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Corruption/pvp

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Comments

  • NiKr wrote: »
    Your reasoning doesn't do any justice to my perspective on the matter especially when you start adding up all the features for "safer" experience in the world. On their own, they sound great but when you start adding them all up, it does start to feel like a care bear system and design. Oh well :smile: lol it's just starting to sound quite less appealing. Could still be a good game for the demographic this appeals to.
    Carebearness of the game will highly depend on content design and how costly a war declaration will be. If content pretty much requires you to have a party at all (or at least most) times - you'll probably want to join a guild to have a semi-constant group of people to play with. If you're in a guild and farming something even semi-valuable - there's other people who want to do the same and will be willing to wardec your guild. At that point they'll be free to kill you at any point in any location w/o any penalties. Same goes for node wars, caravans (that you'll need to use if you want to transfer smth or play the market), open seas, sieges (that can be forced upon your node).

    Now if the content (at least the valuable one) does not require a party and/or guild war declarations cost a shitton of resources - now that would be a pretty good argument for the game being a carebear den. But both of those things will most likely get tuned and tested in later stages of alpha2, so it's hard to say either way.

    TLDR but cool :smile:
  • anyone else want to over explain?
  • hleVhleV Member
    edited May 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean. the corruption system will prevent mass murder because the killer will die and lose his gear. that's the deterrent. mass murder is probably not the valid reason to go pk, even tho idc lol
    No, that's the PK reasons the corruption system is SUPPOSED to prevent, but the way it's currently set out to be, it's going to prevent PKing for ANY reason, including the other guy being a troll, contesting resources YOU want, etc.
    li536lkxroov.png
    And there you have it, 1 measly point of corruption and you risk losing months of progress via gear drop. Carebears must love this!
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    hleV wrote: »
    And there you have it, 1 measly point of corruption and you risk losing months of progress via gear drop. Carebears must love this!

    To be fair, if you have months of progression invested in to one gear slot, you probably dont need that farming spot.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    considering node sieges are a whole political declaration and resource thing (monthly allowance?) and with the whole flagging thing for non-combat and their handicap feature of not being abled to be cc'd with how cc works now and corruption, sounds like they kicked a bunch of pvp community members in the dick with those design changes (no not a ganking advocate).
    I imagine there will still be a good amount of pvp and wars but it sounds like they're putting a bunch of safety nets so players can just PvE more over PvP. But that's my opinion. Quite a turn off from the game for me.

    "Sanctioned" pvp systems like node sieges, guild wars, battlegrounds, arenas, open sea, and others (think the total is 9 or so dedicated pvp systems) are outside the flagging/corruption system. It is only those that get their kicks by killing others outside those systems that have a risk v reward to calculate.

    Your reasoning doesn't do any justice to my perspective on the matter especially when you start adding up all the features for "safer" experience in the world. On their own, they sound great but when you start adding them all up, it does start to feel like a care bear system and design. Oh well :smile: lol it's just starting to sound quite less appealing. Could still be a good game for the demographic this appeals to.


    This makes no sense. Fighting over objectives is one of the best way to create a good PvP system. The corruption system is what enables this game to have open-world PvP in the long run. It is not needed in PvP events like castle and node sieges.

    Not sure if I agree with this, plenty of games didn't have that and had meaningful PvP. Meaningful is subjective, it's the entertainment and fun value an individual gets out of a game.

    To some the thrill of a game is the intensive risk vs reward, kill or be killed. Kill or be stripped of all the possessions on you, full loot PvP if you will.

    Clans will create conflict, hostility, war especially when fighting over farming spots. That makes you closer to your clan and more cooperative while wanting to dominate the enemy. It's how the older mmos functioned before any of these other systems came to be.

    Meaningful may also the art of practice and getting good, being the best player you can be and being able to destroy your enemies, after all. A group is only as strong as it's weakest link, that was the case for me and a lot of the old school gamers where being good necessitated not being looted.

    Taking a castle may not be meaningful to me at all outside a good payday or redoing the server order because someone paid up. It'd be no different than the loot pinatas most games try to pass off as mobs, not that meaningful.

