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What is left of the game for a PvE player?

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Comments

  • Most likely such people will be surrounded by a raid and will be combatants, so highly unlikely people will be looting valuable dropped resources.
  • Dygz said:
    Most likely such people will be surrounded by a raid and will be combatants, so highly unlikely people will be looting valuable dropped resources.
    A raid full of people just leaving a PvE encounter - not necessarily expecting PvP - are actually quite a good target. Players are broken up, not in any sort of formation or with any sort of PvP based organization

    It would obviously need to be more than 5 people to take on 40, but it would absolutely be possible to take out any group or raid with half the number of people you are attacking if you are organized and ready, and they are neither.

    As for being combatants or not - they likely won't be when engaged, but will quickly flag up in order to protect what ever they have on them (hence the attackers not likely getting corruption).

    However, even when flagged, if you are killed there is a chance you will drop the item in question.

    While it may not have guaranteed yields, players with a PK mindset will likely find it more appealing than running the content to get the items, and if enough raids are running that content it could even be more time efficient.
  • Why would a raid in Ashes not be expecting PvP when leaving a dungeon???
  • Complacency.

    Even games with less penalized PvP than the corruption system offers, people aren't always actually expecting to be attacked, especially when in numbers.
  • We're going to have to wait and see honestly. It's impossible to know the scope and importance of PvE/PvP at this point outside of the node wars/Caravans. What I will say is a lot of what the Devs said sound like they want driven PvP and to punish griefing/harassment. The corruption system sounds like a good start toward that end. I enjoy PvP and PvE. So I'm hoping it doesn't feel either is lacking.

  • We're going to have to wait and see honestly. It's impossible to know the scope and importance of PvE/PvP at this point outside of the node wars/Caravans. What I will say is a lot of what the Devs said sound like they want driven PvP and to punish griefing/harassment. The corruption system sounds like a good start toward that end. I enjoy PvP and PvE. So I'm hoping it doesn't feel either is lacking.

    thank you for being a voice of calm reason 
  • I think with the way the corruption system works, you will not be ganked too often as long as you don't fight back.  What I see happening is someone attacks you, they realize you are not fighting back, so they back off so they don't take the corruption hit.
    However, I do wonder what they will do if someone attacks a player already engaged with a mob and then they back off and let the mob kill them.  Will the ganker still take the corruption hit?  If they don't want people gaming the system, they should make it this way.
  • Poor sportsmanship to attack a green evil they're fighting mobs anyways.
    Get what they diserve.
  • Nibiru79 said:
    I think with the way the corruption system works, you will not be ganked too often as long as you don't fight back.  What I see happening is someone attacks you, they realize you are not fighting back, so they back off so they don't take the corruption hit.
    However, I do wonder what they will do if someone attacks a player already engaged with a mob and then they back off and let the mob kill them.  Will the ganker still take the corruption hit?  If they don't want people gaming the system, they should make it this way.
    While it's not been talked about at all, they system would probably need to be set up where if a player attacks another player, and that second player dies without having left a "combat state", then corruption is applied.

    The main reason I see that as they way it would likely be set up is because it would be easy to also have two players that are not grouped attack a single player, and without such a system, only the player landing the killing blow would get corruption.

    It would also be all too easy for a group to stealth in, single out the tank and healers of a non-instanced PvE raid and take take them almost out, leaving it to the raid mob to finish them off. Without a system such as above, this could be done with no real consequences.

    I don't expect Intrepid to have thought through details like this as of yet, but discussions like this give people in Alpha1/2 things to check.

  • I don't expect Intrepid to have thought through details like this as of yet, but discussions like this give people in Alpha1/2 things to check.
    Actually most of those workarounds and a few others not mentioned here were already given to the devs in a nice info package last year and they said they will take care of it, so no worries. And yes, there are planned tests for the corruption mechanics to make sure they are not able to be exploited.

  • I don't expect Intrepid to have thought through details like this as of yet, but discussions like this give people in Alpha1/2 things to check.
    Actually most of those workarounds and a few others not mentioned here were already given to the devs in a nice info package last year and they said they will take care of it, so no worries. And yes, there are planned tests for the corruption mechanics to make sure they are not able to be exploited.
    Oh I know.

