I don't know what you mean by "pay extra" if the paid BP gives you 7+ Cosmetics for the price of one Cosmetic in the Shop and also gives you a bunch of Embers that can be used to purchase even more Cosmetics.
If you don't want to pay for it; don't pay for it.
You are ignoring your own comment - you are once again only talking about the cosmetics.
Battlepasses help entice players who are motivated by doing a variety of Tasks beyond combat to earn Cosmetics
You have made this statement, but you have not explained why people that are enticed by these tasks should pay extra, when people enticed by raids, dungeons, PvP or crafting do not need to pay extra.
Keep in mind, this is YOUR argument here that i am questioning. If you want to argue that the above is what a battlepass is in WoW, you need to justify why that is OK.
I don't know what you are trying to say here.
The Traveler's Pavilion where you get your Season Pass Cosmetics is new content. It would not exist without the WoW Battlepass.
It may not exist, but something would exist on its place.
When WoW first added mounts for sale, they didn't hire a new developer to make them.
What they did is make it so the character art team needed to make 4 less character models for each mount they wanted to add, and put that spare time towards the mounts. The mounts exist in exchange for more character models (mobs, specifically).
With battlepass, they are taking the content design team, asking them to produce fewer quests, and putting that spare time toward battlepass.
Basically, The Traveler's Pavillion exists in exchange for about 8 - 10 hours of proper questing that now will never exist. It isn't additional content above and beyond what would exist if battlepass wasn't a thing, it is content that exists instead of better content that would have existed.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yes, WoW's application is probably the most immersive one. And if it wasn't limited or fomoed to all hell (I know you'll say it isn't in your opinion) - it'd be a great thing for Ashes to have.
How is the Wow Battlepass fomo when you can save items you want to purchase for future months if you don't earn enough for all the items you want in the current month?
What's the limit?
Except I'd simply go back to me saying "why even have this, when we already have tasks that can do the literal same thing and just reward cosmetics as well".
So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
You have made this statement, but you have not explained why people that are enticed by these tasks should pay extra, when people enticed by raids, dungeons, PvP or crafting do not need to pay extra.
Battlepasses help entice players who are motivated by doing a variety of Tasks beyond combat to earn Cosmetics (but who are not motivated to primarily repeat Dungeons and Raids in pursuit of BiS gear) to play many hours after the new "content" in the DLCs has been completed - where "content" refers to Quests, NPCs, mobs, gear.
Battlepasses are going to appeal more to Casual Challenge players than to Hardcore Challenge players.
If you want a bunch of extra Embers and Cosmetics in addition to the free ones, pay for the paid Legendary Path.
If you don't want a bunch of extra Embers and Cosmetics in addition to the free ones, don't pay for the paid Legendary Path.
I did explain.
Doing BP Tasks to earn Cosmetics is similar to doing Quests for Gear, the differences are that Tasks are simpler and quicker to complete than a Quest. And you complete several Tasks to earn a BP reward.
Also, BP Tasks are account-wide and include every category of activities in the game. Including Dungeons and Raids.
Keep in mind, this is YOUR argument here that i am questioning. If you want to argue that the above is what a battlepass is in WoW, you need to justify why that is OK.
I don't have to justify why it's OK because "paying extra" isn't really a thing.
The only thing that might be considered "paying extra" is "if you want a bunch more Cosmetics at a huge Discount (rather than paying full Shop prices) and you want even more Embers - you can pay for the paid track of the BP for ~$10 which tends to be around the cheapest price of a Cosmetic in the Shop.
If you don't want to purchase the paid track of the BP - don't purchase the paid track of the BP".
Playing the free path of a BP is not paying extra.
All of which I explained in previous posts.
You are ignoring your own comment - you are once again only talking about the cosmetics.
What? Did you just skip the part where I mentioned Dungeons, Raiding and BiS gear?
Thst literally has nothing to do with it.
It would have made as much sense if you talked about how Bolivian bananas float in sea water, but Colombian bananas don't.
You can't just talk about some random unconnected thing, and then point to it when people say you haven't addressed something.
People that raid, craft or PvP do not need to pay extra for content. They get all of that content for the box/subscription cost.
Why then do people that want these tasks need to pay the box/subscription cost, and the battlepass cost in order to have access to all of their content?
You literally have not addressed this at all.
Doing BP Tasks to earn Cosmetics is similar to doing Quests for Gear, the differences are that Tasks are simpler and quicker to complete than a Quest. And you complete several Tasks to earn a BP reward.
You are doing that thing where you attempt to justify WHAT a battlepass is, while completely ignoring WHY.
Playing the free path of a BP is not paying extra.
All of which I explained in previous posts.
The fact that the free aspect of it exists does not excuse the fact that the paid for aspect of it exists.
Why should the above people that want those tasks have to pay additional money on top of the box/subscription to have access to all of the content within their sphere, when raiders, crafters and PvP'ers get all of the content within their sphere without needing to pay extra.
Yes, there is a free aspect to it, but there is also a not free aspect to it. It is that not free part that is the question, and once again the fact that there is a free aspect does not at all excuse the not free part.
The basic fact is, if that content is something that a developer considers worth having in game - those tasks that you talk about above - then they should just be in the game, not as some paid for addition.
Why then do people that want these tasks need to pay the box/subscription cost, and the battlepass cost in order to have access to all of their content?
Battlepass typically has a free path. And then, if you want extra stuff on the Battlepass, you pay for the preimum path - which will get you more stuff at a heavily discounted price.
It's as if you cannot read the word free.
You literally have not addressed this at all.
Why should the above people that want those tasks have to pay additional money on top of the box/subscription to have access to all of the content within their sphere, when raiders, crafters and PvP'ers get all of the content within their sphere without needing to pay extra.
I literally did address it.
Battlepass typically has a free path, so they don't have to pay additional money.
If they want to pay additional money for additional stuff, they have an option to pay for additional stuff.
Why do they have to pay for Cosmetics from the Cosmetics Store??
Yes, there is a free aspect to it, but there is also a not free aspect to it. It is that not free part that is the question, and once again the fact that there is a free aspect does not at all excuse the not free part.
If you want the additional stuff on the BP, you pay for access to the additional stuff.
If you don't want additional stuff, don't pay for access to the addtional stuff.
And the carrot to pay for the additional stuff is that it's 80%-90% discounted compared to the Cosmetics Store.
The basic fact is, if that content is something that a developer considers worth having in game - those tasks that you talk about above - then they should just be in the game, not as some paid for addition.
