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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
To the Action Combat Fans
DarkTides
Member
What Action Combat games do you guys consider to be good? Link or reference the game.
Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly.
Action Combat games always get messed up.
Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly.
Action Combat games always get messed up.
0
Comments
There's a recent healthy discussion on the topic (38 pages) ... located HERE.
Includes game references.
One note for watchers, The camera used to watch these is the dynamic spectator camera that is ingame, not just for tournaments. the players have their own PoV that is basically your typical mmorpg ui.
1v1 mirror match
1v1 mirror match
three matches, a 1v1, a 3v3, and another 1v1.
The 3v3s have some interesting mechanics like assisting or tagging in. one teammate can decide at any point to use their assist charge to hop in for 10 seconds of fun. During that time they can do and use anything they want to help their buddy, but they also take damage and can potentially be killed. If the time limit is reached or player decides to they can swap out with the player next in line to fight. They then go to the back of the "line" for tagging in.
Similar but not the same post.
I happen to like Action Combat, just not the way developers provide it to us in MMOs.
Ashes is hybrid.
I think the main issue with action combat games is the lack of realism, while trying to employ a realistic means of combat(that being action combat).
Similar to the issue that occurs when older games tried to create realistic graphics, the game did not age well, thus these cartoonish Disney games emerged in hopes to allow the graphics to last so people wouldn't just hop on over to the next better looking game.
Action Combat appears to be limited, either by programming capability, laziness or I dunno what it is. Maybe one day, when we all have neuro-interfaces and plug into the Matrix, we'll have what Action Combat games deserve to have. Until then, to me, it's like watching people play a wannabe realism game with outdated graphics.
Or do you find the same thing to be true for the more grounded recent Monster Hunter games?
I know that you can say that Monster Hunter games are not as realistic because the characters are often too 'superhuman', but I don't know that one could say 'these aren't realistic' in the other sense? What is the 'lack of realism' in Monster Hunter?
Probably all action combat games. Some do it better than others, but there will always be missing components. MMOs are more satisfying to be a part of. When tab targeting is used, it lowers the realism requirement bar and focuses more on something else it appears.
Definition of realistic here would be reflecting what would transpire in reality, in the game. For 'superhuman' characters, realism would require additional imagination, demonstrated in movies. So I won't be happy until that happens.
Well, what's the missing component in Monster Hunter, for example? Within gameplay limitations of 'needing your character to keep functioning at least a little and not get sliced in half too easily', of course.
1. A game where you can press a key and it causes your character to automatically walk up to your target and attack to use your skill. (requiring nothing of you but to press the button)
2. You walk you walk up to the target and press your ability and attempt to hit the target which it can attempt to move away from your attack
If someone preferred option one there isn't much else for me to say so id just leave it at that. If option 2 I'd say because the person feels it is more immersed and requires effort over the game playing for you.
So the next question would be why is that more enjoy able, and how to incorporate that into a mmorpg. With a history of that being the came with the genre over the years.
GuildWars2
This one felt vast, and it was immediately apparent that GW2 possesses vast and deep lore. However? It's gameplay felt just a little outdated/previous-generation, and the levelling experience looked to be a bit too-linear. GREAT in-game community tools and personal customization.
NeverWinter Online
NOT the spiritual successor of the first MMO of both Steven Sharif and I(Neverwinter Nights on AOL, 1991-1997). The combat action in this one is interesting, in that your default action toolbar is limited to 5 spaces; You must decide upon what abilities you have obtained in levelling will best serve you, in combat. The BLOCK feature is also great, in that you can use your ability-points to instead defend yourself against critically/lethal attacks - with the correct timing.
Black Desert Online
If you ever investigate BDO? You'll eventually come across such terms as "waste of potential". Probably 10-15 years from now?
Emulators are far more-likely to be both popular and player-retentive. The reason for this is that - while the game engine is such a wonder, in its ability to fast-generate and retain such complete visual renderings - is the constant in-game Cash-Shop "reminders".
BDO is infamous for scaring off new/F2P players with it's *IN-GAME CASH SHOP POP-UP ADVERTISEMENTS*. Quite literally? you don't need to navigate your toon to a quest-objective; Auto-pilot will do that, for you!
No, you didn't mis-read that/I'm NOT exaggerating; You will get constant pop-up ads in-game, for Cash Shop items.
Thus far?