    I'm intending on being in that testing, and have my own list of things to go over - most of which I have not seen discussed at all.
  • I want to be able to do 4 hour long, head+wall+smashing, raids with a PvE party.  I don't want this to be interrupted by gankers who will kill our healer during a boss fight.
  • Nibiru79 said:
    However, I do wonder what they will do if someone attacks a player already engaged with a mob and then they back off and let the mob kill them.  Will the ganker still take the corruption hit?  If they don't want people gaming the system, they should make it this way.
    All assists will for sure lead to corruption penalty. Even if you are ganking a player and i come there as outsider and start to heal or buff you. Then i will get corruption too. 
  • I want to be able to do 4 hour long, head+wall+smashing, raids with a PvE party.  I don't want this to be interrupted by gankers who will kill our healer during a boss fight.
    There will be both open world and instanced raids so in some cases you have a chance to avoid that possibility. ;)
  • Lateana said:
    Oh well, it seems that regardless of various interpretations of what this game is, it is a total PvP game to me. I will log on at least once to see what goodies I have earned by giving money to the Devs. I will also follow the game carefully to see if my concerns are addressed to my liking. BTW:
    1) I did do my research before posting, that was why I posted ;)
    2) I really wanted to know if there was a realistic path for a non-violent character in this game. It appears there isn't at this point in time.
    People, did no one play Lineage 2? Are there perhaps to many people playing 2nd rate or worse MMORPG's? 

    This PvP system is tried and true. Vetted, and enhanced from some nigh 2 decades of experience and use by players.

    You all are missing what actually makes this system work, while you piss and moan about your level of carebear. This all falls onto IS for nailing a few things correctly.

    1. EXP has to be NOT easy to get. Karma is only erased with an exp loss, or "Debt" as Steve has called it. Dying should result in a loss of exp. Thus being one way to burn off karma. If EXP is to esay (I.E. - TERA, ESO, WOW, DIABLOs, SWG name your misc American made Money machine MMO of choice) then no one will care about the "Debt". Like I said, this system isn't new and this should not be a problem.

    2. The economy has to work. The 2nd penalty, and what should be the bigger of the 2 to worry about is the chance of gear loss. If gear is too easy to get, this becomes less of a penalty. If gear is P2W (it wont be), then the scale tips the other way and NO ONE will risk a few thousand USD worth of gear. (Lineage 2 again is an example of abhorrent P2W where a PvP toon could easily have over $50,000 invested in it.)

    When done correctly, ganking becomes a calculated exercise. Where you are balancing your emotions with how much you are willing to risk losing time and resources. Ganks WILL happen, people get heated, GEAR WILL BE LOST! This is a great thing, don't puss out and be afraid, the water is warm I promise! 

    And if you DO get ganked, then HORRAY!! Its time to go hunt down a chaotic player who is losing his ability to fight with every kill bringing you closer to owning their gear!

    Lastly, if you cant stand confrontation of any sort, and can only enjoy a care-bear snowflake environment, then perhaps some self evaluation is in order. Seriously, look at why you would shy away from a challenge (a fictional one in a fictional world at that) and see if maybe this is a root cause of some of your RL shortcomings. We all have some.

    Can't wait to gank your caravan!

    -CS
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited May 2018
    Lateana said:
    Oh well, it seems that regardless of various interpretations of what this game is, it is a total PvP game to me. I will log on at least once to see what goodies I have earned by giving money to the Devs. I will also follow the game carefully to see if my concerns are addressed to my liking. BTW:
    1) I did do my research before posting, that was why I posted ;)
    2) I really wanted to know if there was a realistic path for a non-violent character in this game. It appears there isn't at this point in time.
    People, did no one play Lineage 2? Are there perhaps to many people playing 2nd rate or worse MMORPG's? 

    This PvP system is tried and true. Vetted, and enhanced from some nigh 2 decades of experience and use by players.

    You all are missing what actually makes this system work, while you piss and moan about your level of carebear. This all falls onto IS for nailing a few things correctly.

    1. EXP has to be NOT easy to get. Karma is only erased with an exp loss, or "Debt" as Steve has called it. Dying should result in a loss of exp. Thus being one way to burn off karma. If EXP is to esay (I.E. - TERA, ESO, WOW, DIABLOs, SWG name your misc American made Money machine MMO of choice) then no one will care about the "Debt". Like I said, this system isn't new and this should not be a problem.

    2. The economy has to work. The 2nd penalty, and what should be the bigger of the 2 to worry about is the chance of gear loss. If gear is too easy to get, this becomes less of a penalty. If gear is P2W (it wont be), then the scale tips the other way and NO ONE will risk a few thousand USD worth of gear. (Lineage 2 again is an example of abhorrent P2W where a PvP toon could easily have over $50,000 invested in it.)

