Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
@Zehlan cutie pie, are you going to answer the question you've been asked or you got a logical checkmate and prefer to just bounce and lurk here rather than talk?
That's awesome. Official word is the best kind. Steven and his developer style is a big reason why Im here.
Whining requires a high pitched sound (as per its definition). If you are associating anyone's post with that tone, then that is on you.
Again though, the point of my previous post was that if you find yourself often getting in to off topic discussions when you would rather stay on topic, then perhaps you need to reassess your posting style. If people aren't responding to the parts of your posts that you want them to respond to, that is because you are giving them something else that they would either respond to. If you don't give people that, then they can only respond to what's left.
Yeah, sure.
What Steven has said though is that the plans they have are still basically the same, but that they are going to collect feedback on it.
Steven also decided to throw in the notion of risk vs reward, which leaves his notion of what risk vs reward actually means. If he is now saying that just time spent can be considered the risk element in risk vs reward, everything he has ever said about PvE risk vs reward is subject to question (subject to outright ridicule, to be honest).
It's also the reward side of it that he seems to not grasp. Risk vs reward is supposed to be "I risked something in order to get a reward that not everyone will get", which means the basic act of leveling is not subject to risk vs reward, because everyone thst plays the game will hit max level eventually - even if all you do is craft.
For someone that claims they "don't know what "giving up" means haha", you sure seem to have given up.
Looks like Steven wants leveling grindy and exponential. Exactly how I like it.
For someone that claims to be wanting to talk about leveling, you sure do seem to be talking a lot about other things.
It's a hard one, because slower might chase away a lot of people as they cant see a progression, faster may bore people at max level, so its never as easy as you think get levelling right, slower would work very well if they put in a few milestones between levels, so you get a reward, skill or otherwise say at every 3rd of a level.
players like to see and feel progression, if tis taking say a working players 3 or 4 days between levels, they will may well stop! don't say they not needed, because they are very much so every players is needed.
> First ~10-15 levels will be relatively fast (exact number is not known yet), so that people don't suffer at the start ;
> Reaching level 25 will roughly take 100 hours and the XP curve is not gonna be linear.
> He prefers it to be in more of a grindy side of things.
Thoughts:
> If first ~10-15 levels are fast, 1-25 "roughly takes 100 hours" and XP curve is not linear, I'd actually be surprised to find out that it all somehow magically adds up to ~225 hours, especially taking into account him saying "he prefers it to be somewhat grindy".
> A curve change from ~10-25/15-25 is clearly not gonna get back to linear after level 25. So if 1-25 takes ~100 hours, I probably wouldn't expect 25-50 to be 125-150 hours. Probably something close to, at least 300h for the whole 1-50.
> If it's the case, then it's a bit better obviously, but in general - doesn't change the situation dramatically. A few extra weeks or a month for an average player won't really make that huge of a difference in MMO.
> But if it's the case, still better than nothing
Once again, it's not about the game's population - that's only one of the factors. It is also about player retention which is crucial for a subscription-based MMO for the reasons that are so obvious, that I'm still surprised how certain people here still can't understant.
P.S. We discussed all that already in this thread: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/60737/ashes-of-creation-must-dodge-this-bullet#latest
And also, about those who are afraid of falling behind in progress because leveling up will take a lot of time. Сamooone!!, if you have little time you will still fall behind in progress, this is an MMORPG!! not in LVLeng but in clothes, not in clothes but in other aspects on which the high end is tied. For such a casual game there is GW2. This does not mean that you will not be able to play, there will simply be casual guilds, craft guilds. I don't understand People who say 'I'll have 1.5 hours a day three days a week and I don't want to fall behind everyone else.
Easy and fast stuff has less value. Mobs shall be hard and exploring the world shall be a valuable experience and an adventure to remember.
Please consider a slow and challenging progress.
Better feedback comes after we have a chance to the current design.
Especially vs "Intrepid must do this in order to avoid this bullet."
You are correct that I did not hear him say "I would be OK if it took 3 months or 25 months or infinite months to reach Level 25 Adventurer."
Generally their 225 hour statement may be true, but with all things AoC, this is an Alpha and is subject to change. It doesn’t sound like leveling speed is one of those unchanging elements. For Alpha 2, however, it’s looking like we’ll get an indication up to level 25, and we’ll have to see what tweaks come from that.
We do know nonlinear leveling is part of the design. I think most players will want to get to their secondary archetype augments sooner rather than later. 100 hours to get to that point would seem to be a decent time to learn or relearn your skills and combos. I think there also needs to be enough of a time sink to support the lower level gear economy. So as we test, they should get feedback on whether or not those lower levels of crafting feel right. Guess the same would apply to other level experiences than the character power level. I hope they experiment in alpha 2 to find that sweet spot.
