Open world raids

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Comments

  • Tragnar wrote: »
    Also I literally don't understand that the instanced PvE cannot be limited to have only one active instance at a time. This keeps the scarcity of it (to be 1 on server) and creates another bottleneck - not to say the the top-end is exclusionary enough as it is.
    One at a time could be an interesting mechanic.

    I wouldn't be that keen on one instance every day or anything like that, but one at a time could make for interesting content.

    I'm sure there are people out there that will say something along the lines of "the only interesting content is if you can attack people while they are taking on PvE encounters", which is basically all the argument against a limited number of instances comes down to (an argument on par with "but I want to attack the player that is 45 levels below me" in terms of dickishness). However, these people need to understand that not all competitive content needs to be about who can kill the other side the best.

    Content that only rewards the guild that is fastest with PvE content is a fantastic form of competition, and I can see the same of racing to an instance entrance the fastest - especially if you needed a specific number of players in your raid to open the instance up.
  • Tragnar wrote: »
    If anyone can fill in statistics of top-end kills from final fantasy I'd be glad.

    The best I could find on FFLogs was that there are 567 total Parses for Summoner on TEA "The Epic of Alexander"
    Currently. I would imagine that quite a bit of that number is the same people trying to get better parses or re-clearing. I don't know where you would find % of population that has cleared it. I know from being a member of the FFXIV community myself that the population is mostly a bunch of WEEBs who will report you are the first sign of criticism. The % of people who do savage and Ultimate prog is very low. As a pugger I see a lot of the same people. I would expect that the number of groups that has finished TEA is lower than that 567.

    Also I would love to be wrong about AoC when it comes to good raids. I want nothing more than for AoC to succeed in every feature it has. I was just saying early that I don't expect good raid bosses. Especially in open world. If AoC does have some good instanced raid bosses that would be awesome.

    I would be worried that the gear in AoC would not be compatible with hard fights. What I mean is that in Wow/FFXIV the dev team has very tight control over what gear a party has going into an encounter. This is a major factor in what makes the encounter hard. You often times just barley have the gear to get the boss downed with seconds between success and enrage. Open world MMOs tend to not control gear so granularity. Anyone who has raided a tier knows the feeling of being able to skip mechanics after a few weeks into a patch once the raid gets geared. I could see AoC having a problem with people being over geared the first time they see a boss. Not the end of the world just a worry.
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  • Well if raids are going to be about speedrunning then I think we are once again at easy content - the best example of that content I can give you is currently ongoing Classic WoW - on one side it is amazing to see raids being pushed to be fully cleared of bosses under 20minutes when the average guild it takes at least 2hours.

    It creates totally different dynamic in raiding that is purely thanks to 3rd party leaderboards (warcraftlogs.com). This is however possible literally because over 90% of the populace is fully capable to clear that content

  • Now is a good time to get the domain "aoclogs.com". I know the Devs don't want parsers, but if they leave any cracks in the system. The there will be parsers...
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  • Everything is subject to change but if I remember correctly there will be 80% open world dungeons and 20% of instances, the most challenging one will be instances.
    They will test AI during horde mod but they are currently planning to test for raid a scaling mechanism where difficulty and rewards scale with how fast you killed the previous boss .

    And they said that there will be a tag system where the first group need 40% while the second one need 60% to get the loot.
    But nothing has been said for more than 2 groups and nothing about what happens if the second group kill the first one while they have already done 40% ...
    Beta testers will need to test it.
  • @Noaani I see you purposely ignored my proposal I made to you and the other epic npc encounter blowhards. I take it that by denial of response you and the rest of the lackies here simply want safe farming as has been pointed out and it has nothing to do with "top tier guild PvE content" and more to do with "Top tier loot content away from PvP".

    Any argument the three of you make going forward is here on out pure bullshit, half truths and/or lies to push a safe PvE agenda.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • Tyrantor wrote: »
    @Noaani I see you purposely ignored my proposal I made to you and the other epic npc encounter blowhards. I take it that by denial of response you and the rest of the lackies here simply want safe farming as has been pointed out and it has nothing to do with "top tier guild PvE content" and more to do with "Top tier loot content away from PvP".

