So making a character specifically to focus on artisan skill and not level class as to deter other players from killing you due to increased corruption penalty more so than if you were a max class level character doing the same thing, i.e. increasing the risk for PKers as you say....you dont see that as an exploit nor as greater protection? Explain that logic.
It is neither an exploit nor greater protection.
I've explained that a couple of times already.
All you have said is that it increases risk for PKers, but you havent explained how that isnt an exploit or greater protection compared to being a max class level character doing the same thing.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
I can't think of any actual scenario where it will be an issue.
I can definitely think of scenarios. Just depends on if they actually become meta. There are a lot of levers the devs can manipulate to keep some of the more ridiculous scenarios from becoming realities.
You shouldn't defend this kind of thing thrust me there is no point its going to be used against casual players while doing nothing for you. Nothing everything should be defended like its perfectly fine, people are bringing it up for valid reasons.
Yes adventuring class isn't tied to gather but they are still designing the system and change is always possible if there is ways to exploit something. Just like nif you can make it so you can't pvp a certain low level.
I understand you want to protect the pver experience but that isn't to ga a pve experience to have low level in a high level zone. Though not tied there should be some kind of correlation between gathering and leveling. The same way you can't skin a mob if you can't kill it.
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
If some players want to use their playing time for different professions that should not be limited imo. Most likely most of the players focus to do some life skills but not using too much time for that. Additionally, some players will not do any professions and focus more on PvE/PvP encounters.
I would be more concerned that best refiners and crafters will be "guild alts" used especially by competitive guilds. Meaning that certain alts will be boosted with tons of resources and recipes. I am not sure if there is a mechanic which prevents this or should there be one. What you guys think?
People who rely on alts for Crafting typically do so because they have tons of time to Craft - time when other players are busy doing other stuff or don't have as much time to play.
Makes it easier for the hardcore time Crafters to help the casual time players acquire the items they want.
I don't what "sanctity" is supposed to be preserved since RPGs are intended to have stories based on the actions of the characters. And alts are just multiple characters per player.
To help the casuals? They are murdering them via enconomy, a competitive mmo with difficult resources and quantities required isn't as pretty as how you dressed that!
I'm not stopping the bored crowd (I'd like to say much more but cba!) from playing multiple characters but content is preserved if there is challenge and commitment on multiple angles.
"RPG intention" is ridiculous, ofc words and actions can have some form of influence on people, not much at all in any serious discussion when good conquest or glory is on the line but "a story", you playing multiple avatars and flavouring a personality isn't a story to anyone but yourself! People come in mmo's, put their imaginary VR headsets on and get absorbed into the world and do whatever they want doing, most come to boogy and get shit done, in a pleasant or not so pleasant manner.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.
I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
To help the casuals? They are murdering them via enconomy, a competitive mmo with difficult resources and quantities required isn't as pretty as how you dressed that!
To help the causal time players acquire gear.
How is helping casual time players acquire gear "murdering them via economy"?
Who said that Ashes is a "competitive MMO"?
I'm not stopping the bored crowd (I'd like to say much more but cba!) from playing multiple characters but content is preserved if there is challenge and commitment on multiple angles.
You aren't stopping anything. But, I dunno why you bring up "the bored crowd" - has nothing to do with this topic, as far as I know.
"RPG intention" is ridiculous, ofc words and actions can have some form of influence on people, not much at all in any serious discussion when good conquest or glory is on the line but "a story", you playing multiple avatars and flavouring a personality isn't a story to anyone but yourself!
You may be focused on good conquest and glory. That doesn't mean that most Ashes players will be focused on that. Especially doesn't mean that most Crafters will be focused on "conquest and glory".
People come in mmo's, put their imaginary VR headsets on and get absorbed into the world and do whatever they want doing, most come to boogy and get shit done, in a pleasant or not so pleasant manner.
People play MMORPGs for a variety of reasons. Yes.
By get shit done, you must mean use alts so they can easily craft a ton of shit. Yes.
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.
I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.
You don't understand the mind set of a pvp player.....Simply trying to defend everything because you think it affects PvE is not good. That is why you need to step away from PvE bias, pve bias in a PvX game does not work in understanding design exploits.
Im saying its 90% for pvpers to exploit for their own benefit with bringing a low level to use for themselves with their group.....
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
The mindset of a PvP player is irrelevant.
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
The mindset of a PvP player is irrelevant.
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
No actually i have a better understanding of things from Both PvP and Pve compared to you. And i can take certain issues and look at them and you honestly are not making sense.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
You continue to say nonsene that has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make thinking as a PvE player and not the actual issue I'm trying to raise.