    When done correctly, ganking becomes a calculated exercise. Where you are balancing your emotions with how much you are willing to risk losing time and resources. Ganks WILL happen, people get heated, GEAR WILL BE LOST! This is a great thing, don't puss out and be afraid, the water is warm I promise! 

    And if you DO get ganked, then HORRAY!! Its time to go hunt down a chaotic player who is losing his ability to fight with every kill bringing you closer to owning their gear!

    Lastly, if you cant stand confrontation of any sort, and can only enjoy a care-bear snowflake environment, then perhaps some self evaluation is in order. Seriously, look at why you would shy away from a challenge (a fictional one in a fictional world at that) and see if maybe this is a root cause of some of your RL shortcomings. We all have some.

    Can't wait to gank your caravan!

    -CS
    You can stop with the passive aggressive talk already. 
    Just because people do not like PvP does NOT mean they are snowflakes it just means they like PvE. I think most people forget this is PvX game and you cant have only PvP or PvE for ashes to work you need both this was the whole idea. 

    I know people don't like the flagging system, but we have to accept that and move on as it's part of the world. I even think people would accept the system after playing the game and getting used to the world, but it does not help when people like you go around calling anyone who is not into PvP a god damn snowflake!

    We are all here to enjoy the game that intrepid is making for us but in the end, it's just a game, we play to have fun first and foremost. Just because someone does not agree with how you play does not give you the right to insult them.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited May 2018
    @ChuckSteak
    Carebears and snowflakes must really ruin every experience you have. I'm sorry people that are special, or consider themselves special or non-aggressive, really grab your goat.

    I think this game, being a PvX title should have things for those who wish to do nothing but PvP to do. I also think this game should offer things for those who wish only to PvE to do. Will there be limits on how much of the game either does, yes.

    Everyone should be willing to do a little of both, otherwise a PvX game might not be for them.

    Calling people names and trying to insult them though, that's a standard. Well done.

    EDIT: I didn't play Lineage 2, I played better MMORPG's. But that's an opinion, not a fact.
  • EXP has to be NOT easy to get. Karma is only erased with an exp loss, or "Debt" as Steve has called it. Dying should result in a loss of exp. Thus being one way to burn off karma. 

    Can't wait to gank your caravan!
    -CS
    Well, Ashes doesn't have XP loss, just xp debt.
    And...the Corruption system does not apply to caravans.
  • Those who calls others carebears and snowflakes are usually the biggest panties themselfs and they are just acting like big boys and bad asses. Thats always so hilarious. 
  • Whenever we see ChuckSteak in game we can go interrupt what he is doing. I'm sure he'll fight back, so we get no corruption :smile: I'd like to be that special snowflake that hates PVP but killed him then danced around his corpse :mrgreen:
  • I feel like this.  If I'm running around doing PvE, flagged green and questing or gathering or whatever, and some 12-year-old runs up and decides to attack me I'll let him kill me.  Because I'll drop some inconsequential stuff while he gets corruption and really gets messed up.  In my mind, *I* was the one who won that encounter because the consequences for him are so much worse.  I might even taunt and laugh at him during the whole thing for being such a loser.
  • @Atama To me it will be more like situational.

    If i have some really good resources in inventory, then i will most likely fight back and minimize the losses or i could try to run away first.

    If i dont have nothing special with me, then i will most likely fight back if i think i have a chance to win and especially if the other player is corrupted already. He/she could drop something nice if i win.

    Sometimes i will just let the player kill me so he/she will get corruption. 

    Sometimes i will bait players to attack me and then kill them.  


  • Atama said:
    I feel like this.  If I'm running around doing PvE, flagged green and questing or gathering or whatever, and some 12-year-old runs up and decides to attack me I'll let him kill me.  Because I'll drop some inconsequential stuff while he gets corruption and really gets messed up.  In my mind, *I* was the one who won that encounter because the consequences for him are so much worse.  I might even taunt and laugh at him during the whole thing for being such a loser.
    Not gonna lie, as funny as that scenario is, I'm quite sure that will happen at times, in game.  Though, as @Ferryman referred to, it all hinges on choice.  Do you have any  valuable/rare resources on hand, that you don't want to risk dropping? If not, that could motivate a player to defend themselves from an attacker.  (assuming no big level difference)

    Is the resource you're gathering also valuable/rare.  Is it worth attacking another player to secure, or defending from another player, for the same reason?  Risk vs. reward.  Properly implemented, it could be a beautiful thing.
  • Seems to me, if I want resources, it's better to attack a caravan.
    No risk of Corruption at all.
  • Dygz said:
    Seems to me, if I want resources, it's better to attack a caravan.
    No risk of Corruption at all.
    True.  Higher reward, lower risk, for the attackers...other than losing, that is.  But, players won't always be able to have the opportunity to attack a caravan.  And, if they're desperate enough, smaller rewards for higher risks, is another option. 