We're really a generation of pre-intrinsic MMORPGs - a genre that will only gain more followers, with the passage of time. What a thrill to know that IRL friends will be joining me, as we all venture into a brand new setting and conquer the unknown!
I'm also a big fan of the Monster Hunter Series (my only complaint is that I love playing supportive roles, but hunting horn is just not my weapon).
I like the direction of combat in games like Genshin Impact - but I find their overall combat feels spammy and linear. Specifically, you have basically 1 set combo on each character, and you cycle all characters to do their 1 combo - very linear.
Finally, I've also heard great things about Dragon's Dogma, but can't personally comment on it. I've purchased it and will be exploring soon.
EDIT: I really enjoyed Lost Ark's combat, but some would argue I can't use that as an example because it's played from an isometric perspective. League of Legends too.
How about yourself? What do you consider to be realistic about Monster World Hunters combat?
I personally can't say anything is realistic at all, for me though. You can do more in Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, and that game was released in 2013
Basically, I'm looking for massive improvements in Action Combat games. We may see it over the years, but the Devs are lazy IMO, and are milking the genre with it's current iteration. There's a certain formula used to trigger appeal, but they could have a wider audience if they worked for it. It is a mockery of what it could be and thus why I made the comparison to that of older games trying to have realistic graphics. Action Combat games are utilizing "old" ways to try and demonstrate realism in combat, and it fails. Not discrediting people who like it, but those people must enjoy it for other reasons than realistic combat. Hack and Slash spam aspect perhaps.
It also made tanking a lot of fun. I don't usually play a tank in MMOs, but there was a class in Tera that was an evasive tank rather than just a meat shield, and timing your dodges to avoid the bosses big attacks was extremely engaging. I had a lot of fun with that alt.
That said, I don't know if pure action combat would work as well with the scale of the game they want for AoC. I can imagine that it could be nearly impossible to make action combat work in a 500 v 500 battle. It must take a lot more computation to register hits in action combat than it does in tab targeting. So for the vision they have for this game, I'm fine with a hybrid combat that skews towards tab targeting. I'm sure they can still make it feel very fun and rewarding.
I must ignore the reflection here, but I appreciate you going right for it.
I probably don't understand your point, but I'm willing to disengage on it.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
I look at the genre for the pieces that make up the machine.
I like the way Conquerors Blade has an importance on precision, combat geometry, map utilization in combination with intelligent positioning.
I liked Darkfall for its gap in the skill floor and the skill ceiling, there was much to learn and many aspects of the game to master. It too had an importance in precision, as well has timing.
And I prefer those things over a tacticle-kinesthetic memorization of a sequence.
Player efficacy and control is more rewarding to me than rng.
its not about being realistic. its about being believable
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
Quite true. That choice of word better suits the situation, though each of our own definitions of what each of us think of either word may find us at odds, all the while thinking we know. I do not know how closely related you would place realism and believableness.
Imagination plays a significant role in shaping that perception, as we do not have realistic examples to base magic, and superhuman capability off of.
Because of this, my imagination leaves me questioning whats been given from action combat games, hoping that one day I will believe what I see.
I would very much like an action combat game that combines various takes on action combat, while removing what I find to detract from believableness. Here is where branching begins.
Skills that make a good healer for example:
-Know who is priority to heal in a certain scenario
-Be good at reading the combat to be able to use strong/important abilities in crucial situations
-Pre-hot and pre-absorb before the damage even comes in
-Having good movement to not be targeted as easily by the enemy.
This is just a few skills that makes a good healer.
Have you ever played a mmorpg with the trinity system before?
/edit
After reading more of the thread idk if you are ironic but anyways I see this and similar arguments all the time. Is it not fairly obvious that more skills than mouse aim skills exist in mmos?
It all depends on how you build the rest of the combat system.
It is difficult to find everything that a player personally would enjoy, all found in a single game. That can be said for many types of games...obviously... I have a general idea of what Id prefer to have in an action combat game, however, Action combat games appear to have the most difficulty finding the right combination, and suffers from a lack of innovation.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen an mmo put together with all of the right aspects, I know one thing though.
I don’t like sloppy looking combat and over emphasis on visuals and an under emphasis on engineering. It’s something most MMOs do, most don’t seem to understand the art of combat.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
That's a really shallow comparison my dude.
That was my understanding of it...
Honestly
Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat...