DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
2 - Giving your gear to a lowbie is fine. You still have to work of your Corruption and other death penalties. You act as though gear degradation is the only penalty to be concerned about. It's not. You will still drop a portion of your mats, but sure, you could also give all your mats to the lowbie.
You are fighting naked and then you, if you survive, you still have to deal with working off your Corruption and skill and stat dampening. You give the looted mats to the lowbie, but you still have to both survive the trip back to where-ever you are going. You have to survive attacks from other players while traveling as Corrupted.
The lowbie hs to survive attacks from the high tier mobs while traveling.
You don't understand what the Ashes game design is.
The devs have shared what the Ashes game design is.
What we don't know is how well it will be implemented.
But, according to the current game design, your imagined exploits are not possible and would be ineffective if someone tried them.
How "basic PvP flagging has worked in previous MMORPGs is irrelevant. What matters is how Ashes PvP flagging works.
LMAO
I was a game dev for 10 years, so...
I understand game design and game development quite well.
You can convince yourself of anything, but...
You are actually failing miserably at being convincing with your imagined exploits.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah...I mean...I hope we're all having fun theorycrafting on the Forums while we wait for more official info... and for Alpha 2.
2 - Giving your gear to a lowbie is fine. You still have to work of your Corruption and other death penalties. You act as though gear degradation is the only penalty to be concerned about. It's not. You will still drop a portion of your mats, but sure, you could also give all your mats to the lowbie.
You are fighting naked and then you, if you survive, you still have to deal with working off your Corruption and skill and stat dampening. You give the looted mats to the lowbie, but you still have to both survive the trip back to where-ever you are going. You have to survive attacks from other players while traveling as Corrupted.
The lowbie hs to survive attacks from the high tier mobs while traveling.
You don't know what the game design is.
We know what the game design is.
What we don't know is how well it will be implemented.
But, according to the current game design, your imagined exploits are not possible and would be ineffective if someone tried them.
LMAO
I was a game dev for 10 years, so...
I understand game design and game development quite well.
You can convince yourself of anything, but...
You are actually failing miserably at being convincing with your imagined exploits.
cool story I've played games and mmorpgs for years, more then you. Took classes for game development worked in it, as well as working tv shows and featured films.
"We" who is we, you sound like you are talking for someone.
All I see from you is short sighted behavior and most likely someone that can't take criticism. Someone raises a concern of a issue and your way of replying is by typing lmao and not actually bringing any facts tot he table but talking like you know development first hand, and talking like its a finished product that isn't still being made imo.
Though its nice to see a proper response for once at the very least besides being full of unprofessionalism, legit you are bringing the worst out of me.
2. I still missing the point....corrupted player is giving all the mats to the lowbie meaning they having nothing to lose as far as mats are concerned. If the lowbie doesn't lose anything when dying to mobs with what you stated before, it would mean even if they die which would be the fastest way, you could quickly return to town and bank the mats.
Corrupted player of course wants to survive, but if the goal is getting lots of mats then working the corruption off they are able to play white lowering the risk of loss of mats at the very least, and the substitute gear they have equipped being dropped potentially worst case scenario
I'm just going to end it here, the point of bringing this up is it doesn't matter the chance of how often then could happen but competitive players will use whatever means possible and all cases should be brought up. In order to make sure systems in game help prevent the use of characters like this in not a normal situations do to how strong the corruption system is.
Instead of being an ass and trying to dismiss things even if you don't think its important other people will have concern with it based on their own experience with PvP. Just be reasonable and say why you think it won't happen as well as ways that could help to avoid potential issues.
All I see from you is short sighted behavior and most likely someone that can't take criticism. Someone raises a concern of a issue and your way of replying is by typing lmao and not actually bringing any facts tot he table but talking like you know development first hand, and talking like its a finished product that isn't still being made imo.
Though its nice to see a proper response for once at the very least besides being full of unprofessionalism, legit you are bringing the worst out of me.
Mmm hmmn Mr. Pot.
You bring the worst out of yourself.
2. I still missing the point....corrupted player is giving all the mats to the lowbie meaning they having nothing to lose as far as mats are concerned. If the lowbie doesn't lose anything when dying to mobs with what you stated before, it would mean even if they die which would be the fastest way, you could quickly return to town and bank the mats.
I am not missing the point. That is an irrelevant point.
(Only Corrupted drop gear. Players who are not Corrupted only drop a portion of resources and mats. So, the lowbie might drop those prized, coveted mats if they die from a high tier mob.)
Corrupted player of course wants to survive, but if the goal is getting lots of mats then working the corruption off they are able to play while lowering the risk of loss of mats at the very least, and the substitute gear they have equipped being dropped potentially worst case scenario .
Who says that they will be able to get lots of mats from trying to kill people while they're wearing subpar gear?
They can risk that, sure. Just because they risk it, does not mean they will succeed. That's not an exploit.
That's the risk v reward that is a core objective of the Ashes game design.
The point of bringing this up is it doesn't matter the chance of how often then could happen but competitive players will use whatever means possible and all cases should be brought up. In order to make sure systems in game help prevent the use of characters like this in not a normal situations do to how strong the corruption system is.
You can bring it up.
That's already been covered in the current game design.
Instead of being an ass and trying to dismiss things even if you don't think its important other people will have concern with it based on their own experience with PvP. Just be reasonable and say why you think it won't happen as well as ways that could help to avoid potential issues.
Informing you that that's already been covered in the current game design is not me being an ass.
Your experience with PvP in other games is not as important as how PvP flagging is designed to work in Ashes.
Reasonable - I think you don't know the meaning of that word.
All I see from you is short sighted behavior and most likely someone that can't take criticism. Someone raises a concern of a issue and your way of replying is by typing lmao and not actually bringing any facts tot he table but talking like you know development first hand, and talking like its a finished product that isn't still being made imo.
