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Dealing with random player killing in an open-world PvP MMO.

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Comments

  • XylsXyls Member, Alpha Two
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.
    We are recruiting PvPers!
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.
  • Xyls wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    A lot of you think that the corruption system is more than sufficient as is. It isn't. There are a ton of ways to bypass corruption. I'll state one such example and I want you @Mojottv , @Dolyem , @Bricktop , @bigepeen , to tell me how the corruption system will address it.

    Say you're a lvl10 questing in the open world. You encounter a lvl20. He attacks you. You don't fight back as you know that you won't win. But guess what? He doesn't kill you either. He takes away half/more than half of your health and then stops fighting you. Now you can't quest anymore as you're HP is so low. You'll be forced to use food, bandages etc. Once you're back to full, he does it again. How would you fix this issue with the current corruption system?

    Yeah I've thought about this. It is my opinion that if you are willing to commit to attacking a non-combatant, then you should be all-in and try to kill him. So I would be fine if Intrepid decided to change the trigger for becoming corrupted from killing a non-combatant to attacking a non-combatant.

    However, this raises some other concerns. Especially with mining/harvesting scarce resources (which Intrepid has cited as a main reason for engaging in open world PvP). We don't want a lvl 10 alt to waltz in and start mining valuable resources while others have to fight for it. Basically, the lvl 10 will know that he will cause massive corruption penalties to the lvl 50s that are killing him to protect the scarce resources, and he will just keep on coming back every time he dies, stacking corruption on to the people defending the resource. Previously, you would've been able to perma-stun him and disrupt him from gathering the resource without getting corrupted, however, now this would make you gain corruption. A solution to this is to only put scarce resources in zones that force everyone inside to flag as combatants. I'm not sure if Intrepid is already planning to do this or not, but it would make sense. It's a win-win in my opinion because it would be interesting to have dangerous, high level areas where there are only combatants allowed.

    There is no way it could ever be corruption on attack... there would be no open world pvp if it was lol. That would make it so the only way to attack someone would be if they manually made themselves a combatant before you attacked. If I'm a non-combatant and I attack a non-combatant, I would become corrupted. Wouldn't work.

    There would still be open world PvP. The end result is the same if you kill the target. The only difference is that you would be committed to killing the target if you get corruption upon attack.
  • XylsXyls Member, Alpha Two
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.
    We are recruiting PvPers!
  • bigepeen wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    A lot of you think that the corruption system is more than sufficient as is. It isn't. There are a ton of ways to bypass corruption. I'll state one such example and I want you @Mojottv , @Dolyem , @Bricktop , @bigepeen , to tell me how the corruption system will address it.

    Say you're a lvl10 questing in the open world. You encounter a lvl20. He attacks you. You don't fight back as you know that you won't win. But guess what? He doesn't kill you either. He takes away half/more than half of your health and then stops fighting you. Now you can't quest anymore as you're HP is so low. You'll be forced to use food, bandages etc. Once you're back to full, he does it again. How would you fix this issue with the current corruption system?

    Yeah I've thought about this. It is my opinion that if you are willing to commit to attacking a non-combatant, then you should be all-in and try to kill him. So I would be fine if Intrepid decided to change the trigger for becoming corrupted from killing a non-combatant to attacking a non-combatant.

    However, this raises some other concerns. Especially with mining/harvesting scarce resources (which Intrepid has cited as a main reason for engaging in open world PvP). We don't want a lvl 10 alt to waltz in and start mining valuable resources while others have to fight for it. Basically, the lvl 10 will know that he will cause massive corruption penalties to the lvl 50s that are killing him to protect the scarce resources, and he will just keep on coming back every time he dies, stacking corruption on to the people defending the resource. Previously, you would've been able to perma-stun him and disrupt him from gathering the resource without getting corrupted, however, now this would make you gain corruption. A solution to this is to only put scarce resources in zones that force everyone inside to flag as combatants. I'm not sure if Intrepid is already planning to do this or not, but it would make sense. It's a win-win in my opinion because it would be interesting to have dangerous, high level areas where there are only combatants allowed.