    Any argument the three of you make going forward is here on out pure bullshit, half truths and/or lies to push a safe PvE agenda.

    HOW DARE YOU! WHAT DO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND?! ALL they want is to have fun and experience this game and all of its content, without other people ruining their fun. These poor guys just want to have fun...ideally by getting best gear and everything and then to be able to kill everyone else, all those scum other players... :D
  • WarthWarth Member
    edited September 16
    Tragnar wrote: »
    Currently in the latest raid in WoW the last boss has been on the hardest difficulty only ~1640 times (1240 horde, 400alliance) which includes all actual boosted players that payed with gold for that kill (to get achievements, mounts from the whole raid).

    Now sure how you got the ~1640 Number.
    However, Mythic N'zoth was killed by about 2350 Guilds, which equals 8.9% of the Players that attempted the Raid in a Mythic/Heroic Setting. 38.7% killed the first boss in the Mythic Raid. (74% and 61% for the Heroic versions).
    Tragnar wrote: »
    So if you go even with the minimum of projected active players (based on scanning tools to find active characters) being above few million then you get only around ~0.05% of the population to participate in killing the hardest boss (currently).

    I'm not sure about the accuracy of this number. I didn't look into closely enough to support or disprove that. So let's just roll with it.

    It kinda proofs a point. Why should Intrepid waste valuable resources pre-release for content, only a fraction of the player base even cares about/attempts, especially when it also goes against their core game design philosophy?

    Seems like that would be a very poor way to spend your resources.
  • Warth wrote: »
    Now sure how you got the ~1640 Number.
    However, Mythic N'zoth was killed by about 2350 Guilds, which equals 8.9% of the Players that attempted the Raid in a Mythic/Heroic Setting. 38.7% killed the first boss in the Mythic Raid. (74% and 61% for the Heroic versions).

    I took these number 2-3 months after the release of the raid. Right now the raid is almost 8months old and the power curve from other places has literally skyrocketted once again and as I said before, there are literally every week gold carries for mounts and achievements. Also the gap of difficulty between heroic and mythic is pretty extreme.

    As to show how @Tyrantor literally still doesnt understand the point we are making. So let me reiterate for hopefully another chance for him to understand the meaning behind these words.

    If you allow PvP to happen and at the same time you want to keep this quote from Steven true:
    It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content..

    then you just need prevent the presence of more than 40 people, because if you don't then it is literally impossible to create challenging encounter that only "single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content".

    I understand guys that you come from PvP-centric open world games, but you should wake up, because PvE-centric open world games are possible and Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both. I wouldn't be surprised if you ragequit the game after finding out that you are punished for unanswered PvP via corruption system.
  • BricktopBricktop Member
    edited September 16
    Tragnar wrote: »
    I understand guys that you come from PvP-centric open world games, but you should wake up, because PvE-centric open world games are possible and Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both. I wouldn't be surprised if you ragequit the game after finding out that you are punished for unanswered PvP via corruption system.

    Hahaha A PvE centric game isn't what they are making @Tragnar. That's why the world changes on node sieges and not killing dragons. Everybody in this thread who PvPs understands how the corruption system works, half of us already played it in L2. I can assure you the only people who are gonna be ragequitting are PvE players (WoW raiders let's be honest) who are disappointed by the lack of instancing. Some of them have already been threatening to quit in this thread and the other one if they don't get their way and they slowly realize how much PvP is actually in the game. I would much rather see PvE players quit than the game get New Worlded.
  • Tragnar wrote: »
    Warth wrote: »
    Now sure how you got the ~1640 Number.
    However, Mythic N'zoth was killed by about 2350 Guilds, which equals 8.9% of the Players that attempted the Raid in a Mythic/Heroic Setting. 38.7% killed the first boss in the Mythic Raid. (74% and 61% for the Heroic versions).

