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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Funny seeing this kind of argument after several people super deep into tab games have told you that they felt that combat in those games felt fluid. You haven't played those games as much as those people, yet you yell about it not being fluid just because you've watched a few videos on them.
I've played them, not watch videos lmao
This is flow, using 3 moves together and they seamlessly flow and chain together without a issue like butter. Not move stop global cooldown move stop global cooldown.
Current information indicates the P2W element will be low, but that's just 'promises to make sure it's fair'.
Other clearer information around it however does indicate there are structures implied where it won't be 'direct' P2W in any real way
So, if a Tab game doesn't have Global Cooldown, is it fine?
Way too over the top, ADHD infused, hack and slash gameplay. Probably would get tired of it after 1h of playing.
I'll take my tab-target games, tyvm.
No but seriously, not all games have long GCDs that prevent you from using one skill after another. Some games allow you to precast abilities, most of them chain one ability after another when you press two abilities one after another... You are generalizing a lot.
Combos are possible in tab-targeting games as well just fyi.
If tab doesn't have global cooldown it break because its designed differently. Action combat is more about the movements being the timeframe between your next attack, and then being able to use other skills that flow or cancel it so you aren't able to spam everything instantly.
In theory if you removed cooldown bars and the character has to do a full animation and you could use your next skill after and there was no global cooldowns perhaps that would be a start for tab target. Where you could be like this game does have a flow to actually talk about with it. Some traits AA did have I believe when you transformed into the demon form as that felt a bit more hybrid to me though still more on tab target side.
So short form no global cooldown would be a step in the right direction in having that kind of discussion if it has good flow to it.
So... 'Tab Games without GCD are broken by design'?
Hm... no, you clarified... 'If you have to do a full animation'...
I'm just learning new things here, I didn't really play a lot of those 'You hit the button and your stuff works regardless of anything else with no animation requirement' games.
Thanks for that.
That is not hack and slash that is just combat with flow to it. It is simply a person using 3 skills that mesh together well and you can feel the weight, speed and power of the moves. Compared to the rift video where the person is using like 3 moves but they pretty much feel like the same thing.
I'm well aware of some skills can be used off global cooldown, that is in a lot of mmorpgs where you get some counter skills and such, but that isn't really flow. If I use a skill, and then I have a counter move i can do, and my global cooldown skill is back up. I can press both keys quickly and do both attacks pretty much instantly.
I know when BDO feels clunky is when you are on a new class or new to the game and don't know what to do as inputs are pretty important. Things you see in bdo are not as hard as you might think tod oit on a more basic level and have a bit of flow when you are doing pve. Though pvp is on the more extreme side of hard as you have to worry about a lot of mechs to be efficient else someone can farm you.
But see here's the issue, to me in that BDO video it also looks like 3 moves that feel like the same thing. In Rift it's 3 simple projectiles vs 3 large overly flashy AoEs in BDO.
Also the character is lvl 15 in that Rift video, so it's not a great representation of the combat.
It seems like you are though, as you keep replying to every comment.
Uhm... no. The GCD can be completely decoupled from the tab v. action debate. At some point it's ok just to prefer action over tab and let it go instead of overstating non-facts to help you 'win.' Not every opinion needs to be a supreme court case.
The three piece combo did not look like the same move over and over did you watch the video? Dark froward attack, circular attack and into a heavy jump slam attack. All with their own mix of motions.... Lets try another video lvl 30 and his moves don't feel different they feel all kind of the same. Movement helps a lot in making more of a impact on the feeling of your skills and flow of combat and not something that is normal to tab target.
If i hear someone say something i feel is wrong like action can't do larger scale tab ya ill reply that is just how I am. You are missing the point though, they see the thread is up here and plenty of people could easily say if they dont like he direction and want it to be more tab focused and could voice their thoughts here as well. But its the same 5-10 people that prefer action, tab or both with a argument.
You generalizing all tab games is the same as me looking at NW's combat and saying "holy fuck all action games are trash and boring and limited".
You can see a lot of times when i post a video reference it has been to EQ2. I played shadowbane over L2.
"I have played bad tab target MMOs and I don't want Ashes to be like that."
"That's great, I have played good tab target MMOs and I don't want Ashes to be like the bad ones either."
Have you tried 'assuming that the people who like Tab Target ones have played the good ones'?
Not saying it's definitely true, but it might help to have productive discussion if you start there instead.
