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Casual vs. hardcore players as seen by Steven

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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    to me PvE is unbareable without the looming threat of potential pvp so yes to me PvP makes PvE more interesting
    If you are talking about just base population/trash mobs - the kind of general mob you would see in an overland situation - I actually agree.

    But then, I don't consider that to be PvE at all. I don't consider it to even be content.

    It is filler.

    Any game developer that points to it and says it is content for players should look for a new career, imo.

    When you get to what *I* consider PvE content, yeah, PvP has no place.

    WoW Raids are also unbearably boring for me, 99%of fights conist of can you follow simple directions in middle of screen you win then congratz.......
    it honost drove me insane how many people died to simple mechanics since u didnt follow a direction lol.

    PvE raids are so scripted you know exactly whats gonna happen because there designed to be fair which basicly boils down being predictable, only pve i can stand were early MMO when there were unpredictable elements but since WoW those have been stripped away to make a rather predictable bland pve experience

    I dont disagree.

    WoW raids are sub-par by design. The absolute top end raids are fairly good, but the bulk of them are not.

    A big part of this is because you will know exactly what to expect on your first pull - Blizzard make no attempt of leaving it to players to work out.

    The part of PvE that is by far the most interesting is when you have a new encounter, and literally no idea at all what it will do. WoW simply does not have this aspect of PvE at all.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    you could also design it for it never to be beaten, but devs dont do that.
    I wish they did. So that I can tell pve players that they have their own version of "we brought only 40 people, while they brought 300".
  • Depraved wrote: »
    i like leveling my skills and all that.

    casuals != low skills

    point is the game is made to be beaten. you could make an invincible boss and now no one can beat it, but you dont, right? everything can b beaten. tis designed that way. you could also design it for it never to be beaten, but devs dont do that.

    I have not suggested a boss or PvE content which no one can beat it.
    Players who put enough time and energy to train and reach the skill level, they will defeat the most difficult dungeon on the map.
    There might be two problems to solve then:
    - how to keep the minority who can beat the hardest PvE content interested in the game
    - how to keep the majority interested in the game, long term

    I was talking about this 2nd, larger category. They need long term achievable goals too.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    i like leveling my skills and all that.

    casuals != low skills

    point is the game is made to be beaten. you could make an invincible boss and now no one can beat it, but you dont, right? everything can b beaten. tis designed that way. you could also design it for it never to be beaten, but devs dont do that.

    I have not suggested a boss or PvE content which no one can beat it.
    Players who put enough time and energy to train and reach the skill level, they will defeat the most difficult dungeon on the map.
    There might be two problems to solve then:
    - how to keep the minority who can beat the hardest PvE content interested in the game
    - how to keep the majority interested in the game, long term

    I was talking about this 2nd, larger category. They need long term achievable goals too.

    what im saying is pve will never be harder than pvp, because pve is designed to be beaten and pvp isnt. doesnt matter if you add easier or harder pve for a group. thats beside the point
  • AlmostDeadAlmostDead Member, Alpha Two
    For me, casual or hardcore, does it really need to be defined? Just semantics.

    See, I'm going to play the game no matter what, because it looks absolutely amazing. Nodes, risk/reward, no P2W, 64 classes, no fast travel, stock market, naval, pvx, extended leveling time, a dedicated gamer-developer without corporate pressure, I could go on and on (and on). Just looks like an outstanding game, overall.

    I have no expectation that the game won't have aspects that I disagree with (sorry for the dbl negative there).
    There will be things about the game that I disagree with, and possibly even hate, but I will flow like water and find my fun. Because there will be MANY more things that I love about AoC.

    I will find my people. I will find my fun. I will play the effing sh*t out of this game for years.

    And let's be honest, you will too. Even you, Dygz. Because there just isn't any other game out there that comes close to this. AoC will be a paradigm shift for the MMO genre.