    But, someone could see what I find meaningful and go, "not for me". That's perfectly valid, as they may enjoy killing dragons, picking flowers, and looking pretty. I will do those things, but I will never get the same joy out of them as someone who does enjoy them.


  • hleV wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean. the corruption system will prevent mass murder because the killer will die and lose his gear. that's the deterrent. mass murder is probably not the valid reason to go pk, even tho idc lol
    No, that's the PK reasons the corruption system is SUPPOSED to prevent, but the way it's currently set out to be, it's going to prevent PKing for ANY reason, including the other guy being a troll, contesting resources YOU want, etc.
    li536lkxroov.png
    And there you have it, 1 measly point of corruption and you risk losing months of progress via gear drop. Carebears must love this!

    ah I understand what you mean now and I agree but you know, there's always ways around those people ;)
  • hleVhleV Member
    edited May 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    hleV wrote: »
    And there you have it, 1 measly point of corruption and you risk losing months of progress via gear drop. Carebears must love this!

    To be fair, if you have months of progression invested in to one gear slot, you probably dont need that farming spot.
    If you have nothing to say, then don't.

    An expensive gear piece should not be removed from you for something as trivial as low corruption, this RNG should only activate on repeated offenses where it's obvious that you have ill intent/can't control yourself. Corruption is risk vs reward, so both of them should be at a reasonably similar level (getting the other player's resources vs. avoiding death while working off corruption), gear piece drop is an extreme punishment for one PK a player has commited that one time out of frustration for getting trolled/griefed/etc. and you can bet your ass some will be quitting the game if that RNG procs on them, when it could've been avoided by designing the punishment levels better (which I still have hope will be done after testing).
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    hleV wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    hleV wrote: »
    And there you have it, 1 measly point of corruption and you risk losing months of progress via gear drop. Carebears must love this!

    To be fair, if you have months of progression invested in to one gear slot, you probably dont need that farming spot.
    If you have nothing to say, then don't.

    An expensive gear piece should not be removed from you for something as trivial as low corruption

    If you have an expensive piece of gear, you shouldnt be fighting over anything less than other expensive pieces of gear.

    If someone is farming a spot where they could perhaps farm it for a month and buy an average piece of gear, if you have expensive gear you shouldnt be fighting them over it.

    On the other hand, someone with less than average gear should be fighting that player over that spot.

    If you are fighting someone over something worth less than the value of the gear you stand to lose, you deserve to lose some of that gear.

    Do a better job at picking your fights.
  • DepravedDepraved Member
    edited May 2023
    hleV wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    hleV wrote: »
    And there you have it, 1 measly point of corruption and you risk losing months of progress via gear drop. Carebears must love this!

    To be fair, if you have months of progression invested in to one gear slot, you probably dont need that farming spot.
    If you have nothing to say, then don't.

    An expensive gear piece should not be removed from you for something as trivial as low corruption, this RNG should only activate on repeated offenses where it's obvious that you have ill intent/can't control yourself. Corruption is risk vs reward, so both of them should be at a reasonably similar level (getting the other player's resources vs. avoiding death while working off corruption), gear piece drop is an extreme punishment for one PK a player has commited that one time out of frustration for getting trolled/griefed/etc. and you can bet your ass some will be quitting the game if that RNG procs on them, when it could've been avoided by designing the punishment levels better (which I still have hope will be done after testing).

    you will probably be able to go red 3 or so times before you start dropping, then cleanse your pk count through a quest or whatever. the problem is the other person can keep coming over and over and over...

    death must carry a heavy weight such that you don't want to die over and over to the same person, even if you have no mats on you, to prevent abuse.
  • hleVhleV Member
    edited May 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    If you have an expensive piece of gear, you shouldnt be fighting over anything less than other expensive pieces of gear.

    If someone is farming a spot where they could perhaps farm it for a month and buy an average piece of gear, if you have expensive gear you shouldnt be fighting them over it.