STOP thinking its you as a friendly PvE player, that is not what anything my point has to do with. I'm talking about PvP players exploiting / using their low level characters to get around system or use systems against other players holy hell.
You think my mindset is bias towards PvP when that is not the case, you are so bias you just refuse to listen what people says when you think it relates to pvp affecting you and get overly defenseless. This last part has nothing to do with the current discussion but honestly if you think the onyl issues in a MMORPG that is PvX only relates to PvE issues you are very, very wrong. If you prefer only PvE this game won't be for you. I can't even raise a god damn issue that relates to PvP without you being god damn worried. And yes issues that relate to PvP will effect PvE content, and vis versa and that is just how it is.
No actually i have a better understanding of things from Both PvP and Pve compared to you. And i can take certain issues and look at them and you honestly are not making sense.
Actually, no - you don't have a better understanding.
Especially since your views of the way the game should be don't match with Steven's views.
You continue to say nonsene that has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make thinking as a PvE player and not the actual issue I'm trying to raise.
You continue to be so ignorant and biased that you can't comprehend the pertinense of how what I said relates to your absurd point.
STOP thinking its you as a friendly PvE player, that is not what anything my point has to do with. I'm talking about PvP players exploiting / using their low level characters to get around system or use systems against other players holy hell.
I keep telling you it's not an exploit.
It's not getting around systems.
You can say the Earth is flat as many times as you like. Won't make it true.
You think my mindset is bias towards PvP when that is not the case, you are so bias you just refuse to listen what people says when you think it relates to pvp affecting you and get overly defenseless. This last part has nothing to do with the current discussion but honestly if you think the onyl issues in a MMORPG that is PvX only relates to PvE issues you are very, very wrong. If you prefer only PvE this game won't be for you. I can't even raise a god damn issue that relates to PvP without you being god damn worried. And yes issues that relate to PvP will effect PvE content, and vis versa and that is just how it is.
Overly defenseless? Are you so worked up you can't think straight? You mean overly defensive??
Just because you imgine an issue does not mean what you imagined is valid.
In this case it's not a valid issue.
That is true but I'll say right now that a game isn't fun enough if people naturally lean towards a mulitple character mindset, unless ofc it's branching into a competitive fighting game mindset, where playing different characters you attain more knowledge quicker.
You're only looking at this from the perspective you play and enjoy games, totally ignoring the way other people play and ignore games.
I've known many people over the years that only play MMO's for the crafting. They often get out and take part in other aspects of the game, but it is the crafting that they are in the game for. I have also seen people that only play MMO's for house decorating, among other things - the key takeaway here for you should be that the way you play an MMORPG is not the only way to play an MMORPG. Even if the game is set to be somewhat competitive, that does not dictate how everyone has to play the game.
Intrepid have already talked in the past about how being primarily a crafter is a valid way to play Ashes, where you pay others to be your muscle rather than fighting for yourself. This is absolutely the intent they have for the game.
Going back to the suggestion to tie crafting and combat profession - I wouldn't have got in to the discussion if it didn't go against what Intrepid have already said on the matter.
How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is?
Without that in place, it is viable for players to create a character that is a crafter and nothing else.
With it, the above it not viable.
That is a drastic change in the game - at least to some players that enjoy crafting.
It doesn't allow people to avoid PvP mechanics. If I am level 1 in my combat class, you can attack me as *probably* anything up to level 5 in your combat class without suffering anything other than normal corruption penalties.
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
You are missing my point.
I am not proposing anything. I am simply talking about what Intrepid have said the intent is.
A crafter can for example provide gear or consumables which are then sold for other players who uses them in PvE and PvP. Perhaps there is also activities that a crafter can do when his/her town is preparing for siege. Therefore, even this crafter will not participate on PvP action, he/she can indirectly accomplish PvX related tasks. I know this is not a huge PvX thing but at least we can say that this crafter participates to PvX activities somewhat.
No actually i have a better understanding of things from Both PvP and Pve compared to you. And i can take certain issues and look at them and you honestly are not making sense.
Actually, no - don't have a better understanding.
Especially since your views of the way the game should be don't match with Steven's views.
You continue to say nonsene that has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make thinking as a PvE player and not the actual issue I'm trying to raise.
You continue to be so ignorant and biased that you can't comprehend the pertinense of how what I said relates to your absurd point.
STOP thinking its you as a friendly PvE player, that is not what anything my point has to do with. I'm talking about PvP players exploiting / using their low level characters to get around system or use systems against other players holy hell.
I keep telling you it's not an exploit.
