] Gatherer4Life: Where your mama found lots of *****!

There.