You have a reduced risk if you right back....why do you need any more incentive? You literally never even drop equipped gear. Adding containers that remove drops literally defeats the whole purpose. And reduced rate already exists, just fight back.
incentive for what? the question this whole thread is about is answering:
"what tools or activities would gatherers like to see to help protect their hard-earned materials while adventuring in Verra?
I think in the roleplaying aspect of the game, if I have taken the time to master a set of crafting skills in a world of pvp I would have also learned how to better hide those tradeskill items as I travel in the world if for no other reason than out of the need to if I want to become a master craftsmen.
I am not advocating for it to be reduced to 0 but I don't think a 25% reduction from the default rate is an unreasonable amount (for someone at max reduction rate), or perhaps having a smaller container that I can place the rarer items in that give me a boosted rate to better increase my odds of not dropping that thing I just farmed hours for. Again, not reducing it to 0 just something more than the default value as a benefit of having mastered a skill.
You talk as if fighting back is a better choice for everyone, always. I can assure you that not everyone will be good enough that fighting back is their best option. There are going to be some people that, either due to terrible skill, gear, level or number of other reasons, will still have 0 chance at winning the fight. For those people, a better option might be to not fight back at all.
Maybe the attacker will realize that they are gonna have to eat a corruption cost in order to find out what items that person is holding/going to drop and have to decide if it's worth it. Maybe they will decide that it's not worth it and leave. If not they at least eat the corruption cost and the person being killed can hope that their death is the one that pushes that person over the limit to get flagged on the map. Or maybe they think that if the person has to eat a corruption cost they won't come back to that area once they have killed them so now they are free (at least for a time) to farm the area for resources unmolested.
Everyone is so gung-ho about pvping and no one ever stops to think about making pvper's think of the cost. It's just an afterthought. I like that the pve people have a weapon of their own to use against pvp folks that isn't just joining the pvp side of the argument. I want to make a pvp person have to keep in the back of their mind that if they don't see me swinging they need to be mindful of that. Maybe they are wacking away at me and I am jousting them like i'm fighting them (just doing a crap job of it) but if they aren't paying attention they are going to eat a corruption for killing my empty bags and crap farming gearset.
Or maybe I'm the bait for a group that's waiting in a freehold 1 minute away and I just need to keep them fighting and die just before the group arrives to kill the now corrupt flagged player and get that much more loot from them.
pvpers already have to think about their consequences T_T
if you reduce the risk for the gatherers, why not reduce the reward as well? or why not reduce the risk for the pvper too? what makes you so special or different? why r u entitled to more protection than me? pvers already have it hard when they have to deal with pve griefers, karma bombers, mob droppers... and on top of that people wanna add less risk for greens and more punishment for combatants xDD
I am in the camp less concerned with people loosing their gathered resources. It is a part of the game. I want to see how a PvX game works. That said, how about we address what can be done if a bunch of 'gathererer carebears' butcher their competition to hold down and monopolize a node or several nodes' resources. Are we forced to find a node they aren't in control of and make war? I mean, it sounds like a pretty cruddy situation...
I am in the camp less concerned with people loosing their gathered resources. It is a part of the game. I want to see how a PvX game works. That said, how about we address what can be done if a bunch of 'gathererer carebears' butcher their competition to hold down and monopolize a node or several nodes' resources. Are we forced to find a node they aren't in control of and make war? I mean, it sounds like a pretty cruddy situation...
Or an epic revenge story.
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
What do yall think of adding in a pvp protection item that you have to buy, that protects you from pvp for a short time. you wanna leave town, but dont want to risk pvp? buy this item that shields you from pvp damage for some time and go do your thing. no separate servers. no turning off pvp with a button. but a limited time pvp shield that you have to buy and use in the city. any thoughts? I know im late to the party.
What do yall think of adding in a pvp protection item that you have to buy, that protects you from pvp for a short time. you wanna leave town, but dont want to risk pvp? buy this item that shields you from pvp damage for some time and go do your thing. no separate servers. no turning off pvp with a button. but a limited time pvp shield that you have to buy and use in the city. any thoughts? I know im late to the party.
I am in the camp less concerned with people loosing their gathered resources. It is a part of the game. I want to see how a PvX game works. That said, how about we address what can be done if a bunch of 'gathererer carebears' butcher their competition to hold down and monopolize a node or several nodes' resources. Are we forced to find a node they aren't in control of and make war? I mean, it sounds like a pretty cruddy situation...
