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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
That's a pretty good idea, i suggested something similar back in page 9
Aren't we all sinners?
I'm not a fan of this.
If you level up a profession, and you gather the materials, you should be able to make the item.
Artificial limits like this are just an unnecessary hindrance.
Nope, its just that the first suggestion(when talking with Dolyem about low level gathering bots/alts) doesn't deal with this very specific situation of a lv 1 crafter alt crafting inside your main freehold without a single risk from its very creation have all the advantage a maximum level crafter can provide.
There simple shoudn't be things like all advantage no risk in a game that has as one of its core designs, Risk vs Reward.
Aren't we all sinners?
Leveling up a crafting class gives you all the benefits of having leveled up a crafting class.
A player can use the characters on their account to mix and match as they see fit.
If they level up a crafting class without combat on that character, they are still at risk of being killed in combat by another character that is the same combat level as them.
That is an appropriate risk. Putting a level 1 character at risk of PvP vs a level 50 character is not an appropriate risk vs reward situation.
The notion of sitting in a freehold is a non-factor in this discussion, as it applies to all characters.
If the material you are trying to gather is in a high level area, its highly unlikely you would be able to gather it without dying. There for you loot would also be dropping on death and not normal to get it in the first place. So having levels being tied to it seems fine to me. This way it also pushes people to rely on other players over trying to do everything themselves even more so.
If I am able to get it, more power to me, right?
The freehold Crafter interaction simple breaks the risk vs reward of the crafter artisan mastery.
It's literally the most important factor of this conversation.
Aren't we all sinners?
Well that’s conjecture. So ok.
Yep, agreed we still need to see this.
Ok… more L2 stuff. 😉
Ok. Idea on enhancement.
Ok, more observations from other games. It’s possible this correlates to Ashes, but 🤷♂️
More observations from other games.
What’s been said is just what’s in the wiki (and various interviews + content creators). On death players will drop a % of gathered certificates. Upon being killed a green will drop 100% more than a purple. Corrupt players may drop gear + certs.
But again, that’s been said for years. We don’t know what that’s going to actually look or feel like. Or how those %s will be adjusted after extensive testing. So, we know very little there.
Cool. But again all anecdotal.
It will be? It might ‘seem like’ L2 in your opinion, but again we don’t know this - it’s just a guess. We have what’s been said.
Totally agree with your opinion on the ‘spooky’ part. I want to point out that the lion’s share of the knowledge you’re rebutting my point about not really knowing what the corruption / combat systems are in Ashes, are just your own experiences and observations from L2 with a BIG assumption that L2 and Ashes are basically the same.
I still don’t think we know much, and won’t until we either see it demoed or test it. I tend to agree with many of your opinions, and you pack a solid amount of detail / good thinking behind them.
But they’re still opinions…. 🤗
So, that level 1 character that doesn't need to go out in the world has no risk of PvP. Cool. If we are looking at things from just the perspective of that character, that is true. You know what else that character can't do? Level up their profession, or craft literally any item.
In order to be able to do that, they need materials.
This means we now need to look at things from the perspective of the account (or player) rather than the character.
In order to get materials to that crafting alt, the player needs to level up their combat class, and as such are subject to PvP and all.
So, the player needs to be subject to PvP in order to feed the crafting alt, and the crafting alt is literally useless without the materials.
So, the PLAYER has just as much risk leveling up that alt characters crafting as they did leveling up their own, and it is only the PLAYER that gets the rewards from that leveled up crafting alt.
While it may be true that the crafting CHARACTER is not at risk, it is equally true that the crafting CHARACTER is not getting any real reward.
Literally the only way you could hold your view is if you think the CHARACTER is where the risk should be, and yet agree that the PLAYER is where the reward is at.
Some real mental gymnastics there, it simply doesn't follow.
And that gets annoying when I know for sure that a veeery similar system works great and PKing doesn't happen all that often. And Steven has already made changes that will decrease the number of PKs even more. So my only logical conclusion from this experience and observation of said changes is that AoC's system will be even more casual friendly than L2's already were.
Now I'm not saying that you're one of the people who says that kind of shit, but it's been a long day/week/4 months for me, so that was just a bit of unneeded venting triggered by an annoying phrase
Don't get it twisted Noaani, the only mental gymnastics here are the ones you are trying to use to disconnect the characters from the player as a whole!
The Player's main character that levels up and goes out there in the world to get the resources needed faces the Risk vs Reward of the owPvP, but the lv 1 crafter on the freehold being fed only has PURE ADVANTAGES and NO DRAWBACKS, the player is simple without risks MULTIPLYING the value of the rewards acquired by the main character breaking the risk vs reward balance.
Aren't we all sinners?
There is the time it took to level up the alts profession.
That multiplying of the value of rewards acquired by the main is the result of that time investment.
All you are arguing for is for an increase in that time. You are not adding any actual risk at all to this situation.
Once again getting it twisted eh? Time ≠ Risk
The processes of leveling the crafting profession multiplies the rewards along the way without risks, you will progress and profit no matter what.