    There is no way it could ever be corruption on attack... there would be no open world pvp if it was lol. That would make it so the only way to attack someone would be if they manually made themselves a combatant before you attacked. If I'm a non-combatant and I attack a non-combatant, I would become corrupted. Wouldn't work.

    There would still be open world PvP. The end result is the same if you kill the target. The only difference is that you would be committed to killing the target if you get corruption upon attack.

    It could solve the problem but it will be quite difficult to implement correctly.
  • XylsXyls Member, Alpha Two
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    A lot of you think that the corruption system is more than sufficient as is. It isn't. There are a ton of ways to bypass corruption. I'll state one such example and I want you @Mojottv , @Dolyem , @Bricktop , @bigepeen , to tell me how the corruption system will address it.

    Say you're a lvl10 questing in the open world. You encounter a lvl20. He attacks you. You don't fight back as you know that you won't win. But guess what? He doesn't kill you either. He takes away half/more than half of your health and then stops fighting you. Now you can't quest anymore as you're HP is so low. You'll be forced to use food, bandages etc. Once you're back to full, he does it again. How would you fix this issue with the current corruption system?

    Yeah I've thought about this. It is my opinion that if you are willing to commit to attacking a non-combatant, then you should be all-in and try to kill him. So I would be fine if Intrepid decided to change the trigger for becoming corrupted from killing a non-combatant to attacking a non-combatant.

    However, this raises some other concerns. Especially with mining/harvesting scarce resources (which Intrepid has cited as a main reason for engaging in open world PvP). We don't want a lvl 10 alt to waltz in and start mining valuable resources while others have to fight for it. Basically, the lvl 10 will know that he will cause massive corruption penalties to the lvl 50s that are killing him to protect the scarce resources, and he will just keep on coming back every time he dies, stacking corruption on to the people defending the resource. Previously, you would've been able to perma-stun him and disrupt him from gathering the resource without getting corrupted, however, now this would make you gain corruption. A solution to this is to only put scarce resources in zones that force everyone inside to flag as combatants. I'm not sure if Intrepid is already planning to do this or not, but it would make sense. It's a win-win in my opinion because it would be interesting to have dangerous, high level areas where there are only combatants allowed.

    There is no way it could ever be corruption on attack... there would be no open world pvp if it was lol. That would make it so the only way to attack someone would be if they manually made themselves a combatant before you attacked. If I'm a non-combatant and I attack a non-combatant, I would become corrupted. Wouldn't work.

    There would still be open world PvP. The end result is the same if you kill the target. The only difference is that you would be committed to killing the target if you get corruption upon attack.

    But that is way too punishing for groups trying to initiate pvp. Let's say group A has 25 people and is in the best farm spot. Group B has 20 people and wants to take that farm spot. Group B attacks group A. Group A expects the attack and immediately attacks back. It's now a 25vs20 fight. So not only is Group B fighting more people, but they are also going to be hit with corruption penalties whether they win or lose. No one would ever initiate fight over world bosses or farming spots unless they have way more people. That system would hurt smaller groups and promote zergs.
    We are recruiting PvPers!
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.

    Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems.

    Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves.

    Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.
  • XylsXyls Member, Alpha Two
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.

    Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems.

    Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves.

    Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.

    You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't.
    We are recruiting PvPers!
  • Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.

    Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems.

    Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves.

    Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.

    You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't.

    Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW.

    All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do.
  • CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.

    Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems.

    Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves.

    Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.

    You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't.

    Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW.

    All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do.

    I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Mojottv wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.

    Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems.

    Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves.

    Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.

    You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't.

    Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW.

    All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do.

    I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it

    Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right?

    I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that.
  • CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Mojottv wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Xyls

    So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption?

    Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable.

    As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.

    Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green.

    They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.

    But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy.

    Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.

    Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

    I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.

    I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.

    I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.

    Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems.

    Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves.

    Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.

    You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't.

    Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW.

    All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do.

    I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it

    Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right?

    I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that.

