Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this but to me, the separation of fights in a big fight is a good thing since it allows you to actually fight in a large fight setting. You still get that feeling of being part of a big battle with all the people around you.
In a swarm vs swarm setting, you die so quickly, especially if you are melee, you can't enjoy the fight.
It’s action combat is pretty impressive, and blends standard attacks with active ability attacks quite smoothly. Puts a lot of action mechanics I’ve played before to shame.
I've been in some pretty large owPvP fights in BDO and there is a lot going on and honestly would e to stressful for most people even I felt meh at times about it mainly do to if you make any mistake you get blown up unless you hugely out gear everyone. Though i''l have not be to hard on bdo since I can over criticize a lot of games. In terms of combat in its most fun element in large fights there is a lot you have to worry about. Between super armor, i frames to counter and cc people. Do combos on players and be mindful of your gaps into cancelling your move into a iframe to break distance and try to see another group. Whiel anther people will jump on you and using your block so you don't get cc'd and died after. It was very sweaty fights beyond the small scale battles. Aoe was a issue you had to be mindful of because no one is really escaping that if you are getting hit by that many players, but its like a fighting game except you have to fight a crap ton of other people as well. Regardless how i feel about bdo there isn't a mmo with a more crazy pvp scene as far as needing to react to second by second actions without a break in large skill fights and your skill being allowing you to either die or do a lot (or maybe your class is bad, or op). I could get into more detail on this but BDO is an extreme level and AoC should avoid a level to that extreme imo. Just because something is ultra fast doesn't mean it makes the best experience (speed in ashes looks to be fast in a very good way though).
And personally disliked that it was just tiny skirmishes within a bigger picture, rather than a huge mass of people weaving back and forth, with someone overextending, someone successfully baiting that overextension right up until either of the sides decides to do a big push. You can see what kind of scale I'm talking about on the previous page.
I only played the first one allll the way back when it first came out. But from what I remember, it was more of a "a group of enemies one at a time" rather than a several people attacking all at once. Well at least that's how I remember it and what I remember of watching some later games' gameplay here and there.
I like the switching between those enemies, but not sure if that kind of thing would be doable in an mmo.
I understand i have strong opinions and its just my experience with tab games. in the multiple games I've played getting to different points in each of them there was no opportunity to really effect what a mob was going to do to you. Its mostly what you reacted to do to the mob and your skills. On a overall average that is how i felt even more so when i already knew the mechs in a fight.
No hate to you of course and bdo I've felt is meh but still feel games can learn some good elements from it. Knowing bdo I don't blame your dislike on it, i had a lot of gear in that game, full pen and i had some pen accessories and the rest being tet. Besides all the other bs with BDO, only looking at combat its a action mmorpg the suffers from a few things. Customization, imbalance, super armor and iframe cycles being too strong and replied upon, insane gameplay speed that is hard to read at times more so with certain classes. Grabs (though they were nerfed)., too giant freaking aoe everywhere.
Though BDO has some good elements like the feel and mobility of characters, how skills link together and doing a combo system in a fun way which is a nice twist on cc. If there was a mmorpg that turned those worst elements on bdo down to a reasonable 5 instead of a 12/10. Gameplay on that game would be reasonable and feel good for a lot of people.
But ya to roll back i think hybrid is the best way, though hybrid that still leans more towards action combat imo.
In any RPG, my Ranger should be able to be designed with higher accuracy than the average player's twitch skill accuracy.
I think NWO solves this with some soft-locking on free aim.
Free aim is more of an FPS feature. BDO-speed combat is also moving into FPS speed rather than RPG speed.
RPG speed should be slow enough that we can react to our group members' tactics and synergize with them
I think with Ashes, one of the ways we will accomplish that will be to color code and size the floating damage numbers such that the abilities we want to synergize with are flagged in peripheral vision.
Combat needs to be slow enough for us to see what people are doing and change our tactics to synergize with theirs, rather than focusing myopically on our own cool-downs and rotations.
