Corruption system in relation to auto-flagging in open sea

This is not a post about if auto-flagging is good or not, or about preference between the two.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)

The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.

E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.

In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?

Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?

In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.

You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!

When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!

The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.

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Comments

Sigtyr

Dygz wrote: »

No. That's not what a Battlegrounds is for Ashes.
Ashes Battlegrounds are Caravans and Sieges; not zones. Rather... that's what they were before today.
Also, you opt-in/sign up to flag as Combatant for those.
We now have all Naval content as Battlegorunds.

Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.

Scarbeus

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Isn't there normally like a tab at the top of the forums with upcoming planned dev update like a couple of days before? Must've somehow missed it.

Last Friday of every month is a dev update. If you're on the Discord you also get notified about 30 mins before.

Dygz

Sigtyr wrote: »

Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.

If I am flagged as Combatant just for exploring the world, I'm out.
It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.

Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.

Mag7spy

Honestly its hype I'm 100% looking forward to that, going to actually make the seas feel dangerous for people out there, add more politics, drama and such. Curious how much money is there going to be made out in the sea as well with content. My guild was like when is this gaming releasing lol.

@NiKr When i heard sea is auto flag

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Sigtyr wrote: »

Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.

If I am flagged as Combatant just for exploring the world, I'm out.
It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.

Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.

Wouldnt this provide a slightly lighter load of ganking inland though? Could just avoid ocean content and have fun on the mainlaind

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

It's a dealbreaker.
Like EvE and ArcheAge, that's too PvP-centric for me.
I won't be playing.
Unless we can use the Divine Gateways to port to starting areas on other continents.

Why don't you just not focus on sea content in the game and have more of a focus on the content on the land? If you need to travel by sea just do that when you need to every so often. There might be a safe way to travel between land if you aren't trying to transport things it is a possibility.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Sigtyr wrote: »

Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.

If I am flagged as Combatant just for exploring the world, I'm out.
It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.

Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.

Also I am totally planning on starting a "safe passage" escort service across the sea.

EDIT: maybe escort service isnt good wording

Mag7spy

Okeydoke wrote: »

Damnit watching the vod now and you spoiled this news for me Dolyem. Dygz get yur ass in the game. It's fine. I haven't seen the part of the stream yet where they talk about this, but I'd have to imagine if they're going to add a lawless zone like this, they may err on making the corruption system harsher in general.

Corruption system is already really harsh, up to extremely harsh based on how dense the server is with seeing people around. If you are red and walking by 20 people, there is a high chance they flag on you causing you to lose more progress than you gain and gear drops.

Warth

Great change. Very good decision by Intrepid. Love it.
Open Seas should be wild and untamed. Cross Continental Caravans/Merchant ships should be high risk, high value.
Being on the open sea should be high-risk.

SongRune

Liniker

Dygz wrote: »

It's a dealbreaker.
Like EvE and ArcheAge, that's too PvP-centric for me.
I won't be playing.
Unless we can use the Divine Gateways to port to starting areas on other continents.

oh no... I don't see a "LMAO" from you today my friend

maybe Phanteon will be the game for you...

Asgerr

SongRune wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just not a huge fan of having to swim to shore (while being open game for re-ganking every time I spawn, cause I can't exactly fight while swimming) because my passenger transport was raided. That's my big complaint.

It'll literally take you 5 minutes, 10 at most, to reach shore, given the estimates provided.

And you can in fact fight in and under water. So you might be able to move and fight, though slower.

mcstackerson

SongRune wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just not a huge fan of having to swim to shore (while being open game for re-ganking every time I spawn, cause I can't exactly fight while swimming) because my passenger transport was raided. That's my big complaint.

If you die at sea, you will spawn on the shore. There are no corpse runs.

We also have water mounts. You can see them in teh alpha footage.

Dizz1

Good thing, but if it's just a vehicle battle which means that just ship fights ship and players only fight on ship fall in to ocean means death or underwater combat is not good like combat on land, no thanks, too much missing links.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

Wouldnt this provide a slightly lighter load of ganking inland though? Could just avoid ocean content and have fun on the mainlaind

Irrelevant.

Mag7spy

SongRune wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just not a huge fan of having to swim to shore (while being open game for re-ganking every time I spawn, cause I can't exactly fight while swimming) because my passenger transport was raided. That's my big complaint.

if you die at sea you should have a option to respawn at the last town you were at and/or there should be a boat you can wait for that you can be transported by and be safe. (as long as you aren't carrying to much and getting a free transports across against the sea).

There shouldn't be any point where you get griefed at sea with respawns.

Dygz

Liniker wrote: »

oh no... I don't see a "LMAO" from you today my friend maybe Phanteon will be the game for you...

LMAO
I went back to my first post and fixed that for you!!

Ryozo

players having the need to announce, that they will not be playing ashes after this change.. oh no...

.. anyway

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

NiKr When i heard sea is auto flag

Yeah, that was definitely a huge "wait what?!" moment (in a good way). If I decide to live in Sujoma, I'm definitely gonna be fighting all kinds of ship battles. It's gon be gooood

Dolyem

I really hope we get a closer look at ship types/stats soon

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