Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
Honestly
Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat...
I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference.
I tend to heal more often than I DPS (usually Rogue) or tank (just one game really) in games that 'Respect the Role Trinity'.
I know a few others as well, but I hang out with MOBA players.
Then again I don't believe in 'Action', 'Tab' or even 'Hybrid'. The little details make up much more of the gameplay than any of those things for me. (before anyone derails, I don't currently like the implementation Ashes has chosen, but they promised Tab Target, so it must be this way, I'll settle for balance on Rangers' 'combo ender shot' not helping them with CC)
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
Honestly
Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat...
I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference.
I tend to heal more often than I DPS (usually Rogue) or tank (just one game really) in games that 'Respect the Role Trinity'.
I know a few others as well, but I hang out with MOBA players.
Then again I don't believe in 'Action', 'Tab' or even 'Hybrid'. The little details make up much more of the gameplay than any of those things for me. (before anyone derails, I don't currently like the implementation Ashes has chosen, but they promised Tab Target, so it must be this way, I'll settle for balance on Rangers' 'combo ender shot' not helping them with CC)
What game have you played as heals with action combat?
Was it NW?
I've seen videos of NW pvp... it was spamming AOE heals or AOE dps of one form or another. I don't even have to say 'boiled down to'... its ALL it was.
NW action combat gives this result: 'spam AoEs'
Its LESS engaging than tab, less thought goes into it, less strategy. 'Aim for biggest group and mash aoe button'.
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
Honestly
Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat...
I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference.
I tend to heal more often than I DPS (usually Rogue) or tank (just one game really) in games that 'Respect the Role Trinity'.
I know a few others as well, but I hang out with MOBA players.
Then again I don't believe in 'Action', 'Tab' or even 'Hybrid'. The little details make up much more of the gameplay than any of those things for me. (before anyone derails, I don't currently like the implementation Ashes has chosen, but they promised Tab Target, so it must be this way, I'll settle for balance on Rangers' 'combo ender shot' not helping them with CC)
What game have you played as heals with action combat?
Was it NW?
I've seen videos of NW pvp... it was spamming AOE heals or AOE dps of one form or another. I don't even have to say 'boiled down to'... its ALL it was.
NW action combat gives this result: 'spam AoEs'
Its LESS engaging than tab, less thought goes into it, less strategy. 'Aim for biggest group and mash aoe button'.
I feel like I've had this exact discussion with you precisely before in another thread. I am not talking about AoE.
I think it ended without either of us in any way swayed, educated or satisfied.
I will only repeat that if Action Combat healing is a thing in Ashes, particularly very mobile healing, I will be happy, and this applies even if I must aim a reticle at moving allied targets to heal them. I don't expect it to be, so it probably won't matter.
I will start witht he most basic example I can do and we can go from there. What is more fun
1. A game where you can press a key and it causes your character to automatically walk up to your target and attack to use your skill. (requiring nothing of you but to press the button)
2. You walk you walk up to the target and press your ability and attempt to hit the target which it can attempt to move away from your attack
If someone preferred option one there isn't much else for me to say so id just leave it at that. If option 2 I'd say because the person feels it is more immersed and requires effort over the game playing for you.
So the next question would be why is that more enjoy able, and how to incorporate that into a mmorpg. With a history of that being the came with the genre over the years.
That's a really shallow comparison my dude.
It is breaking down gameplay at a basic level to start to explain things. It is meant to be shallow. When that element is talked about then more can continue. Simply typing a giant page isn't going to be digested well.
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
I can't believe i need to break this down.... The point of aiming and players being able to dodge is to increase the skill level by making it more difficult for a enemy to hit you... The same rules do not apply when you are talking about support skills because that is not a competitive element to support your team. The work around it so simply do aoe buffs and heals to bypass it and make it easier than working in system that are more smart and automatic. Which also would make things easier. So cooperate buffs, heals and such though some action ones can be fine there is nothing wrong with targeted.
Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
To try to use a childish argument on action to make support harder in order to hope it creates frustration or a more difficult system to balance out the difficulty is again a childish and silly comparison.
This being said you can still make action healing work but it is a lot work more and programming....
One example be sending out a heal that goes in a direction that pings in a large aoe around it, that seeks out a target based on parameters you have set and heals the target. This way it won't heal the first target touched but search in a general area for the target you want.
Wont be as effective as targeted healing and require a lot more micro managing in theory.
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
I can't believe i need to break this down.... The point of aiming and players being able to dodge is to increase the skill level by making it more difficult for a enemy to hit you... The same rules do not apply when you are talking about support skills because that is not a competitive element to support your team. The work around it so simply do aoe buffs and heals to bypass it and make it easier than working in system that are more smart and automatic. Which also would make things easier. So cooperate buffs, heals and such though some action ones can be fine there is nothing wrong with targeted.
Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
To try to use a childish argument on action to make support harder in order to hope it creates frustration or a more difficult system to balance out the difficulty is again a childish and silly comparison.
This doesn't make any sense. Why is using aiming now a "make it more difficult mechanic". That's the whole idea of Action combat, right? There's also skill involved in guessing where your ally will go.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Are you telling me that healing is a lesser role then and requires LESS skills to play?
Anna is a snipe healer and works perfectly, why don't have that?
If you don't aim, you are bad.
Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
This doesnt make any sense at all.
Either aiming is fun, or it isn't.
Either aiming is a great way to add "skill" or "challenge", or it isn't.
These things aren't and can't be situational based on if you are playing offense or defense.
If your healer can't aim in an action combat game, you should all fail.
It isnt a childish argument at all, as you have suggested. It is a perfectly valid and reasonable point.
Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
This doesnt make any sense at all.
Either aiming is fun, or it isn't.
Either aiming is a great way to add "skill" or "challenge", or it isn't.
These things aren't and can't be situational based on if you are playing offense or defense.
If your healer can't aim in an action combat game, you should all fail.
It isnt a childish argument at all, as you have suggested. It is a perfectly valid and reasonable point.
Either aiming is good, or aiming is not good.
This is actually a troll from people that only want tab gameplay, guess im not surprised this is coming from you.
Either aiming is fun, or it isn't.
Obviously it is more than tab that is actually brain dead easy mode. That doesn't mean you need to add difficulty to supporting your team.
Either aiming is a great way to add "skill" or "challenge", or it isn't.
A persons skill and difficulty to avoid does not mean that difficulty should be scaling with people trying to support them. This is actually a brain dead argument and why heals are aoe or they do smart healing in games.
If your healer can't aim in an action combat game, you should all fail.
This is not how balance works.
It isnt a childish argument at all, as you have suggested. It is a perfectly valid and reasonable point.
You are literarily being childish you either whine about tab or whine about trackers
Either aiming is good, or aiming is not good.
Clearly aiming is good and far more fun to play. Doesn't mean you create balance issues with healing and support type skills. That is not the purpose of action combat to make supports have a harder time.
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.
No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Why not?
I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way.
I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
I can't believe i need to break this down.... The point of aiming and players being able to dodge is to increase the skill level by making it more difficult for a enemy to hit you... The same rules do not apply when you are talking about support skills because that is not a competitive element to support your team. The work around it so simply do aoe buffs and heals to bypass it and make it easier than working in system that are more smart and automatic. Which also would make things easier. So cooperate buffs, heals and such though some action ones can be fine there is nothing wrong with targeted.
Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
To try to use a childish argument on action to make support harder in order to hope it creates frustration or a more difficult system to balance out the difficulty is again a childish and silly comparison.
This doesn't make any sense. Why is using aiming now a "make it more difficult mechanic". That's the whole idea of Action combat, right? There's also skill involved in guessing where your ally will go.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Are you telling me that healing is a lesser role then and requires LESS skills to play?
Anna is a snipe healer and works perfectly, why don't have that?
If you don't aim, you are bad.
Go play overwatch then if you don't want to use your brain and actually think or understand. If you want to think and understand things will make sense.
This is actually a troll from people that only want tab gameplay, guess im not surprised this is coming from you.
I am well and truly on record on these forums for being absolutely behind hybrid combat.
While *I* plan to mostly use tab, I absolutely want action combat to be as good as it can be.
This is just more of the same of your usual bullshit. I am all for as much variation as the game can have, you are all for only wanting it to be how you want it to be.
If Ashes has both action and tab offense, it should have both action and tab defense. Any player should then be able to pick how they want to build their character within that.
If you can't handle action based defense builds and would prefer tab based, you should absolutely be able to have at it. I'm in no way trying to stop you - yet you are trying to stop people like Azherae from having their preferred action based healer.
Again, more of your same bullshit - arguing that Ashes should be only about you.
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
New World seemed to do a pretty good job of this by introducing a party and zerg healing mode. Also this is supposed to be a hybrid system game, where you can switch to tab if you need to, no one here is arguing for full action, we just want the option.
This is actually a troll from people that only want tab gameplay, guess im not surprised this is coming from you.
I am well and truly on record on these forums for being absolutely behind hybrid combat.
While *I* plan to mostly use tab, I absolutely want action combat to be as good as it can be.
This is just more of the same of your usual bullshit. I am all for as much variation as the game can have, you are all for only wanting it to be how you want it to be.