    Ofcourse it occured, so what? but it was punishable and it wasn't often and you had ways to deal with it. If you want safe space, where big bad griefer cant catch you, best option is to play games without pvp at all, like WOW or other bullshit carebear mmo, where only pvp is when two players mutually negotiate the terms and conditions of their duel, then one proposes and other accepts the invitation to throw down, after which they bid good day to each other and go on on their happy life fishing or weaving or knitting or whatever the f they do in hello kitty island adventure...

    What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing?
  • VyrakaVyraka Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @CaptnChuck

    This is an open world MMORPG. Having other players help you with griefing is absolutely the way to go. I think it's in some way encouraged. It's got all the ingredients for roleplay. Bully, wimp, hero(es) to come save the day.

    It sounds like you are expecting AoC to be like a schoolyard playground and hope that teacher (Intrepid) intervenes from you getting bullied versus actually going out and making friends.

    Seriously though, do you plan on soloing the whole game? Or do you plan on joining a guild? If you joined a guild and there was a bully, would you take action with others to defend your guildmates or would you just sit there and say the system will take care of it?
    Axiom-Guild-Signature-Vyraka.png
  • Xyls wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Xyls wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    A lot of you think that the corruption system is more than sufficient as is. It isn't. There are a ton of ways to bypass corruption. I'll state one such example and I want you @Mojottv , @Dolyem , @Bricktop , @bigepeen , to tell me how the corruption system will address it.

    Say you're a lvl10 questing in the open world. You encounter a lvl20. He attacks you. You don't fight back as you know that you won't win. But guess what? He doesn't kill you either. He takes away half/more than half of your health and then stops fighting you. Now you can't quest anymore as you're HP is so low. You'll be forced to use food, bandages etc. Once you're back to full, he does it again. How would you fix this issue with the current corruption system?

    Yeah I've thought about this. It is my opinion that if you are willing to commit to attacking a non-combatant, then you should be all-in and try to kill him. So I would be fine if Intrepid decided to change the trigger for becoming corrupted from killing a non-combatant to attacking a non-combatant.

    However, this raises some other concerns. Especially with mining/harvesting scarce resources (which Intrepid has cited as a main reason for engaging in open world PvP). We don't want a lvl 10 alt to waltz in and start mining valuable resources while others have to fight for it. Basically, the lvl 10 will know that he will cause massive corruption penalties to the lvl 50s that are killing him to protect the scarce resources, and he will just keep on coming back every time he dies, stacking corruption on to the people defending the resource. Previously, you would've been able to perma-stun him and disrupt him from gathering the resource without getting corrupted, however, now this would make you gain corruption. A solution to this is to only put scarce resources in zones that force everyone inside to flag as combatants. I'm not sure if Intrepid is already planning to do this or not, but it would make sense. It's a win-win in my opinion because it would be interesting to have dangerous, high level areas where there are only combatants allowed.

    There is no way it could ever be corruption on attack... there would be no open world pvp if it was lol. That would make it so the only way to attack someone would be if they manually made themselves a combatant before you attacked. If I'm a non-combatant and I attack a non-combatant, I would become corrupted. Wouldn't work.

    There would still be open world PvP. The end result is the same if you kill the target. The only difference is that you would be committed to killing the target if you get corruption upon attack.

    But that is way too punishing for groups trying to initiate pvp. Let's say group A has 25 people and is in the best farm spot. Group B has 20 people and wants to take that farm spot. Group B attacks group A. Group A expects the attack and immediately attacks back. It's now a 25vs20 fight. So not only is Group B fighting more people, but they are also going to be hit with corruption penalties whether they win or lose. No one would ever initiate fight over world bosses or farming spots unless they have way more people. That system would hurt smaller groups and promote zergs.

    I see your point. It does give the initiators a disadvantage. Also, you can kill a corrupted as a non-combatant, so the defenders wouldn't even become combatants (which btw I think should be changed, you should still have to flag as a combatant to attack a corrupted). So anyway, I agree that asking your guild for help is better.
  • BricktopBricktop Member, Alpha Two
    I remember the good old days when a high level killing you as a low level meant you asked your friends for help or waited 5 minutes for them to get bored and leave, but now it's apparently griefing and a massive problem.