Though its nice to see a proper response for once at the very least besides being full of unprofessionalism, legit you are bringing the worst out of me.
Mmm hmmn Mr. Pot.
You bring the worst out of yourself.
2. I still missing the point....corrupted player is giving all the mats to the lowbie meaning they having nothing to lose as far as mats are concerned. If the lowbie doesn't lose anything when dying to mobs with what you stated before, it would mean even if they die which would be the fastest way, you could quickly return to town and bank the mats.
I am not missing the point. That is an irrelevant point.
Corrupted player of course wants to survive, but if the goal is getting lots of mats then working the corruption off they are able to play while lowering the risk of loss of mats at the very least, and the substitute gear they have equipped being dropped potentially worst case scenario .
Who says that they will be able to get lots of mats while they are trying to kill people while they're waering subpar gear? And, again...
Who says that the lowbie can survive traveling through the high tier area?? You always ignore that very pertninent question.
The point of bringing this up is it doesn't matter the chance of how often then could happen but competitive players will use whatever means possible and all cases should be brought up. In order to make sure systems in game help prevent the use of characters like this in not a normal situations do to how strong the corruption system is.
You can bring it up.
That's already been covered in the current game design.
Instead of being an ass and trying to dismiss things even if you don't think its important other people will have concern with it based on their own experience with PvP. Just be reasonable and say why you think it won't happen as well as ways that could help to avoid potential issues.
Informing you that that's already been covered in the current game design is not me being an ass.
Your experience with PvP in other games is not as important as how PvP flagging is designed to work in Ashes.
Reasonable - I think you don't know the meaning of that word.
I'm saying your who demeaner is just rude really. The way you have been responding in general.
Who says they can't kill someone without using their best gear, it doens't matter if the lowbie makes it back to town by walking. They can die not lose any drops and get sent back tot he safe spot id assume is close to town. (if not they simply keep trying and if for some reason its impossible they wait for their friend to take them back).
Guess i should continue to expect your rudeness. Again its not irrelevant its a valid point to bring up as it reduces the risk. Ashes is designed as a risk vrs reward system you should understand that at least.
If tis been covered in the design then im bringing a valid point don't say what is ay is irreverent its rude. There are 100 ways you can go about it, first off you can share information being like I agree with you and they already have a plan or stuff like this.
Instead you are to busy trying to say my views don't match steven's and right now you are saying " that's already been covered in the current game design " so clearly my view isn't that far off in seeing certain issues that pop up.....
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
I know what you said.
That is the pot calling the kettle black.
Whether or not PKers can kill someone while not wearing their best gear is part of the rsik v reward that is a pillar of the Ashes game design. That is not an exploit.
It matters if the lowbie doesn't make it back to safety with the high tier mats they are muling.
If they die, they won't lose gear. If they die, they will drop resources and mats.
Again, the point here is that you don't understand the Ashes game design.
But, for some reason you fly off the handle when I explain to you what the Ashes game design is.
People can continue the risk v reward loop as often as they like.
That is a key aspect of the Ashes game design. That's not an exploit.
Um. I did share the info with you.
Let's review the replies...
Mag7spy: The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
Dygz:It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.
I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.
Mag7spy:You don't understand the mind set of a pvp player.....Simply trying to defend everything because you think it affects PvE is not good. That is why you need to step away from PvE bias, pve bias in a PvX game does not work in understanding design exploits.
Im saying its 90% for pvpers to exploit for their own benefit with bringing a low level to use for themselves with their group.....
Dygz: The mindset of a PvP player is irrelevant.
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
Who was rude to whom first?
You poked at me first. And when I returned the poke, you couldn't take the shit you dished out.
I don't have to "understand the mindset of a PvP player".
Just because a PvPer has the mindset to try an "exploit" does not mean the "exploit" can succeed.
Steven is a PvP player who now is a game designer.
And he only hires devs who have worked on other MMORPGs. Many of the from SOE/Daybreak.
The devs are the ones who truly need to understand the minds of PvP players and design with that in mind.
They have. I tried to explain that to you. And you took offense simply because I told you that what you think is an exploit is not an exploit in the Ashes game design. And some of your exploit concepts aren't even possible due to how the Ashes PvP-flagging mechanic is designed.
It's OK for you to think I'm rude. I am nice, but not polite.
Nice is different than good.
But...in this case, I just mirrored your tone back at you...and you couldn't handle what you dished out.
Mag7spy: The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
Dygz: It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.
My point had nothing to do how often PvP can be avoided, that was you with ego not listening to what was being said.
Dygz:
The mindset of a PvP player is irrelevant.
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
Again its about reducing risk by tossing your gear to someone else while corrupted, a low level being the best deterrent to either corruption bomb and hold the mats you stole off killing someone else.
Who was rude to whom first?
You poked at me first. And when I returned the poke, you couldn't take the shit you dished out.
Me saying I have a better understanding of PvP and pve is poking you... after you were there laughing pretty much saying I don't understand pve threats when clearly I do...
Who's mindset is relevant then Dygz? tests for 350+ people at seige and plans for up to 10,000 player's to exist on each server, this is a game leaning towards conflict and co-operation.
"Because, I do truly believe based on the metrics that we're looking at, that this will be one of the largest and most successful MMOs.” are these the words of someone looking to alienate people who enjoy competitive elements in their games?
"Who said Ashe's is going to be competitive", have an actual arguement to go with that??
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
Firstly, why would a game be designed so poorly that there would be a need for a lvl 1 to exist with a very level player and if exp penalities for that scenerio don't exist then it's not an exploit but just as bad, it's a super easy avenue for the dedicated/no life playerbase to lvl alts or hardcore allies who started late.