If Ashes has both action and tab offense, it should have both action and tab defense. Any player should then be able to pick how they want to build their character within that.
If you can't handle action based defense builds and would prefer tab based, you should absolutely be able to have at it. I'm in no way trying to stop you - yet you are trying to stop people like Azherae from having their preferred action based healer.
Again, more of your same bullshit - arguing that Ashes should be only about you.
Only Bs I'm smelling is from you right now, when did I say I can't handle something. This has nothing to do with what someone can handle but general balance around the game and what people have done in the past with healing in action side of mmorpgs.
As usual you are trying to be manipulative, clear as day in this post. This is why you are someone that can not be trusted, you talk of BS but that is your own aura following you.
No one has tried to stop anything, that is you trying to spin a false narrative because that is all you can do is to spin your points. 24/7.
As usual people should not believe or trust you, or you need to start throwing some respect on my name and reading my points and understanding my view point so you don't make bad take after bad take.
Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck
End of raid
New World seemed to do a pretty good job of this by introducing a party and zerg healing mode. Also this is supposed to be a hybrid system game, where you can switch to tab if you need to, no one here is arguing for full action, we just want the option.
New world healing is extremely broken.
Besides the broken part it has aoe, and targeted healing which is expected.
I think we had this kind of discussions before/after/during A1 I don't remember exactly when, we were talk about like what the advantage should a healer gain from using action mode, the discussion was not going any where to me so I left the thread in the middle because I always think action mode less depend on RNG than tab mode game design is not good or say not healthy for the game and people keep trying to find solutions to make action mode feel action and rewarded and balance and everyone talks different degrees/aspects/perspectives about how should action be despite there still no middle ground in those discussions.
So the first or maybe the only problem is the “risk vs reward” or say "action mode less depend on RNG than tab mode" because it's the foundation of why we are talking about these topics at least to me, should it expend to the level of “tab mode vs action mode” is another “risk vs reward” in Ashes of Creation, or should it just stay at the level “target oriented skill vs action oriented skill”.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things like that and it will work within reason. But the point is no one is generally playing a action game and saying there can't be targeted heals. People wouldn't have a issue with that.
People have a issue thing with the DPS if it is targeted and they can't do anything to avoid it and don't have that push and pull feeling of pressure.
So there is nothing wrong with targeted healing in a action game because healing isn't really thought of in more of a strategic way. It is just use aoe heal or smart heal and easy. Because it isn't thought of as much in a action stylish game people won't have a issue with targeted healing as they are more indifferent to it.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things like that and it will work within reason. But the point is no one is generally playing a action game and saying there can't be targeted heals. People wouldn't have a issue with that.
People have a issue thing with the DPS if it is targeted and they can't do anything to avoid it and don't have that push and pull feeling of pressure.
So there is nothing wrong with targeted healing in a action game because healing isn't really thought of in more of a strategic way. It is just use aoe heal or smart heal and easy. Because it isn't thought of as much in a action stylish game people won't have a issue with targeted healing as they are more indifferent to it.
We know that there will be Tab Target Heals, but it's not as if Action Style games normally have a lot more 'Lock On' target heals. So the question I have is why it's 'balanced' or not? Even if healing and buffing is supposed to be cooperative, the opponent being able to affect it to mess with the healing is often exactly the point.
Action Games with a lot of Tab Target healing often end up adding abilities to nerf the Healing's effect instead of 'making the Healer's role harder', because of some reason, right? Usually because the 'basic heal' is 'Tab Targeted'.
Just apply the same reason to Ranger. The opponent 'wanting to do something to throw off the Healer's aim on that Healer's ally' isn't much different from 'the opponent wanting to do something to throw off the Fighter's aim against them'. It's balanced that way because of convention, which we can move past.
If your point is that less people will play Healers if it is like that, because it's hard, then that's the same reason we should have Tab Target Basic Shots for Rangers. We want more people to be able to play Rangers too. All the same problems with balance apply on both sides.
people commenting on healing in action games should not be easy and should have the same degree of difficulty as other playstyles arent commenting on why melee swings are so easy to land in action games , shouldnt they be difficult too or not hit everything near them?
so what should we have as an easy to play, introductory class for beginners in an action combat game?
Low skill floor and high ceiling. Everyone should have basic low impact abilities and attacks, but anything impactful and heavy should be harder to execute.
so what should we have as an easy to play, introductory class for beginners in an action combat game?
The short version is that you 'shouldn't'.
The introductory class is almost always 'weak' for balance purposes, or 'overpowered' because you don't have to work as hard for results.
There should be a whole introductory PERIOD.
