Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
So have others brickhead. You're no different from @Tyrantor ; you two only have the ability to misunderstand others when their opinion differs from yours. You just keep reiterating the same points, over and over again. All your replies are just walls of text with no real meaning to them. Why are you a guild leader? You shouldn't be one. You're just damning your guild to fail.
That, explains your lack of social skills...
As much as I want to agree with you, with some of your comments, I find myself shunning them, and you. WTG.
My solution has been; don't feed the trolls. That's how I avoid griefers. Don't feed them. Sure, they are an inconvenience. But, I'm not going to give them satisfaction, and stoop to their level. And why I don't respond or reply to your posts.
I just continue on my way, and dream about a great game. And perhaps make some friends on the way, instead of being shunned and warned.
Would highly recommend you start to follow these rules more closely.
@Kneczhevo
My lack of social skills? You mean my complete intolerance for trolls? Yea sorry bud, I have zero tolerance for trolls. People like @Tyrantor, @Bricktop , @Mojottv , that don't know how to meaningfully continue a discussion, don't deserve respect of any kind. All they can do is misunderstand literally everyone that has a different opinion from theirs, and spam the same senseless replies over and over again.
It ain't just me either. Look @Tragnar and @Noaani . Obviously they have a larger tolerance margin than me, but their opinions have been misunderstood as well.
Open your eyes kid. Maybe the world isn't as you see it. I'm a damn rude piece of shit to people that refuse to even listen to others' opinions, especially on a subjective topic. And I don't hide it. I want to make friends, but I'm not afraid to make enemies either. I'm a PvPer after all.
Misunderstanding?
@Mojottv
Nope. You just misunderstand everything. Sorry, that's how it is. Plain and simple. I don't have the time to explain it to you in detail, but I'll give you a brief rundown. You clearly misunderstood my statements about griefing. @Tyrantor misunderstood my statements regarding PvE Difficulty solutions. He kept pushing the false narrative that I wanted instanced PvE content. @Bricktop refuses to even read anything properly, just like you, and @Tyrantor.
@Bricktop, @Tyrantor also misunderstood the opinions and replies of @Noaani and @Tragnar . So it wasn't just me either. But yes, I'm the most vocal one so you'll only remember my retorts.
@Mojottv
The only possible way you see repeating contradictions in our posts is that you have made labels for every point we make being either - 1-agree 2-disagree
and thus you see contradictions, because you don't care about the points we make. You only care if every point we make agrees with your opinion or not
― Plato
The AI can be designed to suit their needs just fine in an open world context. The instance only suits their needs for safety from PvP. I think you at a minimum conceded on the possibility that if 80% of the boss fights don't get interrupted by pvp that's probably OK. The other two have not even went that far, they need 100% guarantee no one attacks them during this scenario.
Once a bunch of NPC instances start to take over the game, for loot, gear, gold what ever is that it will ruin the design of an open world. Sure they can run there and back, but it's more likely they would get summoned there, then they just have to make a 1 way trip full speed on their mount in a raid party back to a city to bank their loot. You understand how much of a reduced risk this becomes from an open world pvp risk concept? If you remove the threat of PvP, for what by the way just to appease people? So they can't get killed druing a raid? How pathetic is this thinking? You're with a group of +/- 40 hard core PvE fanatics and you're just going to get rolled over every time you goto a dungeon or fight a tough NPC? lol
Anyway I'll digress here the game design from what I can tell is mostly about figuring it out for yourself - If you watched the PAX video Steven was a part of with the other developers, I think it was the Pantheon guy who said it best, something to the affect of WoW putting players in a padded box so they couldn't be hurt, where games like most of the developers on that channel were building games that made the players figure out how to protect themselves. If you or these other guys can't figure out how to kill the raid bosses within the game then maybe you're not part of the "single digit" qualifiers Steven was talking about. You do understand if the content goes into an instance it exponentially makes killing the content inside of that much easier for everyone, if the intent is single digits, the instance may change that to 30% of the server, maybe 50%. edit: just to add that the AI could be designed to fight identically inside and outside of the instance under this scenario.
You're all so caught up in this concept of "The dungeon is mine, the boss mob is ours we claim it because we got here". The reality is with limited fast travel in the game and for the most part the game is going to be localized so if you're at some dungeon near your main city (or where ever) it's unlikely that some random 40+ pvp group is going to be seeking you out and if you're already deep in the dungeon it's even less likely they'll fight they're way to the epic NPC before you clear it. It's much more likely that who ever you see in/at the dungeon when your group gets there is going to be it. If your guild is allied with most of the guilds in that area, less likely you'll have to even concern yourself with PVP but hey what do I know... as it's been said I fail to understand anything and just repeat myself...