You claim to be a dev but honestly, all you a a handful of other people on these forums stand for is having a 0-100% "fun" completition state with zero regard for players who are playing this game a lot or non stop, their influences on the world will have a massive effect on casual/average consumers.
...and this zero regard for player influence on a game ruled by economy/objectives(nodes etc)/guilds must stem from the possibility that you've never experienced living in a game with these conditions, unlike players who have ploughed hours into the likes of Lineage 2 and Archeage.
People who rely on alts for Crafting typically do so because they have tons of time to Craft - time when other players are busy doing other stuff or don't have as much time to play.
Makes it easier for the hardcore time Crafters to help the casual time players acquire the items they want.
...and this highlights your inexperience massively, "solving" 1 scenerio while leaving the hardcore playerbase to absolutely plunder and dominate masses of gold from the game's economy.
Intrepid have already talked in the past about how being primarily a crafter is a valid way to play Ashes, where you pay others to be your muscle rather than fighting for yourself. This is absolutely the intent they have for the game.
Going back to the suggestion to tie crafting and combat profession - I wouldn't have got in to the discussion if it didn't go against what Intrepid have already said on the matter.
Yes, I'm sure it's not going to be fleshed out a lot more, "just part of the game lads! make a crafter when you've got spare time and start crafting!".
I implore the intent, unfortunetly until it's fleshed out and we get more info, it's nothing more than a pseudo improvement to the game that bends economy and purpose in the wrong way.
People who rely on alts for Crafting typically do so because they have tons of time to Craft - time when other players are busy doing other stuff or don't have as much time to play.
Makes it easier for the hardcore time Crafters to help the casual time players acquire the items they want.
...and this highlights your inexperience massively, "solving" 1 scenerio while leaving the hardcore playerbase to absolutely plunder and dominate masses of gold from the game's economy.
I would say you both have a good point here. However, I am more concerned that competitive guilds will dominate the economy because individual crafters cannot compete with guild crafting alts. I presume this is what NishUK is after as well.
It sure makes things easier when all recipes and resources inside a guild will be centralized to certain refining and crafting alts. This makes things much more efficient and guild gets access to end-gear faster and this way dominate markets.
This is a system which not all players like because they want to do professions on high level as well. Typically this kind of system favors core members of competitive guilds because their alts are chosen to these task, obviously.
Therefore, are we okay with that fact the best master crafters in servers will be alts like that and not individual players who have used multiple times more effort and yet still not be as good? I am also interested what is developers thoughts about this matter. Are they fine with this or will there be restrictive systems which at least slows down the inevitable.
I liked this post, how it describes why PvE players might not like the game.
But maybe there is still a chance to get PvE players without offering those traditional PvE content the other PvE MMOs have. Yes, the players who want that specific kind of content will not come (many flashy quests safe from PvP)
From my perspective, if the game doesn't have the content these people want, then they will not play the game.
However, what I will say is that your seeming understanding of what content I am talking about is well off. The people I am talking about would indeed expect many quests(among other things), and perhaps even flashy quests (though I wouldn't know how to quantify this), but they would not be expecting their quest endeavors to be free from PvP.
Therefore, are we okay with that fact the best master crafters in servers will be alts like that and not individual players who have used multiple times more effort and yet still not be as good?
Yea, well I genuinely believe that more people would be in favor of concentrating strength on their preferred role, as the negative has always been on games that reward a competitive mindset "to be a complete player (easy profit meta), you have to have a crafter, gatherer, alt for farming a lower level boss and whatever else" and that leads to ugly and necessary time sinks.
There's no problem in my mind, for all characters to have, at best, a decent level of crafting, gathering or whatever capability, for there to be a different entertainment avenue besides slugging it with creatures and players.
Specilization is what makes for player content, pride and reward and I would like that to be a priority vision, some alt fed a ton of resources by friends or themselves and easily reaching levels of crafting top end kit is the exact same drivvle every hardcore player knows from past experiences.
If AoC is fun enough I will do "extra ciriculum activities" but no one is going to say this is top level entertainment.
I would say as well. The game needs to have certain content to attract specific audiance. I can see that professions and quests are in Ashes something that especially PvE players like. Also PvE players usually like to explore, collect and achieve. People likes to collect transmog and mounts and compete challenging PvE content such as dungeons raids and world bosses.
According to wiki: "Engaging and immersive story" is one of the design pillars. This means that in practice there will be various quests and questlines, tasks and narrative events. Quests can be related to e.g. individual stories, races, professions, nodes, religions and even legendary questlines. At least all this sounds like there will be a lot of things to do for those who likes stories and quests.
Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
My point had nothing to do how often PvP can be avoided, that was you with ego not listening to what was being said.
Nothing to do with my ego and everything to do with your poor grammar.
Your ego has you believing that you can write sentences with poor spelling and poor grammar and still be perfectly understood.
But, yeah, you clarified what you meant by the poor sentence you wrote already.
Again its about reducing risk by tossing your gear to someone else while corrupted, a low level being the best deterrent to either corruption bomb and hold the mats you stole off killing someone else.
You can do that regardless of the level of the person you toss your gear to.
You can just leave your gear at home and wear your subpar gear.
Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that people will want to bring Master Crafters with them to dungeons and raids to Gather the best loot. Even if those Master Crafters are low level Adventurers which the high level group needs to protect from rival groups who battle for control of the dungeon.
That is not an exploit. It is part of the risk v reward pillar of the Ashes game design.
Corruption Bomb is not a thing that is possible in Ashes as far as I can tell.
You still need to explain what that is supposed to be if it's something different that the tactic I already told you cannot happen in Ashes due the way the Ashes PvP flagging system is designed.
Me saying I have a better understanding of PvP and pve is poking you... after you were there laughing pretty much saying I don't understand pve threats when clearly I do...
