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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
What is left of the game for a PvE player?
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Comments
Same as in real life if I am attacked while walking down the street or walking my dog in a public park.
Just because PvPers typically don't ask for consent does not mean I am not being griefed. Everyone understands that hardcore PvPers think it's OK to attack people minding their own business without asking permission. Which is why such people are typically segregated to their own servers. And why those servers typically have a comparatively low population.
It's also why very few MMORPGs have FFA PvP combat as general gameplay.
What you suspect is irrelevant.
I use consent in a game that allows PvP to happen, just as I use consent in a marriage that allows sex to happen. Yes.
I don't really care whether you can attack me more if we are the same level because of your personal desired limit of accrued Corruption. That is insiginifcant.
What is significant is whether the Corruption mechanic successfully prevents the game from being a "murderbox" based on the target population numbers expected by the devs.
How'd you know what I have been doing? Are you watching me?
There are areas where PvP brings zero corruption. These areas are designated for anything goes PvP. Are people not mature enough to exercise self control any more ? Has the virtual blood lust become so all encompassing that you force the devs to make the decision for you ?
If it's possible to do mechanically and you won't be banned for exploiting, it's perfectly OK to do.
Which is why MMORPGs typically had segregated servers.
Lots of people play MMORPGs as if it's an MMOFPS.
There is likely to be a major conflict of interest and major frustration along the entire PvP spectrum when the people who wish to focus on FPS elements are playing on the same server as the people wish to focus on the RPG elements.
If you log in to the game, knowing full well open PvP is a thing, you are giving consent to being attacked whether you flag for it or not.
Corruption is a fairly important mechanic in Ashes, and it can ONLY be gained by attacking and killing players that chose to not flag for PvP, even when attacked.
Thus it stands to absolute reason that the very thing you are complaining about - being attacked while minding your own business - is a core aspect of Ashes.
Where you and I do totally agree, however, is in the fact that the important thing to consider here is the frequency that this happens.
If it happens once or twice a week, all it is effectively doing is providing a sense of risk to otherwise mundane activities. In my mind, this is an absolute positive.
If it happens once or twice a day, I can see more casual players that perhaps don't have the time to invest in the game getting upset. It is at this point I'd start to look at it as a negative.
However, as I've been saying for a while, the corruption system is designed with built in levers to help Intrepid control these things. No one can predict how players will react to a given mechanic, but if you put levers in place to fine tune the details of that mechanic, you can adjust them to get the behavior you want.
TL:DR, the game is designed with players attacking each other at inconvenient times as a core principle that other mechanics - and even buildible town structures - are built upon. Logging in to the game means accepting that.
I dont understand how people see corruption as a PvP endorsement.
The purpose of the corruption system is to control the level of grey.
Or, in other words, to prevent Ashes from being a murderbox.
The game is designed such that players attacking each other at inconvenient times is possible, but minimized.
Steven does not want Ashes to be a murderbox.
If Ashes feels like it's too much of a murderbox, I will stop logging in and leave the game for those who enjoy murdeboxes to revel in their fun.
And we will have to see if that few people feel the same or a significant number of people feel the same, thereby causing the devs to fix the issue.
If the devs feel that they have met their objective of not making Ashes a murderbox, but I disagree, that is OK, too.
But, we will have to actually play the game to know.
Intrepid have the controls to alter player behavior, and they have said they intend react quickly to negative player behavior.
If there are more corruption kills than Intrepid intend, they will simply alter the parameters which in turn will alter player behavior.
Now, it is absolutely possible that Intrepid are ok with players being killed more often than you are ok with. Right now, we don't know.
Thing is, by logging in to the game, you are saying that you are fine with some level of being attacked - because you absolutely have to understand by now that Intrepid do want some level of corruption to be earned and the only way to earn corruption is to kill someone who refuses to fight back.
I mean, we know they don't want it to be rampant, but we also know they want it to be present.
I'm pretty sure the only complaint I've had in this thread is with the unsubstantiated assertion that PvEers will be happy with the Corruption mechanic.
Since we have insufficient evidence to support the claim.
Stating that forcing me to engage in an activity when I'm not in the mood is griefing is not a complaint. It's an example of the meaning of the term griefing.
Just as defining stealing with an example of taking objects from me without my consent is not a complaint.
CopperRaven would be free to reply that that is just "borrowing" if he so wished.