I thing Dygz’s concern for Hell levels may still exist, at least at the higher levels which it will be a while before we get the opportunity to test. Really depends on decisions they make going forward. We know individuals on the team were involved in creating the games he experienced these Hell levels, and they seem to have a nostalgic view.
The complicating factor in leveling speed, especially as you get into higher levels of play, is the XP penalty for death. That will be different for each player, and the PVX nature of the game may compound that. A strong PVE player, but weak PVP player, or vice versa, may collect a significant XP debt that slows progression. That could be another version of Hell levels. A lot of that would depend on whether you can choose to play exclusively PVE or PVP. Design goals is to build community and have player friction. It’s going to be a while before we can test this.
So the 225 average can also be expressed as an average of averages. Different players will experience different leveling speeds. Oddly enough, that speed may be faster for those who desire slower speeds due to their leveling efficiency, or slower for those who desire a faster leveling speed for similar reasons. I don’t envy Intrepid on player satisfaction on this point.
I'd be actually surprised if it's still the case, even at this point. Because if it's true, then 1-25 takes 100 hours and 25-50 takes what? The remaining 125 hours?
Even if you make a very wrong calculation and assume that each level from 1-25 takes an equal amount of time, it would be 4 hours per level. Obviously, it's not the case and we know that first 10-15 levels will be fast the remaining 10-15 levels will take more time. So 24-25 alone can take somewhere around 6-8 hours. Even if you take the bare minimum of 6h and wrongfully assume that all levels from 25-50 take 6h each - then it would already be ~150 hours. But once again, we know it can't be that way and every new level will require more time. As a result, I'm pretty skeptical that 225h is still valid, but we shall see.
I am concerned when it's systemically restricted 450 hours minimum or 4 months or 6 months or 50 months or infinite months to Level 50.
Reaching Level 50 Adventurer in Ashes is not the end of Leveling - there are other progression paths besides Adventurer.
Ah flanker you miss me so much you are now just posting about me QQ I wasn't going to post anything after the video I think Steven summed it up pretty good! Plus it is called a job flanker and responsibilities I swear your like the having a third child but with high functioning autism.
Thoughts:
> If first ~10-15 levels are fast, 1-25 "roughly takes 100 hours" and XP curve is not linear, I'd actually be surprised to find out that it all somehow magically adds up to ~225 hours, especially taking into account him saying "he prefers it to be somewhat grindy".
> A curve change from ~10-25/15-25 is clearly not gonna get back to linear after level 25. So if 1-25 takes ~100 hours, I probably wouldn't expect 25-50 to be 125-150 hours. Probably something close to, at least 300h for the whole 1-50.
> If it's the case, then it's a bit better obviously, but in general - doesn't change the situation dramatically. A few extra weeks or a month for an average player won't really make that huge of a difference in MMO.
> But if it's the case, still better than nothing[/b][/quote]
Glad to see you found a paper bag to breath into and calm down. As for your thoughts wait for it I agree pretty much although I said before probably a +/- 50 hour variable which put it about 275 total but I could now see 300ish is probably more realistic after hearing Steven. Remember though this is the players who are racing to this finish not the regular player who is crafting, exploring and otherwise trying to enjoy the game even if they are playing 30 to 40 hours a week for them I would say at least double that estimate!
You know what else do I miss?
The answer to the question I've asked you 4 times already and it's the 5th one, that you are clearly not capable of providing. Is that true, huh?
I don't answer your questions because your replies are usually you took my words out of context or you manipulated the question. Plus I find your questions are usually nothing more than diversions a simple attempt to pull someone away from a flawed argument not a bad tactic but time consuming. I don't wish to engage in that I have way to much going on atm to waste my time on it otherwise I would especially a verbal one. I think you also miss the point when I say majority because if the majority after alpha 2 said we want level to take 3 time as long as it will currently I would be fine with that because the people have spoken. How long levelling is in a game is not what retains the most amount of players it's what levelling speed the most amount of players want that retains the most players because if they don't wanna play how do you retain them. I think you have lost sight of the MMO part of mmorpg. Players make the content the game is just the car we're all just riding in!
If your question is do I want a 1v1 debate I am not interested at the moment but once things settle down for me and we get to play some alpha 2 I would be up for a discussion. That's the real conversation we all will need to have anyway , everything else right now is just speculation.
But here you are, not capable of answering it and finally coming up with a lame excuse after the 5th time you've been asked to give an answer.
How do I know that this is a bs excuse? Very simple: instead of writing it, you could have simply given an answer - you didn't. And your "limited time" is another bs - there is a thing called "Last active" on your profile. You've been on the forum multiple times since I asked you the question. And you've spent time here.
> Debunked your nonsense again
> Debunked your lame excuse again
"Quod mens laeva vetat suadendo animusque sinister / Hoc saltim cupiant implere timore coacti"