I did not start by laughing at you.
And, no, you did not say - "I have a better understanding of PvP than you."
What you said is, "You don't understand the mind set of a pvp player.....Simply trying to defend everything because you think it affects PvE is not good. That is why you need to step away from PvE bias, pve bias in a PvX game does not work in understanding design exploits."
And I replied to you that my knowledge of the mindset of the PvP player is irrelevant. (The mindset of the PKer attempting these exploits is also irrelevant to the outcome.)
I don't need to know the mindset of the PvP player. I just need to know how the Ashes game design either does not consider your scenario to be an exploit - when it is even possible to successfully bring a Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter to a high tier area and safely return them home.
But, also, Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter is going to be as rare as the Max Level Adventurer/0 Kills carebear challenge is in other MMORPGs. Most likely you will gain some Adventurer levels from exploration.
So, keeping Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter may only be theoretical. But, to be able to survive in high tier areas, people will be able to defend themselves from the local mobs, which will mean gaining Adventurer levels as well.
So, yes... we can discuss lowbie Adventurer Level/Master Crafter. But, again, that is already factored into Steven's risk v reward design goal:
The tactic of not wearing your best gear when you want to PK for high tier mats is part of expected and fair risk v reward gameplay. That is not an exploit.
The tactic of giving high tier mats to a lowbie character so that PKers choose not to PK them is also expected and fair risk v reward gameplay because the lowbies still have to avoid being killed by the high tier mobs as they try to return to safety. That is not an exploit. You get to risk that for thr rewards if you want to.
(If the lowbie is killed, they will drop resources and mats.)
TL;DR
I don't have to know how the PvP mindeset works.
I just need to know what the Ashes game design is.
Steven and Jeffrey already know how the PvP mindset works and factored your scenarios into the game design already.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Who's mindset is relevant then Dygz? tests for 350+ people at seige and plans for up to 10,000 player's to exist on each server, this is a game leaning towards conflict and co-operation.
"Because, I do truly believe based on the metrics that we're looking at, that this will be one of the largest and most successful MMOs.” are these the words of someone looking to alienate people who enjoy competitive elements in their games?
In the context of this discussion:
Whether or not I understand the mindset of the PvP player is irrelevant. (The mindset of the PKer attempting these exploits is also irrelevant to the outcome.)
Steven and Jeffrey understand the mindsets of PvP players and have already factored it into the game design.
I just need to know that:
1: The scenario of PKing while in subpar gear is already factored in as acceptable risk v reward gameplay.
2: Same for the scenario of handing high tier mats to lowbie "mules".
Those aren't considered to be exploits.
I didn't say anything about alienating people who enjoy competitive elements in games.
What I said is similar to my response when people claim that Ashes is a PvP game:
Who says Ashes is a PvP game? Ashes is a PvX game; not a PvP game.
Firstly, why would a game be designed so poorly that there would be a need for a lvl 1 to exist with a very level player and if exp penalities for that scenerio don't exist then it's not an exploit but just as bad, it's a super easy avenue for the dedicated/no life playerbase to lvl alts or hardcore allies who started late.
You claim to be a dev but honestly, all you a a handful of other people on these forums stand for is having a 0-100% "fun" completition state with zero regard for players who are playing this game a lot or non stop, their influences on the world will have a massive effect on casual/average consumers.
Who said anything about need?
When asked if it is possible to 100% avoid PvP in Ashes - both Steven and Jeffrey said they don't want to guarantee 100%, but, for the most part, yes, Crafters could do that.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "very level player". Is that supposed to be "very high level player"?
I think what you mean is: Why would a max level Adventurer want to adventure in a high tier area with a Level 1 Adventurer?
The devs want there to be mixes of levels and playstyles in all areas.
Max level Adventurers will want to bring along max level Gatherers in order to acquire the best loot.
If you want to risk bringing a low level Adventurer/Master Gatherer with you because they can get you the very
best resources and mats - you can risk that if you wish. It's not an exploit.
I don't know what you mean by - "if exp penalties for that scenario don't exist".
How has it been determined that it's super easy to create a Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter?
How has it been determined that it's super easy to keep a Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter alive in high tier areas?
Ashes has a Mentor feature. Seems like an "easy avenue for the dedicated/no life playerbase to level allies who started late."
Most gear is not BoP or BoE, so we can already twink alts and allies fairly easily.
I don't understand what you think is an issue.
...and this zero regard for player influence on a game ruled by economy/objectives(nodes etc)/guilds must stem from the possibility that you've never experienced living in a game with these conditions, unlike players who have ploughed hours into the likes of Lineage 2 and Archeage.
I have no clue why you mention that. Has nothing to do with anything I've said, as far as I know.
What makes you think I have zero regard for player influence?
Steven has ploughed through hours into the likes of Lineage 2 and ArcheAge.
He's the primary game designer and is supported by a team of veteran MMORPG designers.
I don't know anything about Karma, either.
But, I understand the description of Corruption...and I can trust that it's reasonable enough that Steven and his team of devs believe it's a viable design.
We will test it to see how successful the designs work when implemented in the game.
...and this highlights your inexperience massively, "solving" 1 scenerio while leaving the hardcore playerbase to absolutely plunder and dominate masses of gold from the game's economy.
Well, yeah, I give no fucks about player economy.
I am a socialist; not a capitalist.
Hardcore players can try to plunder and dominate masses of gold from the game's economy.
Pretty sure I will be sharing the stuff I Craft for free with the people I befriend.
And the game will allow other people to do that if they choose to.
Will also allow people to use alts to help with Crafting.
Steven and Jeffrey somewhere have a quote about how that factors into the Economy, IIRC.
Again, I don't have to understand how hardcore economist mindsets affected the Economy in previous MMORPGs.