There's also a different factor to this which HAS been solved before in a lot of games. Gamers with NO previous gaming skills will always struggle in PvP games, so you need to teach them differently. Gamers with skills from other games should have 'a class or character that somewhat parallels those games' to give them a 'head start in understanding' relative to others.
This is actually a good argument for why we 'shouldn't' need a Tab-Target Ranger as MUCH, because many of the people who would think "I want to play Ranger" would have been playing games where they already had to do all the 'Action Combat' parts.
It's also a good argument for why Mag's point of view is correct. The reason Healing 'should be easy and cooperative' is 'because it's often been easy and cooperative'. But this matters only if you 'only want a lot of Healers from previous games like that'. Answer to that is probably yes.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things like that and it will work within reason. But the point is no one is generally playing a action game and saying there can't be targeted heals. People wouldn't have a issue with that.
People have a issue thing with the DPS if it is targeted and they can't do anything to avoid it and don't have that push and pull feeling of pressure.
So there is nothing wrong with targeted healing in a action game because healing isn't really thought of in more of a strategic way. It is just use aoe heal or smart heal and easy. Because it isn't thought of as much in a action stylish game people won't have a issue with targeted healing as they are more indifferent to it.
We know that there will be Tab Target Heals, but it's not as if Action Style games normally have a lot more 'Lock On' target heals. So the question I have is why it's 'balanced' or not? Even if healing and buffing is supposed to be cooperative, the opponent being able to affect it to mess with the healing is often exactly the point.
Action Games with a lot of Tab Target healing often end up adding abilities to nerf the Healing's effect instead of 'making the Healer's role harder', because of some reason, right? Usually because the 'basic heal' is 'Tab Targeted'.
Just apply the same reason to Ranger. The opponent 'wanting to do something to throw off the Healer's aim on that Healer's ally' isn't much different from 'the opponent wanting to do something to throw off the Fighter's aim against them'. It's balanced that way because of convention, which we can move past.
If your point is that less people will play Healers if it is like that, because it's hard, then that's the same reason we should have Tab Target Basic Shots for Rangers. We want more people to be able to play Rangers too. All the same problems with balance apply on both sides.
Healing is delicate balance and depending on the content healing can become broken making content around healers very easy and necessary with the amount of healing done. On the other end with difficult content and their plans for healing there can be certain factor that could have healing cause some serious issues with healing not being as effective as planned under certain circumstances, mostly in tune with raids.
That is a balance I wouldn't be aware of at the same time for how it will feel until a lot more of the kit is shown in more of a content test.
I also wouldn't expect clerics to be zooming around the map as i doubt they will be nearly as mobile else that could potentially cause of balancing issues in contrast with the strength of their heals. Making it less effective for targeted heals in a pve sense.
In more pvp this is the issue with a person using their movement to avoid attacks while also indirectly avoiding heals as well if they are aim based. A players skill should not also affect them in a bad way from being able to receive healing if they are within range of the heal. That in itself feels a bit backwards design and why some action mmorpgs have went with aoe healing or added targeted healing.
As i said earlier no one is saying no action healing, and also no one is saying no targeted healing even more so when it comes to action mmorpgs. There is nothing wrong with targeted heals with action combat. With Noaani trying to say all aiming is bad if not every element is good which is just manipulative to me.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things like that and it will work within reason. But the point is no one is generally playing a action game and saying there can't be targeted heals. People wouldn't have a issue with that.
People have a issue thing with the DPS if it is targeted and they can't do anything to avoid it and don't have that push and pull feeling of pressure.
So there is nothing wrong with targeted healing in a action game because healing isn't really thought of in more of a strategic way. It is just use aoe heal or smart heal and easy. Because it isn't thought of as much in a action stylish game people won't have a issue with targeted healing as they are more indifferent to it.
We know that there will be Tab Target Heals, but it's not as if Action Style games normally have a lot more 'Lock On' target heals. So the question I have is why it's 'balanced' or not? Even if healing and buffing is supposed to be cooperative, the opponent being able to affect it to mess with the healing is often exactly the point.
Action Games with a lot of Tab Target healing often end up adding abilities to nerf the Healing's effect instead of 'making the Healer's role harder', because of some reason, right? Usually because the 'basic heal' is 'Tab Targeted'.
Just apply the same reason to Ranger. The opponent 'wanting to do something to throw off the Healer's aim on that Healer's ally' isn't much different from 'the opponent wanting to do something to throw off the Fighter's aim against them'. It's balanced that way because of convention, which we can move past.
If your point is that less people will play Healers if it is like that, because it's hard, then that's the same reason we should have Tab Target Basic Shots for Rangers. We want more people to be able to play Rangers too. All the same problems with balance apply on both sides.