Or an epic revenge story.
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
Honestly with that mentality I'd definitely argue to not allow any bonuses or perks to reduce ganking other than the corruption system. If noncombatants are that influential, there should be a force to keep them in check.
I am in the camp less concerned with people loosing their gathered resources. It is a part of the game. I want to see how a PvX game works. That said, how about we address what can be done if a bunch of 'gathererer carebears' butcher their competition to hold down and monopolize a node or several nodes' resources. Are we forced to find a node they aren't in control of and make war? I mean, it sounds like a pretty cruddy situation...
Or an epic revenge story.
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
Honestly with that mentality I'd definitely argue to not allow any bonuses or perks to reduce ganking other than the corruption system. If noncombatants are that influential, there should be a force to keep them in check.
This isn't quite the same, though I agree with you mostly (I don't mind perks that reduce or mitigate DROPS only the kind that change attacker behaviour).
There's always an average player and the hardcore player.
The average PvE player probably isn't bringing down the dragon. The average PvP player probably isn't being chosen for the Siege Assault, and the average Econ player probably isn't sitting on a pile of gold the size of a small house.
So when Steven talks about crafting being important, he's not necessarily talking about the same thing we're even talking about in this thread. Most Gatherers at the level of 'Control the Economy' don't need protections, but this wouldn't be for them.
I am in the camp less concerned with people loosing their gathered resources. It is a part of the game. I want to see how a PvX game works. That said, how about we address what can be done if a bunch of 'gathererer carebears' butcher their competition to hold down and monopolize a node or several nodes' resources. Are we forced to find a node they aren't in control of and make war? I mean, it sounds like a pretty cruddy situation...
Or an epic revenge story.
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
PvP-ers will not afford paying the rent in metropolises
To lvl 3 with them.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
I am in the camp less concerned with people loosing their gathered resources. It is a part of the game. I want to see how a PvX game works. That said, how about we address what can be done if a bunch of 'gathererer carebears' butcher their competition to hold down and monopolize a node or several nodes' resources. Are we forced to find a node they aren't in control of and make war? I mean, it sounds like a pretty cruddy situation...
Or an epic revenge story.
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
PvP-ers will not afford paying the rent in metropolises
To lvl 3 with them.
It is the duty of the Mayor to pay for the accommodations of the Mayoral Guard.
And semi-seriously related, do we really want a game where people are bickering over 'I contracted a bodyguard but they lost the fight so I shouldn't have to pay them since I lost all my resources anyway'.
What do yall think of adding in a pvp protection item that you have to buy, that protects you from pvp for a short time. you wanna leave town, but dont want to risk pvp? buy this item that shields you from pvp damage for some time and go do your thing. no separate servers. no turning off pvp with a button. but a limited time pvp shield that you have to buy and use in the city. any thoughts? I know im late to the party.
sure why not. u also get half the materials you would get while gathering/farming/hunting whatever
Ashes is for the most part non fast travel. Open pvp in this setting sets up some of the best gaming experiences there is.
Say your mining a rare mineral and someone comes and kills you for it. You now respawn and tell your friends hey come help me get rid of this guy I want to farm in peace.That is a completely organic pvp scenario that creates its own story.
On the other hand this guy coming to kill someone for materials is now risking being overrun. So I believe he should be rewarded xp and raw gatherable loot for the kill because he now faces being killed himself. He now has to either flee or stand his ground because everything is local and he can't just teleport away so actions have consequences and risk has reward its brilliant.
Something as simple as someone cutting down a tree can spark a full on war and the potential for something like that to happen creates the most memorable and fun gameplay you can have.
So please don't turn this into another care bear MMO and stay true to Steven's vision of risk vs reward open world pvp.
What do yall think of adding in a pvp protection item that you have to buy, that protects you from pvp for a short time. you wanna leave town, but dont want to risk pvp? buy this item that shields you from pvp damage for some time and go do your thing. no separate servers. no turning off pvp with a button. but a limited time pvp shield that you have to buy and use in the city. any thoughts? I know im late to the party.
No. No cash shop outside of cosmetics. Nothing that changes game play in anyway then intended. No. I don't want that for this game. I want people to have to interact with one another, form alliances, socialize, and plan. I want to make that jerk that thinks it is okay to try and mine the same resource node I had to fight mobs tooth and nail, that it is not okay, and I can and will kill for it. I might be fair. But you see me fighting for that ore vien and think your so sneaky? I'm going to shove this pick so far up your arse that I can fly you like a flag on a pole!