I just need to know that Steven and Jeffrey already factored that into the Ashes game design, taking into account Steven's experiences in Lineage 2 and ArcheAge, as well as many other RPGs.
Honestly reading the other part you don't understand corrupting bombing I feel i can't actually have a discussion with you. Please go understand the systems in the game and basic pvp flagging. The fact you don't understand people can jump in mid fight while someone is flagged is insane.
The whole point of the current flagging system is to prevent karma bombing. Aoes don't hit non-combatants. In order to hit a non-combatant you have to target them, hold down a button and then hit them. Same as it was in L2. You can't be karma bombed unless you decide to gain corruption.
The only way a lowbie could "karma bomb" someone is if they'll be able to wear high lvl gear w/o any penalties (slow movement and such) and if the "power stat" icon on players have 0 indication of how high a player's lvl is (I sure as fuck hope it at least hints at it).
But even then, the attacker would have to want to go red. And then the gear scaling, in the context of ttk, would have to be so out of whack that a high/top lvl player literally one-shots a lowbie in high lvl gear (because I see no point for them to attack a dude in low lvl gear). And that doesn't fit Intrepid's planned design for ttk.
So karma bombing in Ashes will be almost impossible.
2
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Honestly reading the other part you don't understand corrupting bombing I feel i can't actually have a discussion with you. Please go understand the systems in the game and basic pvp flagging. The fact you don't understand people can jump in mid fight while someone is flagged is insane.
The whole point of the current flagging system is to prevent karma bombing. Aoes don't hit non-combatants. In order to hit a non-combatant you have to target them, hold down a button and then hit them. Same as it was in L2. You can't be karma bombed unless you decide to gain corruption.
The only way a lowbie could "karma bomb" someone is if they'll be able to wear high lvl gear w/o any penalties (slow movement and such) and if the "power stat" icon on players have 0 indication of how high a player's lvl is (I sure as fuck hope it at least hints at it).
But even then, the attacker would have to want to go red. And then the gear scaling, in the context of ttk, would have to be so out of whack that a high/top lvl player literally one-shots a lowbie in high lvl gear (because I see no point for them to attack a dude in low lvl gear). And that doesn't fit Intrepid's planned design for ttk.
So karma bombing in Ashes will be almost impossible.
So you are telling me if you have spells that target a location they do nothing against the player? That would raise other issues also including your basic attack not doing any damage.
So you are telling me if you have spells that target a location they do nothing against the player? That would raise other issues also including your basic attack not doing any damage.
Yes, aoes don't dmg non-combatants. And it's not an issue. It's intended design to avoid exactly the exploit you were trying to use to argue against Dygz.
So you are telling me if you have spells that target a location they do nothing against the player? That would raise other issues also including your basic attack not doing any damage.
Yes, aoes don't dmg non-combatants. And it's not an issue. It's intended design to avoid exactly the exploit you were trying to use to argue against Dygz.
Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.
Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.
It hasn't been mentioned because usually we like to assume that when someone suggests a change to the planned design, they know said design. This flagging system has been known since the very beginning afaik, because it was taken and improved from L2.
And what kind of disadvantage would you be in? If you're flagging on a person - you've made the first hit, unless that person has already flagged against you. And any lowbie won't kill you with just one hit, just as you shouldn't be able to do the same to them, so no disadvantage there either.
And if you're in a mass pvp where everyone is flagged, your aoes will be hitting all the flagged people.
Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.
It hasn't been mentioned because usually we like to assume that when someone suggests a change to the planned design, they know said design. This flagging system has been known since the very beginning afaik, because it was taken and improved from L2.
And what kind of disadvantage would you be in? If you're flagging on a person - you've made the first hit, unless that person has already flagged against you. And any lowbie won't kill you with just one hit, just as you shouldn't be able to do the same to them, so no disadvantage there either.
And if you're in a mass pvp where everyone is flagged, your aoes will be hitting all the flagged people.
What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?
Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.
What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?
Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.
The only assumption here is "if you're talking about a mechanic - you can at least look up how it works". Especially when you blame someone else for not understanding said mechanic, like you did with Dygz. That's where the ego comes in.
What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?
Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.
The only assumption here is "if you're talking about a mechanic - you can at least look up how it works". Especially when you blame someone else for not understanding said mechanic, like you did with Dygz. That's where the ego comes in.
Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.
He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.
*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.
Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.
He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.
*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.
As I saw it, Dygz didn't even know what that phrase meant, which is why he didn't know what and how to explain. And unless I missed it, you didn't explain to him what you meant by it. I know of that phrase because I've heard about it from the BDO players and could reverse-logic it out from what was "flag bombing" in L2, but not everyone has that kind of experience/knowledge. Especially in the case of Dygz whose pvp experience is limited to event/goal-based things, which never have these kinds of interactions.
Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.
He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.
*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.
As I saw it, Dygz didn't even know what that phrase meant, which is why he didn't know what and how to explain. And unless I missed it, you didn't explain to him what you meant by it. I know of that phrase because I've heard about it from the BDO players and could reverse-logic it out from what was "flag bombing" in L2, but not everyone has that kind of experience/knowledge. Especially in the case of Dygz whose pvp experience is limited to event/goal-based things, which never have these kinds of interactions.
Guess you have a point, wasted too much time on that game.
3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? You can't accidentally attack and kill the lowbies.
I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.
2 - What??? There are lowbies at the location. Let's say they are "running it". Let's say they are Invisible, so rival players aren't aware of them.
3 - I don't understand the "Corruption Bomb". How does the "Corruption Bomb" work?
4 - The invisible lowbies show up mid fight and... do what? If they are invisble they cannot be attacked by the rival players. You have to willfully target individual players in order to flag against them for PvP. You cannot accidentally target a player and flag against them.