    For the record, I'm pretty casual these days but will probably play WAY more time than I should for the first 6 months (4-5 hours per day), at the cost of sleep, then settle into 2-3 hours per day from there. Casual vs hardcore all boils down to how important the game is in your life and what else in life you are willing to sacrifice to be max in the game. It's not an either/or, it's a spectrum. That's it.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    well, have you heard steven say aoc is aimed at pve players? ive heard him say pvp players dont mind doing pve if its tied to pvp, and everybody knows that anyways.

    you can have pure pve and do risk vs reward. thats independand of pvp or pve.

    i dont want equalized arenas, im just saying those people exist.

    what content, specifically, is aimed at pve only players?

    We like to really refer to ourselves as a PvX game, because in those systems of PvP, PvE, crafting they're all intertwined: They're interdependent on each other... Our system of development really requires some interdependence there between those things. You're going to need a crafter to give you the best items. You're going to need PvPers to secure cities and castles. You're gonna need PvErs to take down those world bosses for those materials to craft.

    ---Steven

    That one is just the quickest quote to find. There should be a couple others.
    I'll post them if/when I find them.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    mcnasty wrote: »
    For me, casual or hardcore, does it really need to be defined? Just semantics.

    See, I'm going to play the game no matter what, because it looks absolutely amazing. Nodes, risk/reward, no P2W, 64 classes, no fast travel, stock market, naval, pvx, extended leveling time, a dedicated gamer-developer without corporate pressure, I could go on and on (and on). Just looks like an outstanding game, overall.

    You forgot Stuffertons, @mcnasty. How could you? :o

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Typically yes, PvE is made to be completable, somehow. Based on posts above, that becomes boring. But only after the player reaches that stage were it has to go through the same experience over and over.
    Variation is important. I think is important in PvP too.
    But for PvE, does it have to be always completable? Because if it is, that causes boredom.
    PvE doesn't become boring.
    2+ years of repeating Endgame content quickly becomes boring.
    Nodes and Sieges could be a solution for that.
    Seasons are probably a better solution.
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    And don't forget the world changes as well. As nodes rise and fall new terrain appears, and new dungeons
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    mcnasty wrote: »
    I will find my people. I will find my fun. I will play the effing sh*t out of this game for years.

    And let's be honest, you will too. Even you, Dygz. Because there just isn't any other game out there that comes close to this. AoC will be a paradigm shift for the MMO genre.
    Yeah... I mean the devil is in the details.
    I am Braver of Worlds, so at this point I can play without paying subscription.
    I don't like to play MMORPGs that the ruleset that Ashes has.
    Ashes is not designed for me.

    That doesn't mean I will 100% never, ever jump into Ashes after launch.
    What does mean is that when I want to scratch my MMORPG itch, I will be playing some other game.
    I'd even play World of Warcraft before Ashes.

    Fantm or Neurotoxin could ask me to jump in for a Siege - I might do that once in a long while.
    They might ask me to help out with a Freehold task - I might do that once in a long while.
    They might ask me to attend a party - I'd probably do that at a house on a Freehold.
    I may, fairly frequently jump in so I can make some YouTube shorts cosplaying different races and showing off cool costumes.

    What I won't be doing is spending my typical 8+ hours per day uncovering the entire map and progressing to max level and joining social orgs. I'm not really going to be interested enough to Master any crafting.
    I'm not really interest in investing in character progression (or any form of progression) in Ashes.
    But, I might pop in to hang out with the community for a while. Sure.

    WoW Dragonflight is more suited to my playstyle than Ashes.
    Pax Dei suits me more. Palia suits me more. Wagadu Chronicles. Probably Throne and Libeirty.
    Also, P2W is not a dealbreaker for me, so that leaves more games open for me to enjoy than the for gamers Ashes is designed for.
    Ashes no longer has a paradigm shift I'm interested in "truly" playing, but...
    Yeah, that doesn't mean I will absolutely refuse to spend any time whatsoever in the game world.
    Also doesn't mean I will never create content for the game.

    The paradigm shit I was expecting from Ashes was that it would abate my frustrations with WoW's Endgame.
    But, several more years passed beyond 2020 and WoW ended up finding a solution that alleviates my WoW frustrations, so...
    I no longer need to rely on Ashes as my go to MMORPG.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited July 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    i like leveling my skills and all that.

    casuals != low skills

    point is the game is made to be beaten. you could make an invincible boss and now no one can beat it, but you dont, right? everything can b beaten. tis designed that way. you could also design it for it never to be beaten, but devs dont do that.

