What is left of the game for a PvE player?

ArchivedUser

I don't imagine you can't heal a red player. In a recent interview we found out corruption only effects pvp so you could still be active in pve or groups while corrupted. 

ArchivedUser

I'm happy as long as I can pick mushrooms without fear of being ganked by anyone but the really stupid who can't weight risks and rewards.
I also don't want raid-wipe grievers.

Both will probably still exist, the system should discourage this.  Plenty of other, more meaningful PvP for them to do in my opinion.

ArchivedUser

If you raid and gain loot, then some PvP players jump you when you leave the dungeon you shouldn't be out much. You only drop resources, so except for the resources gathered in the dungeon, they wouldn't get anything. The only problem I see is rare resource drops potentially being looted.

I guess a mercenary guild that watches the dungeon entrance for PvP while your team PvE's is another potential demand.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

We should see if we can find out if Castle caravan attacks are restricted to guilds.
Castles have to use caravans to build up their defenses each week, so should be fairly easy to focus on those if you want to raid caravans frequently.
We will know which of those villages have to receive the necessary resources each week.

If you're in a guild, you should be set.
And, if you're not in a guild, it should be fairly easy to start one dedicated to raiding Castle caravans.

As far as caravans they mentioned a sort of flagging system where players could flag to attack or defend them. Castles could be guild specific of course. However with how citizenship works I think it is likely Castles will have an area of influence and any citizens of nodes in the area will be notified of the need to defend. Hard to say since we aren't sure of how they'll cap participation on either side. I expect non-citizens of nodes will be able to flag up to defend or attack other nodes as well. I could see them allowing others to fill slots like with caravans because not all citizens will be on at one time most likely. It could be as simple as getting an invite into one of the raid parties taking part.

ArchivedUser

With castles, all citizens in the ZOI auto flag to defend. That's not true with non castle nodes.

ArchivedUser

I think looking at this game as "A PvP game" or "A PvE game" is looking at it from the wrong perspective. From what I have seen, the devs are trying to create a truly immersive world where your actions actually matter. In order for your actions to matter, there must be consequences--either good or bad--that are real and impactful. Players fighting and killing other players, even non-consensually, is an unavoidable part of that goal in my opinion.

I personally do not enjoy PvP. I really don't. But I understand that it is necessary in the context of a world with real meaning. Just as in real life I do not enjoy direct conflict, and try to avoid it, so in this game I will seek to avoid it by making friends, forging alliances, being smart and protecting myself, not making foolish decisions, and not getting caught unprepared.

And if I take all those precautions and still die unjustly? There will be consequences for the offender. They will lose time somehow to atone for the action they have done. There will be some kind of justice wrought for the innocent. That is enough to for me to embrace this world they are making.

ArchivedUser

Warbacon said:

I think looking at this game as "A PvP game" or "A PvE game" is looking at it from the wrong perspective. From what I have seen, the devs are trying to create a truly immersive world where your actions actually matter. In order for your actions to matter, there must be consequences--either good or bad--that are real and impactful. Players fighting and killing other players, even non-consensually, is an unavoidable part of that goal in my opinion.

I personally do not enjoy PvP. I really don't. But I understand that it is necessary in the context of a world with real meaning. Just as in real life I do not enjoy direct conflict, and try to avoid it, so in this game I will seek to avoid it by making friends, forging alliances, being smart and protecting myself, not making foolish decisions, and not getting caught unprepared.

And if I take all those precautions and still die unjustly? There will be consequences for the offender. They will lose time somehow to atone for the action they have done. There will be some kind of justice wrought for the innocent. That is enough to for me to embrace this world they are making.

At last someone that makes sense and knows how to enjoy a game.  We have the information on the type world and game Intrepid is developing for us.  It will be what we make it as individuals.   It is a community based game  and cooperation between people is important to advance.   Soloing is a choice we all make at times and we have to accept the dangers whether they are from AI or other players.  

Ashes intends to be a world and game of consequences.  If people don't accept that then they shouldn't play.  