Once the lowbies reveal themselves, their levels and gear can be checked to see if they are worth the risk of attacking. But if the lowbies are not attacking, they can be ignored.
Again --- you don't understand the Ashes game design.
3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? You can't accidentally attack and kill the lowbies.
I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.
That can be misinterpreted as you choose to flag and hit people and you should realize not to attack a lowbie by unflagging.
Compared to if you said it is designed so AOE can not hit non combatant targets so there for trying to forcefully lower someone's corruption with a alt would be difficult or not possible.
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
In the Ashes game design, you can't unflag. Especially not during combat.
I told you that you didn't know how PvP flagging works in Ashes. You could have asked for more info or checked the wiki for more info.
But, you decided I was an ass and you knew better than I did.
That's all about your ego.
Comments
You are fighting naked and then you, if you survive, you still have to deal with working off your Corruption and skill and stat dampening. You give the looted mats to the lowbie, but you still have to both survive the trip back to where-ever you are going. You have to survive attacks from other players while traveling as Corrupted.
The lowbie hs to survive attacks from the high tier mobs while traveling.
You don't understand what the Ashes game design is.
The devs have shared what the Ashes game design is.
What we don't know is how well it will be implemented.
But, according to the current game design, your imagined exploits are not possible and would be ineffective if someone tried them.
How "basic PvP flagging has worked in previous MMORPGs is irrelevant. What matters is how Ashes PvP flagging works.
LMAO
I was a game dev for 10 years, so...
I understand game design and game development quite well.
You can convince yourself of anything, but...
You are actually failing miserably at being convincing with your imagined exploits.
cool story I've played games and mmorpgs for years, more then you. Took classes for game development worked in it, as well as working tv shows and featured films.
"We" who is we, you sound like you are talking for someone.
All I see from you is short sighted behavior and most likely someone that can't take criticism. Someone raises a concern of a issue and your way of replying is by typing lmao and not actually bringing any facts tot he table but talking like you know development first hand, and talking like its a finished product that isn't still being made imo.
Though its nice to see a proper response for once at the very least besides being full of unprofessionalism, legit you are bringing the worst out of me.
2. I still missing the point....corrupted player is giving all the mats to the lowbie meaning they having nothing to lose as far as mats are concerned. If the lowbie doesn't lose anything when dying to mobs with what you stated before, it would mean even if they die which would be the fastest way, you could quickly return to town and bank the mats.
Corrupted player of course wants to survive, but if the goal is getting lots of mats then working the corruption off they are able to play white lowering the risk of loss of mats at the very least, and the substitute gear they have equipped being dropped potentially worst case scenario
I'm just going to end it here, the point of bringing this up is it doesn't matter the chance of how often then could happen but competitive players will use whatever means possible and all cases should be brought up. In order to make sure systems in game help prevent the use of characters like this in not a normal situations do to how strong the corruption system is.
Instead of being an ass and trying to dismiss things even if you don't think its important other people will have concern with it based on their own experience with PvP. Just be reasonable and say why you think it won't happen as well as ways that could help to avoid potential issues.
You bring the worst out of yourself.
I am not missing the point. That is an irrelevant point.
(Only Corrupted drop gear. Players who are not Corrupted only drop a portion of resources and mats. So, the lowbie might drop those prized, coveted mats if they die from a high tier mob.)
Who says that they will be able to get lots of mats from trying to kill people while they're wearing subpar gear?
They can risk that, sure. Just because they risk it, does not mean they will succeed. That's not an exploit.
That's the risk v reward that is a core objective of the Ashes game design.
You can bring it up.
That's already been covered in the current game design.
Informing you that that's already been covered in the current game design is not me being an ass.
Your experience with PvP in other games is not as important as how PvP flagging is designed to work in Ashes.
Reasonable - I think you don't know the meaning of that word.
I'm saying your who demeaner is just rude really. The way you have been responding in general.
Who says they can't kill someone without using their best gear, it doens't matter if the lowbie makes it back to town by walking. They can die not lose any drops and get sent back tot he safe spot id assume is close to town. (if not they simply keep trying and if for some reason its impossible they wait for their friend to take them back).
Guess i should continue to expect your rudeness. Again its not irrelevant its a valid point to bring up as it reduces the risk. Ashes is designed as a risk vrs reward system you should understand that at least.
If tis been covered in the design then im bringing a valid point don't say what is ay is irreverent its rude. There are 100 ways you can go about it, first off you can share information being like I agree with you and they already have a plan or stuff like this.
Instead you are to busy trying to say my views don't match steven's and right now you are saying " that's already been covered in the current game design " so clearly my view isn't that far off in seeing certain issues that pop up.....
That is the pot calling the kettle black.
Whether or not PKers can kill someone while not wearing their best gear is part of the rsik v reward that is a pillar of the Ashes game design. That is not an exploit.
It matters if the lowbie doesn't make it back to safety with the high tier mats they are muling.
If they die, they won't lose gear. If they die, they will drop resources and mats.
Again, the point here is that you don't understand the Ashes game design.
But, for some reason you fly off the handle when I explain to you what the Ashes game design is.
People can continue the risk v reward loop as often as they like.
That is a key aspect of the Ashes game design. That's not an exploit.
Um. I did share the info with you.
Let's review the replies...
Mag7spy: The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
Dygz: It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.
I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.
Mag7spy: You don't understand the mind set of a pvp player.....Simply trying to defend everything because you think it affects PvE is not good. That is why you need to step away from PvE bias, pve bias in a PvX game does not work in understanding design exploits.
Im saying its 90% for pvpers to exploit for their own benefit with bringing a low level to use for themselves with their group.....
Dygz:
The mindset of a PvP player is irrelevant.
You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
Who was rude to whom first?
You poked at me first. And when I returned the poke, you couldn't take the shit you dished out.
