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Why i will not be playing AoC

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Comments

  • Kneczhevo wrote: »
    What a well written and passionate post. ☺️ Unfortunately, I see it more as a troll needing a therapy session.

    I have no idea what topics you brought up, I don't chase names. I chase comments.

    What I gathered (from this thread), you are a PVEer? And you're not happy about your responses to your suggestions? I'm not rereading your other thread.

    We all want a great game, period. Some have great ideas, some don't. If your idea is not getting into people's heads, you are doing something wrong or it's a dumb idea. Accept it and move on. Try a new approach, don't cry to the forums.

    You come to a PvP community, and expect carebear treatment? Lmao. Get real.

    I'm a carebear with fangs and claws. Grow a pair.

    not impressed
  • Hold up, Isn't this just a differently-worded duplicate of the first thread, except now we got more than one paragraph?

    You should just respond to people that dislike your ideas in your threads if you think your own seem better, regardless of how they type or their tone. If you find your ideas worth defending then you should be able to defend them against the worst.
  • bigepeen wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    Good Evening,
    I wanted to address some of the comments but not go into too much as this community seems riddled with people who do not want new ideas or new age things in this MMO. This would be insanely long if i were to do that. Just know i read them and none of you have swayed any of the arguments i have on MMOs and what they should and should not have. I wish i could get your trust that i am very knowledgeable of MMOs and can often tell when one will flop or be successful. I know it is something that is earned over a long period of time and being correct about topics.

    Really hope you're not just trolling with these posts, but regardless, I really think that we don't need separate topics for this discussion... I'm not a mod though.
    Tarnish wrote: »
    My feedback is simple, I see some big flaws that should not be capable. I understand the games still in alpha however as we all know MMOs have 2 legs to stand on, PVE and PVP. I like PVP however PVE is MY passion. If any MMO is going to be successful it needs both. Every example and most of the future content appears to have PVP involved with the PVE. Anyone who has played a MMO should know why that does not make sense. Some is good, too much is bad. Some of the ideas i really like however the thought of others seem fun in theory however having experience with the topic i can see the cons of it and know how it will play out long term.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the first sentence. I understand that your preference is for PvE, however this is very subjective and doesn't necessarily reflect everyone else's preferences. People need to realize that not every game needs to be centered around their passion. We would have a very boring catalogue of games if every game were built to one person's preference.

    Not every game needs to have X% of PvE and (100-X)% of PvP content. For example, FFIV basically has non-existent PvP and yet it is the 3rd most popular MMO right now. In fact, there are plenty of popular PvE-centric MMOs right now and I would consider that part of the market saturated. If that's your style of MMO, then please play those games rather than spending effort trying to turn every game into a PvE game, there are already literally hundreds of those for you to choose from. I believe that alternative models to this can be successful, and I like the direction that AoC is going with no P2W microtransactions, extensive crafting content, innovative node systems, naval content, huge player driven economy, player-owned houses, etc... A lot of games with more PvP failed because P2W was implemented and the player population started dropping off a cliff, or games that are just generally low on content in general. The latter won't be a problem if Intrepid just delivers on the scope that they already have planned.
    Tarnish wrote: »
    Anyone who has played a MMO should know why that does not make sense. Some is good, too much is bad. Some of the ideas i really like however the thought of others seem fun in theory however having experience with the topic i can see the cons of it and know how it will play out long term.

    If you are really sincere about your feedback, can you please provide concrete examples for ideas that have obvious cons? I think if the cons were so obvious, then developers would not even consider implementing them in games. It may be obvious to you, but saying that "anyone who has played a MMO should know why that does not make sense" isn't very productive feedback.

    "Feel free to comment on a topic that you think will hurt the community/game and i will make a separate post breaking it down Thoroughly from a Raid leader and Raiders perspective towards PVE content mostly. Raid sizes, Meters, instanced raids vs world bosses, PVE world objectives and crafting etc. I have plenty of knowledge and i do not mind getting nitty and gritty with any of the topics. This will help me break down alot of comments in one discussion vs trying to answer multiple questions or concerns about multiple topics in 1 discussion."

    Now MMORPGs tend not to do so well when they do 1 or the 2 topics badly. So what i'm suggesting is take feedback about PVE content from a PVE players so that they can have good PVP content and good PVE content.
  • GodsThesis wrote: »
    Hold up, Isn't this just a differently-worded duplicate of the first thread, except now we got more than one paragraph?

    You should just respond to people that dislike your ideas in your threads if you think your own seem better, regardless of how they type or their tone. If you find your ideas worth defending then you should be able to defend them against the worst.

    post a topic and i will break it down, I am trying to figure out where the community disagrees the most and take it from there.
  • AoC concepts translated into WoW speak.