    I'd prefer it if you stopped tagging me in your posts. If you haven't noticed I don't really engage with you any more. I feel as if you are incredibly unreasonable and get invested in a forum argument to the point where you are attacking people and name calling. You did it to me about Stevens definition of PvX and if PvPers would need crafters and all this nonsense and you ended up being wrong, and I have seen you do it to several others. KILL THOSE WHO DISAGREE type of thing. You supposedly read what other people try and tell you about open world games and you completely throw all of it out the window to try and suggest things that take away from the open world and the entire vision of the game. It's not the devs job to handhold every player and make sure they have a "good consensual PvP" (Give me a break) experience and also kill all the bosses and get the best gear, because that's not the game they are trying to make, it's painfully obvious because they have said that exactly.

    I hope you have a good time in AoC, but everything I read that you tell us tells me you won't be happy at launch.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    @Vyraka Read my replies first. Not everyone can join a guild and have guild mates to come and help them deal with griefing. Not everyone has friends that play MMOs with them. Sometimes you start out solo and then you garner friends and join guilds at some point. If you aren't able to enjoy the game before you reach that point, cuz some idiot ruined your experience by griefing you and nobody was there to help you out, then that isn't good gameplay. Sometimes gameplay should take precedence over realism or social bonding or whatever.

    Griefing should NEVER be something that is left to be solved by the players themselves. If you think so, then I'm afraid you're simply too naive. What happens if you happen to play at a time when not many people are online? Do you just accept your fate and do nothing? What happens if you join the game as a new player with no community and intend to join one as you progress through the world? Do you just accept that no one is going to help you cuz you don't have in-game friends/guilds yet? If you think so, then I really have nothing more to say as you simply don't have the ability to look at other perspectives and understand when another is better than yours.

    Wait and watch, Intrepid will solve griefing through the corruption system itself. They won't be leaving it to players as they have the common sense that you lack.

    Stop living in the 2000s, this era is different.
  • Mojottv wrote: »

    What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing?

    @Mojottv

    I don't have one and I never said that I did. I merely stated a problem. Its upto Intrepid to find a solution and I'm sure that they will.

    Griefing is basically harassment/intentionally ruining someone's in-game experience through methods that were unintended by game devs. There are many different variants of it that exist in different games but i'm only concerned with two in AoC. The first one is inting in PvP/PvPvE. And the second one is open world harassment which is what the situation I mentioned above comes under.
  • VyrakaVyraka Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @Vyraka Read my replies first. Not everyone can join a guild and have guild mates to come and help them deal with griefing. Not everyone has friends that play MMOs with them. Sometimes you start out solo and then you garner friends and join guilds at some point. If you aren't able to enjoy the game before you reach that point, cuz some idiot ruined your experience by griefing you and nobody was there to help you out, then that isn't good gameplay. Sometimes gameplay should take precedence over realism or social bonding or whatever.

    Griefing should NEVER be something that is left to be solved by the players themselves. If you think so, then I'm afraid you're simply too naive. What happens if you happen to play at a time when not many people are online? Do you just accept your fate and do nothing? What happens if you join the game as a new player with no community and intend to join one as you progress through the world? Do you just accept that no one is going to help you cuz you don't have in-game friends/guilds yet? If you think so, then I really have nothing more to say as you simply don't have the ability to look at other perspectives and understand when another is better than yours.

    Wait and watch, Intrepid will solve griefing through the corruption system itself. They won't be leaving it to players as they have the common sense that you lack.

    Stop living in the 2000s, this era is different.

    Wow! You have your mind set there of who I am and who I know. Not to mention a few other things, but I'll be nice and not psychoanalyze.

    I always join games solo, sometimes I make friends, sometimes I don't. When I found out about this game, AoC, one of the first things I did was look at the Guild Forums to find a guild that suited me. I didn't know any of those players, and I am still getting to know them now. I intentionally made it my mission to make friends before the game started so that I was in a better place for when it launched. The way I see it - I have at least a good 1-2 years of team building experience ahead of me.