I don't have to "understand the mindset of a PvP player".
Just because a PvPer has the mindset to try an "exploit" does not mean the "exploit" can succeed.
Steven is a PvP player who now is a game designer.
And he only hires devs who have worked on other MMORPGs. Many of the from SOE/Daybreak.
The devs are the ones who truly need to understand the minds of PvP players and design with that in mind.
They have. I tried to explain that to you. And you took offense simply because I told you that what you think is an exploit is not an exploit in the Ashes game design. And some of your exploit concepts aren't even possible due to how the Ashes PvP-flagging mechanic is designed.
It's OK for you to think I'm rude. I am nice, but not polite.
Nice is different than good.
But...in this case, I just mirrored your tone back at you...and you couldn't handle what you dished out.
My point had nothing to do how often PvP can be avoided, that was you with ego not listening to what was being said.
Again its about reducing risk by tossing your gear to someone else while corrupted, a low level being the best deterrent to either corruption bomb and hold the mats you stole off killing someone else.
Me saying I have a better understanding of PvP and pve is poking you... after you were there laughing pretty much saying I don't understand pve threats when clearly I do...
Who's mindset is relevant then Dygz? tests for 350+ people at seige and plans for up to 10,000 player's to exist on each server, this is a game leaning towards conflict and co-operation.
"Because, I do truly believe based on the metrics that we're looking at, that this will be one of the largest and most successful MMOs.” are these the words of someone looking to alienate people who enjoy competitive elements in their games?
"Who said Ashe's is going to be competitive", have an actual arguement to go with that??
Firstly, why would a game be designed so poorly that there would be a need for a lvl 1 to exist with a very level player and if exp penalities for that scenerio don't exist then it's not an exploit but just as bad, it's a super easy avenue for the dedicated/no life playerbase to lvl alts or hardcore allies who started late.
You claim to be a dev but honestly, all you a a handful of other people on these forums stand for is having a 0-100% "fun" completition state with zero regard for players who are playing this game a lot or non stop, their influences on the world will have a massive effect on casual/average consumers.
...and this zero regard for player influence on a game ruled by economy/objectives(nodes etc)/guilds must stem from the possibility that you've never experienced living in a game with these conditions, unlike players who have ploughed hours into the likes of Lineage 2 and Archeage.
...and this highlights your inexperience massively, "solving" 1 scenerio while leaving the hardcore playerbase to absolutely plunder and dominate masses of gold from the game's economy.
Yes, I'm sure it's not going to be fleshed out a lot more, "just part of the game lads! make a crafter when you've got spare time and start crafting!".
I implore the intent, unfortunetly until it's fleshed out and we get more info, it's nothing more than a pseudo improvement to the game that bends economy and purpose in the wrong way.
I would say you both have a good point here. However, I am more concerned that competitive guilds will dominate the economy because individual crafters cannot compete with guild crafting alts. I presume this is what NishUK is after as well.
It sure makes things easier when all recipes and resources inside a guild will be centralized to certain refining and crafting alts. This makes things much more efficient and guild gets access to end-gear faster and this way dominate markets.
This is a system which not all players like because they want to do professions on high level as well. Typically this kind of system favors core members of competitive guilds because their alts are chosen to these task, obviously.
Therefore, are we okay with that fact the best master crafters in servers will be alts like that and not individual players who have used multiple times more effort and yet still not be as good? I am also interested what is developers thoughts about this matter. Are they fine with this or will there be restrictive systems which at least slows down the inevitable.
However, what I will say is that your seeming understanding of what content I am talking about is well off. The people I am talking about would indeed expect many quests(among other things), and perhaps even flashy quests (though I wouldn't know how to quantify this), but they would not be expecting their quest endeavors to be free from PvP.
Yea, well I genuinely believe that more people would be in favor of concentrating strength on their preferred role, as the negative has always been on games that reward a competitive mindset "to be a complete player (easy profit meta), you have to have a crafter, gatherer, alt for farming a lower level boss and whatever else" and that leads to ugly and necessary time sinks.
There's no problem in my mind, for all characters to have, at best, a decent level of crafting, gathering or whatever capability, for there to be a different entertainment avenue besides slugging it with creatures and players.
Specilization is what makes for player content, pride and reward and I would like that to be a priority vision, some alt fed a ton of resources by friends or themselves and easily reaching levels of crafting top end kit is the exact same drivvle every hardcore player knows from past experiences.
If AoC is fun enough I will do "extra ciriculum activities" but no one is going to say this is top level entertainment.
Your ego has you believing that you can write sentences with poor spelling and poor grammar and still be perfectly understood.
But, yeah, you clarified what you meant by the poor sentence you wrote already.
You can do that regardless of the level of the person you toss your gear to.
You can just leave your gear at home and wear your subpar gear.
Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that people will want to bring Master Crafters with them to dungeons and raids to Gather the best loot. Even if those Master Crafters are low level Adventurers which the high level group needs to protect from rival groups who battle for control of the dungeon.
That is not an exploit. It is part of the risk v reward pillar of the Ashes game design.
Corruption Bomb is not a thing that is possible in Ashes as far as I can tell.
You still need to explain what that is supposed to be if it's something different that the tactic I already told you cannot happen in Ashes due the way the Ashes PvP flagging system is designed.
I did not start by laughing at you.
And, no, you did not say - "I have a better understanding of PvP than you."
What you said is, "You don't understand the mind set of a pvp player.....Simply trying to defend everything because you think it affects PvE is not good. That is why you need to step away from PvE bias, pve bias in a PvX game does not work in understanding design exploits."
And I replied to you that my knowledge of the mindset of the PvP player is irrelevant. (The mindset of the PKer attempting these exploits is also irrelevant to the outcome.)
