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DPS Meter Megathread

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Comments

  • According to wiki Combat Logs are going to be in the game and they are much more valuable than dps meters ever can
    “Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.”

    ― Plato
  • Tragnar wrote: »
    According to wiki Combat Logs are going to be in the game and they are much more valuable than dps meters ever can
    Do other players have access to the logs?
  • I suppose that if you are in the raid that everyone in there will have access to combat logs from everything that happened in there - otherwise it would be interesting uploading it from every player separately :smiley:
    “Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.”

    ― Plato
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Assuming it's just text files, that is exactly what people will do - upload it to a server running a combat tracker.

    If it is in game chat only, then all people will do is use image recognition to create text files, and then upload those to a server running a combat tracker.

    This is how the combat tracker I use for Archeage worked. If that game had any worthile PvP, it would have been very common for people to use it.

    Edit; in fact, if this is all they do, the same two tools I used in Archeage will work just fine in Ashes. I am assuming there will be something more to it than that though.
  • 3am3am Member
    Maybe just wait? Try to play the game within it's boundaries then throw a fit if and/or when dps meters are necessary? Right now most of the community and the developer don't want them. Circumventing that disregards the community you want to be a part of and the effort being put into the game you want to play. What you're asking is for an artist that everyone loves to change their vision when you haven't even seen the painting.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    3am wrote: »
    Maybe just wait? Try to play the game within it's boundaries then throw a fit if and/or when dps meters are necessary? Right now most of the community and the developer don't want them. Circumventing that disregards the community you want to be a part of and the effort being put into the game you want to play. What you're asking is for an artist that everyone loves to change their vision when you haven't even seen the painting.

    The issue with this is that the sub-community I am already a part of - my guild, and friends I have formed in other guilds - are simply no longer looking at Ashes.

    The community in Ashes may well be over all for not having a combat tracker (though this does not appear to be the case), but the numbers are only as they are because most of the people that would make the best use of combat trackers are simply no longer considering this game.

    These people aren't leaving over combat trackers per se, they are leaving because not having easy access to a combat tracker signifies that this game is also likely to not have the type of content my friends and I want.

    You can't support a content type and thus the players that prefer that content type without the tools that those players want for that content type.

    No combat tracker means all PvE content will be less complex, and thus easier to figure out. Players like myself will use combat trackers not because it gives us an dvantage, but because it will - in time - force Intrepid to accept their use just as happened in GW2.

    Then, when the game goes from no combat trackers in public use to all players that want one being able to have one, and all of a sudden people are still not being kicked from groups, we can all refer back to this time and see who it is that has no idea what they are talking about.
  • 3am3am Member
    edited August 2020
    noaani wrote: »
    3am wrote: »
    Maybe just wait? Try to play the game within it's boundaries then throw a fit if and/or when dps meters are necessary? Right now most of the community and the developer don't want them. Circumventing that disregards the community you want to be a part of and the effort being put into the game you want to play. What you're asking is for an artist that everyone loves to change their vision when you haven't even seen the painting.

    The issue with this is that the sub-community I am already a part of - my guild, and friends I have formed in other guilds - are simply no longer looking at Ashes.

    The community in Ashes may well be over all for not having a combat tracker (though this does not appear to be the case), but the numbers are only as they are because most of the people that would make the best use of combat trackers are simply no longer considering this game.

    These people aren't leaving over combat trackers per se, they are leaving because not having easy access to a combat tracker signifies that this game is also likely to not have the type of content my friends and I want.

    You can't support a content type and thus the players that prefer that content type without the tools that those players want for that content type.

    No combat tracker means all PvE content will be less complex, and thus easier to figure out. Players like myself will use combat trackers not because it gives us an dvantage, but because it will - in time - force Intrepid to accept their use just as happened in GW2.

    Then, when the game goes from no combat trackers in public use to all players that want one being able to have one, and all of a sudden people are still not being kicked from groups, we can all refer back to this time and see who it is that has no idea what they are talking about.