    I took these number 2-3 months after the release of the raid. Right now the raid is almost 8months old and the power curve from other places has literally skyrocketted once again and as I said before, there are literally every week gold carries for mounts and achievements. Also the gap of difficulty between heroic and mythic is pretty extreme.

    As to show how @Tyrantor literally still doesnt understand the point we are making. So let me reiterate for hopefully another chance for him to understand the meaning behind these words.

    If you allow PvP to happen and at the same time you want to keep this quote from Steven true:
    It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content..

    then you just need prevent the presence of more than 40 people, because if you don't then it is literally impossible to create challenging encounter that only "single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content".

    I understand guys that you come from PvP-centric open world games, but you should wake up, because PvE-centric open world games are possible and Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both. I wouldn't be surprised if you ragequit the game after finding out that you are punished for unanswered PvP via corruption system.

    Thanks for the explanation of the background behind your statement. I didn't read through the entire post as it has lost all discussion value a long time ago.

    I personally believe as well, that Hard PvE Content in an open world setting is possible and i hope the bosses won't just be tank and spank

    I'm also all for very strict anti-zerg mechanics. The boss fight itself should be done with 40 members only. Good thing they would be quite easy to implement.

    Rest of the alliance should work on keeping the other raids from disturbing the attempt.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Tragnar wrote: »
    Warth wrote: »
    Now sure how you got the ~1640 Number.
    However, Mythic N'zoth was killed by about 2350 Guilds, which equals 8.9% of the Players that attempted the Raid in a Mythic/Heroic Setting. 38.7% killed the first boss in the Mythic Raid. (74% and 61% for the Heroic versions).

    I took these number 2-3 months after the release of the raid. Right now the raid is almost 8months old and the power curve from other places has literally skyrocketted once again and as I said before, there are literally every week gold carries for mounts and achievements. Also the gap of difficulty between heroic and mythic is pretty extreme.

    As to show how @Tyrantor literally still doesnt understand the point we are making. So let me reiterate for hopefully another chance for him to understand the meaning behind these words.

    If you allow PvP to happen and at the same time you want to keep this quote from Steven true:
    It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content..

    then you just need prevent the presence of more than 40 people, because if you don't then it is literally impossible to create challenging encounter that only "single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content".

    I understand guys that you come from PvP-centric open world games, but you should wake up, because PvE-centric open world games are possible and Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both. I wouldn't be surprised if you ragequit the game after finding out that you are punished for unanswered PvP via corruption system.

    Have you never played a PvX game before with open world bosses?

    Yes, you are supposed to do it when no one is attacking you.

    Even without direct pvp conflict, if you kill a open world boss, you are denying it to others which is a form of pvp in itself.

    There are no direct rewards for pvp. Pvp is something you can use to control objectives, some of which are pve ones. It's not the only way to control/secure objectives but it's an option.
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  • Bricktop wrote: »
    Kneczhevo wrote: »
    @Bricktop

    Not knocking you, friend. But Intrepid is making a PvX Sandbox MMORPG.

    I'm not trying to be condescending, but once you understand the concept, it will be clear. Again, I know this might be confusing and foreign (a lot of AoC is.), just get your head out of the box, and you will see the light. 😁

    I like you Knec, you make some solid posts around these forums that I've seen so far. I have played this exact type of game before in the form of Lineage 2 and Archeage and I feel very aware how the meta game will play out.

    The game is indeed PvX. PvX in that all systems are intertwined and dependent on 1 another. PvP, PvE, and crafting. You need to be able to do all of those things to find success in Ashes of Creation. To secure open world bosses you will need to be able to PvP other groups in order to secure the boss and make it safe for your group to kill. After you secure the area and kill the boss (PvE) it will drop crafting recipes and materials. You will need to utilize high level crafters to make the best gear in the game and reach an end game state. You can very easily see how it is PvX and all the systems are dependent on one another.