    Like I said, I've played games solo before and been randomly targeted and killed via PVP. It stings! In the beginning, I probably reacted like you and cried about it, but as time went on, I grew up and learned how to deal with it.

    Griefers are like cats with mice. The louder the mouse squeaks and tries to get away, the more the cat pounces and bites. Once the mouse stops moving and squeaking, the cat gets bored and moves on. I'm not saying that you need to play dead, but think about how you react. If you continually "squeak", you'll constantly be a target.

    I've learned to shrug it off, and have actually become friends who people who randomly killed me. Some did it just to see if they could, some were indiscriminate on who they killed, but once I made it clear that it didn't bother me, it stopped.

    I have to laugh at the stop living in the 2000s comment. Mankind is the same as they were thousands of years ago. Nothing is different. We are only tool makers, and the only thing that changes are the tools.

    Stop pushing people away by countering everything they say and try to join a guild while it's early.
    Axiom-Guild-Signature-Vyraka.png
  • CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Mojottv wrote: »

    What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing?

    @Mojottv

    I don't have one and I never said that I did. I merely stated a problem. Its upto Intrepid to find a solution and I'm sure that they will.

    Griefing is basically harassment/intentionally ruining someone's in-game experience through methods that were unintended by game devs. There are many different variants of it that exist in different games but i'm only concerned with two in AoC. The first one is inting in PvP/PvPvE. And the second one is open world harassment which is what the situation I mentioned above comes under.

    See our definition of griefing is quite different. I consider griefing is continuously abusing systems to ruin gameplay for specific person or group of people. if someone random runs by and kills you, its not griefing... thats the problem with carebear mentality, that they need "safe space" so that you wouldnt get bullied...god forbit you feel some negative emotion during game play.. i think you should accept the fact that the world is not safe and you need to learn to deal with it
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Mojottv wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Mojottv wrote: »

    What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing?

    @Mojottv

    I don't have one and I never said that I did. I merely stated a problem. Its upto Intrepid to find a solution and I'm sure that they will.

    Griefing is basically harassment/intentionally ruining someone's in-game experience through methods that were unintended by game devs. There are many different variants of it that exist in different games but i'm only concerned with two in AoC. The first one is inting in PvP/PvPvE. And the second one is open world harassment which is what the situation I mentioned above comes under.

    See our definition of griefing is quite different. I consider griefing is continuously abusing systems to ruin gameplay for specific person or group of people. if someone random runs by and kills you, its not griefing... thats the problem with carebear mentality, that they need "safe space" so that you wouldnt get bullied...god forbit you feel some negative emotion during game play.. i think you should accept the fact that the world is not safe and you need to learn to deal with it

    @Mojottv Are you blind? I literally said UNINTENDED in my definition.

    Killing players is obviously NOT griefing, unless you're doing it consistently, which you can't cuz of the corruption system.

    I even said this a couple of replies back. Killing a single player 3 or 4 times isn't griefing. But more than that, then we approach the dark area called griefing.

    The situation that I stated above is not intended. High level players are not supposed to attack players and NOT kill them, and then repeat it over and over again, essentially causing low level players to not be able to quest properly. I highly recommend you understand the context of my argument first before you type.

    Here you go, I quoted myself for you so that you can read it properly this time around. I hate it when people type without reading my replies properly.
    CaptnChuck wrote: »

    Say you're a lvl10 questing in the open world. You encounter a lvl20. He attacks you. You don't fight back as you know that you won't win. But guess what? He doesn't kill you either. He takes away half/more than half of your health and then stops fighting you. Now you can't quest anymore as your HP is so low. You'll be forced to use food, bandages etc. Once you're back to full, he does it again. How would you fix this issue with the current corruption system?

