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lets talk about the state of the game and combat

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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Resurrection is a skill in Ashes of Creation to revive from the dead. You have changed the name of Respawn to Resurrection which has caused the issue.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well, you know my stance on resurrection which is why I back resurrection scrolls. However, you claimed resurrection was fast travel to which I still say it is not.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah, resurrection is a tactical intervention performed often by Captains, Conquerors or Healers. It represent rallies into a fight and returns players to the battle. There are no issues around the concept. The only issues is when its referenced to be fast travel. As it stands right now, resurrection doesn't clear death penalties either so its a poor substitute for not dying in the first place.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    It was you who created a thread asking for Scrolls of Resurrection, weren't you? Why are you arguing with me about teleport?
    Rez scroll pops you up directly where you were lying dead. It has nothing to do with teleportation.

    Basic resurrection action will pop you up in some different place, yes, but at that point you would've "paid" for that "teleport" with your loot. Your suggestion allows a whole party of people make a controlled teleport at the price of a single controlled death. People will minimize their losses by trading any droppables away on the lamb and suiciding after that.

    When the whole party has to die (as would be the case with a successful ambush by an enemy) - you wouldn't have anyone to trade your loot to, so you'd "pay" for the "teleport". And that's not even considering the scale of the difference between a single death penalty and 8 penalties.

    But on the topic of teleportation through resurrection, I've brought it up years ago at this point, in the context of corruption balancing values. If it was up to me, I'd minimize the "teleport" distance as much as possible, to not only prevent the very abuse we're discussing, but to also allow for quicker retaliation against a PKer or an attacking enemy party. But nowhere in that discussion did I suggest teleporting the entire party w/o them dying. Because, as I've said already, I've played with such a mechanic and consider it utter trash.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Fast travel is travelling large distances in some manner considered to be fast. Like a Blimp, Dragon, Griffon, Hearth Stone, Teleport etc.

    Edit: Also, if you don't have the relocation on the resurrection skill then you would be unable to get people out of fires, lava, water, aggro ranges etc.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No, I don't think you go back to the node all the time. There are respawn pads in the open world.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    That's exactly what resurrection is doing. If nobody resurrects you the game will move your character back to your node. Resurrection bypasses that game action and summons your character next to the caster.

    This guy is making a argument while completely ignore all design elements on why you wouldn't want to die. And this is the guy that says devs wont change anything in a game they are working on. This person has to be on the good stuff.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    No, I don't think you go back to the node all the time. There are respawn pads in the open world.

    Honestly i think you should go back to node, it is a pretty big punishment to have to start there again in a game that is pvx where pvp can happen to get loot.

    The guy you are arguing with based on his past log i feel doesn't do pvp. So he doesn't understand the downsides to death even if he is ignoring the mature xp debt. But he ignores the debt since he is use to other games where leveling takes no time, compared to hundreds of hours..
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't see going back to node as a big punishment though...also corrupted players need the res pads outside nodes.

    I think the punishment is worse if your relocated to a nearby res pad and might have to fight further to get your loot back to base.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't see going back to node as a big punishment though...also corrupted players need the res pads outside nodes.

    I think the punishment is worse if your relocated to a nearby res pad and might have to fight further to get your loot back to base.

    If your group is trying to kill a boss or farm a dungeon and you go only to be wiped by players and have to walk back multiple times. You will be more inclined to give up and go to another spot. That time investment is big and adds up.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah I do understand your point but what about when you are on the opposite continent and you die in contestation? Bit of a bad issue to be teleported back to your node then in my opinion.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Honestly i think you should go back to node, it is a pretty big punishment to have to start there again in a game that is pvx where pvp can happen to get loot.

    The guy you are arguing with based on his past log i feel doesn't do pvp. So he doesn't understand the downsides to death even if he is ignoring the mature xp debt. But he ignores the debt since he is use to other games where leveling takes no time, compared to hundreds of hours..
    Even outside the potential teleportation abuse, I think this would lead to smaller amount of pvp, while also removing people from the game because running back would be considered a chore.

    I think there could be stages of respawn points. If you die in pvp once - you get the closest possible point. If you die in pve - you get "entrance" of your current location. If you die from a PKer - you get closest and entrance. If you die from a player (purple or red), say, 3 times within a short period of time (10 min?) - you get those two options and the option to respawn at the nearest node center.

    This way you could come back for a revenge pretty fast (be it a pvp or a PKer one), while also getting a chance to run away from an annoying pursuer a bit easier. Pve death bringing you to the entrance would be justified by "you weren't good enough for that spot" reasoning and would allow you to reposition to an easier location. And the node respawn would come with a price of several deaths, so people wouldn't think of abusing it all that much.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm against totems really. Not the idea per say, depends what the fountains look like and whether the devs agree. I don't think fountains are a cleric remit though...more of a summoner remit.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nik isn't the only dude who wants Resurrection scrolls. It has been explained both RS' and Group Teleport were in l2 and we want the better stuff from l2, not the worst.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    My point is that it already is in the game and everyone has access to it through items, requested by NiKr the person who is talking to me about TP abuse and going on about how it will exist only if a Scientific Metropolis has been developed.

    I know that Steven has said that fast travel will be possible only through Scientific Metropolis. But that doesn't change the fact that Resurrection is a fast-travel type of utility in the open world.
    We have no real idea of how the respawn points will work, where they'll be located or how they'll be balanced. This was exactly why my previous discussion on this topic didn't get far. I didn't want to speculate or theorize about smth that we have no damn clue about. But you obviously don't have that issue, as has been evident from your arguments in these past few threads.

    Yes, effectively a respawn can be considered a teleport and a rez can be considered a reverse teleport, but their abusability would only matter if we did in fact only respawned in node centers. But if the game has a better respawn point design - resurrection would not be an abusable mechanic.

    Though again, it would not be abusable as long as every person pays for it with death penalties. Your suggestion for a full party teleport still ruins pvp, lets the party move to a set location (that is not game's default) - all at the price of a single controlled purple death penalty. That is abusable imo.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well, we go through these loops each month. The problem is text can be misconstrued and emotions can run high. We offer input and advice in good faith. Just as your ideas are stated, our ideas are stated. Sometimes, improvements are made and sometimes improvements aren't. However, if you are not aware of the death penalties I advise you check the wiki.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    Yeah, I know he is not the only one. And most definitely these items were going to be implemented. But it's hypocritical to bash my idea for improved Cleric gameplay on the basis of TP being only for Scientific Metropolis when he requested a point-to-click item which functions as a teleport.
    If your idea was just "cleric can setup a respawn point within a certain distance and the party members can choose that point when they respawn" - I'd have almost no issues with that. Hell, I'd probably even like it, because that would make pvp way better. But that wasn't your suggestion. And when I brought up issues with your suggestion, you didn't try to argue against those issues or change your suggestion. You just started arguing semantics of the word "teleportation".
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    People will die all the time. Hopefully the PvE will be hard and the PvP will be sick. Steven and the devs have removed death penalties from a lot of pvp events which has been a boon. The question isn't whether people will die, the question is how will the people die? Most will turn purple but some will remain green. I'm not sure whether a moveable respawn point would be too overpowered or not.
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