Animation canceling, Dodging, weaving

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I wouldn't worry in this case. It doesn't take hundreds of hours to understand BDO. Getting to high level, and understanding how your class both works and feels takes only a few hours. Certainly less than a weekend. The rest of those hours are perfecting your execution, timing, and reactions. Will you be able to fight everything day 1? Not a chance. But understanding your class and general gameplay is a rather achievable goal.

SunScript

Dygz wrote: »

I am decent with BDO combat.
It doesn't feel clunky.
It's great for BDO... hack & slash.
It's not good for an MMORPG.

Rae please just make that post. I'd rather see a wall of text that presents actual data with some aim at being educational than see these two arguing by passing vague misinformation between each other. It's not helping them OR other readers.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

I am decent with BDO combat.
It doesn't feel clunky.
It's great for BDO... hack & slash.
It's not good for an MMORPG.

Decent and being good at pvp are two vastly different things. If i played bdo and only killed mobs I wouldn't ever view myself as decent as you don't need much knowledge to tthrow some aoes around on them.

I don't view people picking up bdo and being able to be good at it over a weekend when they have never played it before. When I'm in the battle arena I'm int here for hours and and same with some of my other guiildies testing new moves and trickers they have learned.

This is getting kind of far from the original comment though, BDO isn't mindless hack and slash combat, again anyone who played pvp would know that. Like any mmorpg you have your skill rotations you do just in bdo you have to adapt to a lot more do to the speed of the combat. If you have only done pve you can say its mindless hack and slash and not something that pushes you to be well enough with all the mechanics of that combat.

Dygz

SunScript wrote: »

Rae please just make that post. I'd rather see a wall of text that presents actual data with some aim at being educational than see these two arguing by passing vague misinformation between each other. It's not helping them OR other readers.

It's not really much of an argument, though.
It's certainly a difference of perspective.

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

This is getting kind of far from the original comment though, BDO isn't mindless hack and slash combat, again anyone who played pvp would know that. Like any mmorpg you have your skill rotations you do just in bdo you have to adapt to a lot more do to the speed of the combat. If you have only done pve you can say its mindless hack and slash and not something that pushes you to be well enough with all the mechanics of that combat.

https://portforward.com/hack-and-slash/
In a hack-and-slash style of game you spend most of the time just killing wave after wave of creatures. They are strongly emphasize combat over anything else. Hack-and-slash style games are usually also considered action games.
B:
Black Desert Online

https://www.pcgamebenchmark.com/pc-games-published-by-kakao-games-europe-b-v
Black Desert Online:
RPG Fantasy Character Customization Female Protagonist Violent MMORPG Hack and Slash Fishing PvE Action Massively Multiplayer Simulation Strategy PvP Sandbox Co-op Adventure Third Person Multiplayer Open World

https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=7327&_opinionNo=42352
(BDO is by far not a Sandbox MMO neither is ESO. BDO also isn't a Themepark MMO. BDO is a hack n slash MMO with open world elements.)

https://cheapdigitaldownload.com/15-best-hack-and-slash-games-compare-prices-e-2020/
5: BDO

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/BlackDesertOnline
Black Desert Online provides examples of:
Hack and Slash: The combat system. PvE gameplay generally consists of taking on dozens of enemies at once and obliterating them with flashy, elaborate combos. Think Dynasty Warriors with a more complex moveset.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/5zbo82/thesis_bdos_pve_is_hack_n_slash_not_action/
(General consensus seems to be that BDO is an Action oriented game (separated from tab targeting), belonging to a sub genre that can be defined to hack n' slash.)

https://steamcommunity.com/app/582660/discussions/0/1456202492174582639/
(What's the combat like?
Is it action/hack n slash style combat such as in games like Devil may cry or is it click and wait combat like in WOW (I call it click and wait i have no idea what it's usually called)?
If it's hack n slash i'll probably get this game today.)

(I'd say it's more similar to Devil May Cry, it's very active and nothing like WoW. I hear a lot of people compare it to Mortal Kombat, but i've never played so I can't say for sure.)
Dygz: 3D Mortal Kombat is exactly what I said before ever seeing the quote above.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DevilMayCry/comments/jnytv3/dmc_is_the_greatest_hack_n_slash_of_all_time_what/
(Idk about y'all, but I can't think of a single game in the hack n slash genre. That comes even close to DMC and all its glory.)

https://www.thegamer.com/black-desert-online-mistakes-tips/
(Hack and slash enthusiasts and fighting game fans will take comfort here. BDO isn't about committing rotations to memory or watching cooldowns tick (although those are still somewhat important), it's about combos executed in real-time.)

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/453625/hack-and-slash-all-of-them
(It seems hack and slash combat took front row in all mmos, no exceptions !
I knew this, but yesterday I had a revelation of how deep easy combat has become when someone posted a combat video of Black Desert Online. I'm like holy cow !.......Is this the new standard ?.....Mowing every creature in your path is now the fun thing to do ?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ODveSDLSC0
(Black Desert Online LIVE! Sorceress hack n slash run!
Playing Black Desert Online, an MMORPG hack n slash)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X9ePCdJOKI
(#bdo #hacknslash #meilleur
Black Desert Online, le meilleur hack'n'slash ? BDO the best Hack n Slash)

Mag7spy

What is funny is i keep having to repeat myself, all those post talk about pve, hack and slash as in you are mindlessly killing tons of enemies. Its cleary they call it hack and slash because of the non existent pve content and how easy it is to kill mobs. And you are linking a bunch of articles from random game journalist that wouldn't even have gotten into the game to begin with more then a surface level. If you are posting game jurno reviewers as your point instead of explaining it you are being dishonest.