Late to the thread, have read a lot of replies but not all. So I am just going to lay some thoughts and ideas out at the risk of repeating something suggested..
This game has the intended design of resources being contested. Encouraging players towards PvP and defending themselves. Exemplified by the fact combatants drop less resources, aiming to encourage players to try their luck in a fight.
In an ideal scenario... however players will often not find themselves in an ideal scenario, instead they may be severely outnumbered outgeared or both.
So in the above situation how do we make sure the gatherer is encouraged towards solutions rather than discouraged and too disheartended is an important design question.
Resources can be "contested" without players having to die. Death and the loss of resources is a large time sunk penalty for the gatherer. But being denied access to nodes by aggressors is also a penalty and form of contest and control.
So for the situations where gatherers are outnumbered and cant be encouraged to risk it in a fight, let them choose flight. Perhaps Some gatherer gear could give some long cooldown escapes (speed boosts, fast mounting, stealthing) With the attached penalty of reduced combat effectiveness for some time after using these 'get out of jail cards'.
This would still result in gatherers losing access to the resources, but escaping with their lives and mats this once, dodging the zerg. Maybe the gatherer can then come back with a group?
To this point maybe when green players respawn in town after being ganked, they can be promted to report the crime to a bulletin board or something similar, so that disgruntled players can start to from groups, somewhat organically, maybe take the fight back to their agressors.
I mention this as an addition to the already existing bounty hunter system, to encourage social play.
Along this same theme of social play, a lot of people have suggested various things like gear progression reducing dropped materials or hidden pockets etc. I might just suggest that what if some of these benefits be given conditionally who to those who gather in groups. For example 'x' friendly players near by reduces dropped mats on death or increases rarity of materials gathered by some balanced amount.
Now the reason I suggest this is to encourage group play, but moreover to mitigate against the more toxic zerg scenario I outlined above. If the gatherers want to gather in groups, and a group of gankers look to attack them, maybe now the math becomes a bit better, and the gatherers may decide to fight for what they have, in which case you have encouraged the intended interaction.
Seeing as gathering gear sits below our combat gear, and crafted gear is on par if not better than any found gear. Gatherers can join the fight at their choosing, just need to make that choice more palatable.
Anyway these are just some ideas. Risk is important, but I think its important if gatherers find themselves facing outnumbered or "unfair" scenarios they can be encouraged towards solutions rather than disheartened.
Late to the thread, have read a lot of replies but not all. So I am just going to lay some thoughts and ideas out at the risk of repeating something suggested..
This game has the intended design of resources being contested. Encouraging players towards PvP and defending themselves. Exemplified by the fact combatants drop less resources, aiming to encourage players to try their luck in a fight.
In an ideal scenario... however players will often not find themselves in an ideal scenario, instead they may be severely outnumbered outgeared or both.
So in the above situation how do we make sure the gatherer is encouraged towards solutions rather than discouraged and too disheartended is an important design question.
Resources can be "contested" without players having to die. Death and the loss of resources is a large time sunk penalty for the gatherer. But being denied access to nodes by aggressors is also a penalty and form of contest and control.
So for the situations where gatherers are outnumbered and cant be encouraged to risk it in a fight, let them choose flight. Perhaps Some gatherer gear could give some long cooldown escapes (speed boosts, fast mounting, stealthing) With the attached penalty of reduced combat effectiveness for some time after using these 'get out of jail cards'.
This would still result in gatherers losing access to the resources, but escaping with their lives and mats this once, dodging the zerg. Maybe the gatherer can then come back with a group?
To this point maybe when green players respawn in town after being ganked, they can be promted to report the crime to a bulletin board or something similar, so that disgruntled players can start to from groups, somewhat organically, maybe take the fight back to their agressors.
I mention this as an addition to the already existing bounty hunter system, to encourage social play.
Along this same theme of social play, a lot of people have suggested various things like gear progression reducing dropped materials or hidden pockets etc. I might just suggest that what if some of these benefits be given conditionally who to those who gather in groups. For example 'x' friendly players near by reduces dropped mats on death or increases rarity of materials gathered by some balanced amount.