LMAO
That is an opinion; not a fact.
BP Tasks are in the game similar to how Achievements are in the game.
When you pay for extra stuff on the premium path, you aren't getting extra BP Tasks. You're just getting extra rewards for completing the exact same Tasks as the free BP path.
How is the Wow Battlepass fomo when you can save items you want to purchase for future months if you don't earn enough for all the items you want in the current month?
What's the limit?
There should be no damn limit. Any limit would only exist to force people to play more or to keep paying the sub (AND potentially play more) even if they might not have anymore content to do.
If you can't buy all the things that were added at any time - that's fomo. If you're told that these things "will return at some point in the future" - that's just a scam for you to keep your sub, because you might MISS OUT on the rerun.
And as I said before, if the rerun happens as a full copy of the previous BP, this would simply mean that BP doesn't serve its purpose, because anyone who had completed the original run of the BP would not have any reason to play the game outside of the normal content that was added during the BP rerun's season.
And if the rerun is done by simply adding more items into the store - the people would have to choose between the new cosmetics and the rerun cosmetics, while they only have currency for one of them (and that is if they even can complete the BP during that season).
All of this is a damn scam, but it's obvious that both you and Mag are either not seeing it or are completely fine with being used.
So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.
No, I expect bulletin board tasks which will already be in the game. And as I've been saying from literally my first comment in this thread - why have a BP when we already have a system that does the same thing but w/o the BP implications.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There should be no damn limit. Any limit would only exist to force people to play more or to keep paying the sub (AND potentially play more) even if they might not have anymore content to do.
If you can't buy all the things that were added at any time - that's fomo. If you're told that these things "will return at some point in the future" - that's just a scam for you to keep your sub, because you might MISS OUT on the rerun.
What are you even talking about? What limit?
Limit is not a thing.
Battlepass gives you some free Cosmetics that you don't have to purchase from the Cosmetics Store.
Ashes already has plenty of fomo in the main design - without a Cosmetics Store and without a BP.
Ashes is a dynamic game - you cannot experience all of the things or collect all of the things - because stuff will be locked out based on the combinations of Nodes/Government/Racial distribution/Social Orgs/Religions and Events.
The Cosmetics Store already has plenty of fomo.
Typically I'm not going to pay Cosmetic Store prices because they are too expensive. I'm rarely going to pay $25 for a Mount or $35 for a Freehold Skin.
I might pay $10 to get 7 Basic Mounts + 1 Epic Mount + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff or to get 5 Freehold Skins + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff.
What is the scam to keep the sub for rerun?
What even is a rerun? I have no clue what you're talking about.
Seems like you are just making shit up in your own head... again.
And as I said before, if the rerun happens as a full copy of the previous BP, this would simply mean that BP doesn't serve its purpose, because anyone who had completed the original run of the BP would not have any reason to play the game outside of the normal content that was added during the BP rerun's season.
It's not going to be a full copy of a previous BP - again, that is something that you're making up in your own head to try to find some way for BPs to suck. Because you think they have to suck some kinda way.
Some items on a BP may return on a future BP. For sure Embers will always be on the BP. Actually, Embers will likely always appear in bulk multiple times on every Ashes BP. And then some individual Cosmetics might appear on a future BP.
For instance, the current Fortnite BP has 6 new Characters related to the new BR Story (mash-up of Mad Max + Fallout):
The Machinist; Rust; Peabody; Scarr; Bright Raider; and Megalo Don.
I will get a LEGO version of each of them (and a BR version of each of them)
The BP also includes 7 BR variants of each of those characters. (Which I don't care about.)
I get the BP as a perk for being a member of the Fortnite Crew - which is $11 per month.
I purchase the Fortnite Crew monthly because I get a cool new character every 1st of each month - June was:
Without the BP, Jing would cost 2K vBucks in the Item Shop. ~$18
Fortnite Crew costs $11 (1.2K vBucks): Character Skin + 1K vBucks + BP + Racing BP
The BP is going to have 6+ more Character Skins + 1K vBucks + a bunch of other stuff.
I can finish the BP in one month - so for the price of 1 premium skin:
I get back the price of the premium skin in vBucks.
I also get +7 new Characters
I also get a bunch of other stuff, mostly for the BR and Racing Game Modes.
(I could also unlock the Bonus track and earn another 1K vBucks + 6 different BR Character Variants + a bunch of other BR items.)
So... I could jump out of the Fortnite Crew for 2 months since I'm not interested in the 2 BR Character Variants for Jul and Aug.
Total Win/Win
In 30 days, Magneto unlocks on the BP. For LEGO and the BR, it's a variant of Magneto that fits the theme of the current story: Wastelander Magneto. Fortnite Crew costs $11 (1.2K vBucks) < 1.5K vBucks
May 15th - May 18th, 2024, the Item Shop had some X-Men Characters for sale - each for 1.5K:
Rogue and Gambit (or as a Bundle for 2.1K). Prior to that, available Jan 14th - Jan 17th and Aug 19th - 31st.
Psylock, Cable and Domino (or as a Bundle for 3K). Also, available Jan 14th - Jan 17th and Aug 19th - 31st.
X-23, Dark Phoenix. Also, available Aug 19th - 31st, 2023 and Mar 5th - 11th 2023.
The cheapest way for me to acquire Magneto any time soon is via the Fortnite Crew with the July 2024 BP.
Otherwise, I have to hope that Magneto will be added to the Item Shop in Jan 2025.
We are expecting a Fortnite x Marvel Event in Aug 2024 - the next Season Event (Chapter 5: Season 4).
Most likely, the BP will include 7 Marvel Characters. Doctor Doom is likely to be one of those. There might be some X-Men Characters on the BP. Unlikely that Magneto will reappear on the BP that quickly.
Someone who doesn't care about Magneto and the X-Men might choose not to pay for the Fortnite Crew for July and Aug and/or wait for Season 4 to drop before re-joining Fortnite Crew.
And if the rerun is done by simply adding more items into the store - the people would have to choose between the new cosmetics and the rerun cosmetics, while they only have currency for one of them (and that is if they even can complete the BP during that season).
I already told you that with Fortnite, all of the fomo exists in the Item Shop; not in the BP.
I think the choice you are trying to describe, here, is that people would have to choose between the full price items in the Store and the 80%-90% discounted items in the BP.
An item will not appear in the Shop and the BP at the same time.
People will most likely either choose to get the free or heavily discounted items in the BP rather than pay full price in the Cosmetics Store.