    On the other hand, someone with less than average gear should be fighting that player over that spot.

    If you are fighting someone over something worth less than the value of the gear you stand to lose, you deserve to lose some of that gear.

    Do a better job at picking your fights.
    All you're really saying is "don't PK," instead of addressing the fact that the risk may end up hundreds of times higher than the reward, for not even grief/mass-killing, which is why the corruption system is there in the first place. If that's okay with you, then I have no interest in what else you have to say.
    Depraved wrote: »
    you will probably be able to go red 3 or so times before you start dropping
    You can proc a gear drop by committing 1 PK.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    No one forces you to go red. Red is a punishment, not risk/reward. There is no reward for going red or you would be able to stay red.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2023
    hleV wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    If you have an expensive piece of gear, you shouldnt be fighting over anything less than other expensive pieces of gear.

    If someone is farming a spot where they could perhaps farm it for a month and buy an average piece of gear, if you have expensive gear you shouldnt be fighting them over it.

    On the other hand, someone with less than average gear should be fighting that player over that spot.

    If you are fighting someone over something worth less than the value of the gear you stand to lose, you deserve to lose some of that gear.

    Do a better job at picking your fights.
    All you're really saying is "don't PK," instead of addressing the fact that the risk may end up hundreds of times higher than the reward
    Are you really saying you cant manage your own risk vs reward analysis?

    Corruption doesnt exist *only* to stop mass murdering.
  • hleV wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    If you have an expensive piece of gear, you shouldnt be fighting over anything less than other expensive pieces of gear.

    If someone is farming a spot where they could perhaps farm it for a month and buy an average piece of gear, if you have expensive gear you shouldnt be fighting them over it.

    On the other hand, someone with less than average gear should be fighting that player over that spot.

    If you are fighting someone over something worth less than the value of the gear you stand to lose, you deserve to lose some of that gear.

    Do a better job at picking your fights.
    All you're really saying is "don't PK," instead of addressing the fact that the risk may end up hundreds of times higher than the reward, for not even grief/mass-killing, which is why the corruption system is there in the first place. If that's okay with you, then I have no interest in what else you have to say.
    Depraved wrote: »
    you will probably be able to go red 3 or so times before you start dropping
    You can proc a gear drop by committing 1 PK.

    we dunno yet..maybe you will be able to pk a few times before you start dropping...
  • hleVhleV Member
    You're clueless and can't see it from the perspective of a PvPer. Sometimes you just WILL go for that one PK if some guy pissed you off/gave you a reason to. Or you won't, out of fear of gear drop RNG, and gonna hate the system for that. I swear the corruption punishment could be switched to a week/month long ban and you'd still be spouting the same nonsense: "don't PK", "nobody's forcing you to PK", blah blah blah.

    Carry on your carebear talk, I gave my thoughts on the matter and you proved to be absolutely unable to properly address my concerns.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Its not so much carebearing, its about a so called competitive pvper who wants to kill people who don't fight back...
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    hleV wrote: »
    You're clueless and can't see it from the perspective of a PvPer. Sometimes you just WILL go for that one PK if some guy pissed you off/gave you a reason to.

    Yeah, so you factor that in to your risk vs reward analysis.

    If they are really pissing you off, kill them and take any potential consequences.

    If you aren't pissed off enough yet to suffer those consequence, dont.

    That really shouldnt be hard to grasp. The point of the corruption system is to add weight to your decision to attack that player that pisses you off - all you are doing by saying it will make you think twice before attacking that player is that it is already working as intended.
  • hleVhleV Member
    Yep, still failing to grasp the point I'm making. Carry on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    hleV wrote: »
    Yep, still failing to grasp the point I'm making. Carry on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    The forums are not the place for oldschool "Your Red Your Dead" sentiments friendo, if it wasn't experienced it will never be understood. If you're looking for that super hardcore experience I can promise you that this is not the game because most of Intrepid aren't like that and really aren't about it.