Now the reason I suggest this is to encourage group play, but moreover to mitigate against the more toxic zerg scenario I outlined above. If the gatherers want to gather in groups, and a group of gankers look to attack them, maybe now the math becomes a bit better, and the gatherers may decide to fight for what they have, in which case you have encouraged the intended interaction.
Seeing as gathering gear sits below our combat gear, and crafted gear is on par if not better than any found gear. Gatherers can join the fight at their choosing, just need to make that choice more palatable.
Anyway these are just some ideas. Risk is important, but I think its important if gatherers find themselves facing outnumbered or "unfair" scenarios they can be encouraged towards solutions rather than disheartened.
or you could just group up with people...like you would normally would in any other game withotu any reports or bulletin boards or anything.
Some Ideas I was inspired with from other games with pvp/loot systems.
Oddly enough one of my favorite pvp/loot systems ive played with was from The Division Dark zones.(Before they made it easy)
Things that were really nice: (there were some gear differences, but i dont think they really made a huge difference, skill was the bigger factor)
- You got the best loot so high reward.
- pvp felt very optional, but always a threat.
- certain zones for turning in(extracting) gear/loot were shared, tho had some interesting terrain to give good combat.
- Pvp wasnt just about killing of random nude gatherers, it was a system that if you choose to kill someone for their stuff then you would be hunted down by the other players.
- Everyone was armed so pvp was very skill based and made good builds and teams much more important, than running a single build thats good for killing weak players.
- There were places that felt more defendable if you were attacked and could make it there, or were on the run after killing people.
- The punishment for dying in general was very severe and much more severe for killing players. I think this honestly is very important. (for pvp the reward is high, but the risk can be immense if you arent prepared to pay it.)
- Npc werent just push over and were a real threat. This makes having good gear very important for high level pve, and to be prepared for a gank.
My Take aways and what i would like to see:
- A Pvp system that rewards really high(full drops) but makes pvp players have to really want it and be prepared for the consequences.
- Something like a horn that can call allies or other players to help if you are attacked as a gatherer or non pvper. (You would need to have a good record with the area to have the horn so peeps dont abuse)
- have systems in place to have guards for gatherers/caravan defenders so that the defenders get very good rewards for completing their mission(encourages good players to defend)
- Give gatherers and weaker combatants better gear for getting away or call allies for help(speed/stealth/etc. so it doesn't feel so hopeless to run away/survive long enough.)
- Make groups that go pvping together be bigger targets to be hunted. Single assasins would be better at stealth, where as warparties would be seen coming. That way big groups would have a solid disadvantage instead of being the best choice always.
These are just a few of my ideas. I really enjoyed playing pvp when it felt like you had to be intentional with it, but also it was fun trying to kill someone then get out or hold down a fort until they gave up. it gave a lot more reward for pvp and pve players actually felt empowered to fight back/ work together and not always scatter.
@Wasilah ganking people has nothing to do with cost and rewards, sometimes we will gank someone just because we are bored or because the guy looks dumb
Some people probably will start hitting you as bait, if you don't fight back they will probably leave.
It could be nice picking a fight with a green by casting a spell that has almost no damage just to tease the guy, maybe he wants to fight, who knows
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Would be fun if a certain PVP area or PVP event had full loot drops, then people would just wear the cheapest stuff possible... if you want to bring the good stuff it's on you
Then if you kill someone who looted many he will look like a loot piñata
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Would be fun if a certain PVP area or PVP event had full loot drops
I imagined something like that too. A hc-PvP-island in a PvP ocean. No death penalties, no exp-debt...nothing. It shouldn't have any exclusive content(except maybe a title or smthg cosmetic) and should only be profitable on a good run. So noone has to go there, but you have a real hc-PvP zone and an area where you really should only go with many friends, because there be dragons.
On topic: Could also steer away some of the more toxic PKers from the gatheres.
what i would like to see:
- A Pvp system that rewards really high(full drops) but makes pvp players have to really want it and be prepared for the consequences.
- Something like a horn that can call allies or other players to help if you are attacked as a gatherer or non pvper. (You would need to have a good record with the area to have the horn so peeps dont abuse)
- have systems in place to have guards for gatherers/caravan defenders so that the defenders get very good rewards for completing their mission(encourages good players to defend)
- Give gatherers and weaker combatants better gear for getting away or call allies for help(speed/stealth/etc. so it doesn't feel so hopeless to run away/survive long enough.)