ArchivedUser

NTBRO said:

Confused as to what changed between then and now that makes you feel its not PvE friendly lmao...You guys have no shame, its like what ive posted before saying mmo player base kills their own games before they even come out, you want a game where you can hit afk computer mobs and nothing else? Then yeah, this probably isnt for you.

Hope mmo player base starts to evolve and actually partake in 100% of the games content and not just a portion while trying to push their agenda to only support that small portion of the game.

Fact!

ArchivedUser

AI mobs should not be AFK content.

ArchivedUser

PvE builds the world - PvP destroys it.  Both at the player freehold level, the Metropolis, and the guild.

ArchivedUser

Not sure if it is relevant, but here goes... I have been totally PvE in the past (still largely am) and so I was reluctant to play EVE online initially. EVE is billed as a PvP heavy game. The entire player economy runs off the fact that stuff gets destroyed all the time ... by the ship load. Despite this, it is perfectly possible to enjoy an entirely PvE existence in EVE Online due to the way the secure zones are set up ... yes, suicide ganking is still possible in secure zones, but it is a very minor issue. No reason why Ashes couldn't be similarly PvE friendly while maintaining a healthy dose of PvP to keep the economy live.

ArchivedUser

@Aileric Well you dont actually need full loot PvP rules like in Eve to keep player-driven economy working. It just depends how the item sink and crafting will be implemented. So punishing open world PvP rulesets are not needed, but PvP is needed in Ashes to have influence to the world and to surrounding environment. That is where PvP comes on picture with meaningfull conflicts, meaning large scale castle and city battles.

ArchivedUser

Looting isn't what keeps the economy going in EVE, but destruction. If no crafted gear (or very little) leaves the system, then the crafting economy dies. Gear needs to be destroyed or gradually worn out for the economy to thrive. If it simply changes hands the net change is zero.

ArchivedUser

Aileric said:

Looting isn't what keeps the economy going in EVE, but destruction. If no crafted gear (or very little) leaves the system, then the crafting economy dies. Gear needs to be destroyed or gradually worn out for the economy to thrive. If it simply changes hands the net change is zero.

Yeah i should mention item trashing, which is usually (or always) part of full looting. Still the point is that is not needed to implement via PvP. There is lots of other options.

• It is confirmed that some items will decay with time without chance to repair.
• Also items can be salvaged back to some crafting materials.
• Items can be used to learn recipies and the item will be destroyed at process.
• Maybe items can be learned (and destroyed) to get crafting experience.
• Items can be used to as crafting ingredients to more powerfull items.
• And the whole crafting system will be such, that there wont be mass production which overfloods the markets at first place and every item is more valueable at first place.
• Maybe repairing some gear pieces needs or could be repaired with low lever weapons and armors.

ArchivedUser

Wouldnt worry about that. Its a world for everybody.

ArchivedUser

This discussion has been going on since the forum opened and, I see, it continues. Unfortunately, none of us have ever had a clear 100% understanding of the corruption system. I'm worried that if they implement it the way Black Desert did the PVE crowd will pack up and leave because the penalties were not strong enough. Likewise, if they make it too restrictive the system could force out the PVP crowd. Both camps want to say they are fine with the other leaving, but that isn't good for the game. There needs to be a balance so that both PVE players and PVP players can co-exist and promote the overall health of the game. I'm looking forward to the answer so there can be a meaningful discussion.

ArchivedUser

Davlos said:

Dygz said:

Players who are not hardcore PvPers will want to know how they will be protected from non-consensual PvP combat. 

All PVP is non-consensual.

Little dramatic dont you think? Hahaha

ArchivedUser

You could always hope to get a question answered on the stream on the fourth. c: That's what I'll be doing in this regard. I intend on focusing mainly on four things; Cooking, Fashion/Vanity Collection, Housing/Home Decoration, and finally Naval PVP. Seeing how to get all this is balanced without falling too far behind players who only focus on either pvp/pve. 

ArchivedUser

Raids, dungeons, open world dungeons and bosses, questlines, crafting, storylines. Probably a ton.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

Aileric said:

Looting isn't what keeps the economy going in EVE, but destruction. If no crafted gear (or very little) leaves the system, then the crafting economy dies. Gear needs to be destroyed or gradually worn out for the economy to thrive. If it simply changes hands the net change is zero.