    Except your in the minority here by all the polls stats. A major minority. Most people aren't going to draw the line at a DPS meter. The least content thing that could be in a game. The game won't die without the hardcore community that can't get away from something so small, I'd love it if they stayed, but it's an incredible minority. The games not even in beta and your coming to conclusions about combat.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Oh we wish you weren't looking at ashes, but in fact, you are because you plague us with DPS Meter posts. The old forums were so full of hope and wonder, now we have the same issues repeat - corruption system, DPS Meters and recently Multi-Boxing.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • 3am3am Member
    edited August 2020
    Could we maybe get a sticky post on DPS meters? So we could move on to more productive discussions.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    3am wrote: »
    Except your in the minority here by all the polls stats.
    What poll?

    Not that it matters, polls are only as valuable as the level of knowledge of people voting, and in most cases, that is very low.

    I've yet to have anyone actually engage in discussion that has come up with a better suggestion than the one I put forth over a year ago, as it pleases virtually all sides of the argument.

    As such, when actually engaged in the topic, it would seem that the bulk of people are for a combat tracker of sorts.
  • 3am3am Member
    edited August 2020
    noaani wrote: »
    3am wrote: »
    Except your in the minority here by all the polls stats.
    What poll?

    Not that it matters, polls are only as valuable as the level of knowledge of people voting, and in most cases, that is very low.

    I've yet to have anyone actually engage in discussion that has come up with a better suggestion than the one I put forth over a year ago, as it pleases virtually all sides of the argument.

    As such, when actually engaged in the topic, it would seem that the bulk of people are for a combat tracker of sorts.

    Well aren't we conceded lol. And there is no suggestion? The decision has been made. When your actually engaged in the topic it's because those you are engaging with are looking for an echo chamber. People look and engage with those of a like mind as confrontation is generally avoided by most.

    The poll is somewhere in the no damage meters thread. I will attempt to find it tomorrow and send you the link.
  • Daedrik45 wrote: »
    After reading a couple post about dps meters, I decided to do a little experiment this morning during my guilds raid. I told my GM I wasn’t going to be using dps meter for the raid, he told me if it causes me to slip In dps I was to turn it back on, I said ok deal.

    At first I was nervous lol, but bc I played my class for so long and mastered my rotation from leveling and doing dungeons for gear my nerves calmed after the first pull. I started to notice certain mechanics in fights I didn’t before small things that would give away the next step in the fight, certain movements etc. instead of constantly staring at the meter making sure I was at the right numbers, I was able to just play the game and enjoy myself.

    Ironically my Gm whispered me and said “ wow this is the best you have parsed in any raid”

    It was In this moment I realized what Steve was talking about and I’ve decided I’ll never use one ever again. I will trust my ability and put In the extra work to master my class! Freedom ladies and gentlemen, having no meter gave me FREEDOM.

    We embrace you ! and welcome you to the light side :O

    *gives a cookie*
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This is getting ridiculous
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    3am wrote: »
    When your actually engaged in the topic it's because those you are engaging with are looking for an echo chamber.
    Clearly, you have not been following this topic very long.
  • every day 2-3 posts about this -.- I wish intrepid would just close all of these smaller ones and merge them into one.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    halbarz wrote: »
    every day 2-3 posts about this -.- I wish intrepid would just close all of these smaller ones and merge them into one.

    I'd be all for that.

    People may be surprised to see the date of the first post though - especially if they could also merge in the threads from the old forums.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Nagash wrote: »
    This is getting ridiculous
    @Nagash

    I assume you're not expecting me to stop or back down from my personal position on the matter. You may be the undead one, but I'm the tireless one.

    And hey, changed the profile pic for you!
  • 3am3am Member
    edited August 2020
    noaani wrote: »
    3am wrote: »
    When your actually engaged in the topic it's because those you are engaging with are looking for an echo chamber.
    Clearly, you have not been following this topic very long.

    Clearly I've been following it long enough to know that intrepid has said officially on multiple occasions that there will not be a DPS meter and they will not be allowing third party programs. Somehow you haven't managed to pick this up with all the hardcore time you've spent looking into the topic. Instead if conceding, your response is that you'll just cheat and break the games rules. You apparently have a problem not getting what you want. Quit beating the dead horse, it's dead. Very, very, very dead.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    noaani wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    This is getting ridiculous
    @Nagash

    I assume you're not expecting me to stop or back down from my personal position on the matter. You may be the undead one, but I'm the tireless one.

