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Animation canceling, Dodging, weaving

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    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)

    But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me.
    All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying...

    I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    PvE isn't competitive.

    For you, it isnt.

    But this is only because you need to be good to be around the competitive aspects of.it.

    But go on, say PvE isnt competitive again.
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)

    But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me.
    All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying...

    I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."

    This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but...

    I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it.

    Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is.

    I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright...

    Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    PvE isn't competitive.

    For you, it isnt.

    But this is only because you need to be good to be around the competitive aspects of.it.

    But go on, say PvE isnt competitive again.

    PvE is not competitive not going to say a giant post about it with fighting ai and having guides. Now PvP is competitive.
  • Options
    Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited July 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)

    But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me.
    All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying...

    I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."

    When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction.

    If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc.

    Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game.

    *receipts just in case

    4vplbvmqis4m.png
  • Options
    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)

    But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me.
    All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying...

    I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."

    This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but...

    I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it.

    Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is.

    I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright...

    Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more.

    I have a question for you in regards to this.

    To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time.

    To me, this is a tab target MMO.

    However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens.

    To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game.

    Would you agree with this?
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    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction.

    If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc.

    Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game.

    Oh, so English actually is your second language then? (all the top players in Soul Calibur historically are Japanese or Korean afaik).
    Noaani wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)

    But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me.
    All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying...

    I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."

    This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but...

    I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it.

    Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is.

    I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright...

    Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more.

    I have a question for you in regards to this.

    To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time.

    To me, this is a tab target MMO.

    However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens.

    To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game.

    Would you agree with this?

    This is accurate but just like MMOs differ, fighting games differ, so it depends on which game you play, on average it is entirely correct though.
    Small print leads to large risks.
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    Noaani wrote: »
    Would you agree with this?
    I, as a non-fighting game player, would agree with this cause I see fighting games as more of "know your opponent and try to predict his next moves" thing rather than "mash and pray" one.
  • Options
    JustVine wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction.

    If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc.

    Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game.

    Oh, so English actually is your second language then? (all the top players in Soul Calibur historically are Japanese or Korean afaik).
    Noaani wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)

    But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me.
    All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying...

    I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."

    This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but...

    I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it.

    Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is.

    I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright...

    Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more.

    I have a question for you in regards to this.

    To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time.

    To me, this is a tab target MMO.

    However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens.

    To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game.

    Would you agree with this?

    This is accurate but just like MMOs differ, fighting games differ, so it depends on which game you play, on average it is entirely correct though.

    Are you assuming my race, does that matter?
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    NiKr wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Would you agree with this?
    I, as a non-fighting game player, would agree with this cause I see fighting games as more of "know your opponent and try to predict his next moves" thing rather than "mash and pray" one.

    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Would you agree with this?
    I, as a non-fighting game player, would agree with this cause I see fighting games as more of "know your opponent and try to predict his next moves" thing rather than "mash and pray" one.

    AHAHAHAHAHA DATA AT LAST!

    (posts from here on are moreso for my team than others, please do not make any extrapolation judgements on things I say about Mag7)

    He's a SIEGFRIED!

    He's a LEAP SIEGFRIED!

    This explains LITERALLY EVERYTHING.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    Azherae wrote: »
    He's a LEAP SIEGFRIED!

    This explains LITERALLY EVERYTHING.
    A quick google didn't give me any info on this. Could you give a quick explanation of what it is? Or maybe give a link to somewhere that explains it?
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    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)
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    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Would you agree with this?
    I, as a non-fighting game player, would agree with this cause I see fighting games as more of "know your opponent and try to predict his next moves" thing rather than "mash and pray" one.

    AHAHAHAHAHA DATA AT LAST!

    (posts from here on are moreso for my team than others, please do not make any extrapolation judgements on things I say about Mag7)

    He's a SIEGFRIED!

    He's a LEAP SIEGFRIED!

    This explains LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

    When you don't understand what top 10 in the world means lmao. When your take is so bad on fighting games you are comparing it to tab.
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    This is what happens when you are in a echo chamber.
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    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    It means you don't understand fighting games and you agree on something that is incorrect. You are reaching hard to be comparing tab to fighting game, like there are bad takes then there is just being completely lost.
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    He's a LEAP SIEGFRIED!

    This explains LITERALLY EVERYTHING.
    A quick google didn't give me any info on this. Could you give a quick explanation of what it is? Or maybe give a link to somewhere that explains it?

    As I said, I prefer you don't make the same type of inferences I am making. I prefer that you do not take my words to mean things because this is me 'As a Fighting Gamer' judging someone based on their playstyle in a fighting game.

    It is not a valid or particularly relevant method of judging a person's character, only their combat/arguing style and certain perceptions they have. When I say it explains literally everything I mean some stuff that I'm 'watching' in the way people post that I really doubt you are paying any attention to.

