Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
It is for the exact reasons I'm thinking, you are trying to look at it deeper than it really is. This isn't isolated to just younger gamers either lol.
Age of hiding things from others is over, that doesn't mean some won't be willing to show or some will keep things hidden for a time. But eventually things will be shown and people will make guides, talk about the content, etc..
Its funny you are saying youngers gamers (or in relation to the points i mentioned why things are going to be shown) are narcissistic. Yet you are trying to argue people are competitive in pve (lol?) and won't share information. Sounds like elitists attitude where they think they are more important than others in god damn pve.
You think people sharing information are only doing it for themselves, you must be really disconnected with he current age of games.
You clearly have stream, id love to see what games you are playing and time invested in them.
Else they will stay on their current mmorpgs.
But we will get new young players too, isn't it?
I think this brings up good points and it points to the heart of a lot of the recent debates.
I'm for sure going to be hardcore, ive been dying for a good mmo for a long time, but I do worry that I may not be able to bring many of my friends along for the ride. I can't get anyone I know to play Eve lol.
I love the direction they are going and all the systems shown so far are amazing. However, I'm also concerned about how restrictive things are leaning. I think the questions and pushback on this topic are warranted.
How about questions and testing.
I'm ready. Just let me know when 😀
For "testing" Alpha 2, over 100K players already bought access: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2D_6FLZ51k&t=665s
and they expect the number to explode before the Alpha 2 starts.
I think plenty of them will be casuals even if they want to believe they are not.
And Steven said at the end of The Ashen Forge: Episode 100 that
- they want to make a product we enjoy
- comments on social media and forums make them more motivated to work
https://youtu.be/IUrjiAHZJT4?t=6872
He also said that the game is not for everybody. This last statement I see it more as a defensive stance, fear of failure and fear of social media.
He said all core features needed for Alpha 2 start are present but only need to be improved and more content to be added. https://youtube.com/watch?v=IUrjiAHZJT4&t=2707s
I think the first weeks when the game enters into Alpha 2 will be more stressful for Intrepid Studios than the release itself.
Being competitive is not narcissistic.
As to your comment about young people sharing information - that isn't what people are doing, they are essentially begging others to watch them.
In terms of the information sharing, it was easier and faster 20 years ago than what younger people do today.
Within hours of a content drop in EQ2, I would be able to look up quest walkthroughs, NPC conversations (including branching dialouge with racial and lange based branches) , full maps of new zones including spawns of all mob types, pathing locations of any mob that paths, 3d renders of housing items - all within hours.
Today, it takes weeks or months to get all of that up in video form. If it is available at launch of a content drop, it is because developers gave content creators early access to said content.
There is no massive gap in the amount of information shared between now and 20 years ago. There is a difference in the format that information takes (it used to be text, it is now video - text is superior if linked properly).
The reason so much information is in video form now rather than text is because if you do a write up (or contribute to one), you don't get people looking at you. If you do a video, that is exactly what you get.
That is what a narcissist is. It is not someone that is competitive in a competitive game.
What if each node had a PVP meter (corruption meter) where the more PVP the harder and more rewarding the PVE becomes? Only you never really see the meter, but you can feel it or it’s effects. Lore-wise, conflict attracts corruption within the environment. Cooperation lowers the PVP meter, which may be necessary if a node swings too high into the danger zone. Think TPK situation.
I think a lot of MMOs become PVP-fests because the content doesn’t meet the player’s expectations or gets too routine or familiar (the been there, done that effect).
Anyway, if a high PVP zone has benefits that are more rewarding in general, the PVE players shouldn’t mind the “annoyance” of getting ganked, but then you have the corruption system if that works as planned. And PVP players actually have stuff to be gained by the competition. If PVE players understand that engaging in PVP can actually get more of what they want from PVE, then I think fewer will whine about it - or broaden their perspective to see the value in that style of play.