Healing is delicate balance and depending on the content healing can become broken making content around healers very easy and necessary with the amount of healing done. On the other end with difficult content and their plans for healing there can be certain factor that could have healing cause some serious issues with healing not being as effective as planned under certain circumstances, mostly in tune with raids.
That is a balance I wouldn't be aware of at the same time for how it will feel until a lot more of the kit is shown in more of a content test.
I also wouldn't expect clerics to be zooming around the map as i doubt they will be nearly as mobile else that could potentially cause of balancing issues in contrast with the strength of their heals. Making it less effective for targeted heals in a pve sense.
In more pvp this is the issue with a person using their movement to avoid attacks while also indirectly avoiding heals as well if they are aim based. A players skill should not also affect them in a bad way from being able to receive healing if they are within range of the heal. That in itself feels a bit backwards design and why some action mmorpgs have went with aoe healing or added targeted healing.
As i said earlier no one is saying no action healing, and also no one is saying no targeted healing even more so when it comes to action mmorpgs. There is nothing wrong with targeted heals with action combat. With Noaani trying to say all aiming is bad if not every element is good which is just manipulative to me.
That's just synergy though. It already happens with AoE heals unless they are so huge as to be skill-less.
If your movement takes you out of the AoE or lingering heal zone, that's very similar. For this to not happen, the game would have to have limited movement.
I think I've maybe shared the concept of 'Mobile Healer who can't target themselves with their big heal' before, to you. That's the 'standard' balance system used by Action Games I play. It's so common that I don't feel like people would have TOO much trouble with it.
I don't disagree with you overall, but I feel you can't really say 'difficult content might be a problem if healing isn't as effective' and then add difficult CC skillshots/debuffs too. On the other hand, apparently many people DID find WildStar raiding too difficult...
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things like that and it will work within reason. But the point is no one is generally playing a action game and saying there can't be targeted heals. People wouldn't have a issue with that.
People have a issue thing with the DPS if it is targeted and they can't do anything to avoid it and don't have that push and pull feeling of pressure.
So there is nothing wrong with targeted healing in a action game because healing isn't really thought of in more of a strategic way. It is just use aoe heal or smart heal and easy. Because it isn't thought of as much in a action stylish game people won't have a issue with targeted healing as they are more indifferent to it.
We know that there will be Tab Target Heals, but it's not as if Action Style games normally have a lot more 'Lock On' target heals. So the question I have is why it's 'balanced' or not? Even if healing and buffing is supposed to be cooperative, the opponent being able to affect it to mess with the healing is often exactly the point.
Action Games with a lot of Tab Target healing often end up adding abilities to nerf the Healing's effect instead of 'making the Healer's role harder', because of some reason, right? Usually because the 'basic heal' is 'Tab Targeted'.
Just apply the same reason to Ranger. The opponent 'wanting to do something to throw off the Healer's aim on that Healer's ally' isn't much different from 'the opponent wanting to do something to throw off the Fighter's aim against them'. It's balanced that way because of convention, which we can move past.
If your point is that less people will play Healers if it is like that, because it's hard, then that's the same reason we should have Tab Target Basic Shots for Rangers. We want more people to be able to play Rangers too. All the same problems with balance apply on both sides.
Healing is delicate balance and depending on the content healing can become broken making content around healers very easy and necessary with the amount of healing done. On the other end with difficult content and their plans for healing there can be certain factor that could have healing cause some serious issues with healing not being as effective as planned under certain circumstances, mostly in tune with raids.
That is a balance I wouldn't be aware of at the same time for how it will feel until a lot more of the kit is shown in more of a content test.
I also wouldn't expect clerics to be zooming around the map as i doubt they will be nearly as mobile else that could potentially cause of balancing issues in contrast with the strength of their heals. Making it less effective for targeted heals in a pve sense.
In more pvp this is the issue with a person using their movement to avoid attacks while also indirectly avoiding heals as well if they are aim based. A players skill should not also affect them in a bad way from being able to receive healing if they are within range of the heal. That in itself feels a bit backwards design and why some action mmorpgs have went with aoe healing or added targeted healing.
As i said earlier no one is saying no action healing, and also no one is saying no targeted healing even more so when it comes to action mmorpgs. There is nothing wrong with targeted heals with action combat. With Noaani trying to say all aiming is bad if not every element is good which is just manipulative to me.
That's just synergy though. It already happens with AoE heals unless they are so huge as to be skill-less.
If your movement takes you out of the AoE or lingering heal zone, that's very similar. For this to not happen, the game would have to have limited movement.
