Animation canceling, Dodging, weaving

Mag7spy

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Dygz

Quote or it didn't happen.

JamesSunderland

Zyvan wrote: »

Funny you should say that considering BDO was one of the MMOs Steven claimed to be pulling inspiration from around the time Alpha 1 was running.

If I recall correctly, the 3 games mentioned were Archeage for skill synergies and the way they worked with each other, GW2 for mobility, and BDO for its hit effects and visceral feeling of landing abilities on enemies.

I will have to ask for a quote for both BDO and GW2

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Inspiration

Dygz

Some quotes are not in the wiki - but it will be great if someone can find that.

Zyvan

Since it was said by Steven in voice chat, it's not something I can find a quote for as easily. But if you're willing to search in Discord with the keywords "gw2 mobility," you'll find a few references from others about Steven mentioning all 3 games. Not a direct quote, but something to show that I'm not pulling it straight out of my ass.

@l3v3rag3 should be able to corroborate that.

SirChancelot

falcorpix wrote: »

to be fair, BDO's combat is great for what the game is, I dont think it is great for high-end pve content, at least not the type of content we are used to.
However I think the "foundation" of the combat is great, its visceral, its smooth and satisfying, if it had way less AoE spam and more utlility, it would be pretty good.

It's great... If it changes all those things?
I never got into BDO so I don't really know

Dygz

Zyvan wrote: »

Since it was said by Steven in voice chat, it's not something I can find a quote for as easily. But if you're willing to search in Discord with the keywords "gw2 mobility," you'll find a few references from others about Steven mentioning all 3 games. Not a direct quote, but something to show that I'm not pulling it straight out of my ass.

@l3v3rag3 should be able to corroborate that.

Haha
Mmmnn hmmmn.

Mag7spy

SirChancelot wrote: »

falcorpix wrote: »

to be fair, BDO's combat is great for what the game is, I dont think it is great for high-end pve content, at least not the type of content we are used to.
However I think the "foundation" of the combat is great, its visceral, its smooth and satisfying, if it had way less AoE spam and more utlility, it would be pretty good.

It's great... If it changes all those things?
I never got into BDO so I don't really know

People are missing what is being talked about and purposely. Its like you have a whole cake and the icing is amazing but the sponge part is very dry and not good. Rather then listening to what people are saying they just say its all bad looking at the cake as a whole rather then the part people are talking about.

Dygz

We listen, understand... and dsiagree with you.

Azherae

SirChancelot wrote: »

falcorpix wrote: »

to be fair, BDO's combat is great for what the game is, I dont think it is great for high-end pve content, at least not the type of content we are used to.
However I think the "foundation" of the combat is great, its visceral, its smooth and satisfying, if it had way less AoE spam and more utlility, it would be pretty good.

It's great... If it changes all those things?
I never got into BDO so I don't really know

If it matters to you, it isn't really about that exactly, though it does give that feeling if you play certain classes. BDO is a difficult thing to understand if you haven't approached it in a certain way.

So whereas Dygz might see them as very different, I, who have played BDO for a while, see BDO and Ashes combat as potentially being very similar. I'm really excited to see what Intrepid does with it as a result. I hope that Dygz also feels the same once it's done.

But if that happens, it'll probably be because 'Ashes will do the same thing as BDO but in a form Dygz can understand', rather than 'Ashes does something different than BDO does'.

Dygz

Most likely, Ashes combat is going to be significantly different than BDO combat.
So... it will be because Ashes combat is different and is designed as an RPG, rather than a Hack & Slash.

Azherae

Dygz wrote: »

Most likely, Ashes combat is going to be significantly different than BDO combat.
So... it will be because Ashes combat is different and is designed as an RPG, rather than a Hack & Slash.

This would be true if BDO was just a Hack and Slash game, yes.

Or if there were no 'Hack and Slash' characters in RPGs that might play like BDO characters.

Or if every BDO character was 'flashy and overdone' and not just some.

Or if BDO's few PvE content didn't feel exactly like what Ashes felt like and hadn't moved more toward what BDO feels like rather than away from it.

Or if Ashes didn't have the same tricks as BDO for melee combat baked into the system since Alpha-1 and apparently doubled down on in the new Combat Update.

I really hope you don't end up disappointed... but I at least trust that you will test it properly once we have it and not just 'look at it and decide you don't like it because it looks similar'.

Brains do a good job of keeping up their confirmation biases though, so I'm sure you'll be fine.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

We listen, understand... and dsiagree with you.

If you understand please show me exactly what I am talking about with gameplay.

Azherae

I don't even need to read what you posted to know that it's probably not going to advance this conversation...

Do I need to make a whole BDO Combat Primer post explaining the combat just so we don't keep going back and forth about this? Cause you know me, I'm both arrogant and experienced enough to do so, if it will prevent all this 'discussion'.

