Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Oh, well that's much easier to handle then.
You gave your opinions for some reason and tried to back them up with things you think prove them.
All you need to understand is 'no, the things that you brought as evidence are not proof to anyone else'.
But yeah, even when I was starting out with L2, I tried perfect world, I tried just a bit on aion, a bit of MU online, some BDO later on, some B&S and was thinking of trying AA too - but through all those tryouts L2 was still better for my preferred gameplay. And having tried WoW way later in my gaming career, I'm glad that I didn't waste money on it back when it was limited cause that would've been a huge waste of $15.
Right but even then, I'm not talking about 5-10. I'm talking about 'NebulousNumberThatMagUses' which by the fact that it is not even estimated, must be so high that it can only be referred to as 'lots'.
You don't say "I've done that lots of times!" without either 'trying to bs someone' or 'the number being over 20 and you can't even keep count of it properly'.
And Mag couldn't possibly be trying to BS us, I'm sure there was some post where an actual list was mentioned, and that list was most likely less than half of them, right?
This is more of a comment I can get behind, having played bdo as much as I did I 100% agree there is too much going on at the same time and it be much better combat if it was slowed down and aoes turned down to like 1/3 their size. I was mainly bringing that up comparing the moves chaining together compared to EQ2 and how I felt bdo was fluid where eq2 was not. I don't liek to argue head cannon id rather share videos and examples. And yes BDo had trash customization another weakness of that game.
Its hard to bring up many mmorpgs as most ones that are talked about are dated, and im just going to have to be hard and honest comparing it to the new ones that are out there if the old ones are talked about being a pinnacle of combat being fluid.
I played AA a bit it was cool, didn't play too long on it though as i was just messing around between mmorpgs and wanted to get a sense for it. And this si after me playing bdo and i had fun messing around with it for a bit, it has some good mobility from what I felt for it for it being tab based.
Well anyone can ignore any information and believe what they want to believe humans are compatible of that. Though if you feel your point is strong and someone shows you something you can easily counter and show them something else and have them understand what you mean why something else is better. But when your point is only I said so and you don't want to back it up it just becomes weaker but you are still fully able to believe whatever you want.
Yes, you are correct, to us, that is the type of person you are.
Recognizing it is the first step toward solving it. I am happy for you. Please continue on this line.
This is my basis for saying that you're disrespecting others' opinions.
And as for me not thinking that you've played a ton of games - that is falls. I'm sure you've experienced enough tab games to build an opinion on said games. I'm also sure that quite a few of those might've been poorer copies of their ancestors so they weren't as good as the top quality ones. And if you did in fact play the top quality ones, then I'd be interested in how long you played them. Because, as you said yourself, you only really understand how a game plays after you've played quite a bit of it. And if your answer to this is "I've played enough to understand that I dislike the underlying mechanics/combat" - that'd be completely understandable. That would explain your bias against tab games and would just support your opinion. It wouldn't make that opinion the only correct one, but at least it'll be completely understandable.
I mainly have the exact same opinion. GCD feels like utter shit. I could barely play FF14 because 2.5 fucking seconds of waiting is torture for my adhd brain. But from what I've seen, once you get to top lvl, there's enough skill variety and combat complexity that you're glad that you have that gcd. I might not fully enjoy that, but I wouldn't say that this kind of combat can't be fluid when played properly. If you manage to weave the non-gcd abilities in-between the gcd ones and have a 10+ constantly-casted ability streak - to me that seems fluid. Yes, it's not as flashy as BDO's dashing around and directional attacks, but it has its own fluidity. And if I can say that about the longest gcd in the genre (afaik), I'm sure other tab mmos can have at least a class or two that can feel super fluid.
Sometimes you don't don't for 5+ years each or maybe you come back and play again. I'll give my mmorpg resume one more time. EQ, WoW, Shadowbane, City of heroes ( and villains), rift, age of conan, Swtor, champions online, Elder scrolls online , Neverwinter, guild wars 1+2, Black desert online, New world, Lost Ark. All played to different degrees of time, I have other mmorpgs as well but I don't really include them like AA sincei only had like 50 hours ish.
Seems like a bit of a catch 22 to me.
Given this amount, I can tell you that it is insufficient to convince me that you have played enough MMOs to hold the opinions you hold as strongly as you do.
I'm not saying you're wrong to have those opinions, just that they don't convince me, so with that list, there is no point at which you will say "I played a lot of Tab Target MMOs they are all like X" and I go 'Oh that's fair I agree with your position'.
Strengthen your position by increasing your understanding, and then talking will make more sense. Otherwise I, for one, am forced to ignore you simply because you take up too much time for no benefit to Intrepid.
Yes because the depth of a action mmorpg is different then a tab target mmorpg. The depth of the combat for EQ2 from a actions stand point is not going to change overall that much as i doubt GCD is going to get lifted as the videos did not show that I had linked for late game. If he wants to prove me wrong he can go ahead but he has refused to give any examples for all his arguments from game mechanics to of course the combat I'm sure as well. I don't just believe something cause someone says something, of course i have to be held to the same standard and it is why I give examples on how the game functions (ie GCD) and video reference as well from eq2 as well as a game that has good flow.
The only thing I trust is i'll be given bias, even more so if you didn't take both tab target and a heavy action mmorpg to end game with pvp as well on top of it. If we are talking about tab target games without GCD they do exist but its a different discussion from there because they are not bound by the start then stop (repeat).
Again I've said this before when i played swtor I thought it was sick, though over time perception and experiencing other games can change it and you can see where things can grow and where they are leading.