Game style should ebb and flow like the tides. There are also times for big PVP battles or big boss events. It should feel natural and epic enough for players to prepare in between those events. I think casual players would prefer a known schedule to plan around, whereas hardcore players will be looking for advantages from being in the right time and place for an unexpected or unique event.
I think playing the game should have it’s rewards. Rewards for casuals who play infrequently and rewards for hardcore players who play more frequently or are into the whole organizing society game. I think “fair” is a termed thrown around way too much. I don’t expect the game to be fair, and that could go for me or against me. Makes it feel more real.
You have a warped world view. To think narcissism is the only reason people (including younger content creators) share information is not healthy and doesn't reflect the real world. As for your other points, I agree that text is generally more efficient and concise when done well.
I generally agree. Time spent within the game should feel rewarding no matter your time investment. That reward may be mental alone if you are a hyper casual, as the feeling of progressing should be there no matter what label applies to you. Also, as far as I know it the game will have the same requirements of all players involved meaning the opportunity is the same across the board. That is a fair system. If you have less time to spend in the game or aren't as efficient as another player, is that the games fault or just the circumstance of life? Don't expect to have the same success as a hardcore player if you yourself play as a casual. Anyone that wants that is actually advocating for an unfair system.
A casual may spend more time in the game on long term. Might be present every week a few years long.
Should such a player have any advantage over efficient players who play only 4-5 months? Assuming new efficient players join while others leave.
If the game rewards only efficiency then maybe the game is not for them.
What I said is the only reason knowledge that would have previously not been shared at all due to being considered essentially guild IP would now be shared (which is limited to a very select number of things) is because of narcissim.
As a general tip, if you think I have said something that suggests a warped view, consider re-reading as it is likely you have misunderstood. You may not agree with everything I say, but every opinion I share is rooted in absolute logic. If I have an opinion that isn't rooted in such logic, I keep it to myself.
Objective logic or subjective logic? Objective logic is generally rooted in statistical facts (absolute truth). Which in turn can be and usually is corelated with cited sources that have been verified and tested over time.
Subjective logic not so much. It can have a more wide degree of outcome. Without going post by post, some of the things in posts I've seen of yours, while valid, are still just opinion based on subjective logic. Things you see as logical but not necessarily rooted in statistical facts. So like all others posts here, just personal opinion. Not better, not worse, just yours.
"Come join us as you wont like the taste of the Grapefruits we're throwing at our enemies."
"Never settle for what you think you know" - C. Krauthammer
This is an odd post to make when I am talking about how I form opinions.
If I am forming an opinion using objective facts, I am not forming an opinion. Facts aren't opinions.
Since I said I was talking about opinions, I am obviously talking at least in part subjectively.
You may also note that I specifically said the person I was talking to need not agree with me. The point of the post was to point out to that poster that if they think I have a warped view of something, they probably misunderstood.
Again, they are welcome and free to disagree with me. I specifically said that.
You went out of your way to emphasize that you were sharing opinion rooted in "absolute" logic. I don't see Subjective logic as absolute. Maybe you meant to use another word?
"Come join us as you wont like the taste of the Grapefruits we're throwing at our enemies."
"Never settle for what you think you know" - C. Krauthammer
No, it was the right word.
It would seem to me you are looking at the two words "absolute" and "logic" as being one. Perhaps this is a term you come across often in a specific field.
Looking at them as two words, using the definition of absolute as being "viewed or existing independently and not in relation to other things", it is the correct word to use.
In other words, I form my opinions purely on logic, I dont look at other things, such as but not limited to emotion.
Your opinion on this is dog crap its so bad and I'm not writing a page to answer this. The idea you take streamers / people the share information as wanting (begging) attention is one of the worse most naïve takes is understanding humans I've ever seen.
You are so disconnected from reality it is pretty worrisome, this is most likely do to your own elite attitude not wanting to accept you as well will be following their guides.. As much as you want a mmorpg with 0 information at all times so you can try to feel "special".
-Have an unreasonably high sense of self-importance and require constant, excessive admiration.