    You can apply this to pretty much any part of the game. Your guild will (possibly) fight for control of an open world dungeon entrance. Once you kill all the opposing guild members inside who you are at war with, your group starts to grind mobs inside the dungeon trying to get a recipe to drop or something along those lines. Your group will have to defend that grind spot and dungeon from other groups. You are PvPing and PvEing during this.

    I promise you this is very much what the devs meant when they said PvX. I agree it is confusing and foreign to a lot of people. I'm very confident you will understand though.

    In Black Desert Online you could flag at will on anyone without penalties. This was a common tactic used to protect farming lanes.

    I being a well geared Ninja would do as I pleased and could solo most 2v1 encounters and run and hide against anything too nasty.

    That being said;

    You could summon minor world bosses with a scroll, and pick up groups would form to maximize scroll efficiency, granted it's been almost about 2 years since I played BDO, but I never saw PVP break out in these areas in the two and a half years I played the game.

    Well that's not entirely true, it happened a couple of times and the aggressors got wrecked.

    🤷™️

    @Hurf Derfman I never played BDO Hurf, so I apologize that I can't envision what you are saying.

    I don't think you will be able to summon bosses at will in Ashes of Creation, so the world bosses in the game will absolutely be a place of contention between guilds. What would most likely happen is a long quest line to get a summoning item for the boss or something. PvP is gonna happen often and it will happen at a lot of PvE places such as dungeons and world bosses. We also need more information on the guild war mechanics. Are guild wars going to be a situation where they could run an extremely long amount of time? Or are they going to be settled in a 2 hour max window. If they do short guild wars like that it will cut down on world PvP quite a bit.
  • Not sure if its been said but GW2 has a mechanic were the more players that enter the mobs/events area the higher the mobs scale i.e. basic > veteran >elite > champion mobs.. a similar mechanic in AoC combined with the player v player element will probably lead to the mobs winning at the end of the day lol...
  • Malapapas wrote: »
    Not sure if its been said but GW2 has a mechanic were the more players that enter the mobs/events area the higher the mobs scale i.e. basic > veteran >elite > champion mobs.. a similar mechanic in AoC combined with the player v player element will probably lead to the mobs winning at the end of the day lol...

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Raids
    Bosses and mobs will not auto-scale based on group size.[13]

    I don't like flex raids personally. I want to boss that I fought to be the best version of that boss every time.
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  • @Bricktop oh don't get me wrong I fully expect PVP and I am absolutely here for it.

    I was just trying to point out that players can have agency and dictate edicate.

    Eh, that's what I get for posting while half in the bag.

    Hopefully guild Wars aren't some dumb gimmick limited to prime time.

    I would like the bosses to be enough of a challenge to wipe raids due to mechanics that need to be preformed well. Multiple phases ECT.

    Not just some Zerg DPS race.

    For some reason Sartharion with his lava waves and one shot void zones come to mind. His adds were pretty mean too. Or Sindragosa's ice tombs that forced the raid to run to cover behind a frozen player who needed heals and if he died you died.

    Since loot will supposadly be distributed to the group with the highest DPS, I would expect this to cut down on kill sniping and encourage people to let the boss reset before they make their own attempts.

    I am actually looking forward to the prospect of casting javelin on an enemy rogue trying to gank my healer and watching him stand in the glory of the dragon's fire with me.
  • Tyrantor wrote: »
    I see you purposely ignored my proposal I made to you and the other epic npc encounter blowhards. I take it that by denial of response you and the rest of the lackies here simply want safe farming as has been pointed out and it has nothing to do with "top tier guild PvE content" and more to do with "Top tier loot content away from PvP".

    Any argument the three of you make going forward is here on out pure bullshit, half truths and/or lies to push a safe PvE agenda.

    Actually, I didn't address it because you don't understand what is being asked, and I don't feel any need for your approval, nor for you to concede any point.

    You are not educated in PvE content enough to add value to this topic.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    edited September 17
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Tragnar wrote: »
    I understand guys that you come from PvP-centric open world games, but you should wake up, because PvE-centric open world games are possible and Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both. I wouldn't be surprised if you ragequit the game after finding out that you are punished for unanswered PvP via corruption system.