I think I've maybe shared the concept of 'Mobile Healer who can't target themselves with their big heal' before, to you. That's the 'standard' balance system used by Action Games I play. It's so common that I don't feel like people would have TOO much trouble with it.
I don't disagree with you overall, but I feel you can't really say 'difficult content might be a problem if healing isn't as effective' and then add difficult CC skillshots/debuffs too. On the other hand, apparently many people DID find WildStar raiding too difficult...
Its just my thoughts at the end of the day we won't fully know until we can do the content and see the skills. I can be wrong on some stuff but its just my thought on trying to under stand all the pieces and how things will potentially work together and issues that can come up.
Action based healing feels a lot more in its infancy in ways to explore and solve problems compared to other elements.
So, when I said "if you cant handle", I was using the word "you" to refer to some indeterminate person (an accepted use case of the word), not specifically you.
Sure, I could have used the more formal indefinite pronoun "one", or the less formal "someone", but I honestly didn't think anyone other than a narcissist would think a comment about general game discussion and options available to all players would actually be a comment specifically about them.
That said, as a non-professional opinion, that actually seems to fit. You are always saying that your way is the only way, and that things others want shouldn't be included.
It actually does seem to fit quite well, honestly. Several discussions with you suddenly make a lot more sense.
So, when I said "if you cant handle", I was using the word "you" to refer to some indeterminate person (an accepted use case of the word), not specifically you.
Sure, I could have used the more formal indefinite pronoun "one", or the less formal "someone", but I honestly didn't think anyone other than a narcissist would think a comment about general game discussion and options available to all players would actually be a comment specifically about them.
That said, as a non-professional opinion, that actually seems to fit. You are always saying that your way is the only way, and that things others want shouldn't be included.
It actually does seem to fit quite well, honestly. Several discussions with you suddenly make a lot more sense.
Naa fits in line since you talk a lot of crap and have no respect as you have said to me before. So actually fits in line with me expecting you to do insults and/or calling people kids online.
100% figured it be no different because its my usual interactions with you.
Comments
I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference.
I tend to heal more often than I DPS (usually Rogue) or tank (just one game really) in games that 'Respect the Role Trinity'.
I know a few others as well, but I hang out with MOBA players.
Then again I don't believe in 'Action', 'Tab' or even 'Hybrid'. The little details make up much more of the gameplay than any of those things for me. (before anyone derails, I don't currently like the implementation Ashes has chosen, but they promised Tab Target, so it must be this way, I'll settle for balance on Rangers' 'combo ender shot' not helping them with CC)
What game have you played as heals with action combat?
Was it NW?
I've seen videos of NW pvp... it was spamming AOE heals or AOE dps of one form or another. I don't even have to say 'boiled down to'... its ALL it was.
NW action combat gives this result: 'spam AoEs'
Its LESS engaging than tab, less thought goes into it, less strategy. 'Aim for biggest group and mash aoe button'.
I feel like I've had this exact discussion with you precisely before in another thread. I am not talking about AoE.
I think it ended without either of us in any way swayed, educated or satisfied.
I will only repeat that if Action Combat healing is a thing in Ashes, particularly very mobile healing, I will be happy, and this applies even if I must aim a reticle at moving allied targets to heal them. I don't expect it to be, so it probably won't matter.
It is breaking down gameplay at a basic level to start to explain things. It is meant to be shallow. When that element is talked about then more can continue. Simply typing a giant page isn't going to be digested well.
I can't believe i need to break this down.... The point of aiming and players being able to dodge is to increase the skill level by making it more difficult for a enemy to hit you... The same rules do not apply when you are talking about support skills because that is not a competitive element to support your team. The work around it so simply do aoe buffs and heals to bypass it and make it easier than working in system that are more smart and automatic. Which also would make things easier. So cooperate buffs, heals and such though some action ones can be fine there is nothing wrong with targeted.
Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
To try to use a childish argument on action to make support harder in order to hope it creates frustration or a more difficult system to balance out the difficulty is again a childish and silly comparison.
One example be sending out a heal that goes in a direction that pings in a large aoe around it, that seeks out a target based on parameters you have set and heals the target. This way it won't heal the first target touched but search in a general area for the target you want.
Wont be as effective as targeted healing and require a lot more micro managing in theory.
This doesn't make any sense. Why is using aiming now a "make it more difficult mechanic". That's the whole idea of Action combat, right? There's also skill involved in guessing where your ally will go.
So in this system, why would I want to play a healer? If I all I have to do is spam AoE heal or targeted heals, then how is it fun for the healers?
Are you telling me that healing is a lesser role then and requires LESS skills to play?