Yeah i should mention item trashing, which is usually (or always) part of full looting. Still the point is that is not needed to implement via PvP. There is lots of other options.

• It is confirmed that some items will decay with time without chance to repair.
• Also items can be salvaged back to some crafting materials.
• Items can be used to learn recipies and the item will be destroyed at process.
• Maybe items can be learned (and destroyed) to get crafting experience.
• Items can be used to as crafting ingredients to more powerfull items.
• And the whole crafting system will be such, that there wont be mass production which overfloods the markets at first place and every item is more valueable at first place.
• Maybe repairing some gear pieces needs or could be repaired with low lever weapons and armors.

You just wrote down a convoluted and highfalutin list of methods to take the place of destruction in a MMO economy just so you can avoid PVP. EVE's economy is in some trouble not because too much is destroyed, but because players are accumulating wealth at a much faster pace than what can be destroyed. This acceleration of accumulation came from pandering to PVE players who begged for a mining capital ship, the Rorqual. Ever since the Rorqual was introduced, people began to stop PVP and devoted all their resources for the sole purpose of getting into Rorqual mining. The biggest alliances now face the problem of not enough members getting into PVP fleets because Rorqual mining is so goddamn lucrative. It also causes price inflation at such a rate that new players can find themselves struggling to purchase the right stuff to go toe to toe against older players, unless there are large organizations who help shoulder the burden of the costs.

If you want the economy of a MMO to be 100% about the players, then trying to circle around having to confront loss in PVP is the best way to be unhelpful. The crux of "meaningful conflict" is to pit the resources and wits of tribes residing in each node against each other, so real economic loss has to be experienced in order for PVP to have any kind of meaning. 

ArchivedUser

@Davlos I dont want to avoid PvP,  dont make false arguments there. I just presented some facts that item sink and economy can be handle easily others ways than just using PvP and loot drop system. It just depends of gamedesign. And who gives a shit what happened in space rocket game, which has almost nothing to do with Ashes? 

ArchivedUser

@Davlos
Arenas are 100% consensual PvP combat.
Same for instanced battlegrounds.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

item sink and economy can be handle easily others ways than just using PvP and loot drop system. 

You call it "easy", but you're asking for more and more interlocking systems to be designed, iterated and tested, then layered on top of each other. All of the above will introduce more moving parts to get the server to process and introduce more lag. If you have ever been anywhere near the design or development process, these things are anything but "easy". 

And who gives a shit what happened in space rocket game, which has almost nothing to do with Ashes? 

Because that particular MMO is frequently held as the gold standard of how a self-sustaining player-based economy is done instead of the abortion of an "auction house" system which more recent titles like BDO has. By making this statement, you're only demonstrating myopia of perspective.

ArchivedUser

I'm not a fan of PvP for the most part.  That's entirely due to my prior experiences in games where there weren't many rules for PvP.  In those games my experiences tended to be getting jumped by someone 20 levels above me while I'm trying to harvest mats.  Getting attacked while fighting a mob thereby being at a serious disadvantage.  Or being attacked by more than one player.  In other words the usual to a certain type of PVPer.  In most scenarios I had no real chance to defend myself.  I often wondered how someone could get satisfaction from defeating someone who was no real challenge.  So I left those games and stuck to PVE only games or games that had segregated servers.  And my view of PVPers was that they're all drooling, mouth-breathing 12 year olds who worry incessantly about whether any new game has a teabag emote.  I realize that's not the case but you go by what you've experienced and a few bad apples really can ruin the barrel.

All that said I fully intend to play Ashes and I fully intend to go on some caravans, and I fully intend to defend my node\home and if I happen to get jumped on occasion while I'm out in the wilds that's ok too.  Whether I fight back or run to stay green will depend on how I feel at the time.  If getting jumped happens only once in a while I'm ok with it.  If it gets to the point where I can't set foot outside of town without getting attacked every 5 minutes, and thereby can't enjoy the PVE aspects of the game, then I may decide to move on from Ashes. 