- Make groups that go pvping together be bigger targets to be hunted. Single assasins would be better at stealth, where as warparties would be seen coming. That way big groups would have a solid disadvantage instead of being the best choice always.
These are just a few of my ideas. I really enjoyed playing pvp when it felt like you had to be intentional with it, but also it was fun trying to kill someone then get out or hold down a fort until they gave up. it gave a lot more reward for pvp and pve players actually felt empowered to fight back/ work together and not always scatter.
Make dropped ressources be "stolen" non-tradeable, only sellable to NPCs(at a good market price), or usable in processing crafting. It would also make gathering more rewarding, because lost ressources don't reach the free market, or are lost completely.
Make dropped ressources be "stolen" non-tradeable, only sellable to NPCs(at a good market price), or usable in processing crafting. It would also make gathering more rewarding, because lost ressources don't reach the free market, or are lost completely.
I like the basic concept, but I would modify it by making the "stolen" flag local only. Once the marked resource is moved to another node (leaving the zone of influence by x node(s)) it would be gone. That way, the people looting others will have to either carry the materials on themselves for a longer period of time (and thus risking losing it by being killed themselves), or transport the resources through the caravan systems (a PvP centred gameplay).
Make dropped ressources be "stolen" non-tradeable, only sellable to NPCs(at a good market price), or usable in processing crafting. It would also make gathering more rewarding, because lost ressources don't reach the free market, or are lost completely.
I like the basic concept, but I would modify it by making the "stolen" flag local only. Once the marked resource is moved to another node (leaving the zone of influence by x node(s)) it would be gone. That way, the people looting others will have to either carry the materials on themselves for a longer period of time (and thus risking losing it by being killed themselves), or transport the resources through the caravan systems (a PvP centred gameplay).
I like this suggestion. Attack on sight from town guards too? NPCs refuse to buy stolen goods?
Make dropped ressources be "stolen" non-tradeable, only sellable to NPCs(at a good market price), or usable in processing crafting. It would also make gathering more rewarding, because lost ressources don't reach the free market, or are lost completely.
I like the basic concept, but I would modify it by making the "stolen" flag local only. Once the marked resource is moved to another node (leaving the zone of influence by x node(s)) it would be gone. That way, the people looting others will have to either carry the materials on themselves for a longer period of time (and thus risking losing it by being killed themselves), or transport the resources through the caravan systems (a PvP centred gameplay).
I like this suggestion. Attack on sight from town guards too? NPCs refuse to buy stolen goods?
Only the NPCs having to manipulate the goods (if we were to roleplay the interactions) should have a different reaction to the stolen flag. So, no special reaction from the guards. NPCs vendors could buy at a lower price than they would otherwise pay or refuse to buy if it was stolen from a citizen of the node. There could also be variations depending on the type of node, perks from social organization the seller has, rules set by the mayor/citizens, etc. So some cities could be pirate heaven accepting anything at no penalty and other strict law abiding node where stolen items can only be traded on the black market a.k.a the players.
*edit: Other players interacting with the items should also see the tag, and decide how to react to it.
Make dropped ressources be "stolen" non-tradeable, only sellable to NPCs(at a good market price), or usable in processing crafting. It would also make gathering more rewarding, because lost ressources don't reach the free market, or are lost completely.
First i would like to say that i really like the concept which you have about gathering and pvp so far, but I have a question. As far as i understand the idea of the corruption system is to heavely reduce griefing without sacrificing open world pvp (which is great i really love that), but there is something which i dont understand. As it is written bellow
"The primary means to remove corruption is through death. Multiple deaths may be necessary to remove all corruption.[34][35]
Dying removes a significant portion of a player's corruption score.[36]"
Corrupted players can remove significant portion of corruption by just dying, and when they die they can drop gear which they wear and the other penalties for dying are x4. Does that incentivize a corrupted player to just go out naked with everything stashed in a bank and just die again and again to clear his corruption without any meaningful penalties and then just go back to the bank take his items and start pking and griefing again?
He would accrue death penalties and his experience debt will stay, but it should work, yes. They'll calibrate it in a way, that questing and killing mobs is the preferable way. You can get rid of the corruption(risk of dropping items) that way but it would probably take longer to get rid of debuffs and negative XP.
One problem I see, is with the bounty hunter system. What will keep you from gifting a bounty, that's on your head to a buddy of yours?