It's not getting around systems.
You can say the Earth is flat as many times as you like. Won't make it true.
You think my mindset is bias towards PvP when that is not the case, you are so bias you just refuse to listen what people says when you think it relates to pvp affecting you and get overly defenseless. This last part has nothing to do with the current discussion but honestly if you think the onyl issues in a MMORPG that is PvX only relates to PvE issues you are very, very wrong. If you prefer only PvE this game won't be for you. I can't even raise a god damn issue that relates to PvP without you being god damn worried. And yes issues that relate to PvP will effect PvE content, and vis versa and that is just how it is.
Overly defenseless? Are you so worked up you can't think straight? You mean overly defensive??
Just because you imgine an issue does not mean what you imagined is valid.
In this case it's not a valid issue.
Here we go again, i already called you out and you couldn't even answer about these views. Seriosuly stop trying to talk for him you aren't him, use exact quotes
Here we go again YES its a exploit, i seriously can't believe you don't understand...you don't play PvP in mmos seriously clearly. It honestly is so frustrating you keep talking about Steven like you know exactly what is going to happen, liek the game is fully done and the systems are all online in game and have been tested without any exploits happening in them. You don't understand a single thing when it comes to PvP and people exploiting is all I see from you.
As far as design i have a much better understanding then you, including the fact that things can change in games when they are tested and bringing up red flags is important so things can't be exploited.
How to exploit a lowbie for dummies
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
The first of these scenarios wouldn't be possible in a game with average or better PvE systems.
In most PvE games, a mobs aggro range is determined by the level of the player. If you bring a low level character in to a high level area, you would have every mob for miles attacking them. Since mobs have both ranged attacks and AoE's, there is no viable way a group of players that are the same level as the encounters would be able to keep that low level player alive for long.
The second one may indeed be possible, and is something I pointed out to Intrepid about 4 years ago. Their response was that they will see how it goes during testing.
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
The first of these scenarios wouldn't be possible in a game with average or better PvE systems.
In most PvE games, a mobs aggro range is determined by the level of the player. If you bring a low level character in to a high level area, you would have every mob for miles attacking them. Since mobs have both ranged attacks and AoE's, there is no viable way a group of players that are the same level as the encounters would be able to keep that low level player alive for long.
The second one may indeed be possible, and is something I pointed out to Intrepid about 4 years ago. Their response was that they will see how it goes during testing.
I mentioned that about the PvE systems in a previous post, but just because it can be prevented because of pve situations doesn't mean its not something that we shouldn't be aware of being a possibility, if the pve systems don't do that well enough.
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
The first of these scenarios wouldn't be possible in a game with average or better PvE systems.
In most PvE games, a mobs aggro range is determined by the level of the player. If you bring a low level character in to a high level area, you would have every mob for miles attacking them. Since mobs have both ranged attacks and AoE's, there is no viable way a group of players that are the same level as the encounters would be able to keep that low level player alive for long.
The second one may indeed be possible, and is something I pointed out to Intrepid about 4 years ago. Their response was that they will see how it goes during testing.
I mentioned that about the PvE systems in a previous post, but just because it can be prevented because of pve situations doesn't mean its not something that we shouldn't be aware of being a possibility, if the pve systems don't do that well enough.
Be aware of; yes.
Ask for changes to corruption to deal with; no.
Because corruption is it's own system with it's own purpose that is arguably one of the most important in the game, it should never be altered in any way to deal with anything other than the corruption system not working as intended.
Both of the scenarios above have far better ways to fix them (the first scenario - fix PvE, the second scenario - fix PvP flagging). As such, there is no reason at all to alter the corruption system.
I'm not saying what the exact solution should be just raising the point, because when I hear that isn't a exploit my mind is actually blown.
But they are not exploits.
Issues, perhaps - but not exploits.
They can't be exploits, as Intrepid are aware of them, and have been for years. If either of the two scenarios you talked about make it in to the game as being possible, it is by design.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Here we go again, i already called you out and you couldn't even answer about these views. Seriosuly stop trying to talk for him you aren't him, use exact quotes
Here we go again YES its a exploit, i seriously can't believe you don't understand...you don't play PvP in mmos seriously clearly. It honestly is so frustrating you keep talking about Steven like you know exactly what is going to happen, liek the game is fully done and the systems are all online in game and have been tested without any exploits happening in them. You don't understand a single thing when it comes to PvP and people exploiting is all I see from you.
As far as design i have a much better understanding then you, including the fact that things can change in games when they are tested and bringing up red flags is important so things can't be exploited.
