I am not here to fall for the baby-level mind traps set up by people who pursue regression and undoubtedly hate themselves with passion.
I'm not sure what mind traps you are talking about here.
If your position is well considered, others pointing out basically anything at all about it should be easy for you to rebuff.
From my perspective, you are saying that Ashes doesn't have gameplay for healers that you find enjoyable, yet you can't point to any game that has healer gameplay you enjoy, yet further you still seem to insist that healers are the correct role for you to play.
Again from my perspective, this means your perspective here isn't just a house of cards, it is a house of cards without the foundation layer - just sort of hovering in the air with no reason at all for existing in the state it is in.
As a sidenote, I don't think this is how most games treat the term "global cooldown". [...] So I think if we're going to bring up this term again at all, I think we have to describe the effect we're talking about more specifically."
I am pointing out that you're jumping back-and-forth because of the reasons I have listed.
The use of the term "GCD" had nothing to do with that. You're the one who keeps bringing that up. I made the sidenote at all because the term had recently often been mentioned before in this thread and others in relation to AoC skill design, and I wanted to help avoid future confusion.
You have all the space you'd need to advance the significant discussion points from any of their facettes that actually matter to the people in this thread.
Not to mention the pretense reeking of foul intent.
I didn't like where our initial interaction led (presumably because I dared to object to that "forcing you to use AoE heal for single target" claim, and later question your experience with a certain type of healer gameplay?), so I'm trying a more understanding/non-hostile approach. If that's manipulative or underhanded to you, then by your standards, all communication is manipulative, and you might as well come to terms with it.
The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
I am not here to fall for the baby-level mind traps set up by people who pursue regression and undoubtedly hate themselves with passion.
I'm not sure what mind traps you are talking about here.
I never tried to discuss GCDs outside of the scope of that comment. And I don't care if there are GCDs in Ashes of Creation. Yet, I am being accussed by someone who is allegedly trying to reason with me that it is me who jumps back-and-forth. Not to mention the pretense reeking of foul intent. My lack of confidence saddens him so much because my ideas are so insightful. If only I could continue to engage with him for no reason other than to explain to the people who don't argue with me my thoughts. What a noble cause! I should be interested in leading pointless discussions because a person on the internet told me so. I don't think it is a very reasonable thing to do.
Actually, the whole discussion about GCD seems to have come from that poster clarifying what the term means in general. They were correct in doing so, as even if the term is misused in one game, that doesnt mean that misuse should be taken to other games.
You may well have been correct in terms of how GCD is used in the game you were talking about (even if the term is used incorrectly in that game), but they were still correct in stating the generally correct use of the term.
As a point of clarification, GCD is GLOBAL cooldown. If you have one for attacks and one for heals, it isnt global. A better term for that would be offensive cooldown and healing cooldown (OCD and HCD). Still not saying you are wrong in stating how the term is used in the game in question, just stating that the term is very obviously used incorrectly in that game, if the GCD in question is not in fact global.
However, the comments about the GCD were stated as being an aside, it is not an issue to do with your main point. As such, you have no need to discuss it.
If any of this is true then take it upon yourself to develop the idea further.
Why would we develop your idea for you? The only reason I described what I would've preferred was because you didn't address any of my concerns with your original idea. Instead you were just happy that a person who disagrees with you was disagreeing with you. And Lae had the same point.
You suggested a thing. People criticized your suggestion. But instead of explaining your suggestion better or arguing against the criticisms you dodged all of that and did the very thing you accuse me of doing - find every train of thought that was not about your suggestion and argued against that. This comes off as a huge indicator of lack of confidence in your own idea or lack of understanding of how it could be implemented in the game.
Seeing him utilize every train of thought to find something to argue against a suggestion convinced me he is capable of it if he redirects his energy in the opposite direction.
The best way to flesh out a basic idea in to something that actually could work is to have people with different perspectives point out flaws in it, and then work with them on ways to plug those flaws.
We've all done that a number of times on these forums. While none of the ideas have been directly bought in to the game (that we know of) various aspects of the problem solving have assisted Intrepid internally a number of times.
That problem solving is far more useful (and far more enjoyable) than the initial idea by itself. It is something anyone posting any ideas here should embrace.
He is not entering the discussion with the intent to let anyone suggest a thing different from Lineage 2.
You probably missed it behind your glee of the fact that I disagreed with you, but the reason for my disagreement was literally the fact that L2 had a system that was really close to your suggestion. I disliked it there and didn't want it in Ashes, especially in the context of almost no TPing here.
I then proceeded to find a middle ground, where your preferred "respawn gameplay" was still implemented, but wasn't as OP and as pvp-breaking as what I experienced in L2.