I have no idea how you are still arguing that there is risk in such a balance-breaking situation such as a lvl 1 crafter alt in the freehold and not understanding the risks of the character level journey a crafter would need to get through to reach that reward.
Aren't we all sinners?
All good, man. I hear you on the year that has been a decade; sounds like it's been hard for you too. Based on what I read, I didn't take your response as venting, just trying to provide insight from your observations. I just think it's important for folks not to form their camps on Ashes PvX prematurely, based on a scant amount of actual knowledge.
Personally, I think that Intrepid is going to err on the side of corruption being on the harsher rather than forgiving side of the fence. Meaning that the overall life of greens will be more peaceful than folks are concerned about. That's pure conjecture based on what I've heard over the last few years from Steven.
But we'll see. We'll just need to test the hell out of the system.
This kind of thing doesn't influence the normal player for the most part (it would stop you from making 5 alts and trying to master every craft on all them without further putting effort into each character.).
This is more a counter to guilds and super guilds that go to extreme try hard methods and bring alts to hold gear (this includes trying to find pvp exploits to bypass corruption drops), prevent pvp drop loss etc. Trust me this is something you want, its mainly try hard that will try to abuse such things so they can find ways around and pvp harder. Also something you won't see till much later on in the game life when people get more towards end game.
If we get corruption, it just takes time to get rid of it. If we lose materials, it takes time to replace them. If we get experience debt, it takes time to get rid of it.
Literally anything we risk in an MMORPG can be reduced down to the time it takes to replace it. Leveling a character isn't a risk, it is a time commitment.
There is literally no situation in which it is reasonable to assume that a player can start to level a character, and not actually achieve hitting the level cap if they put enough time in to it.
Thus, this is not a risk, it is simply time.
There literally is no risk in an MMO outside of time. This is a game design fundamental.
A game isn't some sentient being that can "TAKE" something away like time from you by force Noaani...
Yes all those things takes time, but they also take other things that aren't time, like risks, action, knowledge, desire and etc.
Once again Noaani, not only time...
Can the player start to level a character without action?
Without desiring to start to level a character?
There are risks in games Noaani, they are artificial and arbitrary, but they are still risks.
Aren't we all sinners?
If I defeat you in PvP, you don't lose some of your knowledge on the game. Everything that you lose you can regain by simply spending time. What the fuck are you even talking about here?
What is action other than time?
There is nothing at risk in an MMORPG other than time.
If i risk overenchanting a weapon, the risk is to break it, can i put time in to recover it, yes, was the risk time?
Only indirectly and only if i want to recover it, the risk was breaking the weapon, the loss was the weapon, aren't you able to understand something as simple as that?
Actions require time, time itself doesn't requires actions Noaani, Think Noaani, Think!
There is no need to play around with semantics Noaani!
What the hell is this even supposed to mean? You dont RISK time playing a MMORPG you USE your time playing an MMORPG, aren't you able to understand the simple Risk vs Reward core design from ashes?
We are getting so far from the original point i can barely see it anymore.
Aren't we all sinners?
The loss was the weapon, and replacing the weapon requires time.
As I said, everything can be reduced down to time.
The rest of your post here was obviously you not being even remotely serious, and so I feel no need to reply to it at all.
I will take it as advice, i feel it's illogical to keep replying to your posts about this subject after this point.
Was cool while it still made sense tho, i was able to get an interesting question for this Livestream Q&A thread.
Aren't we all sinners?
Why are you writing an agreement as if you disagree with me??
We're going to have a few people at the extremes:
Some people who believe Corruption is too harsh on PvPers.
Some people who believe Ashes should have a "PvE server."
I think most of this discussion is more about explaining what the concept of a "PvE server" even means for Ashes - because PvPers tend to think that means no PvP at all, when what advocates mostly want is to have the non-consensual PvP disabled while keeping the Battlegrounds PvP enabled.
The vast majority of us commenting in this topic know that the devs should not be wasting their time creating and managing a "PvE server" at this point in development (3 years behind the original release date).
We're content to test Alpha 2 before making a judgment call.
You still didn't come up with anything players are risking that isn't able to reduce down to time.
Nor did you give any reason as to why you want profession and combat levels tied other than as a means to increase the time it takes to level up a profession on an alt.
I've been saying the same thing CROW3 wrote this entire time.
So...again...seems like we agree... although you reply to me as if we don't.
What's important is that Corruption is enough of a deterrent that killing a non-combatant is comfortably rare.
The revenge is mostly irrelevant. And the loss of resources/materials is probably irrelevant, too, since it's just the loot that you lose for being killed by a mob.
Yo Dygz, do you happen to have a wiki quote or a video time stamp related to this?
I Haven't found one yet.
Aren't we all sinners?
Progression within artisan classes does not relate to a player's progression in their adventuring class.[9]
In the wiki under artisan classes
Sounds like I can work and level skills in professions and never even leave my node, therefore never kill anything or level up my character.