Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
The only difference between L2's karma system and AoC's corruption system is the resources that drop on death. Yes, there's also the stat dampening for Red players, but that's a change for such extreme cases that we can disregard that for now.
We've yet to see exactly how much stuff we drop on death, so it's difficult to say how much desire there'll be in people to kill another player for their resources (and that's even considering that you'd know which resources that target even has).
From what I've seen from pvp-dislikers and alleged casuals, their main problem is that they'll get attacked out of nowhere for no apparent reason while they're just chilling and doing their thing. From all my experience in L2, that would happen maaaaybe once a week and that's only if you came across some PK-lover who's just going around harassing people (any pvpers hate them too and love to hunt them asap).
Now what should be added to that experience is that L2 had several "people funnels" that always pushed players of a similar lvl together to create that good ol' soft friction that Steven likes to mention. And the higher your lvl was, the fewer funnels there'd be (but they'd be all-encompassing), so at top lvls your usual day in L2 would be spent in maybe 2-3 locations and that IF you wanted to farm different things that day. Within that funnel you'd have even more "sub-funnels" based on the lvl of mobs and their drops. So within those limited high lvl locations you'd have a limited amount of rooms to farm.
And in the context of all of that, most (if not all) people completely understood the concept of "I gotta fight for my right to party farm". If someone attacked you while you were farming those rooms - that wasn't "out of nowhere" and it wasn't "for no reason". You knew exactly why they did so and you usually were prepared for it (held the camera pointed at the entrance to your dungeon room). And you'd usually do the same to the person who was farming that room before you.
This was the social contract of the game and the flagging system supported it. While you were farming, you'd see a dude stand at the entrance to your room (if camera angles allowed, he'd probably be standing just outside around the corner looking in). He'd watch you farm the mobs to see how strong you are. If you were strong, there'd be a chance he'll just move along to check out other room. If you were slow and weak, he might just start pulling mobs himself and start killing them way faster than you, non-verbally telling you "this is my room now because I can farm it better". In the case of the latter, you might try attacking him to show him that your pvp is stronger than your pve (I've seen such cases before). If you do in fact win in pvp, there's a chance that he comes back to fight you again, if the fight was really tight and equal (especially if you attacked him while he was fighting mobs). Run-back time could range from just seconds to a minute or two, depending on how deep you were in the dungeon (L2 had a TP system), which allowed you to prepare for his return and maybe have a better rotation for the fight (he would have it too). If you won again, quite a lot of people would just change rooms at this point because in their eyes you earned your farm of that room.
And due to how dungeons were designed, the run-back (or just getting deeper into the dungeon) would have you pass other lower lvled rooms with people farming them, which usually would dissuade people from PKing, because they knew that there were people (even if they were low lvl) who'd immediately run to kill you for some potential juicy lot. That was the case because a shout in chat would usually cover the whole dungeon's area (sometimes even more), so just yellng "hey peeps, there's a PK in such and such room - go kill 'em, they're low on hp" would usually not only provide a swift revenge, but would even have a chance of someone resurrecting you after they've dealt with the PKer (done so myself a ton of times).
Now all of that is just an example of how the social side of the flagging system worked. Unless we literally drop 50% of our resources on death in Ashes, I highly doubt the contract would be too different from the one in L2, so I truly believe that people are way too scared of the system that they've never experienced before.
Now the main exception to this line of thinking is L2's guild wars and what I believe AoC's equivalent of them to be - node wars. My example from L2 mainly worked for party gameplay, because most dungeons in L2 required you to be in a party (or at least with a full stack of support chars). Anything soloable was the land of the casuals that rarely had pvp, outside of low lvl guild war squabbles. And those squabbles were the main hardcore part of the whole pvp system.
Being in a guild that was at war could be very taxing and difficult for the unprepared. Most locations would have at least a few players from the warring guild (especially if you were at war with a big guild or against several guilds), who'd have complete ffa PKing rights against you. You afked for one minute to get some tea? You might come back to a dead character with the chat log reading "so and so dealt 10 hits of this much damage to you"(with that player being from a warring guild). You were peacefully farming a lower lvled room in some dungeon? The high lvl warring dudes would kill you on their way deeper into the dungeon just cause you were at war with them.
I'm assuming this is the experience of most WoW players or really any other faction-based mmo players, because that's usually the case in faction-based mmos, where people have full PKing rights for their enemies. Now what made L2 better than all those faction-based shitholes is that you could leave your guild at any time. Most reasonable GLs would be fine with you leaving for a while to get stronger, and quite a lot of them would just have a second guild for all the players who wanted to still stay in touch, but didn't want to suffer the war difficulties.