    And hey, changed the profile pic for you!

    I was talking about DPS meters in general ^^
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • noaani wrote: »
    I completely agree @Daedrik45 , most the time a DPS meter will be not only toxic to the community but yourself, it will give you an unhealthy addiction of staring at numbers rather than enjoying the immersive experience. The only time I can see DPS meters becoming handy is when you need to decrease DPS to a particular thresh hold, however like anything this just comes down to understanding your class, moves and rotations to adjust damage accordingly.

    I am a firm believer of leaving addons such as DPS meters and gear inspectors as it removes the challenge from the game.
    Since when have numbers been unhealthy?

    Of all the arguments I've seen people make against combat trackers - this has to be the oddist.

    I spent a decade raiding in EQ2, and during raids my screen only had my hotbars, my target, my implied target (or targets target) and the buffs I had on me.

    I had a combat tracker running, but there was never a need to have it showing on screen during a raid. If need be, I could look at things at the end of the night, but if that is how I want to spend my time, that should be my perogitive.

    Unhealthy in the sense that many people when raiding focus more on their name getting higher on the dps list than actually doing what they need to do mechanically. The term unhealthy is more aimed towards guilds which will have a dedicated person whos job is to monitor, analyse and pull up anyone lacking in numbers.

    This can be in many forms however I found DPS meters are the most common, I to have been raiding for a very long time and have played majority if not all mmorpgs to have released for western society.

    I personally choose to ignore it and occasionally use it as a reference if DPS needs to decrease however some will ignore raid calls, mechanics or over threat a target just to try and get the highest in DPS. This is the individuals problem yes. So the term unhealthy is more of a loose term and not meant to be taken literally.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    3am wrote: »
    Somehow you haven't managed to pick this up
    Oh, I picked it up a while ago.

    I've even said a number of times (going back to last year) that this is Stevens game, and so it is Stevens decision.

    That doesn't mean I have to agree with his decision, and I am sure he wouldn't expect any one player to agree with every decision he makes - not a player that is capable of thinking for themself, at least.

    My response is that *I* will break the rules, it is that there will be multiple combat trackers out there that work for this game, regardless of what I do or do not do, and as such I may as well make use of them.

    Why wouldn't I?
  • 3am3am Member
    edited August 2020
    noaani wrote: »
    3am wrote: »
    Somehow you haven't managed to pick this up
    Oh, I picked it up a while ago.

    I've even said a number of times (going back to last year) that this is Stevens game, and so it is Stevens decision.

    That doesn't mean I have to agree with his decision, and I am sure he wouldn't expect any one player to agree with every decision he makes - not a player that is capable of thinking for themself, at least.

    My response is that *I* will break the rules, it is that there will be multiple combat trackers out there that work for this game, regardless of what I do or do not do, and as such I may as well make use of them.

    Why wouldn't I?

    No one said you had to agree. I said that you haven't picked up that it's decided. Which is pretty apparent here. And you wouldn't use them because you should have respect for the community and game your joining.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Unhealthy in the sense that many people when raiding focus more on their name getting higher on the dps list than actually doing what they need to do mechanically. The term unhealthy is more aimed towards guilds which will have a dedicated person whos job is to monitor, analyse and pull up anyone lacking in numbers.

    This can be in many forms however I found DPS meters are the most common, I to have been raiding for a very long time and have played majority if not all mmorpgs to have released for western society.

    I personally choose to ignore it and occasionally use it as a reference if DPS needs to decrease however some will ignore raid calls, mechanics or over threat a target just to try and get the highest in DPS. This is the individuals problem yes. So the term unhealthy is more of a loose term and not meant to be taken literally.
    That is an issue with the guild, not with the combat tracker.

    If players are not paying attention to the mechanic that they need to pay attention to get through the encounter, then that guilds leadership is at fault. It doesn't matter what that player is doing instead of paying attention to the mechanic that they should be paying attention to, it is always an issue of guild leadership.

    If someone in a raid is ignoring calls, that is a serious issue that should be dealt with on the spot. If it ever happened to me on one of my raids (in a manner where it was not just a bad day for the player involved), that player wouldn't be in the guild much longer.