SirChancelot

BDO lost me when I heard P2W and PvP for the same game
Should I try it for it's combat?
From the videos I've seen it looks so jumpy and flashy with over the top effects... I looked like it would just get tiresome to look at after a while.

Azherae

SirChancelot wrote: »

BDO lost me when I heard P2W and PvP for the same game
Should I try it for it's combat?
From the videos I've seen it looks so jumpy and flashy with over the top effects... I looked like it would just get tiresome to look at after a while.

I can't say whether or not you should try it. There is no need to, really, since Ashes is proceeding as it is.

It's quite tiresome to look at, yes.

The only reason I would advise picking up BDO at all ever is if you wanted to increase your understanding of certain things in game design. I cannot recommend the game to anyone whose purpose is to actually enjoy a game.

Mag7spy

SirChancelot wrote: »

BDO lost me when I heard P2W and PvP for the same game
Should I try it for it's combat?
From the videos I've seen it looks so jumpy and flashy with over the top effects... I looked like it would just get tiresome to look at after a while.

You can make a trial character and duel people but I wouldn't say its worth playing just for that. You also would have to put in a decent amount of time to understand the combat system, but then you would understand what we are talking about with BDO combat.

Its not that flashy as you turn down the effects and they aren't nearly as noticeable (people don't really play in remastered). Flashy and jumpy isn't what we are talking about with the flow and feel of combat though. Its about when you use a move and how thing can flow together like they are the same action. If you look at other mmos I think tera might have had something similar where you use a move then it gives you access to use another move and they go together well. Where as BDO there is a mix of set skills that you can use but also options for other skills that mix well together over being forced to use the same one. Which allows you to use more skills and play a bit more organically then something that is as cookie cutter or doesn't have flow between attacks.

Mag7spy

If you want to understand what people mean about it though you can't just pick it up and play it. It would take time to learn it through use of a trial character because of the learning curve. That is why its a bit annoying if someone says this is bad and i don't care how long you played it or that I only played it for a small amount of time, kind of view point if a bit ignorant. I just don't understand why argue saying something is bad if you didn't really play it. Saying you couldn't get into it and it felt clunky is fine if you respect the view point of another that played the game and understands it. Idk why this would be even a debate clearly someone that spent like a thousand hours on it knows more than someone with like 30 hours -shrugs-

GrilledCheeseMojito

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you want to understand what people mean about it though you can't just pick it up and play it. It would take time to learn it through use of a trial character because of the learning curve. That is why its a bit annoying if someone says this is bad and i don't care how long you played it or that I only played it for a small amount of time, kind of view point if a bit ignorant. I just don't understand why argue saying something is bad if you didn't really play it. Saying you couldn't get into it and it felt clunky is fine if you respect the view point of another that played the game and understands it. Idk why this would be even a debate clearly someone that spent like a thousand hours on it knows more than someone with like 30 hours -shrugs-

You can definitely tell whether the combat feels right or not without spending too much time on it. I don't expect that everyone can do this, but I read every skill on someone's character in BDO that seemed to fit the kind of playstyle I like, and within like 15 minutes I was able to play fairly effectively.

People decide on whether a fighting game's combat feels right for them within a couple hours, what makes something like BDO different?

Mag7spy

GrilledCheeseMojito wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you want to understand what people mean about it though you can't just pick it up and play it. It would take time to learn it through use of a trial character because of the learning curve. That is why its a bit annoying if someone says this is bad and i don't care how long you played it or that I only played it for a small amount of time, kind of view point if a bit ignorant. I just don't understand why argue saying something is bad if you didn't really play it. Saying you couldn't get into it and it felt clunky is fine if you respect the view point of another that played the game and understands it. Idk why this would be even a debate clearly someone that spent like a thousand hours on it knows more than someone with like 30 hours -shrugs-

You can definitely tell whether the combat feels right or not without spending too much time on it. I don't expect that everyone can do this, but I read every skill on someone's character in BDO that seemed to fit the kind of playstyle I like, and within like 15 minutes I was able to play fairly effectively.

People decide on whether a fighting game's combat feels right for them within a couple hours, what makes something like BDO different?

BDO has a high learning curve and you won't get a sense of it until you have put a lot of time into the game. The mechanics are different as well as class to class and knowing how moves work and such. To be decent and for ti not to be clunky it takes more time for the average player. Also when you are starting he game not leveled without all your skills you can't even play it properly until you are a high level with your awakening.

That being said if the learning curve wasn't as high anyone could pick it up and play with it fine but this is just a case with BDO because of its more complex combat mechanics.

Dygz

I am decent with BDO combat.
It doesn't feel clunky.
It's great for BDO... hack & slash.
It's not good for an MMORPG.

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