Now, AoC's guild wars will be way more goal-based in the design, as opposed to a just "we're at war until someone exits it like a pussy or until we have a bigger enemy to kill together"-type of deal from L2. And iirc Ashes guild wars will be more of an evening event than endless slaughter of your enemies. But Node Wars, from what I've read, seem like the exact copy of L2's guild wars. The mayor declares war on another node and both sides' citizens have a ffa fight through the duration of the war.
The main problem I see with that system is that changing a Node is not as easy as changing a guild in L2 was, so most casuals who live in a Node at war would probably have a bad time. And I think that this feature will have to be tested even more than the Corruption system to truly know what a casual's day in the game would look like and how scary would any prospect of pvp be for them.
TL;DR we've seen this flagging system function just fine before, so I really don't think it's as spooky as some people make it out to be.
The proposed "bot deterrent" basically makes crafting alts impossible in the game, and so simply should not happen - it is not a reasonable trade off between the effect it would have on bots (minimal) vs the impact it will have on players (massive, for some players).
Take this new information in hand, go back and read the post in question, and see if it makes a bit more sense. Just take note to only read the actual words written.
I really hate the there is no between, really could be cool if everyone of all sides could just try the system then judge when we know hw it works and how it feels. I've said it before the system is more skewed towards casual and pve players and its fine, i can still guild dec.
Like even if you pk someone and get their loot and 20 other people see you, they are going to flag up. And if you kill them your corruption only gets worse. If im a casual or pver I'm glad the system on a design stand point feels as powerful as possible to making it hell for a pvper.
There are only more valid points you could look at the system and question certain things rather then going straight to pve servers or this game dies.
Why are you saying reading is your friend? Are you trying to insult?
edit*
You realize I read what you said right?
This is somewhat closer to the truth, but is still missing a key factor - one that I have been arguing about for years.
Imagine you are a primarily PvE player. You're fine with some PvP, and even enjoy it on occasion. However, PvE is what you primarily want to do in a game.
Now imagine there is a game that launches that requires some PvP. This is fine, and won't turn you away from the game in itself. However, the game also has below average PvE - which is the best description of PvE in Ashes as we understand it so far.
All of a sudden, you have no interest in that game.
In order for Ashes to attract this player, the games PvE needs to be better than any other games that player would consider playing. THe quality of that PvE needs to counteract the loss that player will see due to PvP, and still be the best game for that player.
This is what is needed to bring in primarily PvE players. It has literally nothing to do with convincing them the PvP systems are fine - it is all about convincing them they have a game to play.
The problem here as well is that "farming spots" are not content to these people, this is an L2 family of games thing, and is actually a sad excuse for content to anyone not from those games. Open world dungeons are content, however, if they are large enough to support the groups that will be in there. Open world bosses are PvP content to these people.
So, taking all of that in to account, and what we know of PvE players, this isn't a game to even look at right now - and this has nothing at all to do with the corruption system.
That doesn't mean PvE servers are the answer. That is a hard no.
Wait, so you also believe it to be an Alt Advantage Deterrent? That's amazing! Its even better than i expected!
Making Bots lifes and the lifes of people wanting to mess around the systems with advantageous low level alts feels like a dream.
Thank you for the information Noaani, it makes me even more confident in the bot deterrent ideas i discussed with Dolyem in this thread and more aversed by the bot and alt beneficiary ideas.
Aren't we all sinners?
This is a unique take on things, if that is what you think.
In literally every other game I have played, alt advantage refers to when the game has daily or weekly tasks that reward the character more than the time spent would dictate, where running it on multiple characters generates additional rewards for you. Archeages holiday events are a prime example of this.
I have never seen it applied to someone leveling up a crafting alt. That is just an odd usage for the term, and one I can't say I agree with at all.
Yes, i believe any advantage you can provide to your main character through alts is a bad thing, the bigger the possible advantage, the worst, very low amounts can be acceptable even if not ideal.
No matter what game, alt advantage refers exactly to what the words says, advantage provided by alts.
AA had many other sources of alt advantage, may it be alts advantage through Songcraft buffing on mount back advantage,the alt acting as a extra pack slot, as a coinpurse money generator or other proficiency focus due to the extra labor and much more.
Aren't we all sinners?
If developers didn't want players using alts, they wouldn't let you make alts. You are welcome to have any other wrong opinion on the matter that you want - just be aware that any other opinion is indeed wrong.
Your Archeage examples are all referring to having a second account, not having an alt.
It depends, are we talking P2W consumables or consumables that exclusively requires an alt to be acquired?