    10 man raids and 5 man dungeons=
    A full party is 8 players. 1tank, 1, healer, 1, buffer (bard) and 5 dps/off heals/tanks.

    A raid group is up to 40 players, that's 5, 8 man groups.

    World Boss, requires 40 players to down. Oddly enough this used to be the case in WoW, and will be the case in AoC.

    In AoC 80% of the dungeons will be open world, and may have a world boss in them. There will be pvp.

    The other 20% will be instanced. But we only know that cause Steve said so and hasn't provided any info beyond that.

    So imagine BRD and BWL from classic WoW being combined and open world. You're likely going to have to find a middle ground for playing PVP and "raiding" at the same time.
  • unphazdunphazd Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    A part two??

    Your viewpoints are exactly the sort of thing I would expect from the elitist Warcraft raiding manufacturing and processing facility. Right down to the entitlement.

    DPS meters introduced exclusion during Karazhan.

    Deadly boss mod, or as I called it, "run away little girl" couldn't keep the dps from standing in void zones no matter how many raid members installed it.

    When the item score mod was introduced during ICC it made the exclusion and toxic elitism from the dps meter introduction look like sweet apple pie.

    During Cata Blizz tried to make raid content with the assumption that everyone will have DBM, and as a result created some if the most unfun dungeons and raids in WoW history. Guilds fell apart players quit for good and LFR was born.

    Current year wow a typical guild only lasts as long as the current content patch.

    Amen
    giphy.gif

  • AoC concepts translated into WoW speak.

    10 man raids and 5 man dungeons=
    A full party is 8 players. 1tank, 1, healer, 1, buffer (bard) and 5 dps/off heals/tanks.

    A raid group is up to 40 players, that's 5, 8 man groups.

    World Boss, requires 40 players to down. Oddly enough this used to be the case in WoW, and will be the case in AoC.

    In AoC 80% of the dungeons will be open world, and may have a world boss in them. There will be pvp.

    The other 20% will be instanced. But we only know that cause Steve said so and hasn't provided any info beyond that.

    So imagine BRD and BWL from classic WoW being combined and open world. You're likely going to have to find a middle ground for playing PVP and "raiding" at the same time.

    My issue is exactly what you said, there is little no information on instanced raids and how many will there be. Instanced PVE content could be dungeons. I hopes is 16 man legit hard Raids. 80% to 20% doesn't sound like middle ground to me.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited August 2020
    Challenging PvE content is indeed a big question mark when it comes to AoC.

    I also agree with you on your point about WoW. A lot of people say that this game isn't a WoW 2.0, but what they don't realize is that WoW has the largest MMO player-base out of all other MMORPGs. So if you want to be successful, you have to be able to attract its player-base as well. That's the reason why FF14 became so successful. The challenging PvE content in FF14 attracted a ton of players from WoW.

    So I hope that Steven understands this. Sacrificing a bit of social activity, for challenging PvE content, isn't really a bad trade-off in my books.
  • CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Challenging PvE content is indeed a big question mark when it comes to AoC.

    I also agree with you on your point about WoW. A lot of people say that this game isn't a WoW 2.0, but what they don't realize is that WoW has the largest MMO player-base out of all other MMORPGs. So if you want to be successful, you have to be able to attract its player-base as well. That's the reason why FF14 became so successful. The challenging PvE content in FF14, attracted a ton of players from WoW.

    So I hope that Steven understands this. Sacrificing a bit of social activity, for challenging PvE content, isn't really a bad trade-off in my books.

    I agree, I think in the long run it will benefit the community.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I remember when they launched the first Raid. We were standing at the door and watching the scene play out. PvP started as they were halfway through. We were waiting for the door to open. Some people got made because they didn't want to be flagged and pvp. It killed our guild before even getting in the door. :D

    I am with you and hope there are some epic fights that you can focus on just the fight and not have to worry about griefers. But I also like the scramble sometimes as well.

    First time we did Kragga's palace right after it came out. We were at the end of our raid time when we got to Karaga. We decided to pull to see the fight and give it a try. At the end me healing and 1 melee dps running around eeked out a victory purely through the scramble. Was a good night.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • I remember when they launched the first Raid. We were standing at the door and watching the scene play out. PvP started as they were halfway through. We were waiting for the door to open. Some people got made because they didn't want to be flagged and pvp. It killed our guild before even getting in the door. :D

    I am with you and hope there are some epic fights that you can focus on just the fight and not have to worry about griefers. But I also like the scramble sometimes as well.