I continue to tell you that is not how PvP works and its very mechanically heavy. If this is the sample you are bringing with you understand what im talking about with the game you simply don't know what im talking about, this post showing me that clearly. You continue to ignore what is actually being said because you dislike pve content when that honestly has nothing to do with the combat as it doesn't require you to have a deep understanding of it.

Anyone can type in some keyword on the internet and have people explain things in a way they want to hear. Challenging content isn't pve if you only talk about pve with BDO you are not playing the game. Like you went out of your way to search for a few post with hardly any comments, video with no views in another language or journalist that don't even play the game really...Where are the creditable post calling it a hack and slash game at the very least.

If you don't understand combat in relation to pvp there is nothing wrong with that but it also means you won't know the depth of the combat or understand what I'm talking about. So you shouldn't have a point saying its a hack and slash game with no rpg elements to it. I don't see customization on character build even on BDO'S level hack and slash games, or even the amount of skills you have. You don't know BDO, what even was your gear score....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjrSYuLP8X8
https://grumpygreen.cricket/bdo-combat/

Dygz

You can repeat yourself as many times as you wish - it's not going to convince the people who disagree with you.
I don't care how PvP works in BDO, so you certainly aren't going to sway me by discussing PvP.
I don't play MMORPGs for the PvP.
I care about how the combat impacts RP and PvE.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

You can repeat yourself as many times as you wish - it's not going to convince the people who disagree with you.
I don't care how PvP works in BDO, so you certainly aren't going to sway me by discussing PvP.
I don't play MMORPGs for the PvP.
I care about how the combat impacts RP and PvE.

What you care about is fine and makes sense why you wouldn't enjoy a mmorpg where the only real content is actually the pvp as that is also how it was sold. But you can not say it is a hack and slash when you aren't doing the real content in the game which is pvp. PvE was never actual content in BDO it was just something you did for grinding, there is no difficulty in it.

So you can't say BDO combat is trash if you didn't do the actual content in the game that uses the combat system being PvP. If you are saying PvE is trash id agree with you, and id agree it doesn't use the full of the combat system in any kind of advanced way. But if you are here to say combat is trash and won't pvp that is my issue, you only can see the actual true depth of the combat from pvp.

Dygz

Pretty sure I have never said that BDO combat is trash.
Quite the opposite.
You are the one who does not pay attention to what others have said - and who cannot accurately reflect back an opposing argument.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

Says you...
That's about it.

And, yeah, BDO is just button-mashing and face-rolling. That much is true.

...... If something is button mashing and face rolling that is bad.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

All mmorpgs inspire each other, there is not really should not inspire as all have good points that they have done well in some form. Which is nothing new as WoW inspired a lot of mmorpgs, some just took a lot rather then a little from it. The feel of BDO combat being a great thing to pull some elements from.

Not really. No.

I comment BDO combat is great you are saying no not really. Based on your thoughts of BDO combat elements being used as inspiration for AoC you always crap on bdo the moment its mentioned which makes me think you are thinking it is trash.

Dygz

I don't always crap on BDO combat.
As is typical - your bias has you not comprehending what people who have opposing views have stated.
You don't have to agree with me, but you should at least be able to accurately reflect my stated pov.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

I don't always crap on BDO comment.
Your bias - which as is typical - has you not comprehending what people who have opposing views have stated.

You realize when people are talking about BDO combat they arent talking about pve content right? And you never have anything good to say, else if comments on AoC having inspiration from BDO combat wouldn't be a bad thing.

Dygz

That is absurd.
You may mean is that when you are talking about BDO combat, you aren't talking about PvE content.
I've told you many times before that BDO combat is great for a hack and slash. It's not good -and is actually detrimental- for an MMORPG.
Just because a combat design is great for one type ofvideo game, does not mean it is great for a different type of video game.

You want to focus on the PvP, but Ashes is not a PvP game. Ashes is a PvX game.
Mor importantly, Ashes is a PvX MMORPG. So, I care about how the combat design will negatively affect RP and PvE - not just whether it feels great to PvPers.

Azherae

Yeah alright if there's any chance it will end this, I'm making the post.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

That is absurd.
You may mean is that when you are talking about BDO combat, you aren't talking about PvE content.
I've told you many times before that BDO combat is great for a hack and slash. It's not good -and is actually detrimental- for an MMORPG.
Just because a combat design is great for one type ofvideo game, does not mean it is great for a different type of video game.

It is not designed for technical mechanics for pve to do that well or be balanced. It could be changed to do that completely well first by not making it so you aren't killing 1000 mobs every like 15 minutes. But this is besides the point.

When we are talking about flow and feel of combat bdo does it the best at high levels, it feels good and plays well and that is a bonus to any mmorpg. Yes it works for killing mobs but the main technical aspects you only see in a proper pvp fight with both people having knowledge of the game.

Your perception of combat is PvE so there will be a lot of elements in bdo combat you will not know about as pve doesn't push or require you to use certain things. If you haven't played and understood the combat on a high level involving pvp why can you not admit there could be things people see that you do not?

Dygz

It's not.
Doesn't matter how many times you assert your opinion.
You cans say the Earth is flat as many times as you like. I will still disagree with you.

But, you know...
You can always hope that the guy who stated Steven said in Discord voice chat that they've been inspired by BDO combat was truthful. Even though we have no dev quote for that.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

It's not.

You haven't done pvp so you don't know what you are talking about or understand bdo combat. So we can just end it there.

Azherae

It is done. Now hopefully no one else will want to get between you two as much and you can enjoy this 'conversation' until you burn out of ... whatever is going on here.

Have 'fun'.

Dygz

LMAO
(Seems to me that, over a week ago, you told him pretty much what he just said.)

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