You can get rid of the corruption(risk of dropping items) that way but it would probably take longer to get rid of debuffs and negative XP.head to a buddy of yours?
Exactly this is my concern and i have seen that happen many times in L2 and perfect world, so a red person just call a friend to kill him to cleanse his corruption without the risk of loosing anything, which in my opinion is the main factor which would make a griefer think twice. If this penalty can be bypassed in this simple way then it is not very effective or i just misunderstand the system. I think the cleansing of corruption should require from the corrupted person to go out in the world geared and risk his gear for his actions.
One problem I see, is with the bounty hunter system. What will keep you from gifting a bounty, that's on your head to a buddy of yours?
Exactly this. I have bounty on my head and i can loose my gear so i call a friend to kill me while i am naked to cleanse me and also earn the bounty. Even if i am not naked the friend will just loot me and give me back my items ... i am not sure that dying as corrupted person should cleanse you because this could be abused
But i really like the bounty idea, one of my favorite activities was aways to hunt down griefers
Yes... you can chose. Get rid of debuffs/exp debt faster by questing/grinding but risk loosing an item, or avoid loosing an item, but having an unplayable char for a long time. I don't see the problem.
The only problem is the bounty/bountypoints you could give to someone of your choosing.
Yes... you can chose. Get rid of debuffs/exp debt faster by questing/grinding but risk loosing an item, or avoid loosing an item, but having an unplayable char for a long time. I don't see the problem.
The only problem is the bounty/bountypoints you could give to someone of your choosing.
it depends what is "long time" if i can get rid of my corrupted by just getting killed by a friend without loosing anything and then just keep my char logged in to cleanse thats a potential problem, because griefers usually play more than 1 char anyway so there is no problem to bench one char for a while if it means that it will be cleansed without any real penalties. Thats why i believe cleansing your character from corruption should aways put you in a risk to loose your items by forcing you out in the wild with your gear on (some kind of quests or killing strong mobs or etc).
Comments
pvpers already have to think about their consequences T_T
if you reduce the risk for the gatherers, why not reduce the reward as well? or why not reduce the risk for the pvper too? what makes you so special or different? why r u entitled to more protection than me? pvers already have it hard when they have to deal with pve griefers, karma bombers, mob droppers... and on top of that people wanna add less risk for greens and more punishment for combatants xDD
Or an epic revenge story.
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
No
Honestly with that mentality I'd definitely argue to not allow any bonuses or perks to reduce ganking other than the corruption system. If noncombatants are that influential, there should be a force to keep them in check.
This isn't quite the same, though I agree with you mostly (I don't mind perks that reduce or mitigate DROPS only the kind that change attacker behaviour).
There's always an average player and the hardcore player.
The average PvE player probably isn't bringing down the dragon. The average PvP player probably isn't being chosen for the Siege Assault, and the average Econ player probably isn't sitting on a pile of gold the size of a small house.
So when Steven talks about crafting being important, he's not necessarily talking about the same thing we're even talking about in this thread. Most Gatherers at the level of 'Control the Economy' don't need protections, but this wouldn't be for them.
PvP-ers will not afford paying the rent in metropolises
To lvl 3 with them.
It is the duty of the Mayor to pay for the accommodations of the Mayoral Guard.
And semi-seriously related, do we really want a game where people are bickering over 'I contracted a bodyguard but they lost the fight so I shouldn't have to pay them since I lost all my resources anyway'.
Ah, the horror stories.
sure why not. u also get half the materials you would get while gathering/farming/hunting whatever
Say your mining a rare mineral and someone comes and kills you for it. You now respawn and tell your friends hey come help me get rid of this guy I want to farm in peace.That is a completely organic pvp scenario that creates its own story.
On the other hand this guy coming to kill someone for materials is now risking being overrun. So I believe he should be rewarded xp and raw gatherable loot for the kill because he now faces being killed himself. He now has to either flee or stand his ground because everything is local and he can't just teleport away so actions have consequences and risk has reward its brilliant.
Something as simple as someone cutting down a tree can spark a full on war and the potential for something like that to happen creates the most memorable and fun gameplay you can have.
So please don't turn this into another care bear MMO and stay true to Steven's vision of risk vs reward open world pvp.
