[Megathread] Dual Shields and you

Sathrago

Neurath wrote: »

Do we really need dual threads for dual shields? Doubling the thread won't achieve the desired results. I want IS to give us a spell book on a chain to whip around more than I want double shields.

2h shields are not dual shields.

Songcaller

The point still remains, there have been no major medieval battles won by soldiers who use two shields or two handed shields. Knights wore shoulder shields for jousts but Ashes is High Fantasy and not even Medieval. To be blunt, I don't even see how metal armour is relevant when Magic is involved, let alone a two handed shield or dual shields.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

Do we really need dual threads for dual shields? Doubling the thread won't achieve the desired results. I want IS to give us a spell book on a chain to whip around more than I want double shields.

This thread is about dual shields.

Sathrago wants a thread about two handed shields.

Think about dual wielding swords and two handed swords - these are vastly different things. So far, Steven has said dual wielding shields is silly, he has not commented on two handed shields.

Songcaller

I've already commented on two handed shields and dual shields. My stance remains and I think it is a silly request. I don't need Steven to tell me its a silly request.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

The point still remains, there have been no major medieval battles won by soldiers who use two shields or two handed shields. Knights wore shoulder shields for jousts but Ashes is High Fantasy and not even Medieval. To be blunt, I don't even see how metal armour is relevant when Magic is involved, let alone a two handed shield or dual shields.

Soldiers, no.

However, mobile defenses are a thing. Be it a wall for archery to hide behind (which is one use I can see in game for two handed shields), or as overhead protection when getting a ram in to position.

There is a long history of people on the battlefield providing others with protection - something Ashes could emulate using two handed shields.

Sathrago

Neurath wrote: »

The point still remains, there have been no major medieval battles won by soldiers who use two shields or two handed shields. Knights wore shoulder shields for jousts but Ashes is High Fantasy and not even Medieval. To be blunt, I don't even see how metal armour is relevant when Magic is involved, let alone a two handed shield or dual shields.

alright where are all the battles with greatswords?

sorry but you get the point right? Not everything needs to be cohesive with literal medieval fantasy. There is wiggle room and I don't think it is unreasonable to look at 2h shields now.

Vhaeyne

Sathrago wrote: »

Not everything needs to be cohesive with literal medieval fantasy. There is wiggle room and I don't think it is unreasonable to look at 2h shields now.

Having thicker weapons than what people would historically use is the wiggle room.

I am a major Star trek fan, but I would never ask for or expect the Klingon Bat'leth to exist in a fantasy setting. WOW basically made a fantasy version of the Bat'leth with that dumb ass "War Glaive" demon hunters use.

I bring up the Bat'leth and War Glaive because they are both awful 2 handed weapons that make little sense. The two handed shield just feels like it would be the third weapon in this unholy trinity of non-sense two handed weapons.

I would rather just see someone tank with a really thick great sword, then hide behind it's width to block like a shield. In that way its a two handed sword and a two handed shield. Even that is silly to me, but it makes more sense that swinging a big shield around.

Most MMOs don't even have Tower Shields. The best you can ever hope for is for some of the shields to be slightly bigger. Since animating Tower shields correctly is a separate thing most DEVs skip it. That might be the key take away in all of this. Tower Shields, Duel Shields, and Two handed Shields would all be extra animations. I don't think they would do it based on that alone.

Even if it was reasonable, they might skip it because of the extra work.

Beekeeper

Noaani wrote: »

There is a long history of people on the battlefield providing others with protection - something Ashes could emulate using two handed shields.

Isn't that just describing the tank class?

Noaani

Beekeeper wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

There is a long history of people on the battlefield providing others with protection - something Ashes could emulate using two handed shields.

Isn't that just describing the tank class?

It is describing one aspect of the tank class.

As I said earlier in this thread, the more people you have present in an action, the more specialized those people can be. You could quite easily look at a build using a two handed shield as a very specialized form of tank.

Beekeeper

Maybe, but then you'd either instate a meta where "serious" tanks need to use 2H-shields, or where the entire class of Tank becomes less important, as anyone could just pick up a 2h shield and tank a bit. I could imagine that in a game like ESO, where you can also pick up a healing staff, or a DPS sword, and create a combo with your original class to define your role, but from what I've seen of Ashes so far, weapons didn't seem to go THAT far- otherwise you wouldn't just have Mage/Tank and Mage/Cleric, you'd have Mage/Tank/Sword and Mage/Tank/Staff, where the weapon ends up defining the role in combat more than the class.

Case in point, ESO has no tank class, or healer class, or DPS class, you just get a general class and define yourself further through armor and weapon choice.

Noaani

Beekeeper wrote: »

Maybe, but then you'd either instate a meta where "serious" tanks need to use 2H-shields, or where the entire class of Tank becomes less important, as anyone could just pick up a 2h shield and tank a bit.

That isn't even remotely close to what would happen.

consultant

Well if like a tank had thier regular shield and had a round shield on their back (small round shield ) that was was the shield that got thrown that would be pretty cool.

Jxshuwu

Instead of double shield, i'd personally prefer one big thick two-handed tower shield.

Fairtale

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I will be monitoring this thread carefully and if the attacks continue, I will close it.

Please prioritize punishing toxic behavior over closing topics, please don't punish many for the mistakes of a few

BaSkA13 wrote: »

I would prefer if you couldn't swap any gear while in-combat, but that doesn't mean you couldn't wield different gear for different situations.

Personally, I love adapting my weapons to the type of enemy I am facing, and this would be impossible against rogues if it was restricted in-combat.

But I 100% agree that this should be limited in some way (like only being able to change items once every 20 seconds or so) to avoid things like in WoW-classic where tanks dual-wield weapons and swap to equip a shield every time they are critically hit (which makes 0 sense and is kind of ridiculous).