But you don't know how the game is going to be until you play the game and I'm perfectly willing to reserve judgement until I have.  Speculation is all well and good but nothing beats first hand XP. 

ArchivedUser

@Noemad I feel like you spoke for me...I would have given more than one like if it were possible.

ArchivedUser

Davlos said:

Ferryman said:

item sink and economy can be handle easily others ways than just using PvP and loot drop system. 

You call it "easy", but you're asking for more and more interlocking systems to be designed, iterated and tested, then layered on top of each other. All of the above will introduce more moving parts to get the server to process and introduce more lag. If you have ever been anywhere near the design or development process, these things are anything but "easy". 

Now when you have absolutly nothing to argue more, you stuck with word "easy". How lame.. So you are basically saying that features should not be implemented if they need some work? Thats the mentality to get shit games. Well guess what, IS is going to create player driven economy without full loot system, so lets say i have about million times more faith to them, than just random forum guy like you. Lets see how many points from my earlier post will actually be in game and lets after that talk about who knows about gamedesigning and who dont.   

ArchivedUser

Davlos said:

And who gives a shit what happened in space rocket game, which has almost nothing to do with Ashes? 

Because that particular MMO is frequently held as the gold standard of how a self-sustaining player-based economy is done instead of the abortion of an "auction house" system which more recent titles like BDO has. By making this statement, you're only demonstrating myopia of perspective.

Yes it can be held standard in games, which has same kind of economy system as Eve. That system bases on full loot system and items trashing. That does not mean it would be standard to all type of MMOs. You want every game to be full loot games why you want desperately change Ashes to be something like that too. So it is you who lives in that own personal utopia.  

ArchivedUser

I'm a solo PvE player by necessity. I don't PvP because I've had bad experiences in games. I've paid my dues to Ashes of Creation, so I will play the game and see how it goes. I understand the game's concept of the necessity of PvP, and as long as there is no ganking/griefing of green players, I can enjoy the game.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:Now when you have absolutly nothing to argue more, you stuck with word "easy". How lame.. So you are basically saying that features should not be implemented if they need some work? 

I don't argue that features shouldn't be worked on just because they require labor, but there's little utility in spending months on them when more straightforward and impactful methods can be used instead. It's even worse if unnecessary and extra features were made, only to be discovered during playtesting that they're useless and don't affect gameplay or the meta on a wider scale. From prior projects I've worked on, I saw at least 5 months in man-hours get wasted because of silly ideas like yours.

Lets see how many points from my earlier post will actually be in game and lets after that talk about who knows about gamedesigning and who dont.   

Bring it. I work in the industry now, and talk to designers and engineers on a daily basis during the work week. I guarantee you the resource consumption in those features you want will not be able to match the resource accumulation done by players in general. 

You want every game to be full loot games why you want desperately change Ashes to be something like that too. So it is you who lives in that own personal utopia.  

Show me where in my conversation with you I have said, "This game (Ashes of Creation) should only have full loot drop from PVP" and you will get $50 in the Paypal account of your choice. So far, I have only made arguments on why real economic loss in conflict needs to be inflicted in order to a) make the pain of losing substantial and b) attain an equilibrium between resource accumulation and consumption.

ArchivedUser

Davlos said:

I guarantee you the resource consumption in those features you want will not be able to match the resource accumulation done by players in general. 

I want? I have not wanted anything, just shown examples how crafting can be designed to create working economy around it. You should really learn to read and understand, start with that and after that stay with industry. And fyi some points were already something confirmed to be in Ashes so those are not my ideas. And actually not sure if any are, just borrowed ideas from other games. That silly those are.

Davlos said:

Show me where in my conversation with you I have said, "This game (Ashes of Creation) should only have full loot drop from PVP" and you will get $50 in the Paypal account of your choice. So far, I have only made arguments on why real economic loss in conflict needs to be inflicted in order to a) make the pain of losing substantial and b) attain an equilibrium between resource accumulation and consumption.

You have not said that in this conversation, but you have spoken behalf of full loot PvP in other threads before. "I have only made arguments on why real economic loss.." You have made false arguments what i want and how i try to avoid PvP based on options i listed.. christ. It seems this economy with full loot is really sore topic to you.