    I have not suggested a boss or PvE content which no one can beat it.
    Players who put enough time and energy to train and reach the skill level, they will defeat the most difficult dungeon on the map.
    There might be two problems to solve then:
    - how to keep the minority who can beat the hardest PvE content interested in the game
    - how to keep the majority interested in the game, long term

    I was talking about this 2nd, larger category. They need long term achievable goals too.

    what im saying is pve will never be harder than pvp, because pve is designed to be beaten and pvp isnt. doesnt matter if you add easier or harder pve for a group. thats beside the point

    I see my mistake.
    I will not even try to find some exceptions or 'what if' potential corner cases.
    Would not help the game.
  • Ravicus wrote: »
    And don't forget the world changes as well. As nodes rise and fall new terrain appears, and new dungeons

    New terrain appears??
    Is it that dynamic?
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited July 2023
    Dygz wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Typically yes, PvE is made to be completable, somehow. Based on posts above, that becomes boring. But only after the player reaches that stage were it has to go through the same experience over and over.
    Variation is important. I think is important in PvP too.
    But for PvE, does it have to be always completable? Because if it is, that causes boredom.
    PvE doesn't become boring.
    2+ years of repeating Endgame content quickly becomes boring.
    Nodes and Sieges could be a solution for that.
    Seasons are probably a better solution.

    Yet players leave to play other mmorpgs
    Dygz wrote: »
    The paradigm shit I was expecting from Ashes was that it would abate my frustrations with WoW's Endgame.
    But, several more years passed beyond 2020 and WoW ended up finding a solution that alleviates my WoW frustrations, so...
    I no longer need to rely on Ashes as my go to MMORPG.

    What have they done to abate your frustrations?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Yet players leave to play other mmorpgs
    Especially, casual players will leave once they hit Endgame and all there is left to do is repeat dungeons and raids for 2+ years. Yes.
    So... MMORPGs need to find a way to always have new stuff to do - within 3 month periods... rather than requiring players to wait 2+ years for new content.

    Raven016 wrote: »
    What have they done to abate your frustrations?
    As of Dragonflight, I have not exhausted available quests after max level.
    I can focus on hitting Master Crafter levels.
    There are plenty of reputation quests.
    There are some fun achievements to work towards to unlock monthly cosmetics.
    And new Seasonal content - every 3 or 4 months - which introduce plenty of new quests.

    And... it's the new Seasonal content that is the key.
  • @Dygz Have fun! :)
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Only way for continuous new content for an MMORPG that satisfies the casual non-PVP player is a full AI implementation that redesigns and expands the game as you go. At that scale you’d need to use the ocean to keep the server temps down.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm bored on WoW. I have the same issue now that I had on vanilla. Just pointless quests, dull dungeons, predictable raids, too many addons, and the endless grind for upgrade materials each expansion.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    https://youtu.be/Ch2EZ96-l34

    This video is actually spot on lol

    I know some folcs here don't like narc, I ain't a fan either, but this worth the watch time
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Only way for continuous new content for an MMORPG that satisfies the casual non-PVP player is a full AI implementation that redesigns and expands the game as you go. At that scale you’d need to use the ocean to keep the server temps down.
    New content every 3 or 4 months is way better than waiting 2+ years for new content.
    It doesn't have to be more continuous than that for players who only have casual time.
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    to me PvE is unbareable without the looming threat of potential pvp so yes to me PvP makes PvE more interesting
    If you are talking about just base population/trash mobs - the kind of general mob you would see in an overland situation - I actually agree.

    But then, I don't consider that to be PvE at all. I don't consider it to even be content.

    It is filler.

    Any game developer that points to it and says it is content for players should look for a new career, imo.

    When you get to what *I* consider PvE content, yeah, PvP has no place.

    WoW Raids are also unbearably boring for me, 99%of fights conist of can you follow simple directions in middle of screen you win then congratz.......
    it honost drove me insane how many people died to simple mechanics since u didnt follow a direction lol.