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I'm assuming sarcasm, but just in case, I'll address this.
A carebear would farm in safe zones on their home continent, not on Auroria, as I clearly said was the case.
Also, a carebear wouldn't put the effort in to go pirate - a state that sees you as an enemy and target to literally everyone else on the server, for no material gain.
Having a large amount of land in Auroria and being a pirate meant that anyone looking for PvP would know where to find me, if they dared. Very, very few people bothered me though, as it generally isn't smart to attack a player that has the balls to be a pirate and farm static land in an open PvP area that also requires the use of a vehicle.
Honestly though, the highlight of my time in Archeage was doing MM as the only pirate on the server, and getting second place.
Literally every activity a game developer offers up players should be rewarded commensurate to the total time put in.
I would be interested to see how long content would last if Intrepid put the kind of content they themselves have talked about (multi-phase content hat is difficult enough that only single digit percentage of the population will be able to kill it) in the open.
I am not talking about how long it would be until it is killed - I am talking about how long it will be until it is essentially removed and replaced with a similar looking encounter.
If I were watching a top end raid being fought, I would be able to wipe the raid with a single ability. Top end encounters require split second timing for some abilities, and the raid will wipe if mis-timed (if they don't, they are not top end encounters).
All I need to do is wait until the mob is at 5% - when the raid has invested 20 minutes or more on this one attempt (again, top end raid) - and then CC a specific, key character. This won't leave the raid in a dire situation that they may be able to pull back from, it absolutely will wipe the raid every single time.
If this kind of thing doesn't wipe the raid, then the encounters are not top end - top end raids don't leave room for this kind of thing.
Now, you may suggest that the guild use a PvP screen to protect them, but then you are taking on a 40 player encounter with 120 players (yes, it would take 80 players to successfully screen this type of content - there will be many guilds wanting a piece, and a single player getting through will end the attempt). Even if a guild were to do this, they are now taking on content designed for 40 people in mind - and with a reward level designed for 40 players - with 120 players.
This is a worse situation than simply putting the encounter in an instance.
Put the instances at the end of a dungeon.
PvP players are already likely to attempt to control dungeons, and if they are successful that would mean they are also controlling instances.
Also, there should be an assumption that there are no mounts in dungeons - even open dungeons. Even if there is though, it isn't that hard to CC players on mounts.
Even if a guild did do this though, that is three encounters a week. That isn't going to be all they kill - they will likely want to take on the bosses (large and small) that should be in the dungeon that the instances are at the end of. On the other hand, if that was all that guild was killing that week - all I can say is "leave the poor guild alone, they are suffering enough", as they are clearly still a shit guild - however, they are a shit guild of subscription payers, customers for crafters and PvP targets, and so having content that keeps them in game is good for those other groups of people.
Finally, your argument here is more of one against the family summons than it is against a small amount of instanced content, and that is a stance I agree with.
No, they are there to attempt to head off people that want to nit-pick a detail that was omitted for the sake of berevety - which is something you do often.
A post of less than a few hundred words contains no real opinion in it, a post of over 600 words is an attempt to stop people from arguing the wrong point.
These wall of text psychos use big words that sound smart (in theory) and literally have zero sense of joy or humor.
I don't think joy or humor is or should be a big factor in online discussions at all.
There is other outlets for that.
These wall of text psychos sometimes pretend to not be wall of text psychos and simp for each other.
I don't think you understand the point of discussion.
Anyone coming to a gaming forum in search of "joy" should probably find some more effective source of joy in their life.
That seems like a pretty unfair judgment, why shouldn't he come to the forum for a game he likes or has interest in for some joy? I'm fairly certain ive even heard Steven say he "Enjoys" reading the forums. Should he not get joy from it either?
Anyway since it appears you've purposely avoided some parts of my wall of text above i'll just repeat the most pertinent information for you here.
If you can not beat the bosses in an open world setting then you're not part of the single digit % of players that can do it. If you need a guild protection or not, if your guilds not big enough make an alliance. If you still fail then I guess it's not meant to be welcome to the 90+% of players sorry but that's the end of it.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
However, complaining that posts or threads do not have any enjoyment factor to reading them when those posts and threads are an actual discussion rather than some obtuse notion that someone spouted without thinking is just odd. You don't come to a serious discussion looking for your daily quote of joy.