How to exploit a lowbie for dummies
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
LMAO
You keep calling me out - with worthless, ignorant drek.
Um.
2: Even if you give your gear to the lowbie, you still have to work off your Corruption and other death penalties.
3: Dunno how you ensure that you are able to survive combat while you are naked.
4: Who says that you can protect that lowbie from all the mobs in that area?
Again you are just making crap up in your head. It's not going to be that easy in the actual game.
2: LMAO! Assuming you find a weak-minded person to take your bait.
3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? You can't accidentally attack and kill the lowbies.
I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
I disagree
If someone just wants to be a crafter but need a material that only a high level XYZ can farm they might hire a body guard to take them to an area to get enough stuff to go back and continue their crafter life... That 100% falls in line with quotes about potential game play routes for players to choose from.
Here we go again, i already called you out and you couldn't even answer about these views. Seriosuly stop trying to talk for him you aren't him, use exact quotes
Here we go again YES its a exploit, i seriously can't believe you don't understand...you don't play PvP in mmos seriously clearly. It honestly is so frustrating you keep talking about Steven like you know exactly what is going to happen, liek the game is fully done and the systems are all online in game and have been tested without any exploits happening in them. You don't understand a single thing when it comes to PvP and people exploiting is all I see from you.
As far as design i have a much better understanding then you, including the fact that things can change in games when they are tested and bringing up red flags is important so things can't be exploited.
How to exploit a lowbie for dummies
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
LMAO
You keep calling me out - with worthless, ignorant drek.
Um.
2: Even if you give your gear to the lowbie, you still have to work off your Corruption and other death penalties.
3: Dunno how you ensure that you are able to survive combat while you are naked.
4: Who says that you can protect that lowbie from all the mobs in that area?
Again you are just making crap up in your head. It's not going to be that easy in the actual game.
2: LMAO! Assuming you find a weak-minded person to take your bait.
3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? Y ou can't accidentally attacka and kill the lowbies.
I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.
Honestly if you don't understand pvp you really shouldn't just say random things. You are trying to point them like each is a point, no its step 1-4. Let me educate you again.
2 - Clearly you need to work off your corrupting its clear how the game works.
3 - Even if the lowbie can't make it back and they try on their own without someone to escort them back and kill the mobs. Not all of the items will be dropped on death and it can be picked up by another player. (Compared to a red player having *4 the penalties on death and most likely dropping most the material he just pked off someone.)
4.No crap is being made and we don't know how it will be in the game as the game isn't out yet stop assuming things. Again even if you die you won't lose everything. This isnt a random meta you do against strangers of course you pick your target well that will give you some big drops and kill a few people.
2. Why are you laughing...you don't understand pvp nor how creative people can be. You use a rogue class or one that can teleport (Yes we know they won't have full invis) You pick a good location so they aren't aware the lowbies run it. Eevn if this si 40% effective you can't mess around with equipped gear dropping.....
3. Please don't be like this please your your brain if you are going to talk crap. You understand the corruption please just think why you would bomb.
4. The point is for them to show up mid fight while people are flagged, of course they don't know, that is the whole point,..
I've played more mmorpgs then you i understand how things can work. With how things will work in game that we don't know so we can only raise flags to people can be aware of things that can happen and they can make sure the least amount of exploits are used.
Honestly I feel you aren't helping convos while your point right here is you thinking things can't happen and not understanding the true mind set of all elements people will use in PvP. Like im trying to figure out why you are arguing on this, you could be throwing solutions instead regardless if you believe it will happen or not.
3 - Even if the lowbie can't make it back and they try on their own without someone to escort them back and kill the mobs. Not all of the items will be dropped on death and it can be picked up by another player. (Compared to a red player having *4 the penalties on death and most likely dropping most the material he just pked off someone.)
4.No crap is being made and we don't know how it will be in the game as the game isn't out yet stop assuming things. Again even if you die you won't lose everything. This isnt a random meta you do against strangers of course you pick your target well that will give you some big drops and kill a few people.
3 - The lowbie will not be dropping gear in any case since they won't be Corrupted. I don't understand what point you are tryng to make here. It's completely moot and does not support your ludicrous concept.
4 - I'm not the one assuming things. I'm telling you what the game design is.
You have not supported your inane concept at all. You're not telling me "how PvP works", you're just demonstrating how your addled imagination works.
2. Why are you laughing...you don't understand pvp nor how creative people can be. You use a rogue class or one that can teleport (Yes we know they won't have full invis) You pick a good location so they aren't aware the lowbies run it. Eevn if this si 40% effective you can't mess around with equipped gear dropping.....