Which RPGs with free aim are you referring to, btw?
I hate showing this perceptive cause this guy is a broken wizard but its an example of people being more tightly grouped in a large fight.
Except - keep in mind that Steven says if they can't get the Action Combat to feel good, he will just go with Tab Target.
I think the June 2022 Combat Demo indicates that the devs have found the perfect sweet spot for Action Combat - at least for Fighter.
Daggers did seems to be a tad too fast, but I'd need to see Rogue attacks to get a better feel for that. I did lof the stalking combat stance for Daggers.
Ashes has Hybrid combat. People who don't like Action Combat should be able to create Tab Target builds they like, so...
No need to be bickering about which playstyle is better.
In BDO, I don't feel like I'm actually the class I've chosen. I feel like I'm basically playing 3D Fantasy Mortal Kombat, where I just mash buttons as fast as possible - some VFX happen - and then I probably win in PvE.
There's no time to look over to see which abilities my allies are using so I can synergize with them.
It's just a button-mashing rage-fest.
Here's a good example of 9v9 combat. Even though it's in the open space, the fight itself is fairly compact. But even despite that compactness everyone is constantly moving and repositioning, and you had to click on the ground to move, so I'd assume this much movement might be unusual for click-to-move games.
That siege is closer to what I'm used to, mainly because it has a ton of chokepoints that have to be danced around and properly attacked in order to break through to the other side.
I still have to take a look at ranged combat, I guess, if we're talking about aiming.
Stealth kill animations seem not as engaging as KOA: Reckoning.
Ah! Sixth Sense snaps aim to target, so... I'd say that's not completely free aim.
Abilities like that are needed for an RPG. Yes.
Aiming can be either soft target (standard reticle aiming) or a target lock (similar to a tab target).
Archery is good as an opener, or if you’re in a hidden or elevated position. Rooftops are especially good with a bow as you can use kicks to knock folks from ledges and gain a few more shots. Once you’re engaged in an even fight though, the combat is too fast-paced to get a meaningful bow attack.
Switching between swords and spears is incredibly realistic, they animated pole combat very well so you are dangerous from greater distance. The two weapon styles balance each other well, particularly when fighting 5-7 Athenians on a pitching ship deck.
I don’t like that I can’t use a shield, but I’m playing Valhalla next where I can.
Soft lock in NWO is sticky aim.
Sixth Sense is a different kind of aim assist, but seems great for an RPG.
Target Lock would also be good, of course.
I mean - I think I would expect to be using bow shots as an opener and then switching to a different weapon.
I have a feeling Assassin's Creed is not a high magic setting.
As I've said many times, with tab target things like this are on the encounter level, not the combat system level. I have played encounters where if you stand still for more than 2 seconds, you wipe the raid.
But yeah, tab target games are not meant for moving... I mean, it isn't normal to be able to do a 180 no scope either, yet people do them.
You keep talking about how tab target takes no skill, and then you keep talking about the skills you don't have that players need to be good at tab target.
It's really weird trying to follow you here. Are you saying tab target games take no skill, or are you saying memorizing your abilities, knowing how long their cooldowns are and being able to internally time them is not a skill?
Because it can't be both. Either doing that is not a skill in which case everyone can do it - or doing that IS a skill, in which case tab target games require a very specific, honed skill that you do not possess. Another untrue statement.
In an action game, when you dodge an attack you move out of it's way. A dodge is essentially an action that you initiate in response to a pending attack (or an assumed pending attack).
In a tab target game (literally every tab target game I have ever played) there are abilities you can use that you activate when there is a pending attack (or assumed pending attack) that makes that attack miss you.
Literally the only inherent difference in these two situations is the fact that a dodge moves you, which is actually a major factor as to why action combat in large scale combat isn't as good as tab - when you have 40 people attacking a mob together, that thing needs to stay fairly still. The rest of your raid can't perform their job if the mob is moving all over the place - and in fact an ability to keep a mob still is one of the hallmarks of a quality tab target tank.