    First time we did Kragga's palace right after it came out. We were at the end of our raid time when we got to Karaga. We decided to pull to see the fight and give it a try. At the end me healing and 1 melee dps running around eeked out a victory purely through the scramble. Was a good night.

    Good times lol! Styrak on nightmare was hella tough ill never forget killing him. i agree 100%. I hope we can get more information. even if its just a theory on how raiding will be so we can at least have a better idea on what to expect.

    We had a crazy fight with Halfus on our first Heroic kill where a shaman ahnked and killed the boss and got auto'd by the boss at the same time and they both died lol.
  • DreohDreoh Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I know I also have a tendency to write long comments, but yours comes off as rambly and a bit entitled.

    I'm not going to offer feedback on the content since our friends here have already done so in ample capacity, so instead I'll say that if you intend to get more positive or even just more logical and comprehensive responses to do away with the entitlement, and focus entirely on the arguments you're making instead of who you are as a person.

    To add on that, utilize paragraphs more to better increase readability and help add emphasis to your points. People tend to only read the first 1 or 2 lines of a paragraph as the rest of it becomes tedious to look at.

    Lastly, try to keep your arguments concise and too the point for maximum impact and for less of a chance of misinterpretation.
  • bigepeenbigepeen Member
    edited August 2020
    Tarnish wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Challenging PvE content is indeed a big question mark when it comes to AoC.

    I also agree with you on your point about WoW. A lot of people say that this game isn't a WoW 2.0, but what they don't realize is that WoW has the largest MMO player-base out of all other MMORPGs. So if you want to be successful, you have to be able to attract its player-base as well. That's the reason why FF14 became so successful. The challenging PvE content in FF14, attracted a ton of players from WoW.

    So I hope that Steven understands this. Sacrificing a bit of social activity, for challenging PvE content, isn't really a bad trade-off in my books.

    I agree, I think in the long run it will benefit the community.

    I don't agree, I think it will harm the community. It will create a large portion of players sequestered off in basically an instanced mini-game, making the world feel less populated and lively. Additionally, these players will start whining about having to do any PvP and either start asking for non-PvP servers or making every dungeon instanced.

    In order to have a healthy, dynamic server, AoC needs players who want to join in on the PvP systems, and join in on sending caravans, joining castle sieges, joining node wars, etc..
  • Tarnish wrote: »
    GodsThesis wrote: »
    Hold up, Isn't this just a differently-worded duplicate of the first thread, except now we got more than one paragraph?

    You should just respond to people that dislike your ideas in your threads if you think your own seem better, regardless of how they type or their tone. If you find your ideas worth defending then you should be able to defend them against the worst.

    post a topic and i will break it down, I am trying to figure out where the community disagrees the most and take it from there.

    You don't tell me what to do just as I can't tell you what to do. So you should probably stop that nonsense.

    I am assuming you meant to write it in a suggestive tone though, not a commanding one. Given the way you type, probably just poor wording on your part.
  • Dreoh wrote: »
    I know I also have a tendency to write long comments, but yours comes off as rambly and a bit entitled.

    I'm not going to offer feedback on the content since our friends here have already done so in ample capacity, so instead I'll say that if you intend to get more positive or even just more logical and comprehensive responses to do away with the entitlement, and focus entirely on the arguments you're making instead of who you are as a person.

    To add on that, utilize paragraphs more to better increase readability and help add emphasis to your points. People tend to only read the first 1 or 2 lines of a paragraph as the rest of it becomes tedious to look at.

    Lastly, try to keep your arguments concise and too the point for maximum impact and for less of a chance of misinterpretation.

    that is why i made a part 2. I am looking to specify and get a more concrete topic to break down so that i can try and bridge some things that this community does not quite understand. i have a lots of experience with raiding and all factors that effect it. much more than i have experience with paragraphs. Since making this new post few to none have posted topics and have chosen to pick at things irrelevant or give commentary.
  • If my army burns your node to the ground your dungeon just went away with it.

    Warcraft's business model is attracting new players with new expansions, not retention of old fans. This has been the case since Activation bought em. Less than 10% of their massive player base are actually "hardcore" raiders. The overwhelming majority are LFR hero's.
  • GodsThesis wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    GodsThesis wrote: »
    Hold up, Isn't this just a differently-worded duplicate of the first thread, except now we got more than one paragraph?

    You should just respond to people that dislike your ideas in your threads if you think your own seem better, regardless of how they type or their tone. If you find your ideas worth defending then you should be able to defend them against the worst.

    post a topic and i will break it down, I am trying to figure out where the community disagrees the most and take it from there.