If it is possible for the bosses to be killed in an open environment, then the bosses are not top end content.
If the only way for the game to survive is for players to band together in to mass alliances as you are suggesting, the game won't last.
There needs to be room for guilds that just want to do their own thing. They don't need to own the castles, they don't need to lead the sieges, they don't even need to kill the world bosses. All they need to do is enjoy their time in the game, be customers for crafters and content for PvP'ers.
I mean, you want PvP content, right?
I would expect this kind of "toxic" behaviour is the everyday standard. You see there are already assaults in this kind of topic. Maybe its better to clear the thing in this topic sooner then later.
For me, its ok if you say "this and that wont happen", so i can move on or hang on. But just sitting there watching them fighting over given informations arent that proud.
Hopefully we will get some more details in the near future!
I am glad for your long post, it showed me what you have problem with - and I actually share that problem. I do not want instances to be free resources for the playerbase. If an instance would to exist then only for the safety from griefing and not actual guild to guild competition
Also I would be ok if the ratio for top end content would have less than 20% of player related wipes that were not part of the original 40 man raid team. Problem with that is what kind of system you want to implement to keep that from being almost 100% with the few windows being only during the lowest offtime like night
― Plato
Here you go this is it. You will have the choice to join the guilds that can compete for the world bosses or not. They do not need to be instanced. The developers can design the boss npcs around no interference just like they would if it was inside of an instance, if the interference happens then it does and no more boss raid.
I'll agree that it might be the reality for the guild that wants to just do their own thing may have to focus their energy around off peak hours, but see this is the choice they make, that becomes their "player freedom" within the game. No one is forcing them to be allied with the entire server to do this. However if that doesn't work for them then maybe they'll need to do something other than wish the zone was instanced to solve the problem for not being social or trying to work with other people on the server to accomplish their goals.
The instances make the game cater to a minority and let me explain this, I'm not saying there are more PvP players than PVE what I'm saying is that an instance takes the the freedom of choice away from everyone else on the server that may want to interfere. So you have a group of 40 players dictating to the rest of the server (1-9960 players) that their choice no longer matters because you found an instance and the rest of the server can't touch you.
It's true there will be guilds who focus on PvP in and around dungeons on a daily basis that will be their freedom of choice, maybe you work a deal out with them, maybe you don't. This is the beauty of open world. It's going to require the players to decide the outcome of events not the developers. Instances take away this dynamic. So while loot is a concern I'm more concerned with the lack of meaningful interactions it would remove from the game the more instances that are placed in the game world, especially on meaningful content outside of storyline, small group questing.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Encounters that are in the open world, but that are not able to be interferred with are actually my single favorate type of content in any game I have ever played. While I do also enjoy PvP enabled open world encounters, ones like this are - to me - significantly more interesting.
There are two issues with them still though.
The first is that it doesn't mean guilds will know they have content. These types of encounters spawn once a week or so per server. Again, this is great as a content type itself, but it doesn't solve the issue of giving guilds content.
The second issue is that of call lists. The last game I had with this type of content required players in guilds attempting it to make an effort to be online when the encounter spawns - regardless of what time of day that was. If the encounter spawned at 3am on a tuesday, expect a phone call. Indeed, and 30 minutes or so later (assuming success), you come back out to a known location, with additional material that can be looted in PvP. It isn't reducing the options - the options are still to attack the raid or not attack the raid. All it is doing is providing windows for when that attack can take place.
This isn't reducing the options of those other 9960 players, it is simply telling them that the option to attack this specific raid will have to wait a little, but at that point will have greater potential rewards.
Again, from that perspective of those 9960 players in a PvP setting, this is consistent with the design of the game. Spend a little more time, get potentially better rewards.
As an argument, this is like saying the game shouldn't have siege windows - it reduces the options for when players can attack nodes.
Placing windows on when players can make a specific choice is not removing options of freedom - especially not if the potential rewards for those choices alters between the various windows available.
As a final thought to this last point - remember that there are still always going to be open world encounters. The guilds want to run instanced content will likely want to take on any bosses that are up in the dungeon leading to the instance - loot from the instances I am suggesting alone would take a guild well over a year togear up on. This means that even people that are *only* willing to attack a raid while it is engaged in a top end PvE encounter will still be able to do so.