3. Please don't be like this please your your brain if you are going to talk crap. You understand the corruption please just think why you would bomb.
4. The point is for them to show up mid fight while people are flagged, of course they don't know, that is the whole point,..
2 - What??? There are lowbies at the location. Let's say they are "running it". Let's say they are Invisible, so rival players aren't aware of them.
3 - I don't understand the "Corruption Bomb". How does the "Corruption Bomb" work?
4 - The invisible lowbies show up mid fight and... do what? If they are invisble they cannot be attacked by the rival players. You have to willfully target individual players in order to flag against them for PvP. You cannot accidentally target a player and flag against them.
Once the lowbies reveal themselves, their levels and gear can be checked to see if they are worth the risk of attacking. But if the lowbies are not attacking, they can be ignored.
Again --- you don't understand the Ashes game design.
I've played more mmorpgs then you i understand how things can work. With how things will work in game that we don't know so we can only raise flags to people can be aware of things that can happen and they can make sure the least amount of exploits are used.
But, you don't understand the Ashes flagging system.
Honestly I feel you aren't helping convos while your point right here is you thinking things can't happen and not understanding the true mind set of all elements people will use in PvP. Like im trying to figure out why you are arguing on this, you could be throwing solutions instead regardless if you believe it will happen or not.
You cannot help conversations if you do not understand the Ashes game design.
Doesn't matter how many other MMORPGs you've played.
How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is?
Without that in place, it is viable for players to create a character that is a crafter and nothing else.
With it, the above it not viable.
That is a drastic change in the game - at least to some players that enjoy crafting.
It doesn't allow people to avoid PvP mechanics. If I am level 1 in my combat class, you can attack me as *probably* anything up to level 5 in your combat class without suffering anything other than normal corruption penalties.
Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
You are missing my point.
I am not proposing anything. I am simply talking about what Intrepid have said the intent is.
I guess I am missing your point. What are you saying is the intent of ashes in regards to this conversation? Because my last post was arguing that the mechanic being discussed goes against the idea of a PvX genre by allowing a player to avoid the PVP content
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I see that the discussion was mostly about ALTS and if somebody can have a crafting ALT.
Maybe it can have but to be a very proficient at crafting, it should be citizen of a Scientific node, which give benefits to artisans https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Scientific_nodes
This is not really accurate. What you mean is that Scientific Nodes are the best locations to be a top tier Master Crafter - especially with regard to Scientific recipes.
The majority of Crafters will not be striving to be the top tier, best of all the best, Crafter.
Getting Master Crafter will be good enough for the vast majority of players. And you don't have to belong to a Scientific Node to become a Master Crafter. You can be a very proficient Crafter without belonging to a Scientific Node.
Those who are good crafters will not get the benefits for being good at selling those goods, which require to be citizen on an Economic Node.
But owning multiple accounts is allowed.
Sure. Some people may be focused on being great Crafters. Some people may be focused on being great Tradesmen.
The players who are obsessed with having a character who is the best of the best Crafter and having another character who is the best of the best Tradesmen on the same server will probably multibox, but... that will be exceedingly rare.
Most people will settle with being great at one and pretty good at the other(s).
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the context of this topic, though.
3 - Even if the lowbie can't make it back and they try on their own without someone to escort them back and kill the mobs. Not all of the items will be dropped on death and it can be picked up by another player. (Compared to a red player having *4 the penalties on death and most likely dropping most the material he just pked off someone.)
4.No crap is being made and we don't know how it will be in the game as the game isn't out yet stop assuming things. Again even if you die you won't lose everything. This isnt a random meta you do against strangers of course you pick your target well that will give you some big drops and kill a few people.
3 - The lowbie will not be dropping gear in any case since they won't be Corrupted. I don't understand what point you are tryng to make here. It's completely moot and does not support your ludicrous concept.
4 - I'm not the one assuming things. I'm telling you what the game design is.
You have not supported your inane concept at all. Your not telling me "how PvP works", your just demonstrating how your addled imagination works.
2. Why are you laughing...you don't understand pvp nor how creative people can be. You use a rogue class or one that can teleport (Yes we know they won't have full invis) You pick a good location so they aren't aware the lowbies run it. Eevn if this si 40% effective you can't mess around with equipped gear dropping.....
3. Please don't be like this please your your brain if you are going to talk crap. You understand the corruption please just think why you would bomb.
4. The point is for them to show up mid fight while people are flagged, of course they don't know, that is the whole point,..
2 - What??? There are lowbies at the location. Let's say they are "running it". Let's say they are Invisible, so rival players aren't aware of them.