    You don't tell me what to do just as I can't tell you what to do. So you should probably stop that nonsense.

    I am assuming you meant to write it in a suggestive tone though, not a commanding one. Given the way you type, probably just poor wording on your part.

    you know what they say about assumptions. lol
  • If my army burns your node to the ground your dungeon just went away with it.

    Warcraft's business model is attracting new players with new expansions, not retention of old fans. This has been the case since Activation bought em. Less than 10% of their massive player base are actually "hardcore" raiders. The overwhelming majority are LFR hero's.

    well when i played i was in the top 1% apparently so i believe that. However for something to take its place we need something better. Giving PVE players a new home with the PVP i have seen. i imagine little to no games would be able to compete. however we need more information on PVE and we need solid input. i just need to know what topics they need real information on and what topics the community thinks are bad that are crucial to PVE content.
  • Tarnish wrote: »
    GodsThesis wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    GodsThesis wrote: »
    Hold up, Isn't this just a differently-worded duplicate of the first thread, except now we got more than one paragraph?

    You should just respond to people that dislike your ideas in your threads if you think your own seem better, regardless of how they type or their tone. If you find your ideas worth defending then you should be able to defend them against the worst.

    post a topic and i will break it down, I am trying to figure out where the community disagrees the most and take it from there.

    You don't tell me what to do just as I can't tell you what to do. So you should probably stop that nonsense.

    I am assuming you meant to write it in a suggestive tone though, not a commanding one. Given the way you type, probably just poor wording on your part.

    you know what they say about assumptions. lol

    No, I don't actually.
  • The reasons games with somewhat similar models(Lineage, Archeage) started dying, is because all of the pvp content(read world bosses) started being transformed into instances or non-pvp zones. You dont come to an established vision of a world and start shaping it "like wow, because wow is successful", no one here wants a second wow, people want AoC.
  • AtiqaAtiqa Member
    edited August 2020
    Tarnish wrote: »
    AoC concepts translated into WoW speak.

    10 man raids and 5 man dungeons=
    A full party is 8 players. 1tank, 1, healer, 1, buffer (bard) and 5 dps/off heals/tanks.

    A raid group is up to 40 players, that's 5, 8 man groups.

    World Boss, requires 40 players to down. Oddly enough this used to be the case in WoW, and will be the case in AoC.

    In AoC 80% of the dungeons will be open world, and may have a world boss in them. There will be pvp.

    The other 20% will be instanced. But we only know that cause Steve said so and hasn't provided any info beyond that.

    So imagine BRD and BWL from classic WoW being combined and open world. You're likely going to have to find a middle ground for playing PVP and "raiding" at the same time.

    My issue is exactly what you said, there is little no information on instanced raids and how many will there be. Instanced PVE content could be dungeons. I hopes is 16 man legit hard Raids. 80% to 20% doesn't sound like middle ground to me.

    So you make two threads on this forum about how you won't be playing AoC that is 2-3 years away, because you don't know how it will work yet.

    If you just posted your opinion and worries about the game, while realizing that not every game is catered towards you, then I would be fine with that. But... You are basing a lot of your points on assumptions and unfinished/unknown parts of the game. Again, the game is 2-3 maybe more years away.

    Also, raids in other games make up a tiny tiny portion of the instanced content, so 20% of dungeons being instanced could still be a lot of content.

    Don't know if the devs have mentioned what type of content will be in instanced dungeons though, but neither do you, which is my point.
  • BirdieBirdie Moderator, Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Merged into 1 thread.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • I've said it earlier, i will repeat it again.
    I dont mind you carebearing as much as you want, i dont mind a lot of instanced content, it can be as hard as you wish.
    I DONT want those instances to drop BiS's(Best in Slots), or uniques, that will actually force people to go there, but will give an equal opportunity for free to everyone to get those BiS's and uniques. This kind of gear should be behind a competition wall, not some mob in a pvp-free separated area.
  • wArchAngel wrote: »
    The reasons games with somewhat similar models(Lineage, Archeage) started dying, is because all of the pvp content(read world bosses) started being transformed into instances or non-pvp zones. You dont come to an established vision of a world and start shaping it "like wow, because wow is successful", no one here wants a second wow, people want AoC.

    they changed their content because it couldnt compete with WoW. it was gonna die like alot of games did and are. if you want a remake of a old game that died. i am telling you now the history will repeat itself.
  • Atiqa wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    AoC concepts translated into WoW speak.