Devs wants cash pal, why would they stop you from giving them even more cash by having an alt?
Come on Noaani, i know you can do better than that, you understand that a character in a second account is also considered an alt? right?
Aren't we all sinners?
The proposed system with making it so that profession level OR combat level dictates corruption would mean players can't use the multiple character slots their subscription fee allocates them to create crafting alts - an MMORPG staple for actual decades.
and usually same account alts provides way less advantage than second account alts can provide.
Second alt accounts providing more advantage and also costing another subscription fee can become indirect P2W.
Oh, they can still use "the multiple character slots their subscription fee allocates them to create crafting alts"
its just going to have a RISK associated with that advantage(REWARD)
Aren't we all sinners?
Yep, i agree with you mag, if the crafter alt takes the same effort to "get up there" and not just staying level 1 in a freehold raising its crafting level at no risk.
Aren't we all sinners?
For some, it is using consumables. They can't be bothered buying them from other players, or making their own, so anyone that does use consumables is cheating.
For others, it is using a crafting alt. Not the topic we are talking about here. There is already risk.
What this would do - if Intrepid were dumb enough to do it (they are not) - is remove the risk from attacking these characters, but leaving in the reward.
Indeed.
Crafting alts are good - up to a point (which is limited by character slots and the time it takes to master professions).
However, for crafting alts to exist, they need to maintain the acquiring of corruption to be based on combat level only.
The problem isn't having a crafting alt, it is having a crafting alt without risk but plenty of advantage Still related to the previous answer.
Ok, i would like you to tell me what is the risk of having a lv 1(character level) master crafter locked inside your hideout raising its crafting level and crafting your stuff.
Aren't we all sinners?
None. They can't be attacked. You can't attack anyone in their freehold.
The problem then comes when that player does leave. Perhaps they want to level up their combat class now - but with the suggestion at debate here they would already be subject to PvP from all levels of character, rather than just those around their own combat ability.
That is not an appropriate level of risk vs reward for this character, nor for the player attacking them.
The idea just doesn't hold up to even a few seconds of rational thought.
Anyhow, I do not personally want any restrictions for the alts and I think that players should have a possibility to create freely different kind of characters (considering professions and classes) they want to. That is kind of the idea of alts.
I think someone already mentioned that profession level could be bound with character lvl, if needed.
However, since a level 1 character is not going to have access to all recipes, they are inherently limited.
Correct, but to reach the Max character level the crafter had to go through the risk of the owPvP of the game,
the lv 1 character had no risk at all and can still reap all the advantages of the high level crafting mastery.
The problem is, the player can simple chose to not leave. Why would the want to "level up their combat class", if the character is level 1 they can simple make another one and start leveling without the risks that would be associated with the lv 1 master crafter who already has all that risk free advantage.
This "problem" is unreasonable.
@Ferryman Yes, we still don't know for sure at this point if Life skills mastery levels will be bound or not to character levels.
I do want it to be tho.
Aren't we all sinners?
didn't saw this one, do you happen to have a wiki quote or video time stamp?
Aren't we all sinners?
The thing is, your suggestion won't affect people that make this decision at all, ever. If they don't leave their freehold, you can literally never attack them.
In fact, the design of the game kind of prevents these characters from leaving. If I have a main that I play the game on, I will want to get raw materials on this character and transfer them to my alt.
By actual design of the game, the only way I can transfer materials between alts is to use in house storage. As such, the design literally asks that alt to stay in that freehold and not leave.
It is literally how the game is being designed. As I said earlier, if you want to have a different, wrong opinion on this, you are welcome to that different wrong opinion.
It is when that character leaves that freehold (to level up in combat, as there is a limit to characters per account), that is when the proposal becomes unreasonable. It is subjecting that character to far greater risk than is warranted, and gives players that kill them a far greater reward than the risk would suggest is reasonable.
That is fine, you just put level requirements on being able to collect / hold higher level items so people aren't bringing dummy bag holding alts.
Oh don't worry it does affect people, atleast not for risk-free freehold crafing, but the gathering alts/bots that have to go out there in the world to get their stuff done.
To deal with the risk-free freehold crafing possibility, the bound between character level and Artisan Mastery level would be required, taking a max character level with max level crafting to craft max level stuff.
Which can certainly still be put inside the safe freehold to craft their stuff without risk, but atleast they had the risk of the journey to reach max character level.
With the bound between character level and Artisan Mastery level the "Artisan Mastery level counting as character level for corruption idea" would become unecessary.
It's good to talk to you Noaani(even when you're wrong), now i know exactly what to ask in the Livestream Q&A thread.
Aren't we all sinners?