3 - I don't understand the "Corruption Bomb". How does the "Corruption Bomb" work?
4 - The invisible lowbies show up mid fight and... do what? If they are invisble they cannot be attacked by the rival players. You have to willfully target individual players in order to flag against them for PvP. You cannot accidentally target a player and flag against them.
Once the lowbies reveal themselves, their levels and gear can be checked to see if they are worth the risk of attacking. But if the lowbies are not attacking, they can be ignored.
Again --- you don't understand the Ashes game design.
I've played more mmorpgs then you i understand how things can work. With how things will work in game that we don't know so we can only raise flags to people can be aware of things that can happen and they can make sure the least amount of exploits are used.
But, you don't understand the Ashes flagging system.
Honestly I feel you aren't helping convos while your point right here is you thinking things can't happen and not understanding the true mind set of all elements people will use in PvP. Like im trying to figure out why you are arguing on this, you could be throwing solutions instead regardless if you believe it will happen or not.
You cannot help conversations if you do not understand the Ashes game design.
Doesn't matter how many other MMORPGs you've played.
Back to this again
2. If players do not drop anything on death from mob kills, then it only makes this exploit even more effective giving gear to the low level player / non corrupted player, so you don't lose any mats upon death and can safely go back to town if you were to be killed by a mob. (only thing that is moot is your foresight)
3. You literarily don't know what the game design it, it is being discussed and created. There is a vision is mine that they are working to of course.
Honestly you wouldn't know game design if it slapped you in the face. Again you can't even understand exploits....
Honestly reading the other part you don't understand corrupting bombing I feel i can't actually have a discussion with you. Please go understand the systems in the game and basic pvp flagging. The fact you don't understand people can jump in mid fight while someone is flagged is insane.
Stop saying I don't understand the design when you don't understand game development, design, troubleshooting, etc. clearly I have a much better grasp then you and that is why I feel like I'm talking to a god damn wall. Even if I explain every detail you most likely still won't understand you don't do serious pvp just chalk it up to that with your inexperience of missing how those system can be taken advantage of when as you are given examples.
Comments
All you have said is that it increases risk for PKers, but you havent explained how that isnt an exploit or greater protection compared to being a max class level character doing the same thing.
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
I can definitely think of scenarios. Just depends on if they actually become meta. There are a lot of levers the devs can manipulate to keep some of the more ridiculous scenarios from becoming realities.
Yes adventuring class isn't tied to gather but they are still designing the system and change is always possible if there is ways to exploit something. Just like nif you can make it so you can't pvp a certain low level.
I understand you want to protect the pver experience but that isn't to ga a pve experience to have low level in a high level zone. Though not tied there should be some kind of correlation between gathering and leveling. The same way you can't skin a mob if you can't kill it.
got to it before I could, thank you
I would be more concerned that best refiners and crafters will be "guild alts" used especially by competitive guilds. Meaning that certain alts will be boosted with tons of resources and recipes. I am not sure if there is a mechanic which prevents this or should there be one. What you guys think?
To help the casuals? They are murdering them via enconomy, a competitive mmo with difficult resources and quantities required isn't as pretty as how you dressed that!
I'm not stopping the bored crowd (I'd like to say much more but cba!) from playing multiple characters but content is preserved if there is challenge and commitment on multiple angles.
"RPG intention" is ridiculous, ofc words and actions can have some form of influence on people, not much at all in any serious discussion when good conquest or glory is on the line but "a story", you playing multiple avatars and flavouring a personality isn't a story to anyone but yourself! People come in mmo's, put their imaginary VR headsets on and get absorbed into the world and do whatever they want doing, most come to boogy and get shit done, in a pleasant or not so pleasant manner.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.
I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.
How is helping casual time players acquire gear "murdering them via economy"?
Who said that Ashes is a "competitive MMO"?
You aren't stopping anything. But, I dunno why you bring up "the bored crowd" - has nothing to do with this topic, as far as I know.
You may be focused on good conquest and glory. That doesn't mean that most Ashes players will be focused on that. Especially doesn't mean that most Crafters will be focused on "conquest and glory".
People play MMORPGs for a variety of reasons. Yes.
By get shit done, you must mean use alts so they can easily craft a ton of shit. Yes.
You don't understand the mind set of a pvp player.....Simply trying to defend everything because you think it affects PvE is not good. That is why you need to step away from PvE bias, pve bias in a PvX game does not work in understanding design exploits.
Im saying its 90% for pvpers to exploit for their own benefit with bringing a low level to use for themselves with their group.....