I'm probably not going to pay $35 or $50 for a Freehold Skin from the Cosmetics Store more frequently than once or twice a year.
I will happily pay $25 (sub + BP pass) each month to earn 5 Freehold Skins + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff by completing BP Tasks. Assuming I like the Cosmetics offered via the BP on any individual month.
So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.
I expect bulletin board tasks which will already be in the game. And as I've been saying from literally my first comment in this thread - why have a BP when we already have a system that does the same thing but w/o the BP implications.[/quote]
I have no clue what you think you mean by BP implications.
Ashes will have Bulletin Board Tasks, but Bulletin Board Tasks cannot do the same thing as BP Tasks without having BP implications.
Of course, what you mean by BP implications are a fantasy you've concocted in your own head.
It's like saying we can't land a rocket on the Moon because the rocket is too heavy and would sink into the green cheese you think the Moon is made of.
Just because it seems like the universe is geocentric from your pov does not mean the universe is truly geocentric.
(Achievements offering discounted Cosmetics and Embers, instead of/or in addtion to offering Titles, makes more sense than equating Bulletin Board Tasks with BP Tasks.)
In general I think BPs are stupid. You buy something that gives you something if you additionally spend time in the game..? I think its a concept that prays on fomo and adds pressure to play a game to complete the pass. Even though, I think BPs have a place in F2P MMOs as their kind of subscription model I prefer "VIP-Auras" or similar things. Where you get what you pay for without additional work you need to put in. But the developer somehow has to make a living and if BPs are their way of doing it, why not.
When you have a box prices and/or a subsciption model I dont want to see a BP, a VIP model and honestly no costume or QoL cash shop either. You pay enough for the game already, companies wanting more are too greedy for my taste. Dont earn enough? Raise the prices or changes your model. I dont really like the concept of bought costumes in mmos, I prefer to have to earn the best looking armor ingame like the old days. Achieve it by playing the game not by swiping your credit card this way you can be proud of it.
What are you even talking about? What limit?
Limit is not a thing.
Limit on the monthly currency in relation to how many there are and how much the items cost. WoW's BP gives you 1k points a month and literally the first item on the BP's season costs 900 points. This is the limit.
What is the scam to keep the sub for rerun?
What even is a rerun? I have no clue what you're talking about.
Seems like you are just making shit up in your own head... again.
The limit that I explained above means that you'll need to continue playing and accruing points if you want to buy as much stuff as you want.
You've literally said yourself that items on the BP come back (and I even disregarded the contradicting information from videos) in later BPs. This is the "rerun". No matter which form/way/method they come back in - it's gonna be detrimental to the overall BP experience, as I've already explained twice before.
Someone who doesn't care about Magneto and the X-Men might choose not to pay for the Fortnite Crew for July and Aug and/or wait for Season 4 to drop before re-joining Fortnite Crew.
And if "Magneto" was on a rerun (meaning that some people have gotten him in the past) - people might not want to play the game for more than the seasonal content requires.
Which then means that your point of "BP makes people play for longer" doesn't apply to BP seasons where high value cosmetics come back into the rotation. This also serves a double purpose against Mag's point of "BP makes money", because if BPs have a fomo rotation then the company will inevitable get less money on the rerun.
I could literally point towards Mihoyo games as proof, for their character banner reruns always make less money (unless the character has become meta in the meantime, while it wasn't perceived as one on the first run of the banner).
I already told you that with Fortnite, all of the fomo exists in the Item Shop; not in the BP.
And I keep telling you that this price and the so called "discount" is a scam.
If a shop sold toys and there were 2 ABSOLUTELY SAME TOYS in 2 aisles, but in one aisle the toy costed $5, while in the other it costed $10. And the first toy was on "discount", but with literally 0 difference between the two. Would you not think that you're being scammed on the price of the second toy?
The toy obviously cost the manufacturers the same amount to produce, but there's 2 prices to full the buyer into thinking "ohhh, I'll get one over on this seller if I purchase the cheaper one heheh", when it's obvious beyond belief that it's the buyer who's getting fooled. This is the most basic marketing ploy and both you and Mag seem to be falling head over heels for it.
BP is not a "discount". It's simply closer to the real cost of the items being sold, while singular cosmetics fool people into thinking that by buying a BP they're getting a good deal. I want Intrepid to be more honest than that.
And yes, Ashes has already had a ton of fomo. And that shit has made it seem like a scam to thousands of people. I don't want the same to happen to the game on release. And yet here you are being completely complacent with the "expected" course of things. Why settle for shit, when you can have chocolate?
Oh, and on the topic of Embers in BPs. If the free path of a completed BP gives us enough Embers to buy even just a $5 cosmetic - that means that our subs are valued at ~$13.5 rather than $15 (given that the BP is in fact 3 months long).
And if the paid BP gives even more Embers, that means that cosmetics' value is even lower than whatever's the BP cost divided by all of its cosmetics is.
So in either case we'd be getting even more fucked over if Embers were in the BP.
Getting money to go towards renewing a sub from playing a game is getting f'd over
What do you mean by this exactly?
The sub cost doesn't change. Its value is simply lower to Intrepid, because they'd be giving out a cosmetic for it instead of expecting people to buy said cosmetic. This would mean that Intrepid are upselling us on the sub cost.
Getting money to go towards renewing a sub from playing a game is getting f'd over
What do you mean by this exactly?
The sub cost doesn't change. Its value is simply lower to Intrepid, because they'd be giving out a cosmetic for it instead of expecting people to buy said cosmetic. This would mean that Intrepid are upselling us on the sub cost.
You are making that up, you have to finish the battel pass to even get all the items (embers if they add that). Not to mention not everyone is going to buy it. It makes 0 sense for you to feel they are upselling a sub cost.
The only reasonable way you could make this argument imo is if the battlepass cost more than any other battlepass by the cost of the embers they give you.
Which honestly isn't reasonable to assume, buy buying the premium and finishing it up get some free embers that is a net positive for everyone.
What should happen, if a game that you are already paying for wan'ts a battlepass, is that they should introduce tasks, and then reward players that complete them with the cosmetic items.
That is it.
Any notion of anything paid is where the issue is - as I have said.
Again, the issue is that the people you are talking about need to pay extra in order to recieve all the rewards from the content they prefer. They should not have to pay extra, if that piece of content rewards a given cosmetic, they should get that cosmetic for completing that piece of content.
Imagine the shitstorm that raiders would bring down on Blizzard if they offered additional rewards for raiders that paid extra...