I don't need to know the mindset of the PvP player. I just need to know how the Ashes game design either does not consider your scenario to be an exploit - when it is even possible to successfully bring a Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter to a high tier area and safely return them home.
But, also, Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter is going to be as rare as the Max Level Adventurer/0 Kills carebear challenge is in other MMORPGs. Most likely you will gain some Adventurer levels from exploration.
So, keeping Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter may only be theoretical. But, to be able to survive in high tier areas, people will be able to defend themselves from the local mobs, which will mean gaining Adventurer levels as well.
So, yes... we can discuss lowbie Adventurer Level/Master Crafter. But, again, that is already factored into Steven's risk v reward design goal:
The tactic of not wearing your best gear when you want to PK for high tier mats is part of expected and fair risk v reward gameplay. That is not an exploit.
The tactic of giving high tier mats to a lowbie character so that PKers choose not to PK them is also expected and fair risk v reward gameplay because the lowbies still have to avoid being killed by the high tier mobs as they try to return to safety. That is not an exploit. You get to risk that for thr rewards if you want to.
(If the lowbie is killed, they will drop resources and mats.)
TL;DR
I don't have to know how the PvP mindeset works.
I just need to know what the Ashes game design is.
Steven and Jeffrey already know how the PvP mindset works and factored your scenarios into the game design already.
Whether or not I understand the mindset of the PvP player is irrelevant. (The mindset of the PKer attempting these exploits is also irrelevant to the outcome.)
Steven and Jeffrey understand the mindsets of PvP players and have already factored it into the game design.
I just need to know that:
1: The scenario of PKing while in subpar gear is already factored in as acceptable risk v reward gameplay.
2: Same for the scenario of handing high tier mats to lowbie "mules".
Those aren't considered to be exploits.
I didn't say anything about alienating people who enjoy competitive elements in games.
What I said is similar to my response when people claim that Ashes is a PvP game:
Who says Ashes is a PvP game? Ashes is a PvX game; not a PvP game.
Who said anything about need?
When asked if it is possible to 100% avoid PvP in Ashes - both Steven and Jeffrey said they don't want to guarantee 100%, but, for the most part, yes, Crafters could do that.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "very level player". Is that supposed to be "very high level player"?
I think what you mean is: Why would a max level Adventurer want to adventure in a high tier area with a Level 1 Adventurer?
The devs want there to be mixes of levels and playstyles in all areas.
Max level Adventurers will want to bring along max level Gatherers in order to acquire the best loot.
If you want to risk bringing a low level Adventurer/Master Gatherer with you because they can get you the very
best resources and mats - you can risk that if you wish. It's not an exploit.
I don't know what you mean by - "if exp penalties for that scenario don't exist".
How has it been determined that it's super easy to create a Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter?
How has it been determined that it's super easy to keep a Level 1 Adventurer/Master Crafter alive in high tier areas?
Ashes has a Mentor feature. Seems like an "easy avenue for the dedicated/no life playerbase to level allies who started late."
Most gear is not BoP or BoE, so we can already twink alts and allies fairly easily.
I don't understand what you think is an issue.
I have no clue why you mention that. Has nothing to do with anything I've said, as far as I know.
What makes you think I have zero regard for player influence?
Steven has ploughed through hours into the likes of Lineage 2 and ArcheAge.
He's the primary game designer and is supported by a team of veteran MMORPG designers.
I don't know anything about Karma, either.
But, I understand the description of Corruption...and I can trust that it's reasonable enough that Steven and his team of devs believe it's a viable design.
We will test it to see how successful the designs work when implemented in the game.
Well, yeah, I give no fucks about player economy.
I am a socialist; not a capitalist.
Hardcore players can try to plunder and dominate masses of gold from the game's economy.
Pretty sure I will be sharing the stuff I Craft for free with the people I befriend.
And the game will allow other people to do that if they choose to.
Will also allow people to use alts to help with Crafting.
Steven and Jeffrey somewhere have a quote about how that factors into the Economy, IIRC.
Again, I don't have to understand how hardcore economist mindsets affected the Economy in previous MMORPGs.
I just need to know that Steven and Jeffrey already factored that into the Ashes game design, taking into account Steven's experiences in Lineage 2 and ArcheAge, as well as many other RPGs.
The only way a lowbie could "karma bomb" someone is if they'll be able to wear high lvl gear w/o any penalties (slow movement and such) and if the "power stat" icon on players have 0 indication of how high a player's lvl is (I sure as fuck hope it at least hints at it).
But even then, the attacker would have to want to go red. And then the gear scaling, in the context of ttk, would have to be so out of whack that a high/top lvl player literally one-shots a lowbie in high lvl gear (because I see no point for them to attack a dude in low lvl gear). And that doesn't fit Intrepid's planned design for ttk.
So karma bombing in Ashes will be almost impossible.
So you are telling me if you have spells that target a location they do nothing against the player? That would raise other issues also including your basic attack not doing any damage.
Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.
And what kind of disadvantage would you be in? If you're flagging on a person - you've made the first hit, unless that person has already flagged against you. And any lowbie won't kill you with just one hit, just as you shouldn't be able to do the same to them, so no disadvantage there either.
And if you're in a mass pvp where everyone is flagged, your aoes will be hitting all the flagged people.
What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?
Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.
Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.
He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.
*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.
Guess you have a point, wasted too much time on that game.
That can be misinterpreted as you choose to flag and hit people and you should realize not to attack a lowbie by unflagging.
Compared to if you said it is designed so AOE can not hit non combatant targets so there for trying to forcefully lower someone's corruption with a alt would be difficult or not possible.
We can move on from this point though.
I told you that you didn't know how PvP flagging works in Ashes. You could have asked for more info or checked the wiki for more info.
But, you decided I was an ass and you knew better than I did.
That's all about your ego.