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
No actually i have a better understanding of things from Both PvP and Pve compared to you. And i can take certain issues and look at them and you honestly are not making sense.
You continue to say nonsene that has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make thinking as a PvE player and not the actual issue I'm trying to raise.
STOP thinking its you as a friendly PvE player, that is not what anything my point has to do with. I'm talking about PvP players exploiting / using their low level characters to get around system or use systems against other players holy hell.
You think my mindset is bias towards PvP when that is not the case, you are so bias you just refuse to listen what people says when you think it relates to pvp affecting you and get overly defenseless. This last part has nothing to do with the current discussion but honestly if you think the onyl issues in a MMORPG that is PvX only relates to PvE issues you are very, very wrong. If you prefer only PvE this game won't be for you. I can't even raise a god damn issue that relates to PvP without you being god damn worried. And yes issues that relate to PvP will effect PvE content, and vis versa and that is just how it is.
Especially since your views of the way the game should be don't match with Steven's views.
You continue to be so ignorant and biased that you can't comprehend the pertinense of how what I said relates to your absurd point.
I keep telling you it's not an exploit.
It's not getting around systems.
You can say the Earth is flat as many times as you like. Won't make it true.
Overly defenseless? Are you so worked up you can't think straight? You mean overly defensive??
Just because you imgine an issue does not mean what you imagined is valid.
In this case it's not a valid issue.
I've known many people over the years that only play MMO's for the crafting. They often get out and take part in other aspects of the game, but it is the crafting that they are in the game for. I have also seen people that only play MMO's for house decorating, among other things - the key takeaway here for you should be that the way you play an MMORPG is not the only way to play an MMORPG. Even if the game is set to be somewhat competitive, that does not dictate how everyone has to play the game.
Intrepid have already talked in the past about how being primarily a crafter is a valid way to play Ashes, where you pay others to be your muscle rather than fighting for yourself. This is absolutely the intent they have for the game.
Going back to the suggestion to tie crafting and combat profession - I wouldn't have got in to the discussion if it didn't go against what Intrepid have already said on the matter.
You are missing my point.
I am not proposing anything. I am simply talking about what Intrepid have said the intent is.
Here we go again, i already called you out and you couldn't even answer about these views. Seriosuly stop trying to talk for him you aren't him, use exact quotes
Here we go again YES its a exploit, i seriously can't believe you don't understand...you don't play PvP in mmos seriously clearly. It honestly is so frustrating you keep talking about Steven like you know exactly what is going to happen, liek the game is fully done and the systems are all online in game and have been tested without any exploits happening in them. You don't understand a single thing when it comes to PvP and people exploiting is all I see from you.
As far as design i have a much better understanding then you, including the fact that things can change in games when they are tested and bringing up red flags is important so things can't be exploited.
How to exploit a lowbie for dummies
1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas
2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it.
3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die
4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely.
1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging.
2. Bait player to flag on your high level.
3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb.
4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
In most PvE games, a mobs aggro range is determined by the level of the player. If you bring a low level character in to a high level area, you would have every mob for miles attacking them. Since mobs have both ranged attacks and AoE's, there is no viable way a group of players that are the same level as the encounters would be able to keep that low level player alive for long.
The second one may indeed be possible, and is something I pointed out to Intrepid about 4 years ago. Their response was that they will see how it goes during testing.
I mentioned that about the PvE systems in a previous post, but just because it can be prevented because of pve situations doesn't mean its not something that we shouldn't be aware of being a possibility, if the pve systems don't do that well enough.
Be aware of; yes.
Ask for changes to corruption to deal with; no.
Because corruption is it's own system with it's own purpose that is arguably one of the most important in the game, it should never be altered in any way to deal with anything other than the corruption system not working as intended.
Both of the scenarios above have far better ways to fix them (the first scenario - fix PvE, the second scenario - fix PvP flagging). As such, there is no reason at all to alter the corruption system.
But they are not exploits.
Issues, perhaps - but not exploits.
They can't be exploits, as Intrepid are aware of them, and have been for years. If either of the two scenarios you talked about make it in to the game as being possible, it is by design.
LMAO
You keep calling me out - with worthless, ignorant drek.
Um.
2: Even if you give your gear to the lowbie, you still have to work off your Corruption and other death penalties.
3: Dunno how you ensure that you are able to survive combat while you are naked.
4: Who says that you can protect that lowbie from all the mobs in that area?
Again you are just making crap up in your head. It's not going to be that easy in the actual game.
2: LMAO! Assuming you find a weak-minded person to take your bait.
3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? You can't accidentally attack and kill the lowbies.