You appear to be incapable of non-binary thought, so you're gettin' ignored.
The reason I consider it important to tell people when they are getting onto my ignore list is because it apparently has an effect on whether or not I see messages when they quote me or @ me in threads.
As per my usual you can assume that I'll still read any post you make that another person bothers to quote, since that might imply it is important. I hope your capacity to see nuance improves.
This has to be one of the most ignorant post I've seen you say lmao. This is exactly what I mean with bias sometimes it doesn't matter if you show actual videos and the person has played the game they will say something silly like this when at the moment the main discussion is Eq 2 is not smooth ok here are the reasons and videos.
Honestly I can't take you seriously either thought you were a bit more level headed but i was sadly mistaken if you don't understand the weight of this list
Where is wow now compared to its golden age? Time and context matters, currently bdo is known to have the best combat out of any mmo from the feel and the fluidity of it.
Its ok we can both ignore each other you have some weird takes anyway and you feel more personal then actually caring about any information presented and fairly talking about it. Toxic behavior at its finest.
edit: it seems that some of skills trigger smth similar to a gcd, but it's so short and doesn't seem to impact all the skills, that I can't see it being that impactful on the gameplay as a whole at that lvl.
It is doing GCD in a different way, notice how every time he uses a skill there is a bar that goes off akin to cast time. You sometimes have a few skills not affected by it or can be proced and you get more free attacks.
Akin to dnd where you have your main action turn but then soemtimes you get more free actions you can do between.
Also forgot to mentioned i played DnD online, a mmorpg not that many people know about i feel, it was pretty hardcore.
Well, how do you know an MMO is good? you have to play it.
I played my first MMO many years ago, after it started turning to shit I had to jump from MMO to MMO to find a new home, which I didnt.
As a result I played a crapton of MMOs and yes, most of them are bad.
You have animations you can't skip (you can cancel some animations) and have to play the animation. But this is the point, it needs to feel fluid between those animations and that is where the term fluid actually matters else it would feel clunky. Compared to if you were doing like EQ2 for example you use your skill, then your CD comes off and you can use your next skill. They have no reason for any between animations or motions so there is none and no reason to say something is fluid else you are just saying it for the sake of saying it. Fluidly is how does it feel in-between skills and your movement motions like dodge abilities and such that move your character forward. Does that mean tab has completely 0 fluidity no, responsive controls, being able to que your stuff ahead of time is great but that is not what I'm talking about with things feeling fluid. Those would just be things I expect with tab target.
In theory a tab target mmorpg could be clunky and you would want it to be more fluid in movement but again we are far beyond that. At the time you could view at as more fluid but as time passes things change and the genre evolves. What might have been revolutionary in a older mmo, as now been around for ages. Where DnD online might have felt great at the time i'd view that as clunky now compared to more modern hybrid mmorpgs and action ones. So what im getting at is there might have been something big that made people be like this is fluid an amazing, but that changes over time as the benchmark moves up on player expectations.
Hopefully didn't word that too badly in a rush atm.
So pretty much all the things an action game would have in its combat, except for the direct physical dodges. And outside of that single difference, the only way to really understand whether the combat is fluid and responsive is to play it. I could agree with a statement of "a tab game with gcd might feel clunky due to it", but as I see it, animation locking is not a gcd. It serves roughly the same purpose of preventing people from using 10 skills at the same time, but in a non-gcd system you use every skill one after the other as soon as you can, while in a gcd system you have to wait in-between skills, no matter how fast those skills are animated or executed.
Yes, EQ2's overall combat is slower than BDO, but as you said yourself, not even all action games have to be fast. And if your requirement for fluidity is just "you gotta be able to do stuff in-between attacks, mainly dodging" then I'll consider that your opinion on fluidity of combat for any future reference. Though iirc, I think it was Noaani that said that in a perfect play of the class you needed to perfectly interweave plain attacks with your abilities (or maybe it was Azherae talking about ff11, I forget). And while that is not dodging, that sure seems to me like a mid-skilluse activity that you characterize as being fluid.
Correct me if I misunderstood any of your points.
And on the topic of click to move being an old mechanic, doesn't LA have click to move? Maybe not as the main means of traversal, but it's still functional so it hasn't gone away completely. And that shit's an action game
Especially about subjective preferences such as, "I like Action Combat better than Tab Target."
I'm still trying to understand the purpose of the continued discussion when Ashes has both Tab Target and Action Combat.
You haven't seen high end stuff from FFXIV have you?
Half your rotation ends up being non GCD skills that you weave between your GCD skills
Which thank God because the long ass GCD before you get any of those abilities was slow as hell 😆
Most likely because Hybrid is a spectrum that can lean more towards either side, some want it to lean more towards Tab others want it to lean more towards Action, in the end both sides will need to personally test it in A2 to reach a solid understanding to push this conversation further, as the usual tab vs action debate derails due to the lack of knowledge of how A2 combat will be for people to truly start comparing to predecessors.
Aren't we all sinners?
For a start, buffs in EQ2 do trigger the GVD, but the bulk of then are also permanant. Those few buffs that are not permanently are things you would want to VERY specifically time, and you would not be moving back to cast them.
Second, in a decade playing EQ2, I never once waited for the GCD. Just doesnt happen.
Third, you are talking about casters, as I said earlier it is the rogue types that have fluid combat in EQ2, not casters. This is about as smart as me talking about Tera in relation to how slow action combat is, as opposed to BDO - classes in EQ2 have more of a different play feel to them than BDO and Tera have between them.
Fourth, you cant move back while casting in EQ2.
Once again, you literally have no idea about tab target.