-Feel that they deserve privileges and special treatment.
-Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements.
-Make achievements and talents seem bigger than they are.
-Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate.
-Believe they are superior to others and can only spend time with or be understood by equally special people.
-Be critical of and look down on people they feel are not important.
Noaani sometimes you need to starting looking at within yourself. Maybe that is where the issue is, and not content creators or people sharing information and creating sites for it...
This is why i keep saying you have no soul when you post, your statement fruther proves this. Relying on your own logic (subjective as it may be) and trying to use that as some post of rule post to follow just isn't going to fly. Excessive reliance on your own logic alone is just going to have you overlooking other factors. Emotions and personal experience are all part of forming well rounded understandings and why it is important to take in account others view points and feelings on the matter.
As much as you try to say, just like everyone else as far as this discussion goes it is all subjective. You are throwing a broad statement out there trying to paint everyone the same color, there is no fact there that is simply your opinion. It is your opinion to suggest they aren't doing it for passion or enjoyment.
Does it mean some are only doing things for attention, sure but trying to based a whole generation, a whole group of people that share information as being narcissistic is honestly just misleading. It is interesting you say you base things off logic yet use so much misinformation at the same time.
The moment you started to try and say how other people are or why they do things, showed you aren't looking at anything based on logic. You simply just are looking for your own world of logic to look down on people...
The comment was discussing the
AI is an interesting tool..
The statements you provided can be evaluated as follows:
"It would seem to me you are looking at the two words 'absolute' and 'logic' as being one. Perhaps this is a term you come across often in a specific field."
This statement seems to be a conjecture or observation about how one may be interpreting the words "absolute" and "logic."
"Looking at them as two words, using the definition of absolute as being 'viewed or existing independently and not in relation to other things,' it is the correct word to use."
If you're considering the words "absolute" and "logic" individually, and using the definition of "absolute" as something independent of other things, then it can be argued that using "absolute" to describe your reliance solely on logic is appropriate. It suggests that you form your opinions based on logic alone, without considering other factors such as emotions or external influences.
"In other words, I form my opinions purely on logic, I don't look at other things, such as but not limited to emotion."
This statement suggests that you base your opinions solely on logic and disregard other factors, including emotions. If this accurately reflects your approach, then it can be considered true for you personally.
However, it's important to note that in many situations, considering both logic and emotions can lead to a more comprehensive understanding of a given topic or decision. Emotions can provide valuable insights and perspectives that logic alone might not capture.
Quite interesting what AI has to say about a lot of posts.. nothing personal.. just interesting
Good post- I think Ashes is actually on track to handle this pretty well based on what i've heard Steven say and the info i've read on the wiki.
For starters, his goal is basically that open world pvp is there to give a feeling of risk, but basically that is all, and he doesn't want hardcore players ganking casuals to actually manfiest itself on a regular basis, and that is one of the testing points of alpha 2 to ensure it doesn't occur much, even if it theoretically could, so this should aid in allowing casuals to focus on their preferred pve content. This is following the throught process that just because a pve player can potentially focus on pve to an extent, doesn't mean there isn't a reward associated with players being efficient in both pve and pvp content, through having better progression opportunites from participating in riskier activities.
Alternatively, from a pure pvp perspective, there is opportunties for this type of isolated content as well through things like duels and arenas. Obviously with the same reward associated with pvx content like contested raid bosses, or mixed content in massive sieges.
As far as the actual level of challenge presented to each player, there is the aspect of it being an open world mmo with progression, meaning players can modulate their own level of difficulty to an extent, through gear, levels, and their choice of battles they engage in. Additionally there will be adaptive A.I. difficulty, meaning the encounters should conform to the skill of the players to an extent to help maintain flow.
Lastly, I think the general design approach of Steven aiming to make ashes easy to learn but hard to master, is beneficial in that it allows for casual players to participate in their preferred content and experience a given fantasy, but the systems have depth to reward those more organized and more skilled players. This has been the case for the most part from what i've seen so far, but we are not even to testing phases yet so its hard to judge the current state of things and how it measures up to these design goals. Freeholds could potentially be improved in this regard, for example.