Just because it's possible to "borrow" something from me without my consent does not mean it's OK.
Just because someone leaves their car or house unlocked does not mean it's OK for people -especially strangers- to "borrow" my stuff without consent.
Just because it's possible for me to be mugged when I walk down the street in the middle of the night does not mean it's OK for people to mug me.
I've walked all over Los Angeles at every hour of the day and night in the past 20 years -including Compton- and I have never been attacked.
But, I have been attacked often enough when I'm not in the mood on PvE-Optional servers to move to PvE-Only servers. Because there are always to many disrespectful asshat PvPers who think it's OK to ruin other players' game sessions.
Again, just because I step in a boxing ring does not mean that it's OK to punch me in the face. I could be in the ring to referee or to take photos. Even if I'm in the ring to box, there are specific conditions under governing when it's OK to punch me in the face and when it's not OK to do so.
What casual PvPers and PvEers want is control over when they engage in PvP combat.
If/when we wish to avoid battlegrounds, there should be plenty of other activities in the game to keep us occupied.
PvP combat is a hardcore challenge activity.
I am a casual challenge player, so I am not going to be interested in hardcore challenge activities for much more than an hour.
If that hour is up, I expect to be able to do other things in an MMORPG than PvP combat without being forced by other players to engage in PvP combat.
If that is not a reasonable expectation for a specific MMORPG, I won't play that game.
Which is fine, as long as Ashes is still able to meet their core numbers.
Battlegrounds are a core aspect of Ashes.
Which is why the Corruption mechanic is not in play there.
I am playing a MOBA or an MMOFPS, consent for PvP combat is inherent.
That is the entire point of playing those games.
One would think that RPing would be the primary point of playing an MMORPG.
But, due to the tech limitations of providing sufficient RP/PvE content for the life of a game, we have a significant portion of the playerbase who like to play MMORPGs as if they are an MMOFPS.
Steven is hoping to bring more of the RPG back into MMORPGs while still having an ample amount of consensual PvP combat in the form of "battlegrounds".
Using the Corruption mechanic to minimize griefing non-combatants.
PvP combat will also be possible outside of battlegrounds.
The fact that PvP combat is possible outside of battlegrounds does not make it inherently consensual. Which is precisely why people who kill non-combatants will be penalized with Corruption.
If combat with non-combatants was consensual - it would make no sense to have Corruption as a penalty for killing non-combatants.
It's not really that Intrepid wants some level of Corruption to be earned.
Rather, they want the Corruption mechanic to minimize non-consensual PvP combat.
If you are in a boxing ring, you are aware that it is possible your opponent may bite your ear. However, you accept this fact based on the notion that if he does, there are penalties in place that they will face.
Fortunately, Ashes doesn't rely on people having to hand down those penalties. The systems are straight forward, and if you attack and kill a green player, the penalty is applied automatically.
If being killed once by a player ruins your play session, then yeah, Ashes isn't for you.
If a player kills you multiple times, then you are in a position to ruin the next few weks of his play sessions as you can then kill a weakened opponent (or ask others to do so) resulting in a good chance of him dropping a valuable item.
In regards to what you stand to lose when being attacked, remember that our inventories won't hold a lot of raw materials. If they did, it would nullify the entire caravan system. It is highly likely that we would need to return to mass storage of some form every 15 minutes or so, so being killed only actually ruins the last 7 minutes 30 seconds of your play session at most.
However, yes you are right, the mods can indeed remove your comments because you agreed to their code of conduct which includes this located here
So yeah you can still talk about that subject if you want, just like anyone can walk up to you in-game and slaughter you. The option exists.
1) I did do my research before posting, that was why I posted
2) I really wanted to know if there was a realistic path for a non-violent character in this game. It appears there isn't at this point in time.
If that were the case, there would be no such thing as a non-combatant.
And people would not be flagged as non-combatant by default.
Also, there would be no Corruption mechanic.
You are extremely confused if you think that I wrote that being killed once by a player would ruin my play session. Being killed by another player multiple time would not necessarily ruin my play session.
You should re-read what I actually wrote.
Can't really ruin a ruthless PvPer's play session by providing them with more PvP Combat.
And I have no interest in ruining anyone's play session.
That is highly immoral. Revenge is not much better.