    Hahaha A PvE centric game isn't what they are making Tragnar. That's why the world changes on node sieges and not killing dragons. Everybody in this thread who PvPs understands how the corruption system works, half of us already played it in L2. I can assure you the only people who are gonna be ragequitting are PvE players (WoW raiders let's be honest) who are disappointed by the lack of instancing. Some of them have already been threatening to quit in this thread and the other one if they don't get their way and they slowly realize how much PvP is actually in the game. I would much rather see PvE players quit than the game get New Worlded.

    I agree that they are not making a PvE centric game too, and I also think Tragnar agrees. He was simply pointing out that your claim that the open world nature of Ashes doesn't indicate a PvP centric game as you earlier claimed.

    At least, that was my take on the post, and I agree with him.
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Kneczhevo wrote: »
    @Bricktop

    Not knocking you, friend. But Intrepid is making a PvX Sandbox MMORPG.

    I'm not trying to be condescending, but once you understand the concept, it will be clear. Again, I know this might be confusing and foreign (a lot of AoC is.), just get your head out of the box, and you will see the light. 😁

    I like you Knec, you make some solid posts around these forums that I've seen so far. I have played this exact type of game before in the form of Lineage 2 and Archeage and I feel very aware how the meta game will play out.

    The game is indeed PvX. PvX in that all systems are intertwined and dependent on 1 another. PvP, PvE, and crafting. You need to be able to do all of those things to find success in Ashes of Creation. To secure open world bosses you will need to be able to PvP other groups in order to secure the boss and make it safe for your group to kill. After you secure the area and kill the boss (PvE) it will drop crafting recipes and materials. You will need to utilize high level crafters to make the best gear in the game and reach an end game state. You can very easily see how it is PvX and all the systems are dependent on one another.

    You can apply this to pretty much any part of the game. Your guild will (possibly) fight for control of an open world dungeon entrance. Once you kill all the opposing guild members inside who you are at war with, your group starts to grind mobs inside the dungeon trying to get a recipe to drop or something along those lines. Your group will have to defend that grind spot and dungeon from other groups. You are PvPing and PvEing during this.

    I promise you this is very much what the devs meant when they said PvX. I agree it is confusing and foreign to a lot of people. I'm very confident you will understand though.

    In Black Desert Online you could flag at will on anyone without penalties. This was a common tactic used to protect farming lanes.

    I being a well geared Ninja would do as I pleased and could solo most 2v1 encounters and run and hide against anything too nasty.

    That being said;

    You could summon minor world bosses with a scroll, and pick up groups would form to maximize scroll efficiency, granted it's been almost about 2 years since I played BDO, but I never saw PVP break out in these areas in the two and a half years I played the game.

    Well that's not entirely true, it happened a couple of times and the aggressors got wrecked.

    🤷™️

    @Hurf Derfman I never played BDO Hurf, so I apologize that I can't envision what you are saying.

    I don't think you will be able to summon bosses at will in Ashes of Creation, so the world bosses in the game will absolutely be a place of contention between guilds. What would most likely happen is a long quest line to get a summoning item for the boss or something. PvP is gonna happen often and it will happen at a lot of PvE places such as dungeons and world bosses. We also need more information on the guild war mechanics. Are guild wars going to be a situation where they could run an extremely long amount of time? Or are they going to be settled in a 2 hour max window. If they do short guild wars like that it will cut down on world PvP quite a bit.

    I agree, there will be a lot of PvP take place in otherwise PvE locations. I think everyone here knows that and wants that.

    There will also be PvP happen in PvP only situations, and I think everyone here wants that too.

    The thing some of us also want though, are a few - literally just a few - areas where only PvE will happen.

    If done right, there will be PvP leading to these locations, and more PvP getting home from them.

    All it would mean is that there are a few encounters in the game where players can actually PvE properly, just as there are times in the game where people can PvP properly.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    The thing some of us also want though, are a few - literally just a few - areas where only PvE will happen.

