Vissox wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ For starters, i'm pretty sure we could find some tab games that have combat you think is bad. Just because a game uses tab doesn't mean it will bring whatever combat elements from a previous tab game that you enjoyed. Only thing tab effects is if you have to aim. If you don't like to aim, then cool but don't assume the inclusion of tab means that other aspects of combat would change because of it. The pax demo was tab and there weren't rotations. It was a lot of auto attack spam. There is nothing on a tab ability you couldn't add to a free aim ability. In a system that uses free aim, you are just layering aiming on top which can further be augmented with things like hit scan, projectile speed, and size. I run into a lot in these conversations where people are asking for tab but when asked, they are more against other elements of combat that the have experience in action games. If there is another aspect of combat you are looking for then please argue for that. Can it not be as simple as I don't like missed damage? You said yourself that there is no difference? Are we playing an RPG or a shooter? We cannot dismiss the way it feels to play, because that is the part that actually matters.
mcstackerson wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ For starters, i'm pretty sure we could find some tab games that have combat you think is bad. Just because a game uses tab doesn't mean it will bring whatever combat elements from a previous tab game that you enjoyed. Only thing tab effects is if you have to aim. If you don't like to aim, then cool but don't assume the inclusion of tab means that other aspects of combat would change because of it. The pax demo was tab and there weren't rotations. It was a lot of auto attack spam. There is nothing on a tab ability you couldn't add to a free aim ability. In a system that uses free aim, you are just layering aiming on top which can further be augmented with things like hit scan, projectile speed, and size. I run into a lot in these conversations where people are asking for tab but when asked, they are more against other elements of combat that the have experience in action games. If there is another aspect of combat you are looking for then please argue for that.
Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/
sb1285n wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already. I agree. At the end of the day the game, for me, is more than just combat and if they pivoted to tab target only I'd still give it a shot. I love FFXIV despite the combat. Vissox wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong. Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction. I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'. So did your eyes glaze over the part where I talked about animation locks, missed damage, and button spam? I think you're still missing the point. So when I say you don't understand how the game doesn't feels flawed I'm an emotionally charged jerk, but when I bring up my points and you disagree it's just fine? No, I'm saying that even in that post you were unnecessarily rude. "Did your eyes glaze over". You make it hard for anyone to even begin to see your point of view. The only people that are going to agree are people who already think the way you do and even then some may be put off by your attitude. I'm just trying to help you out. It took me a long time to figure that out.
Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already. I agree. At the end of the day the game, for me, is more than just combat and if they pivoted to tab target only I'd still give it a shot. I love FFXIV despite the combat. Vissox wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong. Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction. I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'. So did your eyes glaze over the part where I talked about animation locks, missed damage, and button spam? I think you're still missing the point. So when I say you don't understand how the game doesn't feels flawed I'm an emotionally charged jerk, but when I bring up my points and you disagree it's just fine?
sb1285n wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already. I agree. At the end of the day the game, for me, is more than just combat and if they pivoted to tab target only I'd still give it a shot. I love FFXIV despite the combat. Vissox wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong. Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction. I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'. So did your eyes glaze over the part where I talked about animation locks, missed damage, and button spam? I think you're still missing the point.
NiKr wrote: » I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already.
Vissox wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong. Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction. I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'. So did your eyes glaze over the part where I talked about animation locks, missed damage, and button spam?
Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong. Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction. I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'.
Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong.
sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point.
Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.
Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already. I agree. At the end of the day the game, for me, is more than just combat and if they pivoted to tab target only I'd still give it a shot. I love FFXIV despite the combat. Vissox wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vissox wrote: » I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/ You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time. Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'. The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong. Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction. I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'. So did your eyes glaze over the part where I talked about animation locks, missed damage, and button spam? I think you're still missing the point. So when I say you don't understand how the game doesn't feels flawed I'm an emotionally charged jerk, but when I bring up my points and you disagree it's just fine? No, I'm saying that even in that post you were unnecessarily rude. "Did your eyes glaze over". You make it hard for anyone to even begin to see your point of view. The only people that are going to agree are people who already think the way you do and even then some may be put off by your attitude. I'm just trying to help you out. It took me a long time to figure that out. "Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought" I'm giving the same energy that's being given. And I'll be honest, I stopped considering feelings about 10 minutes ago when you started being passive aggressive. I can play the who cares game too, I'm good at it. And I'm 20 times more petty than you I promise.
mcstackerson wrote: » I'm not trying to dismiss what you are saying, i've just seen you mention other things beside the aiming aspect which has nothing to do with this conversation. If you don't like aiming than cool. If you look at rpgs outside of the MMO space, you will see a lot that you systems where you have to aim. I don't think the presence of aiming turns the game into COD.
sb1285n wrote: » Tyranthraxus wrote: » Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content. What about it makes you think it doesn't have a place? That's quite a statement to make. I may prefer action combat, but I can see why people enjoy tab targeting games.
Tyranthraxus wrote: » Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content.
Liniker wrote: » combat looks great, glad they moved away from tab based hybrid
Tyranthraxus wrote: » Liniker wrote: » combat looks great, glad they moved away from tab based hybrid What makes you think this? Did I miss a part where Steven said this? I thought he stated up-front they are still going for hybrid.
TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » Like what other's said. I truly dislike tab/tap target or whatever you say, it belongs in mobile games and it's outdated. I don't think there is any skill in that as this is a PvP focused game. I want to be able to dodge a fireball coming against me, it forces me to make good decisions with timing of my skills.
Vissox wrote: » TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » Like what other's said. I truly dislike tab/tap target or whatever you say, it belongs in mobile games and it's outdated. I don't think there is any skill in that as this is a PvP focused game. I want to be able to dodge a fireball coming against me, it forces me to make good decisions with timing of my skills. This is why tab target games have defensive ability's that you have to time with incoming burst, and I would definitely argue that its a thousand times cooler to press a defensive CD like shield wall than to simply move to the right and wiff an entire ability. And ask yourself which is more interactive? In one scenario your opponent feels like they just wasted their time even trying to hit you, whereas in another you can say "oh nice I burned his CD, now I feel like I've progressed to winning this fight." Dodging is uninteractive, people become theoretically unkillable if they play right, it becomes un fun.
TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » Tab targeting is outdated and i'm happy Intrepid is not implementing that at all by the looks of today's dev update.
NiKr wrote: » TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » Tab targeting is outdated and i'm happy Intrepid is not implementing that at all by the looks of today's dev update. Nowhere have they said that they're moving away from the tab part of their hybrid combat system.
TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » "by the looks of today's dev update"
Vissox wrote: » sb1285n wrote: » Tyranthraxus wrote: » Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content. What about it makes you think it doesn't have a place? That's quite a statement to make. I may prefer action combat, but I can see why people enjoy tab targeting games. It takes the focus away from the rpg aspects. The more people dodge the less gear matters, it will become more about stacking stamina and sponging forever while trying to keep perfect tracking on someone. and it makes stuns even MORE broken in a pvp setting. Long boss fight? Get ready to press the 1 key 900 times.