Oh, for sure.
I didnt take anything negative at all towards me from your post, it is accurate.
I am aware that there are perspectives that you need to factor in emotion in order to understand. The reason I dont is because emotions are vastly different among people, and depend greatly on their previous experience, not just what that experience actually is, but also how it made them feel.
I'm also not saying others should remove emotion from opinions they form. All I am saying is that I do, and so if someone looks at my opinion and thinks it is a warped view, they probably misunderstood something.
The Ashes "difficulty" is like, "To master this you have to agree to eat 2 servings of chittlins each day."
The people who love chittlins will eat that up. The people who don't love chittlins will most likely just go somewhere else.
Reminds me of when I was in Japan. My girlfriend's parents said, "It's OK Dygz, you don't have to eat the fish eyes. We know that Americans are afraid to eat fish eyes."
I told them, "I'm not afraid to eat fish eyes."
"OK, what are you, then?"
It was then that I realized I had not yet learned the word for disgusting.
ashes isnt aimed at pve players. its aimed at pvp players and pvp players dont mind doing pve when it makes you stronger in pvp. also, all the pve will not just be pve as you will have to compete against other players so that you can do pve. also, you can have pvp players who play casually. and sure there will be a few pvper who prefer an equalized arena so that they have to skip all the farm, but most people dont.
some pve only players might benefit from some things and everybody is welcome to play ashes, but they arent even remotely the target audience for the game. and before someone says something like "the game wont survive without pve players" go back to when i said pvp players dont mind doing pve too.
Ashes is aimed at hardcore PvPers. PvX really just means that the PvPers who play Ashes will sometimes have to PvE. But, that's really also true for playing on a PvP server in EQ2 and WoW.
PvX is mostly a meaningless term.
I think Ashes has a very good chance of maintaining the population numbers Steven hopes for:
Similar numbers as EvE Online would be great. More would be even better.
It's just not going to have the diversity of playstyles Steven initially claimed Ashes would support by design.
We will see.
I've never heard Steven say that was his design goal, so you must be inferring that from the current design mechanics- and if thats the case then its not really fair to make that claim without refuting how the designs that I mentioned above actually support both pve and pvp playstyles to an extent.
Yes, in my above post I mentioned that, it is a risk/reward mechanic. That doesn't mean there isn't more purist pve content, it just means that you will be rewarded if you engage with the riskier content.
Ok? That sounds like you support mixed pvx content by that statement. Again, there is nothing wrong with pvx if its a risk/reward mechanic. There can still be pure pvp content even if its not always equalized. Things like arenas and duels, as I mentioned already. That also doesn't mean you cant have fair pvp, it just means you are going to want to be pvping against people at your level of progression.
Based on my previous points, I disagree. There is plenty of content aimed at pve only players, and pvp won't necessarily be forced on pve players, based on the design goal of the corruption system.
In terms of "preventing you from doing want you want", I wasn't really referring to that, when mentioning "difficult to master". I actually don't think it will be the case that Ashes will prevent you from playing how you want, a majority of the time, unless players want to take extra risks for more reward, such as going into the open sea, or contesting the best raid bosses. If you don't want to take the extra risks, then you shouldn't have an issue pursuing your preferred playstyle in ashes, assuming the design goals are met from the testing phases, regarding corruption specifically.
I was more referring to difficulty in terms of individual systems, and the depth they provide to challenge more skilled players, such as the adpative A.I., amount of tools/options available to players, and the general complexity of the game. It should be a relatively hard game to master, but offers ease of access and choice to casual players for the most part.
Eve pop levels would be bad. There are 10 to 20k online at any given time. It works for Eve but that would only support 4 or 5 servers if they are hoping for 50k per server (I'm obviously estimating)
It's also a population level that led to CCP being bought out by Pearl Abyss, so they no longer directly control their fate.