So, I really don't see any fewer options for players. You can attacl a guild while it is not in PvE, you can attack a guild while it is in PvP. You can attack a guild while the members are zoning out of the instance (always a weak point). You can attack the guild before they run the instance. You can attack the raid after they run the instance.
To me, that actually seems like more options...
I'm all about taking the training wheels and breaks off the bike when it comes to MMO game play so any restrictions put in place by the development team to make things "fair" will lean more your direction than mine 100% on all levels PvE, PvP, loot drop, item drop etc.
Anyway good chat.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
To me, that is all a few instances in Ashes would do. It isn't guaranteeing that a guild will get the kill, and getting the kill won't guarantee that a guild will keep the rewards. That is about as no training wheels and brakes as a game needs to be - anything more than that is purposefully placing a barrier in front of that no brakes bike.
Indeed it is.
That doesn't mean it is ok for people to just leave logs over the track though, or for the path to take you over a cliff.
To take the already exhausted analogy here even further, a good mountain bike park will always offer varying levels of challenge with their tracks, and will also offer various tracks that provide that challenge in different ways - even if the park in question is only targeting experienced mountain bikers
That being said having chaos stand in your path and learning how to manage it with appropriate tools to do so is a fundamental learning process and makes for some of the most excellent gameplay in any video game regardless of genre.
The important part is that the game is designed in a way to allow the player to overcome the challenges. If the game's brutal that's good it will require teamwork and communication. If the games too brutal then that would be bad because no matter how you work together it feels like it's not working.
Keep in mind since the beginning of this thread I've advocated good PVE, I just want there to also be the option to have PVP. Now in terms of efficiency we don't know what will happen because the alpha hasn't even launched yet.
I don't play WoW vanilla because I've already played WoW vanilla. I'm not one of those guys who's like old vanilla was the best. I honestly think Wrath of the Lich King was the best overall expansion in WoW's history. But but as someone who was there when Black Rock Depths was new I understood two things. One, it was a PVP hotspot outside of the instance gate where people fought. Two, BRD was a complex dungeon with multiple bosses and they were all tough for their time, so having a competing group delve the same dungeon at the same time, actually sounds kind of exciting.
I'm going to get a bit theory crafty here but from what I've seen of the dungeon design it looks like there's going to be complex labyritine dungeons designed for eight-man groups but with the potential to have a 40-man boss just kind of hanging out in certain spots. So sure you can be hostile flagged and fight other guys or whatever but at the end of the day maybe it'll be more efficient to just, you know chill and be like hey let's work together on this thing.
There may also be rooms where it's like well no I want a recipe from this drop this is my farming spot GTFO. This is all great and it's a good thing. At least in theory.
Aguing semantics to death is just arguing semantics to death. We're not going to know until they put the damn thing out there in the open for us to play.
The thing is, what I am suggesting isn't going to stop people from needing to do that. 3 instanced encounters is not enough in itself for a guild to survive on (literally - if that is all a guild is attempting, the guild will fall apart).
All this is doing is giving players one small corner of content that is theirs, that they know they can at least attempt, that once they have figured out (and assuming they can survive PvP), gives them a means by which to gear up a small amount - all so that they can then take on the open world content that the game will still be based on. I can literally only speak to raid content in WoW (unless you consider the first two levels as content worth speaking on). I agree with this point though.
It was the only time I actually enjoyed an encounter in WoW. It is better than a lot of content in other games, but not as good as the best content in other games, imo.
It is entierly possible that people will work together on encounters like this, but the most likely thing (assuming these raid encounters drop top end loot) is that top end guilds will work out the spawn timer and window, and will be ready and waiting for them to spawn.
Rather than these encounters being a case of groups in the dungeon working together, it is more likely to be top end guilds clearing out single groups leading up to the known encounter spawn.
That said, this kind of content is great - this is what Ashes is built around. This is not a point I am disputing - I am actually looking forward to this content a lot. I am simply saying that the best thing for the game as I see it - assuming the best thing for the game is to retain as large and as varied a player base as possible - is for there to also be a few instanced encounters.
How much of this do you need really? /w the addition of combat trackers where is the risk? Should the reward be absent too?
The way I see the situation with the combat tracker you plan on running, is that you know about as much as the designer does, if not more if your intending to be reporting bugs in the program, right.?.
Not everyone who wants to become a Navy SEAL becomes a Navy SEAL.
/End thread.