Greetings, glorious testers!
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
If they are flagged or participate in opt-in PvP event, you'll see it anyway
P.S. Read the update in the first post
Much prefer people learn the game and become successful by developing a sense for their own character`s ability and its impact on others than just reading a bar.
Please remind me what version it was when L2 stopped dropping meaningful amounts of resources and things like that, on player death.
The internet at large tends to be unreliable about data for older MMOs, so I prefer to rely on experienced players.
You can't cc greens so that is one of the good things they decided on.
How can you make informed decisions on how to fight if you have zero idea on how much hit points someone has?
the statement I read "you should know what your abilities do" or "you should know how much health a player has" is telling of a complete lack of PVP experience .
how would one know if the target is being healed, attacked by other players, or used a health pot? let alone using any defensive cool downs or buffs?
Also what if I see a player in the world who actually needs help? I have no idea because I cant see their hit points to know if they need a heal.
What if I am fighting two people and I need to know who is getting lower faster so I can make a swap to kill someone?
If I am unable to see my target's hit points how am I to make a decision on when to crowd control their healer to secure a kill?
None of these points I have seen brought up.
In 2004, during the open beta phase of the game, I experienced frequent losses of key gear due to being player-killed (pk'd) and deaths to mobs.
Looking back at screenshots, it was probably around 2005-2006, approximately a year to two after the game officially launched, that was the last time I remember losing gear in player versus environment (pve) situations. Specifically, in Cruma Tower, I lost my gear due to accidental mob deaths. And memorable as it was key gear lost to a farmer.
Regarding player versus player (pvp) encounters, if flagged as a red player, I continued to lose most of my gear upon death, especially up until around 2010. There after only logged on a couple of times to say hi.
Agree. I'd like also hidden level for none members of your group. The skins/gear should give enough information about the power of a player. That's also why I don't like anarchic cosmetics that give the appearance of a donkey to a crocodile.
You do not understand the mind set of a pvper no one is going to protect you, stop thinking that is how the BH system is going to work. We are not talking about corrupted players we are talking about people avoiding corruption and getting you killed to mobs. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a BH and any other player in this case. Stop using that as an example you will not be safe anywhere involving mobs.
You are "bringing it back around" because your point is weak. You an fantasizing rp with BH in a way that doesn't even make sense with what is being talked about and than just randomly saying seeing hp makes it better without really backing it up.
Not seeing hp means you need to look at things and think about a situation rather than having your hand held. You have to trust in yourself, your knowledge you have gained, and the people you work with. It adds more complexity to the gameplay on top of placing another nail in the coffin for hp griefing.
So again where did it happen, and why did it happen? Was it being done in high level zones with valuable resources or was it being done in the starting area? It matters where as you are CONSENTING to potentially being messed with by other players in one of those areas.
There very much is a difference between someone who wants to roleplay as a bounty hunter and someone who does not. You could argue that's not a large subsect of the potential community, but if the popularity of roleplaying cops in games like GTA online, Rust, Mortal, Darkfall, etc shows anything its that this playstyle is both popular and engaging. No one is guaranteed to help you, but there are plenty of people who want to engage in that behavior.
I'd disagree that it showing healthbars makes you have to "look at things" in the game world and further complicates the combat system. Dota shows healthbars (and all stats) to all players, and its wildly more complicated than any MMO.
I'm bringing it back around as that is the topic of this post. You tend to get lost in the weeds and attempting to keep the dialogue about the specific topic is important. Do tell me more about what I've played, while being unable to engage in a dialogue, I do appreciate the gaslighting throughout your post.
Why does it matter where and what are you talking about with consenting? What does that have to do with avoiding the corruption system.
I keep trying to paint this clearly but you just are not getting it Feeding to people was a tool you use that was part of your kit in how people would view it. It is no different than attacking someone lol...But satisfying when you saw them die. Its like you asking where did you attack someone its not really relevant.
if the combat system is more complicated that means its a higher skill level you need and you need to pay even more attention to details to get information. That is literarily the default baseline.
Personally i don't kind dota complicated maybe cause I've played it too much even more so if you are trying to compare it to a mmorpg where you have like 30 skills instead of 4 (generally). With dota its more the variety and not knowing what to expect and per character really being that complex. Some character are literally right click bots some are a bit more complex but not really compared to a mmorpg if we are talking about team fighting situations.
Though you can make the argument the skill level is higher because of the elements of action combat compared to older tab target mmorpgs.
Location matters as the corruption system is in the game to add consequences to players who murder, but not all locations are equal. If you are going to a lawless zone you are consenting to the possibility of being murdered by other players. Having the ability to potentially dodge corruption in these areas is important as it allows players to be the villain with social consequences but without ingame consequences. This makes the world matter by giving the small-ball pk and antipk (or bounty hunter) guilds areas to operate and affect the map. If I'm choosing to farm in a certain area that takes 2-3 hours real time to get too, I'm going to want to see what guilds are in the area. What guild tags am I looking to be wary of? Who are their scouts? If I need help, who can help me?
I'm asking you the percentages of kills that happen by mobs because if its too high its a problem for the general population. Random Bob in a starter area shouldnt be worried about being murdered. If its happening in the starting zone that's a design problem and corruption should be tweaked specifically in those areas.