Anna is a snipe healer and works perfectly, why don't have that?
If you don't aim, you are bad.
Either aiming is fun, or it isn't.
Either aiming is a great way to add "skill" or "challenge", or it isn't.
These things aren't and can't be situational based on if you are playing offense or defense.
If your healer can't aim in an action combat game, you should all fail.
It isnt a childish argument at all, as you have suggested. It is a perfectly valid and reasonable point.
Either aiming is good, or aiming is not good.
This is actually a troll from people that only want tab gameplay, guess im not surprised this is coming from you.
Obviously it is more than tab that is actually brain dead easy mode. That doesn't mean you need to add difficulty to supporting your team.
A persons skill and difficulty to avoid does not mean that difficulty should be scaling with people trying to support them. This is actually a brain dead argument and why heals are aoe or they do smart healing in games.
This is not how balance works.
You are literarily being childish you either whine about tab or whine about trackers
Clearly aiming is good and far more fun to play. Doesn't mean you create balance issues with healing and support type skills. That is not the purpose of action combat to make supports have a harder time.
Go play overwatch then if you don't want to use your brain and actually think or understand. If you want to think and understand things will make sense.
While *I* plan to mostly use tab, I absolutely want action combat to be as good as it can be.
This is just more of the same of your usual bullshit. I am all for as much variation as the game can have, you are all for only wanting it to be how you want it to be.
If Ashes has both action and tab offense, it should have both action and tab defense. Any player should then be able to pick how they want to build their character within that.
If you can't handle action based defense builds and would prefer tab based, you should absolutely be able to have at it. I'm in no way trying to stop you - yet you are trying to stop people like Azherae from having their preferred action based healer.
Again, more of your same bullshit - arguing that Ashes should be only about you.
New World seemed to do a pretty good job of this by introducing a party and zerg healing mode. Also this is supposed to be a hybrid system game, where you can switch to tab if you need to, no one here is arguing for full action, we just want the option.
Only Bs I'm smelling is from you right now, when did I say I can't handle something. This has nothing to do with what someone can handle but general balance around the game and what people have done in the past with healing in action side of mmorpgs.
As usual you are trying to be manipulative, clear as day in this post. This is why you are someone that can not be trusted, you talk of BS but that is your own aura following you.
No one has tried to stop anything, that is you trying to spin a false narrative because that is all you can do is to spin your points. 24/7.
As usual people should not believe or trust you, or you need to start throwing some respect on my name and reading my points and understanding my view point so you don't make bad take after bad take.
New world healing is extremely broken.
Besides the broken part it has aoe, and targeted healing which is expected.
So the first or maybe the only problem is the “risk vs reward” or say "action mode less depend on RNG than tab mode" because it's the foundation of why we are talking about these topics at least to me, should it expend to the level of “tab mode vs action mode” is another “risk vs reward” in Ashes of Creation, or should it just stay at the level “target oriented skill vs action oriented skill”.
↓Good youtube channel to learn things about creating games.↓
Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw
Liked Ana on OW but... while i love heal in mmorpg clearly would be a big no... (just ot clarify what i would prefer for AoC, even if the game suddenly swich to a total action system)
You are perfectly right, the difference between heal and damages is that a big dragon is easier to aim than a small ally... small ally... and a heal failed is a bigger problem than a hit failed.
BUT you know how he plays after so many hours together, helping you to predict, and not to say about rules, or simply discussion to improve the global teamplay, which include "how to make healer's work easier"
in a high skill logic (argument from "action enjoyers" being "no action = less skill needed" ) you are so extremly right.
We don't know how the healings cast will be long, how many health point it will give, how many mana it will cost.
You can do a harder healing work (thru aiming so) with a bigger healing done per spell... In fact lets get even deeper :
Healer are a rare role but absolutely mandatory. As said before, a dragon is easier to hit, than a small ally (so easier to aim as DPS than as healer)... why not have different spells, from large AE to small one and even direct aim healing, the easier they are to use, the lower their HPM and HPS is.
So if you have hard time hitting your ally with your heals, use the largest one, but will need to spam it, or if there is no problem, you will mostly use the small AE/direct aim one, which will allow you to have high mana efficiency. Better healers are rewarded for their skills while the low skill dude can still do easy content with friends.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things like that and it will work within reason. But the point is no one is generally playing a action game and saying there can't be targeted heals. People wouldn't have a issue with that.
People have a issue thing with the DPS if it is targeted and they can't do anything to avoid it and don't have that push and pull feeling of pressure.
So there is nothing wrong with targeted healing in a action game because healing isn't really thought of in more of a strategic way. It is just use aoe heal or smart heal and easy. Because it isn't thought of as much in a action stylish game people won't have a issue with targeted healing as they are more indifferent to it.