No. No cash shop outside of cosmetics. Nothing that changes game play in anyway then intended. No. I don't want that for this game. I want people to have to interact with one another, form alliances, socialize, and plan. I want to make that jerk that thinks it is okay to try and mine the same resource node I had to fight mobs tooth and nail, that it is not okay, and I can and will kill for it. I might be fair. But you see me fighting for that ore vien and think your so sneaky? I'm going to shove this pick so far up your arse that I can fly you like a flag on a pole!
*Makes angry Craglorn gathering noises from ESO.*
This game has the intended design of resources being contested. Encouraging players towards PvP and defending themselves. Exemplified by the fact combatants drop less resources, aiming to encourage players to try their luck in a fight.
In an ideal scenario... however players will often not find themselves in an ideal scenario, instead they may be severely outnumbered outgeared or both.
So in the above situation how do we make sure the gatherer is encouraged towards solutions rather than discouraged and too disheartended is an important design question.
Resources can be "contested" without players having to die. Death and the loss of resources is a large time sunk penalty for the gatherer. But being denied access to nodes by aggressors is also a penalty and form of contest and control.
So for the situations where gatherers are outnumbered and cant be encouraged to risk it in a fight, let them choose flight. Perhaps Some gatherer gear could give some long cooldown escapes (speed boosts, fast mounting, stealthing) With the attached penalty of reduced combat effectiveness for some time after using these 'get out of jail cards'.
This would still result in gatherers losing access to the resources, but escaping with their lives and mats this once, dodging the zerg. Maybe the gatherer can then come back with a group?
To this point maybe when green players respawn in town after being ganked, they can be promted to report the crime to a bulletin board or something similar, so that disgruntled players can start to from groups, somewhat organically, maybe take the fight back to their agressors.
I mention this as an addition to the already existing bounty hunter system, to encourage social play.
Along this same theme of social play, a lot of people have suggested various things like gear progression reducing dropped materials or hidden pockets etc. I might just suggest that what if some of these benefits be given conditionally who to those who gather in groups. For example 'x' friendly players near by reduces dropped mats on death or increases rarity of materials gathered by some balanced amount.
Now the reason I suggest this is to encourage group play, but moreover to mitigate against the more toxic zerg scenario I outlined above. If the gatherers want to gather in groups, and a group of gankers look to attack them, maybe now the math becomes a bit better, and the gatherers may decide to fight for what they have, in which case you have encouraged the intended interaction.
Seeing as gathering gear sits below our combat gear, and crafted gear is on par if not better than any found gear. Gatherers can join the fight at their choosing, just need to make that choice more palatable.
Anyway these are just some ideas. Risk is important, but I think its important if gatherers find themselves facing outnumbered or "unfair" scenarios they can be encouraged towards solutions rather than disheartened.
or you could just group up with people...like you would normally would in any other game withotu any reports or bulletin boards or anything.
Oddly enough one of my favorite pvp/loot systems ive played with was from The Division Dark zones.(Before they made it easy)
Things that were really nice: (there were some gear differences, but i dont think they really made a huge difference, skill was the bigger factor)
- You got the best loot so high reward.
- pvp felt very optional, but always a threat.
- certain zones for turning in(extracting) gear/loot were shared, tho had some interesting terrain to give good combat.
- Pvp wasnt just about killing of random nude gatherers, it was a system that if you choose to kill someone for their stuff then you would be hunted down by the other players.
- Everyone was armed so pvp was very skill based and made good builds and teams much more important, than running a single build thats good for killing weak players.
- There were places that felt more defendable if you were attacked and could make it there, or were on the run after killing people.
- The punishment for dying in general was very severe and much more severe for killing players. I think this honestly is very important. (for pvp the reward is high, but the risk can be immense if you arent prepared to pay it.)
- Npc werent just push over and were a real threat. This makes having good gear very important for high level pve, and to be prepared for a gank.
My Take aways and what i would like to see:
- A Pvp system that rewards really high(full drops) but makes pvp players have to really want it and be prepared for the consequences.
- Something like a horn that can call allies or other players to help if you are attacked as a gatherer or non pvper. (You would need to have a good record with the area to have the horn so peeps dont abuse)
- have systems in place to have guards for gatherers/caravan defenders so that the defenders get very good rewards for completing their mission(encourages good players to defend)
- Give gatherers and weaker combatants better gear for getting away or call allies for help(speed/stealth/etc. so it doesn't feel so hopeless to run away/survive long enough.)
