Macros in Ashes?

I haven't played to many mmorpgs, mostly ESO and WoW. But when it comes to world of warcraft, one can write some pretty interesting macros to help and assist you with your rotation and other things.

Examples:
Targeting macros, spell sequence, change/cancel form or stance, potion/food buff into a spell, modifier to add multiple spells to the same button, and much more.

I'm just wondering what other people think about macros and how other games have implemented it compared to WoW, and if it should be a thing in Ashes.

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Comments

akabear

Even the most simple macro can be used for ways that give an unfair advantage.
Like a marco to spam heal pots. Click once to get constant heal until click again to stop to provide more time focus on pvp and a higher chance of survival. Hmm

Songcaller

In BDO you could achieve a permanent pot for both health and mana, link it with a Fairy and the Fairy will auto use the permanent pots every 2s (At rank 5). It enabled classes to be un-killable in some situations. Macros weren't even required, just bad game design.

Heruwolf

akabear wrote: »

Even the most simple macro can be used for ways that give an unfair advantage.
Like a marco to spam heal pots. Click once to get constant heal until click again to stop to provide more time focus on pvp and a higher chance of survival. Hmm

If any game has no CD on a healing pot it's a broken game anyways. Person with the most resources wins at that points, unless your game design is designed around one-shotting players, which is also bad game design. Realistically, there will likely be a CD on the healing pots and therefore nulls your macro completely.

akabear

I have in past had macro`s setup to spam heal pots with delay to account for cool down. Worked a treat, but not exactly fair.

Songcaller

Thankfully, in The Duelist Code most Duels I undertake partake in within other MMOs, health and mana pots are banned lol.

rikardp98

Warth wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

PollexTroy wrote: »

Its just the sad truth of it. MMO mouse and keyboard will provide macros for combat. Any competitive advantage will be used and abused. You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you don't use a macro mouse and or keyboard in PVP/PVE combat.

Yeah that's true, just as keybinds is a

Warth wrote: »

PollexTroy wrote: »

Its just the sad truth of it. MMO mouse and keyboard will provide macros for combat. Any competitive advantage will be used and abused. You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you don't use a macro mouse and or keyboard in PVP/PVE combat.

There has been a very long history of MMOs, where the Mouse/Keyboard macros were flagged by the MMO's anti cheating system and led to bans, which sparked the usual "i got banned for no reason" hate threads in the forums).

It comes down to one simple thing, If the macro offer functionalities, that go against the terms of service, you may get banned, whether it's utilizing Keyboard/Mouse software, a 3rd party program or a bug in the game internal system (assuming of course, that their anti-cheating systems work properly).

Unless Intrepid installs a rootkit, they wouldn't be able to differentiate between inputs through third party software and inputs through keyboard/mouses anyway.

How about special made keyboards like the razer taurus, or a mouse with side buttons? Should these also be against tos? And if so, what kind of keyboard and mouse should be allowed?

I personally don't think ashes will be a game where one need combat macros, I just feel like macro is very useful outside of combat when it comes to changing gear with /equip commands, saving curtain texts like "Enchanter LFW...." (I know there will be shops but advertisement is always good). If IP implement a in-game macro system they will have full control over the macros and can easily identify macro from their own system.

Macros =/= hardwarer with additional buttons.

Hardware is never straight out banned. Utilizing it in a way that goes against TOS on the other hand usually is.

I do agree, that pure chat macros should be allowed, but if that interferes with their automatic detection system, then i'm all for not allowing it

I was just thinking that maybe a in-game system will not interfere, but since I'm just a player and have no experience with that sort of stuff I don't know.

Yes of course, if the macro system will interfere with their anti cheat system or bot detection, then by all means do not allow macro.

rikardp98

akabear wrote: »

I have in past had macro`s setup to spam heal pots with delay to account for cool down. Worked a treat, but not exactly fair.

If you can have a delay in you macro then I do not consider it a simple macro, and it's more like a script.

akabear

rikardp98 wrote: »

akabear wrote: »

I have in past had macro`s setup to spam heal pots with delay to account for cool down. Worked a treat, but not exactly fair.

If you can have a delay in you macro then I do not consider it a simple macro, and it's more like a script.

Using a Nostromo inbuilt key bindings and macro, many functions were able to be achieved. Nostromo defined them as macros, but they are more akin to a script. micro second delay, hit again!

Splitting hairs over if Script or Macro, if able to do something in game the same way that provides an unfair advantage to achieve what the game does not setout to allow, then prefer to see neither being permissible.

I

Chunka

As long as 1 button press = 1 action i'm fine with it

consultant

Think a limited macro systiem for targeting would be pretty cool. Like for healers target tank, use said ability, target last target. The in game macros in WoW can be used to partially automate game play. (sequence macros.

Think macros like page up page down and so on plus we are going to have Icons plus if we have world marker be cool if we could macro them. Just makes thing less clunky.

But Ashes of Creation could just go with a very very very very long key binding list basically listing every command in the game with a lot of pages like at least ten.

McMackMuck

I don't want macros or scripting in the game for any reason EXCEPT making the game more inclusive for those with a disability.
If someone with a genuine disability contacts Intrepid, explains their difficulties and then Intrepid is prepared to
1) code some assisting macros and
2) monitor that player to ensure that no unfair advantage is given,
then I would be completely cool with that and I would never need to know about it. I would be happy to leave it with Steven and his conscience.

halbarz

I saw a similar discussion on the boards of some other upcoming MMO's in the last few months. I personally believe Macro's like in World of Warcraft is just bad, it would ruin Ashes of Creation. Also the moment you allow them and it gets out of control it is very difficult to pull the plug on them without damaging your community, player base, etc. People very easily accustomed to something.

I hope we have zero macros in this game, except for your /sit or /dance.

rikardp98

@McMackMuck @halbarz what is your previous experience with macros in games?

For me it's mostly wow classic where macros is mostly (to me, and how I have seen them used) off-gcd ability into one GCD ability, out of combat macros like gear changing macro, and targeting macros (where the "focus" commands is questionable).
No delays or wait commands to cast multiple spells, and from my experience no huge game changing commands.

I don't like the argument "I don't want them", please give me some examples (non-scribt like macro, no wait or delays).

Songcaller

Macros in WoW are also used to run long scripts. The scripts I've seen change the lighting effects, shadow effects, toner effects, graphics effects etc...I know its not relate to gameplay but the point was related to the use of scripts through in-game WoW macros.

rikardp98

Neurath wrote: »

Macros in WoW are also used to run long scripts. The scripts I've seen change the lighting effects, shadow effects, toner effects, graphics effects etc...I know its not relate to gameplay but the point was related to the use of scripts through in-game WoW macros.

I have never heard of this? Sounds weird, can you link it give an example.

And if it's real, then it should not be a thing xD

Songcaller

Console Commands (Each Section is its own Macro):

/console violencelevel5

/console overridefarclip 1
/console horizonfarclip 6226
/console groundeffectdensity 256
/console smallcull 0
/console skycloudlod 3
/console characterAmbient 1.0
/console extshadowquality 4
/console environmentDetail 2
/console farclip 2500
/console groundEffectDist 2500
/console groundEffectFade 2500

/console overridefarclip 1
/console horizonfarclip 6226
/console horizonStart 24000
/console farclip 24000
/console terrainLodDist 1500 /console wmoLodDist 1500
/console entityLodDist 100
/console groundeffectdensity 256
/console groundEffectDist 500
/console groundEffectFade 600

/console doodadLodDist 2000
/console shadowMode 3
/console shadowTextureSize 2048
/console smallcull 0
/console skycloudlod 3
/console extshadowquality 5
/console particleDensity 100
/console particleMTDensity 100
/console showfootprints 1

/console showfootprintparticles 1
/console environmentDetail 150
/console terrainMipLevel 0
/console worldBaseMip 0
/console WeatherDensity 3
/console detailDoodadAlpha 100
/console characterAmbient 1

/console ffxGlow 1
/console ffxDeath 1
/console reflectionMode 3
/console rippleDetail 3
/console sunshafts 2
/console spellEffectLevel 35

/console componentTextureLevel 0
/console componentSpecular 1
/console compenentEmissive 1
/console lodObjectMinSize 1000
/console lodObjectCullSize 100
/console lodObjectCullDist 200
/console lodObjectFadeScale 300
/console SSAODistance 750

To be blunt, these are from WoW Classic, I do not know much about WoW Retail though.

rikardp98

To me this sound reasonable for a macro.

"Macros cannot make smart decisions for you. They can’t cast spells based on cooldown, or check if a buff is active, or magically fit all your abilities onto one button.

Macros cannot be any longer than 255 characters, unless you use an addon to circumvent this limit.
Macros cannot circumvent the global cooldown to use more than one item or ability at a time. There are some exceptions, but this is the general rule.

Macros cannot simulate additional keypresses. One keypress = one action.

Macros cannot include a delay for most commands. Certain commands (e.g. chat) can be delayed with an addon."

And

"
REMOVED: Focus (UnitID)

In Classic, Focus (and related unitIDs, like focustarget) is not recognized as a valid target for spells.
This means that you will need to target the unit you want to cast at. You an use other unitIDs like targettarget, pettarget, or party1target, but this is less reliable as the intermediate unitID can swap to a different target.
Mouseover is generally a better option as it is 100% within your control, but it does take more coordination and mouse accuracy than Focus macros from BfA.
REMOVED: Reticle Targeting (Conditionals)

In Classic, reticle (ground targeted) spells require two keypresses to activate. The first press will bring up the targeting reticle, and the second press will cast the spell.
This is a change from BfA, where you can use [@cursor] to immediately drop the spell on your mouse, or [@player] to immediately drop the spell on yourself.
There is no effective workaround for this issue, though it may be helpful to bind these types of spells to additional mouse buttons (Mouse3 (wheel click), Mouse4 (forward), Mouse5 (back), or other buttons as available depending on your mouse), as that doesn’t require the use of both hands to cast a single spell.
"

from: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/macros-essential-information/21139

Merek

I understand why you'd want to optimize your skill usage like this, probably why I hate tab-target MMO's to begin with, but doesn't it kill your enjoyment? You turn learning to cast skills in succession into, "I googled the best macro, now I'm competitively viable.". How boring.

rikardp98

Neurath wrote: »

Console Commands (Each Section is its own Macro):

/console violencelevel5

/console overridefarclip 1
/console horizonfarclip 6226
/console groundeffectdensity 256
/console smallcull 0
/console skycloudlod 3
/console characterAmbient 1.0
/console extshadowquality 4
/console environmentDetail 2
/console farclip 2500
/console groundEffectDist 2500
/console groundEffectFade 2500

/console overridefarclip 1
/console horizonfarclip 6226
/console horizonStart 24000
/console farclip 24000
/console terrainLodDist 1500 /console wmoLodDist 1500
/console entityLodDist 100
/console groundeffectdensity 256
/console groundEffectDist 500
/console groundEffectFade 600

/console doodadLodDist 2000
/console shadowMode 3
/console shadowTextureSize 2048
/console smallcull 0
/console skycloudlod 3
/console extshadowquality 5
/console particleDensity 100
/console particleMTDensity 100
/console showfootprints 1

/console showfootprintparticles 1
/console environmentDetail 150
/console terrainMipLevel 0
/console worldBaseMip 0
/console WeatherDensity 3
/console detailDoodadAlpha 100
/console characterAmbient 1

/console ffxGlow 1
/console ffxDeath 1
/console reflectionMode 3
/console rippleDetail 3
/console sunshafts 2
/console spellEffectLevel 35

/console componentTextureLevel 0
/console componentSpecular 1
/console compenentEmissive 1
/console lodObjectMinSize 1000
/console lodObjectCullSize 100
/console lodObjectCullDist 200
/console lodObjectFadeScale 300
/console SSAODistance 750

To be blunt, these are from WoW Classic, I do not know much about WoW Retail though.

yeah I know about the ffxDeath 1 where it removes the death "glow" on your screen. This is something I don't really like since it changes the gamefiles directly. As you say, they are mostly "cosmetics" and don't effect people around you in any direct way. But it's a good point on scripts and I don't really likes this.

rikardp98

Merek wrote: »

I understand why you'd want to optimize your skill usage like this, probably why I hate tab-target MMO's to begin with, but doesn't it kill your enjoyment? You turn learning to cast skills in succession into, "I googled the best macro, now I'm competitively viable.". How boring.

actually I have not copied any macros from google, except for /cancleform in to /cast cat form.

The targeting macro was created by a guild mate and the non-gcd into gcd was made by me.

As you also said, this is mostly a tab-targeting thing and it may not be needed in the hybrid system that ashes will use.

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