I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.
I disagree
If someone just wants to be a crafter but need a material that only a high level XYZ can farm they might hire a body guard to take them to an area to get enough stuff to go back and continue their crafter life... That 100% falls in line with quotes about potential game play routes for players to choose from.
Honestly if you don't understand pvp you really shouldn't just say random things. You are trying to point them like each is a point, no its step 1-4. Let me educate you again.
2 - Clearly you need to work off your corrupting its clear how the game works.
3 - Even if the lowbie can't make it back and they try on their own without someone to escort them back and kill the mobs. Not all of the items will be dropped on death and it can be picked up by another player. (Compared to a red player having *4 the penalties on death and most likely dropping most the material he just pked off someone.)
4.No crap is being made and we don't know how it will be in the game as the game isn't out yet stop assuming things. Again even if you die you won't lose everything. This isnt a random meta you do against strangers of course you pick your target well that will give you some big drops and kill a few people.
2. Why are you laughing...you don't understand pvp nor how creative people can be. You use a rogue class or one that can teleport (Yes we know they won't have full invis) You pick a good location so they aren't aware the lowbies run it. Eevn if this si 40% effective you can't mess around with equipped gear dropping.....
3. Please don't be like this please your your brain if you are going to talk crap. You understand the corruption please just think why you would bomb.
4. The point is for them to show up mid fight while people are flagged, of course they don't know, that is the whole point,..
I've played more mmorpgs then you i understand how things can work. With how things will work in game that we don't know so we can only raise flags to people can be aware of things that can happen and they can make sure the least amount of exploits are used.
Honestly I feel you aren't helping convos while your point right here is you thinking things can't happen and not understanding the true mind set of all elements people will use in PvP. Like im trying to figure out why you are arguing on this, you could be throwing solutions instead regardless if you believe it will happen or not.
4 - I'm not the one assuming things. I'm telling you what the game design is.
You have not supported your inane concept at all. You're not telling me "how PvP works", you're just demonstrating how your addled imagination works.
2 - What??? There are lowbies at the location. Let's say they are "running it". Let's say they are Invisible, so rival players aren't aware of them.
3 - I don't understand the "Corruption Bomb". How does the "Corruption Bomb" work?
4 - The invisible lowbies show up mid fight and... do what? If they are invisble they cannot be attacked by the rival players. You have to willfully target individual players in order to flag against them for PvP. You cannot accidentally target a player and flag against them.
Once the lowbies reveal themselves, their levels and gear can be checked to see if they are worth the risk of attacking. But if the lowbies are not attacking, they can be ignored.
Again --- you don't understand the Ashes game design.
But, you don't understand the Ashes flagging system.
You cannot help conversations if you do not understand the Ashes game design.
Doesn't matter how many other MMORPGs you've played.
I guess I am missing your point. What are you saying is the intent of ashes in regards to this conversation? Because my last post was arguing that the mechanic being discussed goes against the idea of a PvX genre by allowing a player to avoid the PVP content
The majority of Crafters will not be striving to be the top tier, best of all the best, Crafter.
Getting Master Crafter will be good enough for the vast majority of players. And you don't have to belong to a Scientific Node to become a Master Crafter. You can be a very proficient Crafter without belonging to a Scientific Node.
Sure. Some people may be focused on being great Crafters. Some people may be focused on being great Tradesmen.
The players who are obsessed with having a character who is the best of the best Crafter and having another character who is the best of the best Tradesmen on the same server will probably multibox, but... that will be exceedingly rare.
Most people will settle with being great at one and pretty good at the other(s).
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the context of this topic, though.
Back to this again
2. If players do not drop anything on death from mob kills, then it only makes this exploit even more effective giving gear to the low level player / non corrupted player, so you don't lose any mats upon death and can safely go back to town if you were to be killed by a mob. (only thing that is moot is your foresight)
3. You literarily don't know what the game design it, it is being discussed and created. There is a vision is mine that they are working to of course.
Honestly you wouldn't know game design if it slapped you in the face. Again you can't even understand exploits....
Honestly reading the other part you don't understand corrupting bombing I feel i can't actually have a discussion with you. Please go understand the systems in the game and basic pvp flagging. The fact you don't understand people can jump in mid fight while someone is flagged is insane.
Stop saying I don't understand the design when you don't understand game development, design, troubleshooting, etc. clearly I have a much better grasp then you and that is why I feel like I'm talking to a god damn wall. Even if I explain every detail you most likely still won't understand you don't do serious pvp just chalk it up to that with your inexperience of missing how those system can be taken advantage of when as you are given examples.