Anyways, back to the abilities. If action has an ability you can activate that makes a pending attack (or an assumed pending attack) miss, and tab target games have abilities that make a pending attack (or an assumed pending attack) miss, why would this be something you would get up on your soap box and yell about?
Unless you count my character’s limitless energy to scale a thousand foot peak in 15 seconds… no, not at all. 🤪
Guild Wars 2 harboured a VERY solid combat system to me, (my opinion) and there is definitely a world where a blend of tab and action compliment each other very well.
The best advice i would give as someone who has no tangible credentials to give said advice. Steven and Team....literally show us a comparion of all the way tab target all the way action and where you blend in the middle to give us players a tangible comparison only then can we give educated feedback.
I mean that was just the basic attacks showoff, all classes will be able to have 75%tab-target skills ,is that enough for you or does it really have to be 100% pure tab?
Because if does, i got some bad news for you.
Aren't we all sinners?
My thought about action combat is that if implemented well, it's a lot of fun. At the end is almost the same as the tab combat, with just more focus on how you move and where you hit.
Here's what tab target fight is like: target enemy, move next to it, press ability buttons, it's your numbers versus the enemy's numbers, and the enemy dies eventually, and you move with the enemy to keep in range.
Here's what action combat SHOULD be like: swing lightly WHILE sidestepping to the left to avoid another monster's projectile, your swing provoking a dodge response, which you follow up with a quick distance closer (or just a big step in) with a heavy swing, because you know this one will land, because you tricked enemy into dodging early. Instead enemy uses his block ability to avoid this heavy attack, ruins your plan, and now you are on the defensive - you hop back, hop sideways and parry attacks from now-chasing-you enemy. You do fast counter-attacks trying to make enemy back off in between parries, or use abilities that do an attack while moving you in a certain direction. Once you disengage from enemy's melee range because you went left and he thought you'd go back, you can start to attack again. Numbers here should play a LESSER role in determining outcome than in a tab-target system.
If you have encountered bad action combat systems, you will basically get worst of both worlds. Movement stuck in attack animations, no attacks actually cause you to move, and when you attack it only looks like you are in an action combat but actually its just numbers against enemy's numbers who doesn't try to dodge or parry or block like a target dummy.
From the demo i saw posted recently i'm afraid it looks like diablo - nothing different from just clicking an enemy to attack them, then using an ability that does a certain aoe in front. Nothing different from if this was a tab target game. Stats on stats. Chop them up. Slice and dice until enemy crumbles.
Your definatly not the only one.
Ive posted alot about it aswell but i usually only get rude replies so yea..
Noaani is another one.
I would say action combat has even worse rotation.
Just look at New World.
Its all about spamming left mousebutton and 3 skills. XD
I dont want to spam mousebutton all day while strafing and bunnyjumping around my enemies.
I rather have tab targeted auto attacks and 10-15 skills and more stationary combat.
MMORPGS with action combat vs tab target that has been succesful are VASTLY towards tab tageting side for a reason.
Players in action combat mmorpgs leaves in droves very quickly when they notice they cant keep up due to playerskill inbalance.
The differance between a skilled player in action combat mmorpgs towards a "normal" player is HUGE compared to a skilled/normal player in a tab target game.
Players THINK they want one thing becouse they liked in in a single player game, or a totally different genre, but when they actually try it, they dont like it, quit, and rejoin their old proven tab target game.
Ive seen it in 20+ mmorpgs.
Ive seen the same discussions in Alpha/Beta forums since EQ.
Unfortunally the players that wants all those systems are VERY vocal on forums, while the vast majority are NOT on these forums, and hardly watch any information about the game.
Most here are player around 20 that has played way to few mmorpgs, and very obscure mmorpgs at that.
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I would not be opposed to an aim lock system, that is basically what I want anyway.