    PvE raids are so scripted you know exactly whats gonna happen because there designed to be fair which basicly boils down being predictable, only pve i can stand were early MMO when there were unpredictable elements but since WoW those have been stripped away to make a rather predictable bland pve experience

    @Noaani pls

    has anyone else noticed that @BlackBrony seems to be @Noaani 's less smart sidekick?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/Ch2EZ96-l34

    This video is actually spot on lol

    I know some folcs here don't like narc, I ain't a fan either, but this worth the watch time
    I mean... Narc's premise is...odd.

    New World has fast travel. Ashes does not.
    A world 18 times larger than New World, with no fast travel does not sound particularly appealing - it is not enticing. It seems very objectively wrong. Especially from a casual perspective. And that's even without playing on a server where we're always flagged for PvP combat.
    So, yeah... there's some stuff we don't have to play to know that it is highly likely we won't enjoy that feature.
    And, if you want your feedback to be meaningful - it's best to give that feedback sooner, rather than later.


    LMFAO!!
    Narc says that he can prove that Freeholds were ALWAYS intended to be Endgame content by sharing a quote from one year ago. A lot of stuff that changed changed after Jeffrey Bard - the original Lead Game Designer - left Intrepid Studios 2 years ago.
    A quote from a year ago does nothing to prove that the design is as it always was - as far back as the Kickstarter. (Also, I'm pretty sure that Freeholds having the best Processing was brand new info a year ago.)
    Margaret typically only reads questions to Steven that are not already covered in the wiki.

    Everything is subject to change. Some changes might be significant enough to be dealbreakers for some players following the development.
    And... that's OK.
    Ashes is not made for everyone.

    I think Bidding indicates that it's not accurate that anyone who wants to achieve a Freehold will be able to.
    Bidding implies that a significant portion of players who have met all the other requirements to acquire a Freehold will be locked out due to losing bids.
    Which should be great for driving PvP combat.
    There should be no surprise that casuals and PvEers would not be particularly happy about that.

    I think casuals are OK with Crafting to Master and Grandmaster being longterm progression goals.
    What they don't expect to have to do is compete for that via bidding - and be locked out due to losing bids against other players.
    That is a hardcore mechanic. So, again... there should be no surprise that casuals aren't happy with learning about another hardcore mechanic that was first mentioned a year ago.
    The current Ashes design is signifcantly more of a hardcore PvP game than what was described during Kickstarter and all the time that Jeffrey Bard was the Lead Game Designer.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Abarat wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    to me PvE is unbareable without the looming threat of potential pvp so yes to me PvP makes PvE more interesting
    If you are talking about just base population/trash mobs - the kind of general mob you would see in an overland situation - I actually agree.

    But then, I don't consider that to be PvE at all. I don't consider it to even be content.

    It is filler.

    Any game developer that points to it and says it is content for players should look for a new career, imo.

    When you get to what *I* consider PvE content, yeah, PvP has no place.

    WoW Raids are also unbearably boring for me, 99%of fights conist of can you follow simple directions in middle of screen you win then congratz.......
    it honost drove me insane how many people died to simple mechanics since u didnt follow a direction lol.

    PvE raids are so scripted you know exactly whats gonna happen because there designed to be fair which basicly boils down being predictable, only pve i can stand were early MMO when there were unpredictable elements but since WoW those have been stripped away to make a rather predictable bland pve experience

    @Noaani pls

    has anyone else noticed that @BlackBrony seems to be @Noaani 's less smart sidekick?

    This is called 'yielding the floor' in a forum.

    It's giving up your time or response to someone you know or expect will make your point better than you can, with less mess and wasted time.

    So in a specific way, you're right, it's just not very meaningful when you say it.

    If I do this about PvP incentives and call NiKr, it is because I am, in that moment 'NiKr's less experienced sidekick'.

    Basically there's no real need to point it out. Yes, we know how discourse works, it's fine.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Azherae wrote: »
    Abarat wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    to me PvE is unbareable without the looming threat of potential pvp so yes to me PvP makes PvE more interesting
    If you are talking about just base population/trash mobs - the kind of general mob you would see in an overland situation - I actually agree.