    There's a lot of us from the oldschool looking at Ashes, it may not be for some of us. Just the nature of the beast, lotta 9-5 folks in the community who do not like super competitive combat, pvp, or pve.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2023
    hleV wrote: »
    Yep, still failing to grasp the point I'm making. Carry on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    The point you are making - from my understanding- is that you dont want to have the risk of losing gear for killing one player that is either in a spot you want to farm, or has pissed you off in some way.

    If that is not the point you are trying to make, then absolutely, I am not getting your point.

    On the other hand, if that is the point you are trying to make, then my above comments stand, as the point of corruption - as stated by Intrepid - is to add weight to the decision to attack a player.

    If you want to attack them you absolutely can, but Intrepid plan on making you think before you do.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Depraved wrote: »

    we dunno yet..maybe you will be able to pk a few times before you start dropping...

    One more time since people like to just pick their own info and run with it......
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  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    You're red, you're dead can still be achieved by Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters can also turn red, you just can't bounty hunt when you are red. I feel all sides of the pvp spectrum have been accounted for but so too has the pve spectrum somewhat. I don't even consider the whole parameter as risk/reward because the notion of you're red, you're dead isn't so much about the risk or the reward but the feeling of power and control. The corruption system does take away some power and control which isn't conducive to some forms of gameplay.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    You're red, you're dead can still be achieved by Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters can also turn red, you just can't bounty hunt when you are red. I feel all sides of the pvp spectrum have been accounted for but so too has the pve spectrum somewhat. I don't even consider the whole parameter as risk/reward because the notion of you're red, you're dead isn't so much about the risk or the reward but the feeling of power and control. The corruption system does take away some power and control which isn't conducive to some forms of gameplay.

    We won’t see bounty hunting if the system completely deters PvP interactions.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Clans will create conflict, hostility, war especially when fighting over farming spots. That makes you closer to your clan and more cooperative while wanting to dominate the enemy. It's how the older mmos functioned before any of these other systems came to be.

    A farming spot is an objective in my understanding. It's not as complex as an objective in larger PvP events.

    They certainly were when it came to xp and drops back in the day.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    You're red, you're dead can still be achieved by Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters can also turn red, you just can't bounty hunt when you are red. I feel all sides of the pvp spectrum have been accounted for but so too has the pve spectrum somewhat. I don't even consider the whole parameter as risk/reward because the notion of you're red, you're dead isn't so much about the risk or the reward but the feeling of power and control. The corruption system does take away some power and control which isn't conducive to some forms of gameplay.

    We won’t see bounty hunting if the system completely deters PvP interactions.

    Its not going to deter pvp completely, only stop those who care enough to quibble. My whole crew of friends will spend most of their time red, even to kill bounty hunters. I'm in two minds because I wanted to be a Bounty Hunter like SWG. Other games I've been a red equals dead player though. Tough choices.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    You're red, you're dead can still be achieved by Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters can also turn red, you just can't bounty hunt when you are red. I feel all sides of the pvp spectrum have been accounted for but so too has the pve spectrum somewhat. I don't even consider the whole parameter as risk/reward because the notion of you're red, you're dead isn't so much about the risk or the reward but the feeling of power and control. The corruption system does take away some power and control which isn't conducive to some forms of gameplay.

    We won’t see bounty hunting if the system completely deters PvP interactions.

    Its not going to deter pvp completely, only stop those who care enough to quibble. My whole crew of friends will spend most of their time red, even to kill bounty hunters. I'm in two minds because I wanted to be a Bounty Hunter like SWG. Other games I've been a red equals dead player though. Tough choices.

    We will see how it gets tuned, too harsh and it’ll be in troll gear.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yeah. I imagine the pvp players out number the pve players in testing but I can't be certain.
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  • hleVhleV Member
    edited May 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    The point you are making - from my understanding- is that you dont want to have the risk of losing gear for killing one player that is either in a spot you want to farm, or has pissed you off in some way.
    Bravo. Now, I expect you to address this one thing specifically, instead of generalizing and pretending that gear piece drop RNG at low corruption level is the only punishment for going red, and that I wish to remove all punishment for going red.
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