    Though, I imagine there will be more PvP over resource spots, than actually looting resources off of a defeated opponent.  lol  Who knows.  All depends on what motivates that individual.
  • True.  Higher reward, lower risk, for the attackers...other than losing, that is.  
    The problems with saying caravans are a better source of PvP resources are that - as you said - you will need to find them first, and players won't necessarily stick to roads.

    Second, caravans - especially ones of high value or travelling a long distance - will have multiple player guards. Whether mercenaries, friends, guild members or what ever, few people will load their riches in to a caravan and travel with them without having some form of protection against at least a handful of players. 

    Then there is the assumed requirement of taking that caravan that you just won to a node where you have the infrastructure to use, store or sell it. While we don't know for sure that this is required, I can't see any other realistic way for transfer of teh resources to happen.

    I'll be interested to see if players will fight over resource spots much. My initial impression is that since players can't hold a whole lot in terms of raw resources on them at a time - requiring trips to mass storage to drop them off quite often - I'm not sure if it's worth it.

  • Noaani said:
    True.  Higher reward, lower risk, for the attackers...other than losing, that is.  
    The problems with saying caravans are a better source of PvP resources are that - as you said - you will need to find them first, and players won't necessarily stick to roads.

    Second, caravans - especially ones of high value or travelling a long distance - will have multiple player guards. Whether mercenaries, friends, guild members or what ever, few people will load their riches in to a caravan and travel with them without having some form of protection against at least a handful of players. 

    Then there is the assumed requirement of taking that caravan that you just won to a node where you have the infrastructure to use, store or sell it. While we don't know for sure that this is required, I can't see any other realistic way for transfer of teh resources to happen.

    I'll be interested to see if players will fight over resource spots much. My initial impression is that since players can't hold a whole lot in terms of raw resources on them at a time - requiring trips to mass storage to drop them off quite often - I'm not sure if it's worth it.

    All true.  Interesting speculation, nonetheless.  Though, in regards to caravan loot, I believe that question, about how attackers would be able to transport their gains, after a successful attack, came up.  Steven said something along the line of goods being converted to writs, as loot, being a possibility. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited May 2018
    We should see if we can find out if Castle caravan attacks are restricted to guilds.
    Castles have to use caravans to build up their defenses each week, so should be fairly easy to focus on those if you want to raid caravans frequently.
    We will know which of those villages have to receive the necessary resources each week.

    If you're in a guild, you should be set.
    And, if you're not in a guild, it should be fairly easy to start one dedicated to raiding Castle caravans.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited May 2018
    freespiryt said:
    I believe that question, about how attackers would be able to transport their gains, after a successful attack, came up.  Steven said something along the line of goods being converted to writs, as loot, being a possibility.  
    I've not heard about this, but I already have an issue with this system being used on general, resource based caravans.

    If taking over a caravan of resources gives the attackers a writ, that writ obviously needs to be turned in for a reward. There are two possibilities at this stage - the writ rewards the player resources, or the writ rewards the player with something else.

    If turning in the writ rewards the player resources - then the most efficient way for people to move resourced from one node to the next is to have a friend attack their caravan, and just take the writ to where they want the resources.

    Even if the reward were less resources than the caravan contained, due to this potentially being much *much* faster (can carry multiple writs on you at a time), even if the reward were half the resources the caravan contained, this may still be preferable to actually running a caravan.

    On the other hand, if the writ rewarded the player with something else, then it means fighting for a caravan is no longer a fight over resources - as you don't stand to gain resources.

    Neither of those situations seems overly favorable to me.

    On the other hand, a writ system may need to be used on quest related caravans - assuming those quests aren't simply "take a caravan full of resource X from node Y to node Z. If they are actually quest generated and don't contain resources, then a system akin to writs would be the best way to reward players for taking them over.

    To me, some context about that comment would be helpful. Do you happen to have a quote on hand for where Steven said this? Or perhaps, if we're lucky, @UnknownSystemError  may have one.


This discussion has been closed.