Current Dota has 12+ keybinds per character, gone are the days of one-handed skeleton king.
Does hiding information really make it more complicated? If yes, why not hide gear, class, level, guild tag, name, etc. I'd say you can have more intricate class design by showing HP pools. Let rogues take a perk that lets them deal more damage from behind if the target is above a certain percentage of health. Let bards give a better buff if the target their attacking is below a certain threshold. But all that stuff is a matter of opinion.
I dont know what you are talking about with different areas of corruption....all corruption works the same. Can we keep things in line with the clear aspects they have talked about it please. This is just kind of fantasy....corruption works the same minus the ocean where there is no corruption gain.
You are asking for information that is not relevant for a percent that is not going to be available and makes no sense to ask. You have a person that played the games for years telling you how it was, you have proof of devs commenting on it. If you want to keep being blind to facts so be it lol.
That isnt true you aren't using 12 abilities on Sk now are you using items that all have skills on it unless you are doing a certain type of build. Nor are you doing everything at once do to long cds. Dota is not that complex in terms of ability use...
Yes you shouldn't see some ones gear..... Level is fine so you can gauge a potential danger that can be your source of information on a potential threat. And of course letting players be mindful of a lower level that can give a lot of corruption. So it is in more benefit to those wanting to pvp tbh.
You are missing the point about showing hp and avoiding the corruption system. As you talk about a lot of things that are not really relevant to the disccusion like bh, etc. Either way if its viable people on the forum will realize in alpha 2 when they are playing.
A game where you cant see opponent HP doesnt prevent that issue sometimes happening - it still happened in L2.
Sometimes people are able to do it on purpose,sometimes it happens on accident.
The point is, if your issue is that people can sometimes avoid corruption if a mob kills a player, then that is what you should be arguing to close. Being able to see HP of an enemy is such a minor, insignificant aspect of that as to make it not even worth consideration as a fix.
If you really - and I mean *really* - want that situation fixed, you ask for all players that attacked another player within a number of seconds of them dying to all share in the corruption, as this closes literally all loop holes where players could avoid corruption.
The fact that you are arguing for no visible HP bar and not the above tells us all that you actually dont care about people being able to sometimes avoid corruption.
Like, we can all see it plain as day.
I've already made the point about before with corruption though people don't' agree on that exactly, BDO did a similar change by making it so you don't lose anything.
So corrupting a player and accepting your death is something that could work. Though you can still easily harass seeing their hp bar to keep them low out of combat and as they are fighting mobs be more careful on the amount of damage you do. Like keeping them at 30%-40% so the corruption timer will be long enough you don't get corrupted.
And yes there can be more than one reason, making things more competitive. Seeing a group fighting and not knowing their hp can be an advantage. As if they were all almost dead you you aren't going to know that so the first instinct might make you hesitate or not hold back. Increasing the general element of danger.
An increase in danger to you is a decrease to them. They may be almost dead, and if you could see their HP they would be in real danger. However, if you cant see their HP, that is making you less likely to attack, this removing some of that risk for them.
Thanks for the Information.
I wonder if this will anger the People who would love to have the HP invisible.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
In L2, the corruption system swung both ways.
There were occasions when we got intel from someone a certain player or group of players were closing in and likely to target our guild, so we deliberately prepared. When they arrived, someone in our group (or all) provoked/taunted them to initiate PvP.
However, by being prepared, our hit points were already reduced beforehand. Either did from mobs or by flagging on each other.
Then, we allowed them to inadvertently one or two tap kill one of our group members (someone sacrificed themselves for the team), causing them to turn red.
Consequently, we would retaliate en-force and reap the rewards of their dropped gear!
With no health bar and they had no idea; so they provoke pvp in the normal manner by just hitting a few times within the known number of likely shots short of a kill (+/- a crit) unintentionally kill, go red and end up being played themselves..
We did this on farmers a lot and selected enemy players. The farming team "enforcers" did not like going red but did try to clear areas to allow their own team to stay and remove unwanted pve`ers.
But should a friendly guild in fair play pk lose their gear, we usually gave back.
Right, and so my first thought with this is "why try to replicate that"?
Sure, people did this at times in L2, and it was probably somewhat unexpected by most that had this done to them.
However, why should that mean that this same thing needs to be done in Ashes? Rather than building the game to give us interesting ways to use the mechanics that were done in other games, give us new mechanics that require us to come up with new ways to do this.
I have absolutely no doubt people will attempt to do that same thing in Ashes - even with HP indicators. However, they will have to be cleaver and come up with a new way of doing it rather than regurgitating something that was done 20 years ago.
This
And by denying information you prevent the community from even attempting to create new solutions to the issue. The corruption changes, over and above what L2 had, create new angles.
Let the players explore the system and try to deal with it, don't do it for us.
The L2 devs didn't necessarily foresee all the ways people would use and abuse the systems. And that applies to both sides, the attacker AND the defender. The Ashes devs won't foresee everything either. Enable the players and and see what develops.
It revolved around desire for levels, territory, gear, and wealth.
The main tools for those who wanted progression were diplomacy or war.
If bosses, territories, castles, nodes or even xp areas provide value in Ashes, then can very much see similar again.