    But you see, the thing about fighting games is that they are like martial arts, they absolutely teach you a lot about people based on how they approach them, which is the 'model' I keep mentioning that I use to predict others.

    Notice how Mag7 just kinda 'powers through' other people's arguments, assuming things and making the same claims repeatedly while ignoring counterpoints? Siegfried is THAT character. The 'I have armor', 'I have a massive sword and big range so I will put the hurt on you eventually', the 'Defense is a matter of strong offense unless I have a big combo and your mistake is obvious (or I feel it is obvious)'.

    In short, if I had been told 'I play Siegfried in SC6' when I first met Mag, I would have known much more about how to engage.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together.

    Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there.
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.

    So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'.

    This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'.

    Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together.

    Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there.

    When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know
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    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.

    So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'.

    This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'.

    Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.

    Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao.
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    edited July 2022
    Azherae wrote: »
    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.
    Just to give you a bit more data. Back when I was playing a lot of Tekken 3 with friends I played Bryan Fury. Dunno if that fits Leap Siegrfried though :)
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    PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together.

    Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there.

    When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know

    Yes... we are assuming things we dont know... because geting clear information from you is proving to be impossible. Idk. Im done here, the guy is hard to talk to, so i dont see why to put forth the effort. You like bdo. Good for you. All the rest of this thread is just talking in circles, and misunderstanding.
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.

    So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'.

    This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'.

    Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.

    Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao.

    You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts...

    You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.

    @NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse.

    I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable.

    You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'.

    Sound famililar?
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    Mag7spy wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together.

    Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there.

    When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know

    Yes... we are assuming things we dont know... because geting clear information from you is proving to be impossible. Idk. Im done here, the guy is hard to talk to, so i dont see why to put forth the effort. You like bdo. Good for you. All the rest of this thread is just talking in circles, and misunderstanding.

    I don't even play BDO anymore, I simply look at good elements in all mmorpgs I've played. Again you are making assumptions. As far as current mmos out now I don't view anything as that good. Its old and out dated, plays bad, p2w, bad gameplay elements.
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    Azherae wrote: »
    Sound famililar?
    Very much so :D
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    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.

    So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'.

    This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'.

    Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.

    Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao.

    You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts...

    You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.

    @NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse.

    I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable.

    You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'.

    Sound famililar?

    Everyone uses froward pressure its how you win, I don't view myself has overpowering their defense just because I have a giant sword. The moves are very telegraph and if they understand my character they leave opening upon using them. Again better players it is more about using your stance to throw them off and create opening in their attack to exploit. Your fast moves on sieg are pretty important where they don't have much range on them, through using them it helps you control the fight and keep forward pressure off you as your sword moves are slower at the cost of range.

    Talim is more so ultimate pressure imo with speed, constant attacks and movement to constantly evade attacks and be elusive to take advantage of openings. Though that is more so my experience in the previous soul calibur where she was my main, didn't play her in this one. Hardly had enough time for one character because of bdo and its time sink and disrespect of my time.
  • Options
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    Nope not straight forward enough
    🙃
  • Options
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.

    So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'.

    This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'.

    Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.

    Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao.

    You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts...

    You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.

    @NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse.

    I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable.

    You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'.

    Sound famililar?

    I'm curious which ones you watched. There are some fights I only play with one hand btw.
  • Options
    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
    So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good :)

    And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs.

    So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'.

    This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'.

    Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.

    Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao.

    You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts...

    You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.

    @NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse.

    I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable.

    You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'.

    Sound famililar?

    Everyone uses froward pressure its how you win, I don't view myself has overpowering their defense just because I have a giant sword. The moves are very telegraph and if they understand my character they leave opening upon using them. Again better players it is more about using your stance to throw them off and create opening in their attack to exploit. Your fast moves on sieg are pretty important where they don't have much range on them, through using them it helps you control the fight and keep forward pressure off you as your sword moves are slower at the cost of range.

    Talim is more so ultimate pressure imo with speed, constant attacks and movement to constantly evade attacks and be elusive to take advantage of openings. Though that is more so my experience in the previous soul calibur where she was my main, didn't play her in this one. Hardly had enough time for one character because of bdo and its time sink and disrespect of my time.

    I promise you that in no way am I trying to diminish or belittle either your style of play or your skill.

    I am only making the point that you have certain biases and perceptions based on that style of play.

    You started with 'everyone uses forward pressure it's how you win', which isn't true, you're just biased to not think about the situations in which someone doesn't need to do it.

    You probably don't need to explain this to me, I am a fighting game analyst, and I've already watched your matches. Again I AM NOT DRAWING ANY NEGATIVE CONCLUSIONS ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SKILLS FROM MY ANALYSIS OF THOSE MATCHES.

    I am simply using the information I have about you as a person to refactor the way I respond to you. But I will tell you one thing. You are just as much 'in my domain' now as I am in yours. Be careful which 'random moves you throw out' from now on, because I now have much, MUCH more data.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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