    If done right, there will be PvP leading to these locations, and more PvP getting home from them.

    All it would mean is that there are a few encounters in the game where players can actually PvE properly, just as there are times in the game where people can PvP properly.

    Agreed, what I would not like is "bubbles" on that world map that are PvE only areas. I think I suggested in this thread or another thread about a week ago that doing something similar to the POE map system for top tier PVE raid bosses would be a possible solution.

    Having a "Map Device" that is fueled by tokens that drop from the push over world bosses would make a lot of sense. You could have the device in the guild hall or something. It could even allow clans to diversify there ranks. Have people who prefer PvP go fetch the map while the hard core raiders run it when they bring it home.
    CctsKnC.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    edited September 17
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The thing some of us also want though, are a few - literally just a few - areas where only PvE will happen.

    If done right, there will be PvP leading to these locations, and more PvP getting home from them.

    All it would mean is that there are a few encounters in the game where players can actually PvE properly, just as there are times in the game where people can PvP properly.

    Agreed, what I would not like is "bubbles" on that world map that are PvE only areas. I think I suggested in this thread or another thread about a week ago that doing something similar to the POE map system for top tier PVE raid bosses would be a possible solution.

    Having a "Map Device" that is fueled by tokens that drop from the push over world bosses would make a lot of sense. You could have the device in the guild hall or something. It could even allow clans to diversify there ranks. Have people who prefer PvP go fetch the map while the hard core raiders run it when they bring it home.

    I would love to see an MMO go all out with PoE's map system for end game content, it is an amazing way to present content, and is infinately expandable

    With the presence of corruption and portals in Ashes - I could even see it working really well from a lore perspective.

    Having a window where you need to get a map from one location in game to another is also a great idea - expecially if the map has a high currency value if sold to a vendor. It could become something that PvP players fight over for the coin, and PvE players fight over for the content.

    I wouldn't expect anything like that in this game though, but it is the best general framework for a way to present top end content I have seen in any game, and I seriously hope a full MMO attempts to take it on one day.

    Actually, I just wish GGG would turn their hand to a full MMO using PoE's map, passive tree, itemization and skill gem systems. That could be an amazing game - though they would need to add in proper currency.

    With how easily they dominated D3, I think GGG are actually the one developer that could produce an *actual* WoW killer if they turned their hand to MMO's.
  • Bricktop wrote: »
    Tragnar wrote: »
    I understand guys that you come from PvP-centric open world games, but you should wake up, because PvE-centric open world games are possible and Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both. I wouldn't be surprised if you ragequit the game after finding out that you are punished for unanswered PvP via corruption system.

    Hahaha A PvE centric game isn't what they are making @Tragnar. That's why the world changes on node sieges and not killing dragons. Everybody in this thread who PvPs understands how the corruption system works, half of us already played it in L2. I can assure you the only people who are gonna be ragequitting are PvE players (WoW raiders let's be honest) who are disappointed by the lack of instancing. Some of them have already been threatening to quit in this thread and the other one if they don't get their way and they slowly realize how much PvP is actually in the game. I would much rather see PvE players quit than the game get New Worlded.

    I would prefer if you read the whole post before answering, because it is a fact you did not.
    Tragnar wrote: »
    Ashes wants to be a blend of the two to allow the existence of both.
    If you make it possible for every place in the open world to be decided by PvP then you have literally no PvE in the game, because any kill of an NPC is a reward by your PvP status and most of the times is absolutely tied to be difficult only with PvP present during the fight
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    I see you purposely ignored my proposal I made to you and the other epic npc encounter blowhards. I take it that by denial of response you and the rest of the lackies here simply want safe farming as has been pointed out and it has nothing to do with "top tier guild PvE content" and more to do with "Top tier loot content away from PvP".

    Any argument the three of you make going forward is here on out pure bullshit, half truths and/or lies to push a safe PvE agenda.

    Actually, I didn't address it because you don't understand what is being asked, and I don't feel any need for your approval, nor for you to concede any point.