You are making that up, you have to finish the battel pass to even get all the items (embers if they add that). Not to mention not everyone is going to buy it. It makes 0 sense for you to feel they are upselling a sub cost.
Mag, I laid out my explanation.
If the completed FREE BP gives us enough Embers to get a $5 cosmetic - this means that Intrepid is ok with not selling that $5 cosmetic. This, in turn, means that they're ok with losing out on the $5 value across 3 months of subs. Which means that the cost of this cosmetic eats into the sub cost.
And the ~$13.5 only matter in the context of casuals completing the BP. Because, as Dygz loves to repeat, the current BPs can be finished way faster than even a single month. So any hardcore-time player's sub would then cost $10 to intrepid.
And again, this is if the Embers amount to only $5. Anything more is obviously even worse.
And to reiterate my point. If Intrepid are ok with me paying a "$10 sub" - why are they asking for $15?
Though this part of my argument is the weakest point, because I personally don't believe that we'd get Embers, even if we do get a BP. And I know that Dygz will say "they already gave Embers in APOC and other games do this as well, which is why I expect this".
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Where you get what you pay for without additional work you need to put in. But the developer somehow has to make a living and if BPs are their way of doing it, why not.
I mean... the devs/publisher get more money from Store/Shop purchases.
But, the players who like Cosmetics will happily play the game for more hours with a BP than they would if they immediately get the Cosmetics by direct pay at full price.
The 80%-90% discount on items + Embers/vBucks/Traveler's Tender is worth doing stuff in the game that you like to but want some new rewards besides another Achievements Title.
You are making that up, you have to finish the battel pass to even get all the items (embers if they add that). Not to mention not everyone is going to buy it. It makes 0 sense for you to feel they are upselling a sub cost.
Mag, I laid out my explanation.
If the completed FREE BP gives us enough Embers to get a $5 cosmetic - this means that Intrepid is ok with not selling that $5 cosmetic. This, in turn, means that they're ok with losing out on the $5 value across 3 months of subs. Which means that the cost of this cosmetic eats into the sub cost.
And the ~$13.5 only matter in the context of casuals completing the BP. Because, as Dygz loves to repeat, the current BPs can be finished way faster than even a single month. So any hardcore-time player's sub would then cost $10 to intrepid.
And again, this is if the Embers amount to only $5. Anything more is obviously even worse.
And to reiterate my point. If Intrepid are ok with me paying a "$10 sub" - why are they asking for $15?
Though this part of my argument is the weakest point, because I personally don't believe that we'd get Embers, even if we do get a BP. And I know that Dygz will say "they already gave Embers in APOC and other games do this as well, which is why I expect this".
It means if you finish the battle pass you get some currency back meaning buying the next battle pass will be at a reduced price so long as you finish it, or in some cases being able to finish a battle pass and get the next one fully free (though this is usually for fully free to play model with a much longer battle pass).
BP has nothing to do with sub (to play the game) so you shouldn't be trying to compare it as there should be no p2w in a battle pass.
It means if you finish the battle pass you get some currency back meaning buying the next battle pass will be at a reduced price so long as you finish it, or in some cases being able to finish a battle pass and get the next one fully free (though this is usually for fully free to play model with a much longer battle pass).
Even if this IS true - that's literally the same thing I'm complaining about, except even worse if those embers give us a completely free paid BP.
BP has nothing to do with sub (to play the game) so you shouldn't be trying to compare it as there should be no p2w in a battle pass.
Again, to me it's about the difference between what Intrepid gets and what we pay. Read my example about the 2 toys and tell me, is that a scam for you or is that a "oh, nice, I get a discounted toy"?
Because if you're ok with that kind of monetization - you simply won't understand my point.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Getting money to go towards renewing a sub from playing a game is getting f'd over
What do you mean by this exactly?
The sub cost doesn't change. Its value is simply lower to Intrepid, because they'd be giving out a cosmetic for it instead of expecting people to buy said cosmetic. This would mean that Intrepid are upselling us on the sub cost.
I think Mag is talking about earning WoW Tokens or Gold to cover the price of a monthly sub.
I'm not sure a sub will be possible with Embers for Ashes.
But, in Fortnite, I can earn 1K vBucks on the Battlepass each month - plus a bunch of Characters at 80% - 90% discount and a bunch of other stuff. The Fornite Crew costs around 1.2K vBucks per month.
Effectively, the BP covers the cost purchasing the Fortnite Crew Membership.
But... Fortnite makes most of its money from the Item Shop.
I don't know why you say "giving out a Cosmetic" and "the Cosmetic".
A free Battlepass typically has 10+ Cosmetics in addition to Embers/vBucks/Traveler's Tender.
The paid path of a Battlepass also typically has 10+ Cosmetics.
So, they give away 10 for free and then offer another 10 at a 80% - 90% discount.
The sub is going to be near the industry standard for a sub. At least $10, if not $15.
Just as the prices in the Cosmetic Shop are going to be near the industry standard(s).
Paid Battlepass would also be near the industry standard of $10. (New World is $10 every 3 months?)
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Limit on the monthly currency in relation to how many there are and how much the items cost. WoW's BP gives you 1k points a month and literally the first item on the BP's season costs 900 points. This is the limit.
Sorry. I have no clue what you mean.
You just make shit up because you haven't played and you have to try to make the systems seem as bad as possible.
XP is not the same thing as Traveler's Tender.
You get 500 Traveler's Tender at the start of each month.
Asmon's video shows the page about the BP. You get 500 for login in and then get 500 for doing the BP tasks. That's 1k. And the items cost from 100 up to 900.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
And I keep telling you that this price and the so called "discount" is a scam.
If a shop sold toys and there were 2 ABSOLUTELY SAME TOYS in 2 aisles, but in one aisle the toy costed $5, while in the other it costed $10. And the first toy was on "discount", but with literally 0 difference between the two. Would you not think that you're being scammed on the price of the second toy?
The toy obviously cost the manufacturers the same amount to produce, but there's 2 prices to full the buyer into thinking "ohhh, I'll get one over on this seller if I purchase the cheaper one heheh", when it's obvious beyond belief that it's the buyer who's getting fooled. This is the most basic marketing ploy and both you and Mag seem to be falling head over heels for it.
BP is not a "discount". It's simply closer to the real cost of the items being sold, while singular cosmetics fool people into thinking that by buying a BP they're getting a good deal. I want Intrepid to be more honest than that.
And yes, Ashes has already had a ton of fomo. And that shit has made it seem like a scam to thousands of people. I don't want the same to happen to the game on release. And yet here you are being completely complacent with the "expected" course of things. Why settle for shit, when you can have chocolate?
Sorry, but this is flawed and kinda dumb.
If at all the stores I go to, Funko Pops are $10.
Then I go to one store where there is an aisle with Funko Pops for $10 and another aisle for $5, I'm gonna buy the ones in the aisle where I can buy them for $5.
And, if the guy tells me he will give me 7 for free and sell 7 of them to me for $1 a piece if I spend 9 hours per week helping him with his PCs and giving him some dancing lessons. I will happily spend 9 hours "working" for those 14 Funko Pops - because I already spend 9 hours per week giving free dance lessons and helping people with their PCs. And I have fun doing that.
Especially if I typically spend $100 a month collecting Funko Pops and I really want to spend $200+ per month on Funko Pops.
I'm going to ask why they are selling them for $5.
I can tell you now, they are doing it for their benefit, not yours.
Why not both?
The benefit with a Battlepass is that the devs/publishers retain more players longer compared to not having a BP.
And it's good for an MMO to have more people playing - rather than a 60% to 75% population drop.
Especially for Fortnite - it means that players will be more likely to check their Item Shop daily or weekly... and purchase something there.
I'm going to ask why they are selling them for $5.
I can tell you now, they are doing it for their benefit, not yours.
Why not both?
The benefit with a Battlepass is that the devs/publishers retain more players longer compared to not having a BP.
And it's good for an MMO to have more people playing - rather than a 60% to 75% population drop.
Right, so if that is the benefit, why are developers charging for it?
In a free game like Fortnite, whatever. In a game with a subscription, if that content brings in or keeps in players, then have it as a part of the game itself - not as an option extra.
Again, you seem to be missing the point. We are not saying the tasks and the cosemtics shouldn't exist (that is a different argument) - we are saying that if they exist, if the developer thinks they bring people in to the game, then they should just be a part of the game as opposed to an optional extra. Sure, they can be the "free" path you like to keep bringing up that doesn't matter at all - but why does there also need to be the paid part?
Why not just have all the cosmetics be a part of a free path that has even more tasks, thus keeping people in the game even longer.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 3
Probably the same reason why grocery stores sometimes have Buy Two For The Price Of One.
The WoW Battlepass is free.
Again - I have no clue what you mean by "part of the game" and "optional extra".
The WoW Battlepass is a part of the game. And it's as much of an optional extra as doing Endgame Dungeons and Raids.
Why not just have all the cosmetics be a part of a free path that has even more tasks, thus keeping people in the game even longer.
Intrepid might do that. Similar to WoW.
I expect Ashes to have a Battlepass.
Could be that the Battlepass is free, like WoW.
Could be that the Battlepass includes a paid path, like APOC.
I don't really know what you mean by "even more Tasks" - BP Tasks are quite extensive.
It wouldn't really be " even more BP Tasks" that keep people playing longer. It would be closer to more rewards so that it takes longer to collect them all.
Which WoW might already do. Kinda.
Probably the same reason why grocery stores sometimes have Buy Two For The Price Of One.
Speaking from first hand experience here.
If a grocery store has a deal like this, there is a very high chance that they are squeezing their supplier.
If the store is buying in an item for $2 and selling it for $3, if they put a 2 for 1 special on that item, they are probably telling their supplier (telling, not asking) that they are buying that item that week/month for $1 rather than the normal $2.
Sometimes grocery stores sell items cheap as loss leaders, but if they are doing this they are increasing the price of other items in order to cover that loss. This is actually less common than the above, but stores are quite happy for people to think this is always the case. Even when this is the case, there is usually an increase in price of other more common items (milk, bread etc), or items that go with the item with the deal (hotdog deal, but hotdog rolls are increased in price, for example).
Point is, deals are never put in for the benefit of the consumer.
Never.
I don't really know what you mean by "even more Tasks" - BP Tasks are quite extensive.
You are aware that "more" is subjective, right?
If we are talking about 2, then "more" is anything more than 2.
If we are talking about a million, "more" is anything more than a million.
I can't understand how you can claim to not know what "even more tasks" means.
I expect Ashes to have a Battlepass.
Why?
We already know Ashes will have cosmetics able to be earned in game, we know Intrepid have been told by us players that we don't want brain dead tasks like those in a battlepass, why would they add one?
Then you have the fact that the general atmosphere of Ashes is non-conductive to tasks like a battlepass would have. If they did add it, you can guarantee that the areas people need to go to add those tasks would be a hotbead of both PvP and griefing (or boarderline griefing).
In a game like Ashes, a WoW style battlepass would see people leave the game, not remain longer.
If there is a Stufferton on there, it could possibly entice me to go above 0 Kills.
Ironically, I would even pay more than $75 to FFA PvP in the Open Seas for more than 100 hours if the reward was a Stufferton.
Comments
You are ignoring your own comment - you are once again only talking about the cosmetics.
Your comment was; You have made this statement, but you have not explained why people that are enticed by these tasks should pay extra, when people enticed by raids, dungeons, PvP or crafting do not need to pay extra.
Keep in mind, this is YOUR argument here that i am questioning. If you want to argue that the above is what a battlepass is in WoW, you need to justify why that is OK.
It may not exist, but something would exist on its place.
When WoW first added mounts for sale, they didn't hire a new developer to make them.
What they did is make it so the character art team needed to make 4 less character models for each mount they wanted to add, and put that spare time towards the mounts. The mounts exist in exchange for more character models (mobs, specifically).
With battlepass, they are taking the content design team, asking them to produce fewer quests, and putting that spare time toward battlepass.
Basically, The Traveler's Pavillion exists in exchange for about 8 - 10 hours of proper questing that now will never exist. It isn't additional content above and beyond what would exist if battlepass wasn't a thing, it is content that exists instead of better content that would have existed.
What's the limit?
So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.
I did explain.
Doing BP Tasks to earn Cosmetics is similar to doing Quests for Gear, the differences are that Tasks are simpler and quicker to complete than a Quest. And you complete several Tasks to earn a BP reward.
Also, BP Tasks are account-wide and include every category of activities in the game. Including Dungeons and Raids.
I don't have to justify why it's OK because "paying extra" isn't really a thing.
The only thing that might be considered "paying extra" is "if you want a bunch more Cosmetics at a huge Discount (rather than paying full Shop prices) and you want even more Embers - you can pay for the paid track of the BP for ~$10 which tends to be around the cheapest price of a Cosmetic in the Shop.