- Make groups that go pvping together be bigger targets to be hunted. Single assasins would be better at stealth, where as warparties would be seen coming. That way big groups would have a solid disadvantage instead of being the best choice always.
These are just a few of my ideas. I really enjoyed playing pvp when it felt like you had to be intentional with it, but also it was fun trying to kill someone then get out or hold down a fort until they gave up. it gave a lot more reward for pvp and pve players actually felt empowered to fight back/ work together and not always scatter.
Some people probably will start hitting you as bait, if you don't fight back they will probably leave.
It could be nice picking a fight with a green by casting a spell that has almost no damage just to tease the guy, maybe he wants to fight, who knows
Then if you kill someone who looted many he will look like a loot piñata
I imagined something like that too. A hc-PvP-island in a PvP ocean. No death penalties, no exp-debt...nothing. It shouldn't have any exclusive content(except maybe a title or smthg cosmetic) and should only be profitable on a good run. So noone has to go there, but you have a real hc-PvP zone and an area where you really should only go with many friends, because there be dragons.
On topic: Could also steer away some of the more toxic PKers from the gatheres.
Great ideas. I like. Bump.
I like the basic concept, but I would modify it by making the "stolen" flag local only. Once the marked resource is moved to another node (leaving the zone of influence by x node(s)) it would be gone. That way, the people looting others will have to either carry the materials on themselves for a longer period of time (and thus risking losing it by being killed themselves), or transport the resources through the caravan systems (a PvP centred gameplay).
I like this suggestion. Attack on sight from town guards too? NPCs refuse to buy stolen goods?
Only the NPCs having to manipulate the goods (if we were to roleplay the interactions) should have a different reaction to the stolen flag. So, no special reaction from the guards. NPCs vendors could buy at a lower price than they would otherwise pay or refuse to buy if it was stolen from a citizen of the node. There could also be variations depending on the type of node, perks from social organization the seller has, rules set by the mayor/citizens, etc. So some cities could be pirate heaven accepting anything at no penalty and other strict law abiding node where stolen items can only be traded on the black market a.k.a the players.
*edit: Other players interacting with the items should also see the tag, and decide how to react to it.
this is going into the right direction imo
First i would like to say that i really like the concept which you have about gathering and pvp so far, but I have a question. As far as i understand the idea of the corruption system is to heavely reduce griefing without sacrificing open world pvp (which is great i really love that), but there is something which i dont understand. As it is written bellow
"The primary means to remove corruption is through death. Multiple deaths may be necessary to remove all corruption.[34][35]
Dying removes a significant portion of a player's corruption score.[36]"
Corrupted players can remove significant portion of corruption by just dying, and when they die they can drop gear which they wear and the other penalties for dying are x4. Does that incentivize a corrupted player to just go out naked with everything stashed in a bank and just die again and again to clear his corruption without any meaningful penalties and then just go back to the bank take his items and start pking and griefing again?
Thanks for your time and best regards!
One problem I see, is with the bounty hunter system. What will keep you from gifting a bounty, that's on your head to a buddy of yours?
Exactly this is my concern and i have seen that happen many times in L2 and perfect world, so a red person just call a friend to kill him to cleanse his corruption without the risk of loosing anything, which in my opinion is the main factor which would make a griefer think twice. If this penalty can be bypassed in this simple way then it is not very effective or i just misunderstand the system. I think the cleansing of corruption should require from the corrupted person to go out in the world geared and risk his gear for his actions.
Exactly this. I have bounty on my head and i can loose my gear so i call a friend to kill me while i am naked to cleanse me and also earn the bounty. Even if i am not naked the friend will just loot me and give me back my items ... i am not sure that dying as corrupted person should cleanse you because this could be abused
But i really like the bounty idea, one of my favorite activities was aways to hunt down griefers
The only problem is the bounty/bountypoints you could give to someone of your choosing.
it depends what is "long time" if i can get rid of my corrupted by just getting killed by a friend without loosing anything and then just keep my char logged in to cleanse thats a potential problem, because griefers usually play more than 1 char anyway so there is no problem to bench one char for a while if it means that it will be cleansed without any real penalties. Thats why i believe cleansing your character from corruption should aways put you in a risk to loose your items by forcing you out in the wild with your gear on (some kind of quests or killing strong mobs or etc).
yes thats why in my example i said that the corrupted person bank his stuff not just put them in the inventory.