    You are not educated in PvE content enough to add value to this topic.
    Noaani wrote: »

    Very few people are asking for instances farming content.

    Some are, sure. But not most.

    What most people want are instances for the sake of having an actual PvE experience in Ashes that isn't interrupted by PvP.

    Well based on your own words, I'm offering you that an "actual PvE experince in ashes that ins't iterrupted by PvP"

    What you got wrong, apparently, is that you and everyone else is in FACT asking for instances farming content not " Very few"

    I don't need to understand PvE well to understand you just want a safe farming spot away from PvP regardless if you have to "risk" pvp to and fro.

    Thanks for your expert opinions on PvE and of course all the lies about why it's wanted.

    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • TyrantorTyrantor Member
    edited September 17
    Tragnar wrote: »
    If you make it possible for every place in the open world to be decided by PvP then you have literally no PvE in the game, because any kill of an NPC is a reward by your PvP status and most of the times is absolutely tied to be difficult only with PvP present during the fight

    I like the effort more lies to get that safe PvE. Of course you and @CaptnChuck understand game programming so well to make statements like these. Feel free to enlighten us with some actual knowledge on the subject, why can't it be done? Please prove how they can't design the AI in this game to be difficult with the pretense of PvP?

    Let me say this so maybe you can think about it before you reply.

    Not every PvE engagement in game is going to be interrupted by PvP even if players have the option to PvP, there will be days you likely never even experience PvP

    If you can not prove your statement above stop saying it. You know why? Because I can counter that argument the same way.

    Hey IS please reduce the number of dungeons and high level PvE content because there will not be enough skilled PVE players in this game to justify it, just a bunch of PvP all the time so don't waste time designing these things or instances, servers will be full of PvP players who have no use for such things. In fact don't even design AI content for us just let us gain exp from PvP. You know because they can't design good PvP if they're having to factor in AI and design skills around killing NPCs...

    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    edited September 17
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Well based on your own words, I'm offering you that an "actual PvE experince in ashes that ins't iterrupted by PvP"

    What you got wrong, apparently, is that you and everyone else is in FACT asking for instances farming content not " Very few"
    Any and all content in an MMO should offer up rewards appropriate to the time investment (there is no risk in an MMO, just time investment).

    Your suggestion did not take that in to account (in fact it deliberately threw it out the window) and as such is not worth serious consideration.

    What you are failing to understand is that the suggestion being put up would allow people to have exactly three encounters per week that they can kill without PvP. That is not content that you can farm - as once killed, there is nothing left to kill until next week.

    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    No wonder you don't want PvE without PvP.
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Not every PvE engagement in game is going to be interrupted by PvP even if players have the option to PvP, there will be days you likely never even experience PvP
    What you fail to understand is that when you have a big giant flashing light that says "best loot in the game here", everyone comes along to try and get it.

    Spawn timers and locations will be known within a few weeks of top level content spawning. Multiple guilds will be ready and waiting.

    When it comes to top end open world encounters, there is no such thing as no competition - even without PvP.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    This is without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. Stand out of fire, do DPS rotation, avoid 3 abilities, and win free gear is hard to you as opposed to playing against an actual thinking opponent with a brain who isn't completely scripted, researchable, and predictable. You are just being downright silly at this point.
  • Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    This is without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. Stand out of fire, do DPS rotation, avoid 3 abilities, and win free gear is hard to you as opposed to playing against an actual thinking opponent with a brain who isn't completely scripted, researchable, and predictable. You are just being downright silly at this point.

    Congratulations, you killed a trash mob.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    This is without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. Stand out of fire, do DPS rotation, avoid 3 abilities, and win free gear is hard to you as opposed to playing against an actual thinking opponent with a brain who isn't completely scripted, researchable, and predictable. You are just being downright silly at this point.

    Congratulations, you killed a trash mob.

    Congrats, I just killed most raid bosses. I Cleared all of SSC/TK and most of BT before i got bored of WoW and ended my time raiding. It's just not very challenging to me, sorry.
  • Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    This is without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. Stand out of fire, do DPS rotation, avoid 3 abilities, and win free gear is hard to you as opposed to playing against an actual thinking opponent with a brain who isn't completely scripted, researchable, and predictable. You are just being downright silly at this point.