If you don't want to purchase the paid track of the BP - don't purchase the paid track of the BP".
Playing the free path of a BP is not paying extra.
All of which I explained in previous posts.
It would have made as much sense if you talked about how Bolivian bananas float in sea water, but Colombian bananas don't.
You can't just talk about some random unconnected thing, and then point to it when people say you haven't addressed something.
People that raid, craft or PvP do not need to pay extra for content. They get all of that content for the box/subscription cost.
Why then do people that want these tasks need to pay the box/subscription cost, and the battlepass cost in order to have access to all of their content?
You literally have not addressed this at all. You are doing that thing where you attempt to justify WHAT a battlepass is, while completely ignoring WHY. The fact that the free aspect of it exists does not excuse the fact that the paid for aspect of it exists.
Why should the above people that want those tasks have to pay additional money on top of the box/subscription to have access to all of the content within their sphere, when raiders, crafters and PvP'ers get all of the content within their sphere without needing to pay extra.
Yes, there is a free aspect to it, but there is also a not free aspect to it. It is that not free part that is the question, and once again the fact that there is a free aspect does not at all excuse the not free part.
The basic fact is, if that content is something that a developer considers worth having in game - those tasks that you talk about above - then they should just be in the game, not as some paid for addition.
~ We are lured by the Battlepass ~
~ Made privileged by the Battlepass ~
~ Undone by the Battlepass ~
~ Our Wallets are yet to open ~
~ FEAR the Battlepass ~
...
Battlepass typically has a free path. And then, if you want extra stuff on the Battlepass, you pay for the preimum path - which will get you more stuff at a heavily discounted price.
It's as if you cannot read the word free.
I literally did address it.
Battlepass typically has a free path, so they don't have to pay additional money.
If they want to pay additional money for additional stuff, they have an option to pay for additional stuff.
Why do they have to pay for Cosmetics from the Cosmetics Store??
If you want the additional stuff on the BP, you pay for access to the additional stuff.
If you don't want additional stuff, don't pay for access to the addtional stuff.
And the carrot to pay for the additional stuff is that it's 80%-90% discounted compared to the Cosmetics Store.
LMAO
That is an opinion; not a fact.
BP Tasks are in the game similar to how Achievements are in the game.
When you pay for extra stuff on the premium path, you aren't getting extra BP Tasks. You're just getting extra rewards for completing the exact same Tasks as the free BP path.
If you can't buy all the things that were added at any time - that's fomo. If you're told that these things "will return at some point in the future" - that's just a scam for you to keep your sub, because you might MISS OUT on the rerun.
And as I said before, if the rerun happens as a full copy of the previous BP, this would simply mean that BP doesn't serve its purpose, because anyone who had completed the original run of the BP would not have any reason to play the game outside of the normal content that was added during the BP rerun's season.
And if the rerun is done by simply adding more items into the store - the people would have to choose between the new cosmetics and the rerun cosmetics, while they only have currency for one of them (and that is if they even can complete the BP during that season).
All of this is a damn scam, but it's obvious that both you and Mag are either not seeing it or are completely fine with being used.
No, I expect bulletin board tasks which will already be in the game. And as I've been saying from literally my first comment in this thread - why have a BP when we already have a system that does the same thing but w/o the BP implications.
Limit is not a thing.
Battlepass gives you some free Cosmetics that you don't have to purchase from the Cosmetics Store.
Ashes already has plenty of fomo in the main design - without a Cosmetics Store and without a BP.
Ashes is a dynamic game - you cannot experience all of the things or collect all of the things - because stuff will be locked out based on the combinations of Nodes/Government/Racial distribution/Social Orgs/Religions and Events.
The Cosmetics Store already has plenty of fomo.
Typically I'm not going to pay Cosmetic Store prices because they are too expensive. I'm rarely going to pay $25 for a Mount or $35 for a Freehold Skin.
I might pay $10 to get 7 Basic Mounts + 1 Epic Mount + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff or to get 5 Freehold Skins + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff.
What is the scam to keep the sub for rerun?
What even is a rerun? I have no clue what you're talking about.
Seems like you are just making shit up in your own head... again.
It's not going to be a full copy of a previous BP - again, that is something that you're making up in your own head to try to find some way for BPs to suck. Because you think they have to suck some kinda way.
Some items on a BP may return on a future BP. For sure Embers will always be on the BP. Actually, Embers will likely always appear in bulk multiple times on every Ashes BP. And then some individual Cosmetics might appear on a future BP.
For instance, the current Fortnite BP has 6 new Characters related to the new BR Story (mash-up of Mad Max + Fallout):
The Machinist; Rust; Peabody; Scarr; Bright Raider; and Megalo Don.
I will get a LEGO version of each of them (and a BR version of each of them)
The BP also includes 7 BR variants of each of those characters. (Which I don't care about.)
I get the BP as a perk for being a member of the Fortnite Crew - which is $11 per month.
I purchase the Fortnite Crew monthly because I get a cool new character every 1st of each month - June was:
Without the BP, Jing would cost 2K vBucks in the Item Shop. ~$18
Fortnite Crew costs $11 (1.2K vBucks): Character Skin + 1K vBucks + BP + Racing BP
The BP is going to have 6+ more Character Skins + 1K vBucks + a bunch of other stuff.
I can finish the BP in one month - so for the price of 1 premium skin:
I get back the price of the premium skin in vBucks.
I also get +7 new Characters
I also get a bunch of other stuff, mostly for the BR and Racing Game Modes.
(I could also unlock the Bonus track and earn another 1K vBucks + 6 different BR Character Variants + a bunch of other BR items.)
So... I could jump out of the Fortnite Crew for 2 months since I'm not interested in the 2 BR Character Variants for Jul and Aug.
Total Win/Win
In 30 days, Magneto unlocks on the BP. For LEGO and the BR, it's a variant of Magneto that fits the theme of the current story: Wastelander Magneto. Fortnite Crew costs $11 (1.2K vBucks) < 1.5K vBucks
May 15th - May 18th, 2024, the Item Shop had some X-Men Characters for sale - each for 1.5K:
Rogue and Gambit (or as a Bundle for 2.1K). Prior to that, available Jan 14th - Jan 17th and Aug 19th - 31st.
Psylock, Cable and Domino (or as a Bundle for 3K). Also, available Jan 14th - Jan 17th and Aug 19th - 31st.
X-23, Dark Phoenix. Also, available Aug 19th - 31st, 2023 and Mar 5th - 11th 2023.
