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Animation canceling, Dodging, weaving
Mag7spy
Member
Mag7spy
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
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Your desire for this game to have animation cancelling is the same as Dygz' for it to have such harsh corruption penalties that no one ever bothers him or my desire for those penalties to be balanced in such a way that I can PK a couple people a night (at my own lvl) and being able to remove that corruption in the dungeon where I killed those people, before BHs can catch me. All of those things are just wishes for the game and we have no clue which one will be the reality. Except in Dygz and mine cases it's purely up to balancing of a few number values, while in your case it's a whole damn mechanical design direction that's gotta be built from the ground up. And right now the info we do have is "no animation cancelling"
They also stated in the past nothing is finalized and no its really not the same. There is no reason someone can't use a dodge roll out of a skill at the start or during a skill if there is a threat. It adds a skill curve and helps with the fact some skills hold you in place making you be able to react to skills.
The comment was still yes int he video, and he could have said there isn't and reacted the same way about swords making you move slower. So we will see what happens but you can't change a answer that was given because you are against it. The most you can say is there is conflicting information with a comment from 5 years ago and the present...
And yes im 100% for animation cancelling and dodging mid out of skill that might lock you in place so you can dodge a move.
And as for my own feedback on this point. I don't care.
Well we will and its kind of a big thing in action combat, and no reason for it not to be there. Its the same way you can stop mid cast channeling by moving.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxNPWLnfqjw67k1ar6hf9-oWgTh8CoSeH2
A channeling spell can be cancelled midcast because the damage output is drawn out instead of being upfront.
I probably should've asked this way earlier, but how exactly does animation cancelling in BDO work? Or, more importantly, does the damage go through at the end of the attack animation or at the start?
Cause in my experience the attack check happens at the end of the animation so cancelling the animation stops the attack completely. From what I understand from just hearing about it, ESO players used anicancel because attack check was at the start of the animation so cancelling it would prevent you from wasting time on the full animation (correct me if I'm wrong, those who have played ESO). Which one was it in BDO?
BDO is a game with multihit moves, which can only be canceled at the correct times, like a fighting game.
If you cancel early, the rest of the hits don't happen.
Full Action games are a completely different style of thing than what Ashes is currently trying to be, so I suggest not drawing too many comparisons to what they do.
If we see any signs that Ashes has anything similar, we'll let people know in discussions since it will be important to consider, but for now, just assume it is MOBA style combat (Ashes) vs BDO style combat (its own thing that is familiar mostly to players of Eastern games and modern fighting games)
In the good way you stop your skill and go into another skill, so the stopped skill doesn't deal dmg. So you would use the other skill or cancel the animation by dodge.
Edit
Which helps since you can stop a long animation so you can react to something else. Its not something you should be able to spam every second though as everything has cooldowns.
If I can maximize my damage, while minimizing damage to me, all while using 3-5 second animation abilities - I'm at such a high understanding of the game flow and my current opponent that I can perfectly predict (or setup) timeframes where I can use those long casts w/o them losing their damage value.
One skill takes twitch skills and fast reactions, the other skill takes game knowledge and people understanding. To me those are equally-valued skills. To you, obviously, twitch skills are more important. Ideally Ashes can appeal to us both, but we'll have to see.
Again there is n reason why in tab target you should be able to break out of a skill early but not action combat by using your dodge. Nor does it mean every skill you are able to use a dodge for to break out of it early either. That is part of making the game feel more fluid for example the hammer attack if you started to use that skill but they dodged and were about to attack you, or another person was about to charge you it allows you to react to it. Which is a lot more fun and skill level increase then being a sitting duck.
The only reason not for animation cancelling is if you want people to be locked in animation, which in the end will feel more clunky if you don't have highs and lows of control with a character. Only reason is tab target players want an advantage against players that use action skills freely being able to cancel all their skills if cast times are involved.
Weaving like in ESO is trash, tho.