You instead started arguing about what constitutes "teleportation" and went off about "child-like mind traps". Who's exactly entering the discussion with bad intentions here?
It does not indeed. Doesn't get any more obvious that any discussion with you will just devolve into avoidance of the main topic and unacceptance of any kind of critique. This has been your reaction with pretty much any member of the 2 threads that hasn't just outright agreed with you.
You're the only correct one, while we're all trying to regress the game, mind trap you or whatever else you can come up with as justification for not addressing the critiques that were presented against your statements.
I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
Imo that's a group problem rather than a game's one Until proven otherwise, I'd prefer to believe that groups w/o healers will just die, because Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1] https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty
I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
Imo that's a group problem rather than a game's one Until proven otherwise, I'd prefer to believe that groups w/o healers will just die, because Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1] https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty
Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.
I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
Imo that's a group problem rather than a game's one Until proven otherwise, I'd prefer to believe that groups w/o healers will just die, because Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1] https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty
Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.
That’s exactly why I’m gonna play Wildblade. I hate not being self sufficient.
Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.
And it's been said before that clerics can't be replaced when it comes to properly difficult content. L2 had a tank/healing combo on one of the summons. And while it definitely helped when you had 0 healers, your content availability would be on the floor, because majority of group content would require healers.
And L2 was most likely easier than what Ashes plans to be. But even outside of that, as I said before, we've got no info on respawn points locations, so cleric respawns might not even be all that OP. And you could always balance them with limited usages or high costs (monetary or resource or mana or cd). And don't forget that you'd still have to die to use that respawn point, so you already paid price to utilize the benefits of a custom return location.
Bard lost healing, summoner has healing anyway. Cleric secondary will boost summoner healing and the summoner summon would be a healing summon. I think that's a lot of healing.
Back on to Enchanter I hope my Simmons will be:
Certain summoners may only be able to summon effects and/or temporary energies.[20]
Bard lost healing, summoner has healing anyway. Cleric secondary will boost summoner healing and the summoner summon would be a healing summon. I think that's a lot of healing.
It will come down to the summon's ability pool. Healers will have a ton of variety and tools and all that good stuff. I somehow doubt that the summon will somehow have the same amount of stuff. Obviously we'll have to see how far Intrepid take it, but for now I'll stick with "parties will need clerics if they want to survive the open world".
I doubt a healing summon will have the same skill as an actual healer. It would be too overpowered. Yet, cleric won't be a solo healer either from what I've seen.
People wanting Ashes of Creation to remain in a regressive state and expecting a logical conversation when feedback is being submitted is a bizarre and other-worldly concept for me. How are we going to agree on virtually anything when we have taken fundamentally opposite stances?
What in your opinion would be the "progressive" way then? Make everyone do everything? Make every class completely self-sufficient? Make content so damn easy that any party setup at any amount of members can always clear it?
So far your only suggestion for the game's design has been cleric respawns. It came from your dislike of the entire cleric archetype in pretty much all other mmos.
Obviously we're all here too old for you and have regressive views. But could you present us with a progressive one so that we could at least understand where you want the genre to progress to? Cause so far I've not seen that.
There is nothing logical in saying that regression is the point of someone else's dream and life's work.
Yes, there's no logic in subjective preferences. But it just so happens that Steven prefers older mmo designs. And quite a lot of us do too, which is why we're here and are following the game. And some of us want to keep the game on its current track rather than turning it into the, yet another, basic new generation mmo.
No one wants real regression in terms of progress. Only regression in terms of content. I'm quite shocked I backed the game when the combat had quick time events but I'm pleased I did due to the journey so far.
See, of course I am going to dodge hatred camouflaged as criticism out of concern for the game's balance. He has miscontructed what I am doing because he is not looking to contribute to an idea that could be good for Ashes of Creation in any way. It benefits him to see the bad in anything he reads that doesn't encourage stagnation.
You see, right now, you have essentially poisoned the well as to anything you have to say or suggest. You've complained about the game for no apparent reason, not been able to back up what exactly it is you want to see.
To most people here, all this suggests is that you are unwilling to participate in an actual discussion. It is obvious you are up for participating in a general bitchfight - but there is no reason to assume you want to actually get in to a discussion.
That is a situation you need to fix before people take you all that seriously as someone to actually discuss with.
That's why reasoning is so impossible. Anything I say will get warped and twisted the same way your minds are.
Our minds are warped, yet you seem to be the only one here who constantly thinks that everyone else here is out to get you or to fuck you over or to trick you or whatever else. Riiiight
Comments
< "baby-level mind traps"
I love progress to a fault. I just also know that not everything that's possible should, or at least needs to, be done. (Especially not by everyone!)