  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Oh boy. Yet another guy who doesn't understand the context of my replies. I was talking about THIS situation.
    CaptnChuck wrote: »

    Say you're a lvl10 questing in the open world. You encounter a lvl20. He attacks you. You don't fight back as you know that you won't win. But guess what? He doesn't kill you either. He takes away half/more than half of your health and then stops fighting you. Now you can't quest anymore as your HP is so low. You'll be forced to use food, bandages etc. Once you're back to full, he does it again. How would you fix this issue with the current corruption system?

    Please don't make me repeat myself again. If you, @Vyraka , think that THIS problem should be solved by the players themselves and not by Intrepid, then I really have nothing more to say. You're naive and beyond reasoning.

    There are several ways to work around the corruption system. None of these workarounds should be left to be solved by the playerbase. All of them should be solved and ironed out by Intrepid themselves. That is all I have to say.
  • BricktopBricktop Member, Alpha Two
    This scenario you describe can and will happen. You describe it as a problem, where as many of my friends and guild members would call it "Part of the game". If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO? Unless of course you want to kill off the open world nature of the game.

    You are so smug and condescending to everybody else, but can't for the life of you grasp the basic concepts of this game. If someone is "Greifing" you as you like to call it, leave the area and do something else with your time that doesn't involve changing the entire game to suit you.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Bricktop wrote: »
    If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO?

    Yea my bad @Bricktop . I'm sure that that is a FUN experience for other people. I'm the ONLY one who won't enjoy that. Who doesn't enjoy being griefed by someone, who's of a higher level than you, and not being able to do anything about it? Everyone except me I guess.

    Jesus, what kind of people am I talking with. It feels like I'm talking to children.

    Some people ENJOY ruining a person's experience. It isn't "wasting time to them". They enjoy the other person's sadness/dissapointment/anger. I can't believe that you think that that's ok and should be allowed in game.

    I vehemently disagree with you. Killing players is fine, but continuous griefing? Hell no.
  • BricktopBricktop Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO?

    Yea my bad @Bricktop . I'm sure that that is a FUN experience for other people. I'm the ONLY one who won't enjoy that.

    Jesus, what kind of people am I talking with. It feels like I'm talking to children.

    Some people ENJOY ruining a person's experience. It isn't "wasting time to them". They enjoy the other person's sadness/dissapointment/anger. I can't believe that you think that that's ok and should be allowed in game. I vehemently disagree with you. Killing players is fine, but continuous griefing? Hell no.

    Yes they do, and it's all just part of the open world experience to me chucky.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Bricktop wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO?

    Yea my bad @Bricktop . I'm sure that that is a FUN experience for other people. I'm the ONLY one who won't enjoy that.

    Jesus, what kind of people am I talking with. It feels like I'm talking to children.

    Some people ENJOY ruining a person's experience. It isn't "wasting time to them". They enjoy the other person's sadness/dissapointment/anger. I can't believe that you think that that's ok and should be allowed in game. I vehemently disagree with you. Killing players is fine, but continuous griefing? Hell no.

    Yes they do, and it's all just part of the open world experience to me chucky.

    Listen brickhead, it ain't. Just because the game is open world, it shouldn't support negative behavior like that.

    And guess what? It won't. This situation that I suggested, will be addressed by Intrepid and won't be left to be dealt with by players. I'll PM you then to see your reaction. Can't wait.
  • BricktopBricktop Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO?

    Yea my bad @Bricktop . I'm sure that that is a FUN experience for other people. I'm the ONLY one who won't enjoy that.

    Jesus, what kind of people am I talking with. It feels like I'm talking to children.

    Some people ENJOY ruining a person's experience. It isn't "wasting time to them". They enjoy the other person's sadness/dissapointment/anger. I can't believe that you think that that's ok and should be allowed in game. I vehemently disagree with you. Killing players is fine, but continuous griefing? Hell no.

    Yes they do, and it's all just part of the open world experience to me chucky.

    Listen brickhead, it ain't. Just because the game is open world, it shouldn't support negative behavior like that.

    And guess what? It won't. This situation that I suggested, will be addressed by Intrepid and won't be left to be dealt with by players. I'll PM you then to see your reaction. Can't wait.

    Haha you are a very silly person. Call people childish and then the next post say you are gonna do some ultra childish action. Have fun with that man
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    Bricktop wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO?