    10 man raids and 5 man dungeons=
    A full party is 8 players. 1tank, 1, healer, 1, buffer (bard) and 5 dps/off heals/tanks.

    A raid group is up to 40 players, that's 5, 8 man groups.

    World Boss, requires 40 players to down. Oddly enough this used to be the case in WoW, and will be the case in AoC.

    In AoC 80% of the dungeons will be open world, and may have a world boss in them. There will be pvp.

    The other 20% will be instanced. But we only know that cause Steve said so and hasn't provided any info beyond that.

    So imagine BRD and BWL from classic WoW being combined and open world. You're likely going to have to find a middle ground for playing PVP and "raiding" at the same time.

    My issue is exactly what you said, there is little no information on instanced raids and how many will there be. Instanced PVE content could be dungeons. I hopes is 16 man legit hard Raids. 80% to 20% doesn't sound like middle ground to me.

    So you make two threads on this forum about how you won't be playing AoC that is 2-3 years away, because you don't know how it will work yet.

    If you just posted your opinion and worries about the game, while realizing that not every game is catered towards you, then I would be fine with that. But... You are basing a lot of your points on assumptions and unfinished/unknown parts of the game. Again, the game is 2-3 maybe more years away.

    Also, raids in other games make up a tiny tiny portion of the instanced content, so 20% of dungeons being instanced could still be a lot of content.

    Don't know if the devs have mentioned what type of content will be in instanced dungeons though, but neither do you, which is my point.

    why are they unknown? they should have at least a theory for us. they should be able to give us something. PVP has been getting a ton of great ideas and theories. i want the PVE info.
  • GodsThesis wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    GodsThesis wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    GodsThesis wrote: »
    Hold up, Isn't this just a differently-worded duplicate of the first thread, except now we got more than one paragraph?

    You should just respond to people that dislike your ideas in your threads if you think your own seem better, regardless of how they type or their tone. If you find your ideas worth defending then you should be able to defend them against the worst.

    post a topic and i will break it down, I am trying to figure out where the community disagrees the most and take it from there.

    You don't tell me what to do just as I can't tell you what to do. So you should probably stop that nonsense.

    I am assuming you meant to write it in a suggestive tone though, not a commanding one. Given the way you type, probably just poor wording on your part.

    you know what they say about assumptions. lol

    No, I don't actually.

    do you need a hug?
  • They STARTED dying and massively declining in population when they started losing their identity, instead of improving their current features, they tried to catter to the "everyone is a winner" mentality by putting epic bosses into a non-pvp zone or instanced zone, so everyone could go and farm them. Thats where the games lost all of their charm, and were massively dropped, that and the increasing p2w model.
  • If my army burns your node to the ground your dungeon just went away with it.

    Warcraft's business model is attracting new players with new expansions, not retention of old fans. This has been the case since Activation bought em. Less than 10% of their massive player base are actually "hardcore" raiders. The overwhelming majority are LFR hero's.

    i assure you in the current community there are a ton of player that have been there from vanilla and even played the what i would consider bad expansions.
  • bigepeen wrote: »
    Tarnish wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Challenging PvE content is indeed a big question mark when it comes to AoC.

    I also agree with you on your point about WoW. A lot of people say that this game isn't a WoW 2.0, but what they don't realize is that WoW has the largest MMO player-base out of all other MMORPGs. So if you want to be successful, you have to be able to attract its player-base as well. That's the reason why FF14 became so successful. The challenging PvE content in FF14, attracted a ton of players from WoW.

    So I hope that Steven understands this. Sacrificing a bit of social activity, for challenging PvE content, isn't really a bad trade-off in my books.

    I agree, I think in the long run it will benefit the community.

    I don't agree, I think it will harm the community. It will create a large portion of players sequestered off in basically an instanced mini-game, making the world feel less populated and lively. Additionally, these players will start whining about having to do any PvP and either start asking for non-PvP servers or making every dungeon instanced.

    In order to have a healthy, dynamic server, AoC needs players who want to join in on the PvP systems, and join in on sending caravans, joining castle sieges, joining node wars, etc..

    how do you think it will harm the community?
  • wArchAngel wrote: »
    They STARTED dying and massively declining in population when they started losing their identity, instead of improving their current features, they tried to catter to the "everyone is a winner" mentality by putting epic bosses into a non-pvp zone or instanced zone, so everyone could go and farm them. Thats where the games lost all of their charm, and were massively dropped, that and the increasing p2w model.

    all i see is a old dead game. This is 2020 i think it is much wiser to take the lessons we have learned over the last 15 years and implement them into this game to make it a original game unique with the pros from all the games of the past.
This discussion has been closed.