Dygz

It could be a cool Weapon Skills tree.
Any class can use any weapon, so...

Fairtale

This all reminds me of that old dungeons & dragons cartoon where each hero got a special power, and one of them only got a shield, I always thought he was such a loser

Atama

mr n0body wrote: »

This all reminds me of that old dungeons & dragons cartoon where each hero got a special power, and one of them only got a shield, I always thought he was such a loser

Eric the Cavalier wasn't a loser because he got a shield. (Presto just got a hat he could pull things out of for crying out loud!) He was a loser because he was constantly whining about everything. His shield was kind of cool; it projected a force field and was one of the more useful artifacts they received.

Actually between his annoying whining (which would be an effective taunt, I sure wanted to beat the tar out of him) and his nigh invulnerability he was a perfect MMO tank.

Noaani

mr n0body wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I will be monitoring this thread carefully and if the attacks continue, I will close it.

Please prioritize punishing toxic behavior over closing topics, please don't punish many for the mistakes of a few

I'm curious as to why you would post in a thread that hadn't had any comments for three months, quoting a moderator post from close to a year ago.

Conrad

CaptnChuck wrote: »

It won't matter if you're wielding two shields or two swords. When I face you, that's where your journey ends.

You say that as if dual wielding swords makes you weaker

Freemeta

Freemeta

looks realistic. what about spiked shield? or magical electric shield etc.


another one from art station:

Songcaller

Noaani wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

The point still remains, there have been no major medieval battles won by soldiers who use two shields or two handed shields. Knights wore shoulder shields for jousts but Ashes is High Fantasy and not even Medieval. To be blunt, I don't even see how metal armour is relevant when Magic is involved, let alone a two handed shield or dual shields.

Soldiers, no.

However, mobile defenses are a thing. Be it a wall for archery to hide behind (which is one use I can see in game for two handed shields), or as overhead protection when getting a ram in to position.

There is a long history of people on the battlefield providing others with protection - something Ashes could emulate using two handed shields.

We come back to the pavis. What a Fateful necro post above lol.

Sathrago wrote: »

alright where are all the battles with greatswords?

sorry but you get the point right? Not everything needs to be cohesive with literal medieval fantasy. There is wiggle room and I don't think it is unreasonable to look at 2h shields now.

Great swords were great for making space and killing unarmoured people - especially ranged units prior to fast reloading firearms.

I apologise for the 2 year wait, lol.

Orbificator

If they'll let me, I'd want my in-game statue for royalty Kickstarter to be wielding Dual Shields.

2H shields or only a single shield as a weapon is also something I'd like. I love the fantasy of using shields as shields and as weapons. It just feels like it would be unexpected. It's strange and irregular.

I don't expect them to ever implement this stuff, but its fun to fantasize.

Freemeta

yep Tower shield are really cool, i'm sure i'm not alone loving the shield hero (s1) or bofuri
https://youtu.be/2s_wnT7Imuc
https://youtu.be/sbQFJfTo0yQ
https://youtu.be/fXEedEfl56Y

TyranthraxusEQ

For the record, I'm still a no, regardless of how cool these look.

Sathrago

Neurath wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

alright where are all the battles with greatswords?

sorry but you get the point right? Not everything needs to be cohesive with literal medieval fantasy. There is wiggle room and I don't think it is unreasonable to look at 2h shields now.

Great swords were great for making space and killing unarmoured people - especially ranged units prior to fast reloading firearms.

I apologise for the 2 year wait, lol.

I will approach this assuming that's true as it sounds reasonable. What I would like to point out is that shields have a variety of forms and uses already. We can agree that some of them were designed with striking in mind, right?

There were also 2 handed shields used for sieges, and silly spiked ones for duels. All I am asking is that you now apply high fantasy magic and strength. It's in my mind very clear that these weapons would be easily functional in such a setting, only limited by the creator. Just like massive weapons can't be used IRL these would probably be too difficult to wield IRL as well.

And thats basically my reasoning. its less of "magic lets you do anything" and more of a "we can do something similar irl, and its not a stretch that stronger/magical people could do it properly."

Songcaller

Yeah. I mean those siege 'shields' are more like screens, even the romans used screens and walls. A pavis could be a shield or a screen. A screen was designed to prevent siege machines and ranged attacks for the most part. Could also just build a rampart or earth mound/foxholes though.

The great sword is just an iron spear. Heavier and just as effective. The germans/swiss had whole units with them. I don't mind the whole slant you want. Of course, Elves and Bows are a prime example - elves uses bows without bulky physical strength but through inherent strength instead (Magic?).

daveywavey

Depraved

Filozer wrote: »

All classes can use any weapon.
So I would say add in, bucklers for main hand and offhand, half shields for main and and offhand, and standard shields for main hand.
The attack rotation with the primary would be, main hand, off hand, main hand
and then you can interchange the shields for different combos.

For example a Tank Rogue using a Buckler Main hand and a Dagger offhand would have a three attack primary combo of Buckler>Dagger>Buckler

For casters using a shield in their main hand but a spell book or wand their offhand , that it uses the Mini shields which would preform kind of like a close range weapon, while still giving casters the ability to use defensive spells that might block attacks.

Half shields which can come together to make a completed shield.


Standard dual shield


Dual Bucklers


Summoned magic shield


Mini shields for caster, [EG; Tank Wizard]

they are about to flap their wings and fly

Songcaller

I don't like those images. What makes a shield work is the wrist strap and hand grip. Otherwise the shield will just be turned by the opponent left and right in quick succession with stabs coming in the opposite sides. The only one I do like is the mini shields for the caster but not in the format shown lol.

I don't think dual shields is a viable option and I doubt it will ever be added before crossbow.