We know that there will be Tab Target Heals, but it's not as if Action Style games normally have a lot more 'Lock On' target heals. So the question I have is why it's 'balanced' or not? Even if healing and buffing is supposed to be cooperative, the opponent being able to affect it to mess with the healing is often exactly the point.
Action Games with a lot of Tab Target healing often end up adding abilities to nerf the Healing's effect instead of 'making the Healer's role harder', because of some reason, right? Usually because the 'basic heal' is 'Tab Targeted'.
Just apply the same reason to Ranger. The opponent 'wanting to do something to throw off the Healer's aim on that Healer's ally' isn't much different from 'the opponent wanting to do something to throw off the Fighter's aim against them'. It's balanced that way because of convention, which we can move past.
If your point is that less people will play Healers if it is like that, because it's hard, then that's the same reason we should have Tab Target Basic Shots for Rangers. We want more people to be able to play Rangers too. All the same problems with balance apply on both sides.
The short version is that you 'shouldn't'.
The introductory class is almost always 'weak' for balance purposes, or 'overpowered' because you don't have to work as hard for results.
There should be a whole introductory PERIOD.
There's also a different factor to this which HAS been solved before in a lot of games. Gamers with NO previous gaming skills will always struggle in PvP games, so you need to teach them differently. Gamers with skills from other games should have 'a class or character that somewhat parallels those games' to give them a 'head start in understanding' relative to others.
This is actually a good argument for why we 'shouldn't' need a Tab-Target Ranger as MUCH, because many of the people who would think "I want to play Ranger" would have been playing games where they already had to do all the 'Action Combat' parts.
It's also a good argument for why Mag's point of view is correct. The reason Healing 'should be easy and cooperative' is 'because it's often been easy and cooperative'. But this matters only if you 'only want a lot of Healers from previous games like that'. Answer to that is probably yes.
Healing is delicate balance and depending on the content healing can become broken making content around healers very easy and necessary with the amount of healing done. On the other end with difficult content and their plans for healing there can be certain factor that could have healing cause some serious issues with healing not being as effective as planned under certain circumstances, mostly in tune with raids.
That is a balance I wouldn't be aware of at the same time for how it will feel until a lot more of the kit is shown in more of a content test.
I also wouldn't expect clerics to be zooming around the map as i doubt they will be nearly as mobile else that could potentially cause of balancing issues in contrast with the strength of their heals. Making it less effective for targeted heals in a pve sense.
In more pvp this is the issue with a person using their movement to avoid attacks while also indirectly avoiding heals as well if they are aim based. A players skill should not also affect them in a bad way from being able to receive healing if they are within range of the heal. That in itself feels a bit backwards design and why some action mmorpgs have went with aoe healing or added targeted healing.
As i said earlier no one is saying no action healing, and also no one is saying no targeted healing even more so when it comes to action mmorpgs. There is nothing wrong with targeted heals with action combat. With Noaani trying to say all aiming is bad if not every element is good which is just manipulative to me.
This and it being fun are two different things.
That's just synergy though. It already happens with AoE heals unless they are so huge as to be skill-less.
If your movement takes you out of the AoE or lingering heal zone, that's very similar. For this to not happen, the game would have to have limited movement.
I think I've maybe shared the concept of 'Mobile Healer who can't target themselves with their big heal' before, to you. That's the 'standard' balance system used by Action Games I play. It's so common that I don't feel like people would have TOO much trouble with it.
I don't disagree with you overall, but I feel you can't really say 'difficult content might be a problem if healing isn't as effective' and then add difficult CC skillshots/debuffs too. On the other hand, apparently many people DID find WildStar raiding too difficult...
Its just my thoughts at the end of the day we won't fully know until we can do the content and see the skills. I can be wrong on some stuff but its just my thought on trying to under stand all the pieces and how things will potentially work together and issues that can come up.
Action based healing feels a lot more in its infancy in ways to explore and solve problems compared to other elements.
Sure, I could have used the more formal indefinite pronoun "one", or the less formal "someone", but I honestly didn't think anyone other than a narcissist would think a comment about general game discussion and options available to all players would actually be a comment specifically about them.
That said, as a non-professional opinion, that actually seems to fit. You are always saying that your way is the only way, and that things others want shouldn't be included.
It actually does seem to fit quite well, honestly. Several discussions with you suddenly make a lot more sense.
Naa fits in line since you talk a lot of crap and have no respect as you have said to me before. So actually fits in line with me expecting you to do insults and/or calling people kids online.
100% figured it be no different because its my usual interactions with you.