I'm not sure what mind traps you are talking about here.
If your position is well considered, others pointing out basically anything at all about it should be easy for you to rebuff.
From my perspective, you are saying that Ashes doesn't have gameplay for healers that you find enjoyable, yet you can't point to any game that has healer gameplay you enjoy, yet further you still seem to insist that healers are the correct role for you to play.
Again from my perspective, this means your perspective here isn't just a house of cards, it is a house of cards without the foundation layer - just sort of hovering in the air with no reason at all for existing in the state it is in.
The use of the term "GCD" had nothing to do with that. You're the one who keeps bringing that up. I made the sidenote at all because the term had recently often been mentioned before in this thread and others in relation to AoC skill design, and I wanted to help avoid future confusion.
You have all the space you'd need to advance the significant discussion points from any of their facettes that actually matter to the people in this thread.
I didn't like where our initial interaction led (presumably because I dared to object to that "forcing you to use AoE heal for single target" claim, and later question your experience with a certain type of healer gameplay?), so I'm trying a more understanding/non-hostile approach. If that's manipulative or underhanded to you, then by your standards, all communication is manipulative, and you might as well come to terms with it.
Actually, the whole discussion about GCD seems to have come from that poster clarifying what the term means in general. They were correct in doing so, as even if the term is misused in one game, that doesnt mean that misuse should be taken to other games.
You may well have been correct in terms of how GCD is used in the game you were talking about (even if the term is used incorrectly in that game), but they were still correct in stating the generally correct use of the term.
As a point of clarification, GCD is GLOBAL cooldown. If you have one for attacks and one for heals, it isnt global. A better term for that would be offensive cooldown and healing cooldown (OCD and HCD). Still not saying you are wrong in stating how the term is used in the game in question, just stating that the term is very obviously used incorrectly in that game, if the GCD in question is not in fact global.
However, the comments about the GCD were stated as being an aside, it is not an issue to do with your main point. As such, you have no need to discuss it.
You suggested a thing. People criticized your suggestion. But instead of explaining your suggestion better or arguing against the criticisms you dodged all of that and did the very thing you accuse me of doing - find every train of thought that was not about your suggestion and argued against that. This comes off as a huge indicator of lack of confidence in your own idea or lack of understanding of how it could be implemented in the game.
The best way to flesh out a basic idea in to something that actually could work is to have people with different perspectives point out flaws in it, and then work with them on ways to plug those flaws.
We've all done that a number of times on these forums. While none of the ideas have been directly bought in to the game (that we know of) various aspects of the problem solving have assisted Intrepid internally a number of times.
That problem solving is far more useful (and far more enjoyable) than the initial idea by itself. It is something anyone posting any ideas here should embrace.
I then proceeded to find a middle ground, where your preferred "respawn gameplay" was still implemented, but wasn't as OP and as pvp-breaking as what I experienced in L2.
You instead started arguing about what constitutes "teleportation" and went off about "child-like mind traps". Who's exactly entering the discussion with bad intentions here?
You're the only correct one, while we're all trying to regress the game, mind trap you or whatever else you can come up with as justification for not addressing the critiques that were presented against your statements.
At least some of us want great combat, that’s a plus.
Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1]
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty
Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.
That’s exactly why I’m gonna play Wildblade. I hate not being self sufficient.
And L2 was most likely easier than what Ashes plans to be. But even outside of that, as I said before, we've got no info on respawn points locations, so cleric respawns might not even be all that OP. And you could always balance them with limited usages or high costs (monetary or resource or mana or cd). And don't forget that you'd still have to die to use that respawn point, so you already paid price to utilize the benefits of a custom return location.
Back on to Enchanter I hope my Simmons will be:
Certain summoners may only be able to summon effects and/or temporary energies.[20]
So far your only suggestion for the game's design has been cleric respawns. It came from your dislike of the entire cleric archetype in pretty much all other mmos.
Obviously we're all here too old for you and have regressive views. But could you present us with a progressive one so that we could at least understand where you want the genre to progress to? Cause so far I've not seen that.
Yes, there's no logic in subjective preferences. But it just so happens that Steven prefers older mmo designs. And quite a lot of us do too, which is why we're here and are following the game. And some of us want to keep the game on its current track rather than turning it into the, yet another, basic new generation mmo.
You see, right now, you have essentially poisoned the well as to anything you have to say or suggest. You've complained about the game for no apparent reason, not been able to back up what exactly it is you want to see.
To most people here, all this suggests is that you are unwilling to participate in an actual discussion. It is obvious you are up for participating in a general bitchfight - but there is no reason to assume you want to actually get in to a discussion.
That is a situation you need to fix before people take you all that seriously as someone to actually discuss with.