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lets talk about the state of the game and combat

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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    While none of the ideas have been directly bought in to the game (that we know of)
    Cannot wait for their dev vlogs after the game releases. It'll either be a crushing blow to my ego or a really strong uplift B)
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's good to get stuff out of your system. There's a certain temptation to off load aspects but more debate would occur the way the thread has gone.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    He is not entering the discussion with the intent to let anyone suggest a thing different from Lineage 2.
    You probably missed it behind your glee of the fact that I disagreed with you, but the reason for my disagreement was literally the fact that L2 had a system that was really close to your suggestion. I disliked it there and didn't want it in Ashes, especially in the context of almost no TPing here.

    I then proceeded to find a middle ground, where your preferred "respawn gameplay" was still implemented, but wasn't as OP and as pvp-breaking as what I experienced in L2.

    You instead started arguing about what constitutes "teleportation" and went off about "child-like mind traps". Who's exactly entering the discussion with bad intentions here?
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    :D
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    Doesn't get any more obvious than this.
    It does not indeed. Doesn't get any more obvious that any discussion with you will just devolve into avoidance of the main topic and unacceptance of any kind of critique. This has been your reaction with pretty much any member of the 2 threads that hasn't just outright agreed with you.

    You're the only correct one, while we're all trying to regress the game, mind trap you or whatever else you can come up with as justification for not addressing the critiques that were presented against your statements.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
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  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This thread is something else.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    At least the challenges have been civil...
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  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    At least the challenges have been civil...

    At least some of us want great combat, that’s a plus.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
    Imo that's a group problem rather than a game's one :) Until proven otherwise, I'd prefer to believe that groups w/o healers will just die, because
    Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah, I think there's great promise. I loose sight with the ebb and flow sometimes but the general flow seems to be positive overall.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
    Imo that's a group problem rather than a game's one :) Until proven otherwise, I'd prefer to believe that groups w/o healers will just die, because
    Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty

    Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.
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  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think balance would be an issue if cleric can place respawn points. Not every group will have a cleric.
    Imo that's a group problem rather than a game's one :) Until proven otherwise, I'd prefer to believe that groups w/o healers will just die, because
    Ashes of Creation will be on the higher side of difficulty when it comes to engagements.[1]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Game_difficulty

    Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.

    That’s exactly why I’m gonna play Wildblade. I hate not being self sufficient.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Literally, summoner can replace any other class according to the wiki. Dependant on secondary of course. Not sure if Enchanter will buff or dps though.
    And it's been said before that clerics can't be replaced when it comes to properly difficult content. L2 had a tank/healing combo on one of the summons. And while it definitely helped when you had 0 healers, your content availability would be on the floor, because majority of group content would require healers.

    And L2 was most likely easier than what Ashes plans to be. But even outside of that, as I said before, we've got no info on respawn points locations, so cleric respawns might not even be all that OP. And you could always balance them with limited usages or high costs (monetary or resource or mana or cd). And don't forget that you'd still have to die to use that respawn point, so you already paid price to utilize the benefits of a custom return location.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Bard lost healing, summoner has healing anyway. Cleric secondary will boost summoner healing and the summoner summon would be a healing summon. I think that's a lot of healing.

    Back on to Enchanter I hope my Simmons will be:

    Certain summoners may only be able to summon effects and/or temporary energies.[20]
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Bard lost healing, summoner has healing anyway. Cleric secondary will boost summoner healing and the summoner summon would be a healing summon. I think that's a lot of healing.
    It will come down to the summon's ability pool. Healers will have a ton of variety and tools and all that good stuff. I somehow doubt that the summon will somehow have the same amount of stuff. Obviously we'll have to see how far Intrepid take it, but for now I'll stick with "parties will need clerics if they want to survive the open world".
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I doubt a healing summon will have the same skill as an actual healer. It would be too overpowered. Yet, cleric won't be a solo healer either from what I've seen.
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    People wanting Ashes of Creation to remain in a regressive state and expecting a logical conversation when feedback is being submitted is a bizarre and other-worldly concept for me. How are we going to agree on virtually anything when we have taken fundamentally opposite stances?
    What in your opinion would be the "progressive" way then? Make everyone do everything? Make every class completely self-sufficient? Make content so damn easy that any party setup at any amount of members can always clear it?

    So far your only suggestion for the game's design has been cleric respawns. It came from your dislike of the entire cleric archetype in pretty much all other mmos.

    Obviously we're all here too old for you and have regressive views. But could you present us with a progressive one so that we could at least understand where you want the genre to progress to? Cause so far I've not seen that.
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    There is nothing logical in saying that regression is the point of someone else's dream and life's work.
    Yes, there's no logic in subjective preferences. But it just so happens that Steven prefers older mmo designs. And quite a lot of us do too, which is why we're here and are following the game. And some of us want to keep the game on its current track rather than turning it into the, yet another, basic new generation mmo.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No one wants real regression in terms of progress. Only regression in terms of content. I'm quite shocked I backed the game when the combat had quick time events but I'm pleased I did due to the journey so far.
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    So just another avoidance rather than answering the question. Got it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    See, of course I am going to dodge hatred camouflaged as criticism out of concern for the game's balance. He has miscontructed what I am doing because he is not looking to contribute to an idea that could be good for Ashes of Creation in any way. It benefits him to see the bad in anything he reads that doesn't encourage stagnation.

    You see, right now, you have essentially poisoned the well as to anything you have to say or suggest. You've complained about the game for no apparent reason, not been able to back up what exactly it is you want to see.

    To most people here, all this suggests is that you are unwilling to participate in an actual discussion. It is obvious you are up for participating in a general bitchfight - but there is no reason to assume you want to actually get in to a discussion.

    That is a situation you need to fix before people take you all that seriously as someone to actually discuss with.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2023
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    That's why reasoning is so impossible. Anything I say will get warped and twisted the same way your minds are.
    Our minds are warped, yet you seem to be the only one here who constantly thinks that everyone else here is out to get you or to fuck you over or to trick you or whatever else. Riiiight
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2023
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    See, of course I am going to dodge hatred camouflaged as criticism out of concern for the game's balance. He has miscontructed what I am doing because he is not looking to contribute to an idea that could be good for Ashes of Creation in any way. It benefits him to see the bad in anything he reads that doesn't encourage stagnation.

    You see, right now, you have essentially poisoned the well as to anything you have to say or suggest. You've complained about the game for no apparent reason, not been able to back up what exactly it is you want to see.

    To most people here, all this suggests is that you are unwilling to participate in an actual discussion. It is obvious you are up for participating in a general bitchfight - but there is no reason to assume you want to actually get in to a discussion.

    That is a situation you need to fix before people take you all that seriously as someone to actually discuss with.

    That's why reasoning is so impossible. Anything I say will get warped and twisted the same way your minds are.

    It isn't impossible, you just need to take a few steps back and start engaging people properly.

    Whether you agree with this or not, it is your comments that have led others to assume you aren't willing to get in to a discussion. In order to resolve that (assuming this is what you want to do), you need to backtrack and have those discussions people feel you have avoided.

    When you have those discussions others have wanted to get in to with you on a topic you have wanted to initially bring up, then they will be willing to engage with you in new discussions.

    I'm not making any comments as to whether this is good or bad, wrong or right - it just is what it is.

    The ball is kind of in your court here - you just need to know what to do with it.
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