1. Broken animation cancels shouldn't be included (allows your skills to do more damage)
2. You shouldn't be able to animation cancel every skill sometimes its only at the beginning
3. It shouldn't be spammed every second
4. Damage is stopped upon animation cancel of the current skill used.
Correct.
Being stuck in every ability without being able to cancel or dodge out of it will make the game feel clunky, akin to new world. And that depends on the length of the animations. If they are short it won't be as bad. But the hammer one and spinning ability there is no reason to not be able to dodge roll out of that and have control of your character.
So you should only be able to stop tab target abilities during cast time???
Animation cancel does not make gameplay look like garbage just because you can roll out of the spin and cancel it early as an example. I don't see where you are getting this from, what exact part looks like garbage and why? The spin is the same besides it ending early and you are just doing your dodge, nothing about that is out of the ordinary?
In what way does animation cancelling add fluidity to combat? It just makes your skills n/ability trigger faster, speed ≠ fluidity. Having to live through like 0.2 seconds of the attack ending sequence is not going to kill you, nor does it somehow make combat clunkly. I'd argue that if someone needs animation cancelling to defeat their opponent, then said persons skill level really isn't that high in the first place.
1. Animation cancel shouldn't be used to make your skills trigger faster, its either it does the dmg or it does not do the damage.
2. If you are doing a spinning attack where you are standing still for 1 minimum that is a lot of time in a pvp fight. Not having control of your character adds a clunky feel if you feel you are constantly rooted and never have an escape.
3. That isn't how skill level work, you don't get a higher skill level game by making it so a person has to sit still at all times. You have a higher level skill game when you have multiple choices when to use the dodge, when to bait someone , knowing when to hold your resources and when to spend them effectively. What you are saying is the opposite as you are trying to have more forced opening, on the player so they can't react.
Archeage had very few animation cancelable skills[like 1 per main skills tree(melee,archer and mage)] Mage's God's whip for example, it had a very small GCD and had "charges" so you could animation cancel with other skills between each of the charges usage basically negating the game's GCD and it became even more pronounced with high Attack Speed stats(Attack speed directly reduced gcd and increased animation speed of almost all skills).
Lineage 2 doesn't have GCD, and animation canceling there was more of an visual illusion than an actual thing, like in Archeage, Lineage 2 had stats that would influence the animation speed of skills, those being attack speed(for physical skills) and casting speed(for magic skills), above a certain threshold of those stats some skill animations would simple not keep up with the speed the skills would apply its damage and that + no GCD gave the impression of visually animation canceling.
Talking in general i don't think Ashes will have Animation cancels, but who knows, there might be a few deviant skills here and there that might allow such things, but other than that, Ashes in alpha 1 had Magical Casting Speed as a benefit of the Wisdom Stat https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Stats , who knows what possibilities this stat may create, i believe the faster you can push the animation speed of a skill the more it gives the illusion of animation canceling even if only by few frames..
Aren't we all sinners?
No, it can definitely kill you.
1. I'm sorry but you're being overly dramatic if waiting half a second or less for your attack animation to finish equates to standing still, not having control over your character(when you're literally the one who performed the attack) and/or combat being clunky in pvp.
2. And once again I'd argue it doesn't bring any high skill ceiling at all, if you need to cancel your animation to dodge, block etc.. because you noticed your opponent one-uped you at that time then you're just running away; just learn to better read your opponent and make the appropriate decisions next time. You do homeever have a point with baiting as it can help there.
3. All in all AC just seems to benefit people with much higher reaction reaction time rather than skill.
What you just described here is NOT animation cancelling.
This is often referred to action/skill cancelling and will almost certainly be part of the game as far as I know.
Animation cancelling is when you stop a skill's animation after its effect has been applied, even though its animation didn't end yet. This would allow you to execute multiple actions in a shorter time than you are "normally" supposed to.
As long as the effect of the skill doesn't register, you are NOT animation cancelling, you are cancelling the skill/action itself.
In the dev discussion an overwhelming majority said they dont want animation canceling or weaving
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