    Congratulations, you killed a trash mob.

    Congrats, I just killed most raid bosses. I Cleared all of SSC/TK and most of BT before i got bored of WoW and ended my time raiding. It's just not very challenging to me, sorry.

    As I said, trash mobs.

    WoW raiding isn't really raiding.

    I assist my brothers guild with mythical raids in WoW on occasion, they are not hard. I've played I think five different classes (though I admit, never a tank), and it never takes me more than one pull to get the hang of both the new class and the new encounter - and that is without having ever leveled a character up in that game, or even owning an account other than a trial.

    Honestly, if WoW raids are the best we can hope for in regards to PvE in this game, I'll stay away from MMO's for a while. Fortunately, this game has a lot of ex-EQ2 developers making it.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    This is without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. Stand out of fire, do DPS rotation, avoid 3 abilities, and win free gear is hard to you as opposed to playing against an actual thinking opponent with a brain who isn't completely scripted, researchable, and predictable. You are just being downright silly at this point.

    Congratulations, you killed a trash mob.

    Congrats, I just killed most raid bosses. I Cleared all of SSC/TK and most of BT before i got bored of WoW and ended my time raiding. It's just not very challenging to me, sorry.

    As I said, trash mobs.

    WoW raiding isn't really raiding.

    I assist my brothers guild with mythical raids in WoW on occasion, they are not hard. I've played I think five different classes (though I admit, never a tank), and it never takes me more than one pull to get the hang of both the new class and the new encounter - and that is without having ever leveled a character up in that game, or even owning an account other than a trial.

    Honestly, if WoW raids are the best we can hope for in regards to PvE in this game, I'll stay away from MMO's for a while. Fortunately, this game has a lot of ex-EQ2 developers making it.

    Lol what is with PvErs and smugness. What is the purpose of this post exactly? Sorry my raids weren't good enough for you @Noaani . Im happy for your brothers WoW guild? The last thing we all want is for you to stay away from MMORPGs, seeing as you are incredibly important to all of us.
  • Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The real issue I think you have is that you know perfectly well that you are not cut out for real PvE content - no PvP players are. In my experience of both a PvE only game and a PvP centric game, PvE players are better suited to PvP than PvP players are to PvE.

    This is without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. Stand out of fire, do DPS rotation, avoid 3 abilities, and win free gear is hard to you as opposed to playing against an actual thinking opponent with a brain who isn't completely scripted, researchable, and predictable. You are just being downright silly at this point.

    Congratulations, you killed a trash mob.

    Congrats, I just killed most raid bosses. I Cleared all of SSC/TK and most of BT before i got bored of WoW and ended my time raiding. It's just not very challenging to me, sorry.

    As I said, trash mobs.

    WoW raiding isn't really raiding.

    I assist my brothers guild with mythical raids in WoW on occasion, they are not hard. I've played I think five different classes (though I admit, never a tank), and it never takes me more than one pull to get the hang of both the new class and the new encounter - and that is without having ever leveled a character up in that game, or even owning an account other than a trial.

    Honestly, if WoW raids are the best we can hope for in regards to PvE in this game, I'll stay away from MMO's for a while. Fortunately, this game has a lot of ex-EQ2 developers making it.

    Lol what is with PvErs and smugness. What is the purpose of this post exactly? Sorry my raids weren't good enough for you @Noaani . Im happy for your brothers WoW guild? The last thing we all want is for you to stay away from MMORPGs, seeing as you are incredibly important to all of us.
    Clearly you missed the point (likely on purpose) that I was saying WoW raids are in no way hard, and anyone that has raided at the top end of almost any other game is able to slip in to WoW raids and function just fine - even though the opposite is not at all true (it usually takes a top end WoW raider about 6 weeks to get up to speed in most other games, as there is more going on, and less artificial assistance).
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