The cheapest way for me to acquire Magneto any time soon is via the Fortnite Crew with the July 2024 BP.
Otherwise, I have to hope that Magneto will be added to the Item Shop in Jan 2025.
We are expecting a Fortnite x Marvel Event in Aug 2024 - the next Season Event (Chapter 5: Season 4).
Most likely, the BP will include 7 Marvel Characters. Doctor Doom is likely to be one of those. There might be some X-Men Characters on the BP. Unlikely that Magneto will reappear on the BP that quickly.
Someone who doesn't care about Magneto and the X-Men might choose not to pay for the Fortnite Crew for July and Aug and/or wait for Season 4 to drop before re-joining Fortnite Crew.
I already told you that with Fortnite, all of the fomo exists in the Item Shop; not in the BP.
I think the choice you are trying to describe, here, is that people would have to choose between the full price items in the Store and the 80%-90% discounted items in the BP.
An item will not appear in the Shop and the BP at the same time.
People will most likely either choose to get the free or heavily discounted items in the BP rather than pay full price in the Cosmetics Store.
I'm probably not going to pay $35 or $50 for a Freehold Skin from the Cosmetics Store more frequently than once or twice a year.
I will happily pay $25 (sub + BP pass) each month to earn 5 Freehold Skins + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff by completing BP Tasks. Assuming I like the Cosmetics offered via the BP on any individual month.
There is no scam. You are just trying to twist reality any way you can to fabricate a scam.
I expect bulletin board tasks which will already be in the game. And as I've been saying from literally my first comment in this thread - why have a BP when we already have a system that does the same thing but w/o the BP implications.[/quote]
I have no clue what you think you mean by BP implications.
Ashes will have Bulletin Board Tasks, but Bulletin Board Tasks cannot do the same thing as BP Tasks without having BP implications.
Of course, what you mean by BP implications are a fantasy you've concocted in your own head.
It's like saying we can't land a rocket on the Moon because the rocket is too heavy and would sink into the green cheese you think the Moon is made of.
Just because it seems like the universe is geocentric from your pov does not mean the universe is truly geocentric.
(Achievements offering discounted Cosmetics and Embers, instead of/or in addtion to offering Titles, makes more sense than equating Bulletin Board Tasks with BP Tasks.)
When you have a box prices and/or a subsciption model I dont want to see a BP, a VIP model and honestly no costume or QoL cash shop either. You pay enough for the game already, companies wanting more are too greedy for my taste. Dont earn enough? Raise the prices or changes your model. I dont really like the concept of bought costumes in mmos, I prefer to have to earn the best looking armor ingame like the old days. Achieve it by playing the game not by swiping your credit card this way you can be proud of it.
The limit that I explained above means that you'll need to continue playing and accruing points if you want to buy as much stuff as you want.
You've literally said yourself that items on the BP come back (and I even disregarded the contradicting information from videos) in later BPs. This is the "rerun". No matter which form/way/method they come back in - it's gonna be detrimental to the overall BP experience, as I've already explained twice before.
And if "Magneto" was on a rerun (meaning that some people have gotten him in the past) - people might not want to play the game for more than the seasonal content requires.
Which then means that your point of "BP makes people play for longer" doesn't apply to BP seasons where high value cosmetics come back into the rotation. This also serves a double purpose against Mag's point of "BP makes money", because if BPs have a fomo rotation then the company will inevitable get less money on the rerun.
I could literally point towards Mihoyo games as proof, for their character banner reruns always make less money (unless the character has become meta in the meantime, while it wasn't perceived as one on the first run of the banner).
And I keep telling you that this price and the so called "discount" is a scam.
If a shop sold toys and there were 2 ABSOLUTELY SAME TOYS in 2 aisles, but in one aisle the toy costed $5, while in the other it costed $10. And the first toy was on "discount", but with literally 0 difference between the two. Would you not think that you're being scammed on the price of the second toy?
The toy obviously cost the manufacturers the same amount to produce, but there's 2 prices to full the buyer into thinking "ohhh, I'll get one over on this seller if I purchase the cheaper one heheh", when it's obvious beyond belief that it's the buyer who's getting fooled. This is the most basic marketing ploy and both you and Mag seem to be falling head over heels for it.
BP is not a "discount". It's simply closer to the real cost of the items being sold, while singular cosmetics fool people into thinking that by buying a BP they're getting a good deal. I want Intrepid to be more honest than that.
And yes, Ashes has already had a ton of fomo. And that shit has made it seem like a scam to thousands of people. I don't want the same to happen to the game on release. And yet here you are being completely complacent with the "expected" course of things. Why settle for shit, when you can have chocolate?
And if the paid BP gives even more Embers, that means that cosmetics' value is even lower than whatever's the BP cost divided by all of its cosmetics is.
So in either case we'd be getting even more fucked over if Embers were in the BP.
The sub cost doesn't change. Its value is simply lower to Intrepid, because they'd be giving out a cosmetic for it instead of expecting people to buy said cosmetic. This would mean that Intrepid are upselling us on the sub cost.
You are making that up, you have to finish the battel pass to even get all the items (embers if they add that). Not to mention not everyone is going to buy it. It makes 0 sense for you to feel they are upselling a sub cost.
The only reasonable way you could make this argument imo is if the battlepass cost more than any other battlepass by the cost of the embers they give you.
Which honestly isn't reasonable to assume, buy buying the premium and finishing it up get some free embers that is a net positive for everyone.
What should happen, if a game that you are already paying for wan'ts a battlepass, is that they should introduce tasks, and then reward players that complete them with the cosmetic items.
That is it.
Any notion of anything paid is where the issue is - as I have said.
Again, the issue is that the people you are talking about need to pay extra in order to recieve all the rewards from the content they prefer. They should not have to pay extra, if that piece of content rewards a given cosmetic, they should get that cosmetic for completing that piece of content.
Imagine the shitstorm that raiders would bring down on Blizzard if they offered additional rewards for raiders that paid extra...
If the completed FREE BP gives us enough Embers to get a $5 cosmetic - this means that Intrepid is ok with not selling that $5 cosmetic. This, in turn, means that they're ok with losing out on the $5 value across 3 months of subs. Which means that the cost of this cosmetic eats into the sub cost.
And the ~$13.5 only matter in the context of casuals completing the BP. Because, as Dygz loves to repeat, the current BPs can be finished way faster than even a single month. So any hardcore-time player's sub would then cost $10 to intrepid.
And again, this is if the Embers amount to only $5. Anything more is obviously even worse.