What I stand to lose is agency to engage in the activity I wish to engage in while being forced by some other player to participate in an activity I don't wish to participate in. Which is precisely why Steven is penalizing that with Corruption.
The other thing of value that I stand to lose is time. The time it takes to resolve the combat and possibly the time it takes to recoup xp debt accrued from that encounter - which is especially problematic if I've already accrued the xp debt I allotted for that game session from participating in a siege.
It should not be up to you or any other player to determine that the combat encounter will be insignificant for me.
Which, again, is why people who remove that agency from other players will be penalized with Corruption.
Should Corruption not minimize non-consensual PvP combat to a level I am uncomfortable with, I will stop playing the game. Same is true, I suspect for Lateana and other casual PvPers and PvEers.
Continuing to attack me when I don't attack back is griefing which will be punished with Corruption because it is non-consensual PvP combat.
Occasional griefing is likely to happen in Ashes.
Whether Corruption curtails that griefing sufficiently enough to keep me playing the game remains to be seen.
As far as I can tell, you really don't disagree with me.
Second...they clearly talk and show video that supports their early statement of the game being Pvx. That said i gotta say with the main feature of aoc being nodes...and with the devs explaining how it works ...it is amazing to me how anyone interested in this game does not know that yed pvp will be a bigger deal to experiencing core features than other mmorpg games offering pvp as just like a side thing .
Im mostly pve oriented but 90% of my hype IS the thought of the organic pvp world battles that will happen as various guilds fight over nodes.
Hopefully you will be able to do crafting as a major source of xp/gold and players could bring you resources to craft items for them. If you focus on animal husbandry catching and breeding animals might be a good fit for you. Players that want your specific type of mount/pet won't attack and locals might fight for you. Tavern owners that stick close to their freehold could also go a majority of the game without PvP.
I am not under the impression random kills are going to happen as often as is sometimes portrayed here. I could be wrong. In the end I hope you find a nice little niche in Ashes to make it a second home!
I am hoping this will not be the case. I am well aware of mean-spirited griefers/corpse campers from other gaming experiences. I will have paid for a subscription just as the griefers will have. In the unlikely event that I suffer grief from being killed more than I get to enjoy the game world and playing this game... then I will not be playing it for long...
Not for the first time, your arguments don't make sense and are not thought out at all.
I don't disagree with you that corruption is there to minimize open PvP.
Where I totally disagree with you is in regards to ever being able to call an attack non-consensual in Ashes.
You know the rules, you know the system, if you are logged in and in an area in which you can be attacked - whether you are a non-combatant or not - you are effectively consenting to PvP should someone come along who wants to attack you.
If you do not consent to this possibility, log out.
If you do not have any corruption, the only thing you could drop when killed is harvested resources. No gear, no mounts, no coin.
If you do have corruption, however, then there is a chance you could drop any item you have equipped or in your inventory if you are killed.
Corruption is only earned by killing a non-combatant. So, a green player you see minding his own business, whom you then attack, and - this part is important - doesn't fight back.
Should this player fight back, they become a combatant and killing them generates no corruption. Should you realize that his player isn't fighting back and decide to not kill them and instead walk away, you generate no corruption. Should you not be the kind of person to attack this player in the first place, you will not have corruption.
Ashes has never stated to be a pure PvE game, it has always said it would have an open world environment with PvP.
Does this make it a PvP game? not at all if you look at the penalties a potential ganker is facing when attacking a non-consensual target.
Loss of exp, loss of combat power and eventually loss of items are huge issues to PvP'ers and the corruption system is easy to google and read about.
OP asked " can you go the whole game without killing anything"
Yes, yes you can. The Artisan progression does not take any mob kills to progress in, and you can progress as a crafter without going out in the wild and gaining combat exp.
The original post is just a proof of this. Well, guess what?! I truly hope this game will not be for you.
That is a matter of semantics.
The Corruption mechanic is specifically designed to minimize non-consensual PvP combat. It is there to minimize the killing of non-combatants.
If Corruption fails to minimize non-consensual PvP combat to the levels I am comfortable with, I won't be playing Ashes.
So, we actually do agree. You are just obsessing over terminology.
I disagree that Corruption is designed to minimize "open PvP", because there are many paths for engaging in "open PvP" in Ashes: caravans, sieges, guild wars, etc.
But, that is also semantics.
A troll is someone who calls others names and makes false accusations. Read your own post for further clarification.