Our Discourse is built on a foundation of LIES. LIES I SAY!
Seriously, please stop.
I came from over 10 years of a tab game and the first thing I hated in another tab game (that allegedly has amazing and fluid combat, according to a ton of people on the internet) was the god damn gcd.
Your generalization of all tab games only puts you into a bad spot in these arguments.
How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs.
I don't consider the mmorpgs i played bad, unless they were some kr mmorpg knock off during that time like flyff.
How about this? What Action Combat games don't have ability spam? To me in Action Ability spam is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then that would be part of the normal kind of Action Combat MMORPGS.
You seem to have not played those games either, yet you base your whole argument on completely different games you've played. This doesn't only show a very narrow-minded outlook on things, but, imo, shows disrespect to other people's experiences. By you saying "all tab games are literally same shit and are never fluid", you're literally telling Noaani that his years of playing the game were worthless and he should've been playing smth else. Obviously I'm sure that Noaani doesn't think that because, to me it seems, he has enough self-respect and confidence to not get hurt by someone else's opinion, but the underlying attitude of the discussion remains the same. You bring other people's experiences down just because you think that your opinion is the only valid one.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Rift has amazing combat, but showing low lvl gameplay isn't helping it either. And again, it's a game that's been released over 10 years ago. Though Rift has an amazing class system that's simply superior to most games, especially BDO.
Rift and many tab-targeting games of that era look dated and overly simplistic in terms of combat, but on the other side you have BDO where there's simply way too much going on on the screen, way too flashy, dashy and slashy. Again, a nice balance between the 2 is the best.
In both games I've had better experience than in BDO. GW2 is kinda in that upper limit when it comes to how "action-combaty" I want the game to be. That isn't to say those games have no issues, GW2 especially lacks weight and feedback on abilities, and it can often feel floaty. Then it has problems with "stacking" and perma boon uptimes which just ruin the endgame raiding for me. But combat in itself is a great mix of both, and it's something similar that Ashes is probably going for.
I personally feel that people who have played too many MMOs have generally played a lot of bad MMOs.
Two reasons:
1. Most MMOs are bad.
2. If they had a particularly good MMO to play, since most good MMOs don't die, and don't get stale all that fast, they would have focused their time on that one and not had time to play too many others to the point where they would know if they were good or not.
So, if you've played a lot of MMOs, I should just assume you played a lot of crappy knock-offs that came up in that era.
If in 12 years someone tells me 'I played only Ashes of Creation for the last 8 years so I don't know much about how $Random2022MMO works, sorry', I want to be able to think of that person as as Person Of Culture (TM) and not 'some MMO noob who doesn't have real experience'.
Only Gordon Ramsay goes around eating other people's poorly prepared food on purpose.
Now you are skewing my words by saying I'm saying his time was worthless in a aspect that doesn't make sense as why would you be playing something else during that time of the game. Time frames and context matters.
Its not narrowminded as you can clearly see in the video on EQ that it is stagged gameplay with high gcd. Saying your combat is fluid for the sake of saying it doesn't hold weight, i don't take bias into account i take facts on what is shown and explained. The same way i explained my reasoning for fluid combat with BDO.
Global cooldowns are pretty much turn based combat, and turn based combat is not fluid. Enjoying the combat and likely it, have nothing to do if a combat is fluid or not. I can like swtor combat and say i enjoy the movement with it but being fluid is a different meaning all together. Remember im talking about everquest not L2 so you can't compare your game without global cooldowns that would be a different topic on that games being fluid.
As far as disrespect goes I think that is a silly concept to compare to my comment. He simply said EQ2 was fluid, I disagreed and shared my fact on my thoughts on what makes fluid combat and pointed out reasons why I don't find EQ2 as fluid or a good example among tab target games. I'm not going to bs around I'll get to the point and provide examples, show videos, explain my points and i also installed and jumped on the game to ensure what I was saying was holding up with camera facing and attacking.
Yet you are going to say I'm disrespectful and not even slightly giving the benefit of doubt without actually putting effort in? Now to me this is the first time you actually have been disrespectful. Not to mention i feel liek i have the impression you think i havn't played tab target mmorpgs for more then a shall amount of time like im not speaking from experience. I've played mmorpgs since i was a child i know plenty about them... And i know plenty about modern ones from their bad aspects as I'm very critical of them and their good aspects.