    But then, I don't consider that to be PvE at all. I don't consider it to even be content.

    It is filler.

    Any game developer that points to it and says it is content for players should look for a new career, imo.

    When you get to what *I* consider PvE content, yeah, PvP has no place.

    WoW Raids are also unbearably boring for me, 99%of fights conist of can you follow simple directions in middle of screen you win then congratz.......
    it honost drove me insane how many people died to simple mechanics since u didnt follow a direction lol.

    PvE raids are so scripted you know exactly whats gonna happen because there designed to be fair which basicly boils down being predictable, only pve i can stand were early MMO when there were unpredictable elements but since WoW those have been stripped away to make a rather predictable bland pve experience

    @Noaani pls

    has anyone else noticed that @BlackBrony seems to be @Noaani 's less smart sidekick?

    This is called 'yielding the floor' in a forum.

    It's giving up your time or response to someone you know or expect will make your point better than you can, with less mess and wasted time.

    So in a specific way, you're right, it's just not very meaningful when you say it.

    If I do this about PvP incentives and call NiKr, it is because I am, in that moment 'NiKr's less experienced sidekick'.

    Basically there's no real need to point it out. Yes, we know how discourse works, it's fine.

    I would respond, but some random said i should ignore you.

    Interestingly, I learned something today. If you have a dumb sidekick that tries to support you in public, you are supposed to call it "yielding the floor".


    LIve and learn
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/Ch2EZ96-l34

    This video is actually spot on lol

    I know some folcs here don't like narc, I ain't a fan either, but this worth the watch time

    i just watched this, it is a pretty good take.
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Dygz wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/Ch2EZ96-l34

    This video is actually spot on lol

    I know some folcs here don't like narc, I ain't a fan either, but this worth the watch time
    I mean... Narc's premise is...odd.

    New World has fast travel. Ashes does not.
    A world 18 times larger than New World, with no fast travel does not sound particularly appealing - it is not enticing. It seems very objectively wrong. Especially from a casual perspective. And that's even without playing on a server where we're always flagged for PvP combat.
    So, yeah... there's some stuff we don't have to play to know that it is highly likely we won't enjoy that feature.
    And, if you want your feedback to be meaningful - it's best to give that feedback sooner, rather than later.


    LMFAO!!
    Narc says that he can prove that Freeholds were ALWAYS intended to be Endgame content by sharing a quote from one year ago. A lot of stuff that changed changed after Jeffrey Bard - the original Lead Game Designer - left Intrepid Studios 2 years ago.
    A quote from a year ago does nothing to prove that the design is as it always was - as far back as the Kickstarter. (Also, I'm pretty sure that Freeholds having the best Processing was brand new info a year ago.)
    Everything is subject to change. Some changes might be significant enough to be dealbreakers for some players following the development.
    And... that's OK.
    Ashes is not made for everyone.

    I think Bidding indicates that it's not accurate that anyone who wants to achieve a Freehold will be able to.
    Bidding implies that a significant portion of players who have met all the other requirements to acquire a Freehold will be locked out due to losing bids.
    Which should be great for driving PvP combat.
    There should be no surprise that casuals and PvEers would not be particularly happy about that.

    @Dygz I genuinely respect your presence in the MMO space. However, you are not a fan of the design pillars of this game. Continuing to point out that a game whose basic design pillars are in DIRECT conflict to your playstyle, seems kinda like sour grapes.

    Are you trying to get PVE servers? is that your goal? It is hard for me to understand what you are trying to do. you say you are not working against the game, but... sometimes... it seems like you are trying to fit a tab into another tab, instead of a slot.

    Perhaps, rather than asking the game to change their vision, you can *temporarily* change your (seemingly very RIGID) views?
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    many games didnt have fast travel before, then they added it. aoc will probs do it. and aoc has some forms of fastER traveling anyways just not instant teleport almost anywhere
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Abarat wrote: »
    @Dygz I genuinely respect your presence in the MMO space. However, you are not a fan of the design pillars of this game. Continuing to point out that a game whose basic design pillars are in DIRECT conflict to your playstyle, seems kinda like sour grapes.