    Yea my bad @Bricktop . I'm sure that that is a FUN experience for other people. I'm the ONLY one who won't enjoy that.

    Jesus, what kind of people am I talking with. It feels like I'm talking to children.

    Some people ENJOY ruining a person's experience. It isn't "wasting time to them". They enjoy the other person's sadness/dissapointment/anger. I can't believe that you think that that's ok and should be allowed in game. I vehemently disagree with you. Killing players is fine, but continuous griefing? Hell no.

    Yes they do, and it's all just part of the open world experience to me chucky.

    Listen brickhead, it ain't. Just because the game is open world, it shouldn't support negative behavior like that.

    And guess what? It won't. This situation that I suggested, will be addressed by Intrepid and won't be left to be dealt with by players. I'll PM you then to see your reaction. Can't wait.

    Haha you are a very silly person.
    That's what you say when you don't have a comeback.
    Bricktop wrote: »
    If a level 50 wants to follow around a level 30 and smack him for 4 hours and keep him at 10% HP, that's the biggest waste of life I have ever heard of, but also his prerogative. Just because it isn't fun for you doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. Why do you get to dictate how that person has fun in an open world MMO?

    This para right here proves to me that you're beyond reason. Its just appalling to me that people like you think that its ok to negatively impact a player's experience like that, for HOURS on end, and not do anything about it.

    Just joined the game and have no friends that play with you or a guild that you're a part of? Well I guess you just have to resign yourself to your fate then.

    Did you just decide to play the game at an unpopular time? Sorry buddy, you're in the same boat as well.

    Unbelievable.

    Thank god that you ain't designing any online games.

    Even your buddy, @bigepeen , understood the issue. Heck, he even came up with a possible solution for it.
  • TyrantorTyrantor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    I'm confused @CaptnChuck you're the guy who "likes PvP" and does super elite PvE but all of the scenarios you come up with in defense if limiting PvP or "problems" with PvP makes everything sound like every engagement is going to be solo players or equal group sizes. How do you plan to get invited to that super elite mob killing if you're not part of something bigger than "I" in the game?

    Your concern is 1 player attacking you? That's really the point I'm hearing here? "ONE GUY RUINS MY DAY". Do none of your super elite PVE killers have higher levels to come save you?

    See the part about big boy pants you just can't get away from, if you actually use the game in a social way your friends or as you like to call them "the others" might show up and help you out, hell maybe they'll even group with you so the games not just some single player experince for ya.

    If you can't muster anyone to help you and your plea's for help in the bounty hunter/"good guy" realm fails you could always go hide in town and wait for the super elite NPC guard to save you.

    You project these irrational fears about how the game is going to play out, most likely because of how you see yourself interacting with other people. Change your attitudee and maybe that same level 20 instead decides to power level you, or give you gear who knows maybe you'll make a friend before the game releases here on the forums if you can just for one second be open minded or simply realize that you're not some wanna-be attorney getting a law degree on a forum for a game that you don't even play yet... just a thought.

    Note: Just on this SINGLE page of this SINGLE thread you account for 12 of 28 replies. It's disturbing.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    @Tyrantor Man I'm done with you. I read the first two paras of your reply and I understood that you didn't read/understand the situation that I mentioned. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your reply.

    I'm a PvPer. But I don't agree with having Open world PvP being paraded around as some sort of an excuse for things like PvE difficulty, griefing etc.

    I want to PvP against people that enjoy it. If my opponents don't enjoy it, they won't give it their all, and if they don't give it their all, I won't feel good about winning.

    I just want most types of players to be able to play this game and enjoy it. That's it. The more the people that play the game, the better it gets for me, as I'll have more people to beat.

    Having easy PvE content, or easy methods to grief other players, is simply not going to attract a lot of people to the game. Hence why I make these posts.

    I have the ability to look through other perspectives, something you guys clearly lack.
  • Honestly, RPKing is part of the game. it is something that is put in on purpose, and unless it makes the game impossible to play, they wont change it.
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