    Fortunately, I have never had issues with people that think their own performance is more important than the raids performance - we tend to weed those people out during recruiting.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I will always say that DPS meters should be implemented with care.
    Make it a function of training dolls in freeholds or something for everyone, and implement it in raid/dungeon groups for team/raid leaders to look through after the fight.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    3am wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    3am wrote: »
    Somehow you haven't managed to pick this up
    Oh, I picked it up a while ago.

    I've even said a number of times (going back to last year) that this is Stevens game, and so it is Stevens decision.

    That doesn't mean I have to agree with his decision, and I am sure he wouldn't expect any one player to agree with every decision he makes - not a player that is capable of thinking for themself, at least.

    My response is that *I* will break the rules, it is that there will be multiple combat trackers out there that work for this game, regardless of what I do or do not do, and as such I may as well make use of them.

    Why wouldn't I?

    No one said you had to agree. I said that you haven't picked up that it's decided. Which is pretty apparent here.

    I have picked up that it has been decided.

    Again, that doesn't mean I need to agree, nor that I need to stop discussing the topic.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Daedrik45 wrote: »
    After reading a couple post about dps meters, I decided to do a little experiment this morning during my guilds raid. I told my GM I wasn’t going to be using dps meter for the raid, he told me if it causes me to slip In dps I was to turn it back on, I said ok deal.

    At first I was nervous lol, but bc I played my class for so long and mastered my rotation from leveling and doing dungeons for gear my nerves calmed after the first pull. I started to notice certain mechanics in fights I didn’t before small things that would give away the next step in the fight, certain movements etc. instead of constantly staring at the meter making sure I was at the right numbers, I was able to just play the game and enjoy myself.

    Ironically my Gm whispered me and said “ wow this is the best you have parsed in any raid”

    It was In this moment I realized what Steve was talking about and I’ve decided I’ll never use one ever again. I will trust my ability and put In the extra work to master my class! Freedom ladies and gentlemen, having no meter gave me FREEDOM.

    The thing that you dont see here is, that you used the DPS meter as a learning help which developed into a crutch.
    I always tell people to use the meter to learn their rotations, to hone their reactions and to check them after fights.
    A dps meter should never be read in the middle of a fight.

    The funniest thing for me once was to see where my damage came from as a combat rogue in Warlods of Draenor.
    1. Melee Hits
    2. Off-hand melee hits
    3. Sinister Strike
    4. Multihit procs

    And I was top damage at the time in mythic.
  • 3am3am Member
    @noaani
    You're right you go ahead and beat the dead horse then. If it helps you through till the game comes out who am I to stop you from venting. Since you understand that the decision has been made I'll stop taking your posts seriously as you know they won't actually go anywhere.
  • Combat Logs are the only thing necessary. In the end, the only use for DPS meter is for a contest between party members. IMO it takes someone out of the game by a notch as you are only watching numbers and highly efficient performance, not whether the boss dies or not.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    3am wrote: »
    You're right you go ahead and beat the dead horse then. If it helps you through till the game comes out who am I to stop you from venting. Since you understand that the decision has been made I'll stop taking your posts seriously as you know they won't actually go anywhere.
    Debate and discussion is always worth it.

    If you have something to actually add to the topic, I welcome it.
  • 3am3am Member
    edited August 2020
    noaani wrote: »
    3am wrote: »
    You're right you go ahead and beat the dead horse then. If it helps you through till the game comes out who am I to stop you from venting. Since you understand that the decision has been made I'll stop taking your posts seriously as you know they won't actually go anywhere.
    Debate and discussion is always worth it.

    If you have something to actually add to the topic, I welcome it.

    Debate and discussion with purpose are always worth it. Debating and discussing something that's already been debated and discussed to a finalized end is complaining about the conclusion. My addition to the topic is no, it's a terrible idea that is categorically against the direction and design of the game ( As it is against the rules). The only other thing I would add is an applaud to intrepid for being so patient on this, and allowing forum members to literally state that they plan to cheat in the game. It takes a lot to stand by your word, and it says alot for the company.
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