    Are you trying to get PVE servers? is that your goal? It is hard for me to understand what you are trying to do. you say you are not working against the game, but... sometimes... it seems like you are trying to fit a tab into another tab, instead of a slot.
    Here are the Ashes Design Pillars:
    1: Engaging and immersive story
    2: Reactive world
    3: Player interaction
    4: Player agency
    5: Risk vs reward

    I'm actually a fan of all of those design pillars. Especially the first 4.
    Risk v Reward also sounds OK since I have no issues at all with Risk from PvE.
    And, I'm theoretically OK with Risk from PvP combat - as long as the entire map includes Corruption.

    I'm not really interested in playing the game, so...
    No. I don't want Ashes to have PvE servers.
    I want Steven to continue to make the game according to his vision.
    I don't need to play the game to support the current vision. But, there should be no surprise that adding more hardcore mechanics will very likely push away more casuals.
    Hardcore PvPers should get to play a hardcore PvP MMORPG like Ashes. I totally support that.


    Abarat wrote: »
    Perhaps, rather than asking the game to change their vision, you can *temporarily* change your (seemingly very RIGID) views?
    I haven't asked for any of the game design or vision to be changed.
  • Individuated SoulIndividuated Soul Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Abarat wrote: »
    @Dygz I genuinely respect your presence in the MMO space. However, you are not a fan of the design pillars of this game. Continuing to point out that a game whose basic design pillars are in DIRECT conflict to your playstyle, seems kinda like sour grapes.

    Are you trying to get PVE servers? is that your goal? It is hard for me to understand what you are trying to do. you say you are not working against the game, but... sometimes... it seems like you are trying to fit a tab into another tab, instead of a slot.

    Perhaps, rather than asking the game to change their vision, you can *temporarily* change your (seemingly very RIGID) views?
    Here are the Ashes Design Pillars:
    1: Engaging and immersive story
    2: Reactive world
    3: Player interaction
    4: Player agency
    5: Risk vs reward

    I'm actually a fan of all of those design pillars. Especially the first 4.
    Risk v Reward also sounds OK since I have no issues at all with Risk from PvE.
    And, I'm theoretically OK with Risk from PvP combat - as long as the entire map includes Corruption.

    I'm not really interested in playing the game, so...
    No. I don't want Ashes to have PvE servers.
    I want Steven to continue to make the game according to his vision.
    I don't need to play the game to support the current vision. But, there should be no surprise that adding more hardcore mechanics will very likely push away more casuals.
    Hardcore PvPers should get to play a hardcore PvP MMORPG like Ashes. I totally support that.

    You make it clear every day you are happy with WoW dragonflight, are a mainly a pve carebear, and won't play AoC. We get it. Don't mind the discussions but you keep circling back to yourself which is coming across as sour grapes.

    Also saying you don't need to play a game to want it to succeed all while projecting your wants and desires, which aren't fully in line with the design philosophies, is odd and maybe disingenuous.
    jfpdwtk
  • LadyZelLadyZel Member
    edited July 2023
    Just a random thought:

    Casuals, small guilds, and solo players would smash the Player Agency pillar. Big guilds tend to operate with hivemind, they have to in order to work together to achieve goals.

    People like me will be in full Player Agency mode 100% of the time.

    Why are there people here so afraid of some diversity in AoC? Different kinds of players, not just large hivemind guilds, will bring so much variety in interaction and outcomes.

    Embrace us!
    "A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities." —J.R.R. Tolkien
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    I can't control how you misinterpret what I say.

    I am not projecting my wants and desires. I am sharing my casual challenge point of view for people who don't particularly understand the casual perspective and don't understand why some of the more hardcore challenge changes to the design results in some negative feedback from casuals.

    The design philosphies have changed.
    And then people ask me why my desire to play the game has changed.
    Or people ask why casuals don't have positive reaction to the changes in the design.
    So I explain why.
    I don't understand why that is odd or how it could be disingenuous.
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