And to reiterate my point. If Intrepid are ok with me paying a "$10 sub" - why are they asking for $15?
Though this part of my argument is the weakest point, because I personally don't believe that we'd get Embers, even if we do get a BP. And I know that Dygz will say "they already gave Embers in APOC and other games do this as well, which is why I expect this".
You don't have to buy the free path of a BP.
Modern BPs have very little fomo and provide ample time to reach the end of the BP if you want to reach the end.
I mean... the devs/publisher get more money from Store/Shop purchases.
But, the players who like Cosmetics will happily play the game for more hours with a BP than they would if they immediately get the Cosmetics by direct pay at full price.
The 80%-90% discount on items + Embers/vBucks/Traveler's Tender is worth doing stuff in the game that you like to but want some new rewards besides another Achievements Title.
Sure, but... we know the plan is for Ashes to have a Cosmetics Shop.
So, we can expect the to also have a BP with discounted Cosmetics.
It means if you finish the battle pass you get some currency back meaning buying the next battle pass will be at a reduced price so long as you finish it, or in some cases being able to finish a battle pass and get the next one fully free (though this is usually for fully free to play model with a much longer battle pass).
BP has nothing to do with sub (to play the game) so you shouldn't be trying to compare it as there should be no p2w in a battle pass.
Again, to me it's about the difference between what Intrepid gets and what we pay. Read my example about the 2 toys and tell me, is that a scam for you or is that a "oh, nice, I get a discounted toy"?
Because if you're ok with that kind of monetization - you simply won't understand my point.
I'm not sure a sub will be possible with Embers for Ashes.
But, in Fortnite, I can earn 1K vBucks on the Battlepass each month - plus a bunch of Characters at 80% - 90% discount and a bunch of other stuff. The Fornite Crew costs around 1.2K vBucks per month.
Effectively, the BP covers the cost purchasing the Fortnite Crew Membership.
But... Fortnite makes most of its money from the Item Shop.
I don't know why you say "giving out a Cosmetic" and "the Cosmetic".
A free Battlepass typically has 10+ Cosmetics in addition to Embers/vBucks/Traveler's Tender.
The paid path of a Battlepass also typically has 10+ Cosmetics.
So, they give away 10 for free and then offer another 10 at a 80% - 90% discount.
The sub is going to be near the industry standard for a sub. At least $10, if not $15.
Just as the prices in the Cosmetic Shop are going to be near the industry standard(s).
Paid Battlepass would also be near the industry standard of $10. (New World is $10 every 3 months?)
You just make shit up because you haven't played and you have to try to make the systems seem as bad as possible.
XP is not the same thing as Traveler's Tender.
You get 500 Traveler's Tender at the start of each month.
Show prep time.
More later.
If at all the stores I go to, Funko Pops are $10.
Then I go to one store where there is an aisle with Funko Pops for $10 and another aisle for $5, I'm gonna buy the ones in the aisle where I can buy them for $5.
And, if the guy tells me he will give me 7 for free and sell 7 of them to me for $1 a piece if I spend 9 hours per week helping him with his PCs and giving him some dancing lessons. I will happily spend 9 hours "working" for those 14 Funko Pops - because I already spend 9 hours per week giving free dance lessons and helping people with their PCs. And I have fun doing that.
Especially if I typically spend $100 a month collecting Funko Pops and I really want to spend $200+ per month on Funko Pops.
I can tell you now, they are doing it for their benefit, not yours.
The benefit with a Battlepass is that the devs/publishers retain more players longer compared to not having a BP.
And it's good for an MMO to have more people playing - rather than a 60% to 75% population drop.
Especially for Fortnite - it means that players will be more likely to check their Item Shop daily or weekly... and purchase something there.
Right, so if that is the benefit, why are developers charging for it?
In a free game like Fortnite, whatever. In a game with a subscription, if that content brings in or keeps in players, then have it as a part of the game itself - not as an option extra.
Again, you seem to be missing the point. We are not saying the tasks and the cosemtics shouldn't exist (that is a different argument) - we are saying that if they exist, if the developer thinks they bring people in to the game, then they should just be a part of the game as opposed to an optional extra. Sure, they can be the "free" path you like to keep bringing up that doesn't matter at all - but why does there also need to be the paid part?
Why not just have all the cosmetics be a part of a free path that has even more tasks, thus keeping people in the game even longer.
The WoW Battlepass is free.
Again - I have no clue what you mean by "part of the game" and "optional extra".
The WoW Battlepass is a part of the game. And it's as much of an optional extra as doing Endgame Dungeons and Raids.
Intrepid might do that. Similar to WoW.
I expect Ashes to have a Battlepass.
Could be that the Battlepass is free, like WoW.
Could be that the Battlepass includes a paid path, like APOC.
I don't really know what you mean by "even more Tasks" - BP Tasks are quite extensive.
It wouldn't really be " even more BP Tasks" that keep people playing longer. It would be closer to more rewards so that it takes longer to collect them all.
Which WoW might already do. Kinda.
If a grocery store has a deal like this, there is a very high chance that they are squeezing their supplier.
If the store is buying in an item for $2 and selling it for $3, if they put a 2 for 1 special on that item, they are probably telling their supplier (telling, not asking) that they are buying that item that week/month for $1 rather than the normal $2.
Sometimes grocery stores sell items cheap as loss leaders, but if they are doing this they are increasing the price of other items in order to cover that loss. This is actually less common than the above, but stores are quite happy for people to think this is always the case. Even when this is the case, there is usually an increase in price of other more common items (milk, bread etc), or items that go with the item with the deal (hotdog deal, but hotdog rolls are increased in price, for example).
Point is, deals are never put in for the benefit of the consumer.
Never. You are aware that "more" is subjective, right?
If we are talking about 2, then "more" is anything more than 2.
If we are talking about a million, "more" is anything more than a million.
I can't understand how you can claim to not know what "even more tasks" means.
Why?
We already know Ashes will have cosmetics able to be earned in game, we know Intrepid have been told by us players that we don't want brain dead tasks like those in a battlepass, why would they add one?
Then you have the fact that the general atmosphere of Ashes is non-conductive to tasks like a battlepass would have. If they did add it, you can guarantee that the areas people need to go to add those tasks would be a hotbead of both PvP and griefing (or boarderline griefing).
In a game like Ashes, a WoW style battlepass would see people leave the game, not remain longer.
Ironically, I would even pay more than $75 to FFA PvP in the Open Seas for more than 100 hours if the reward was a Stufferton.