Why i will not be playing AoC

Hey Everyone,

I heard about this game recently and there is a ton of good that i saw. Unfortunately as much as i enjoy destroying people in PVP i enjoy PVE more. The answers toward PVE and some of the examples i have seen sound cool but do not fulfill my wants as someone who enjoys PVE and more particularly Raiding. I was really hoping AoC would check all the boxes but it fell short. It checks alot of boxes and even adds boxes. However, this game appears to be falling short on some important points. Its stance towards Addons which is essentially a stance against players who want to make the game better or easier in a sort. I am typically a minimalist in this area so i was not too worried about it. I also think any addon ideas should be brought up now and maybe they can just add those features. An example of a feature i would like to see is a map of sorts you can right strategy on for the team to look at and also be able to mark on. This is now a addon in WoW. I use it a lot because its nice to be able to draw a encounter or upload the map and draw out our strategies. However DPS meters and healing meters have been lumped into that. Its almost a disrespect to someones intelligence to even debate the topic because its essential. Its not even that its just essential but if you don't want to see it so you can immerse yourself into a game. an example would be questing or exploring. Just TURN IT OFF. DPS meters do not have to be displayed 100% of the time. PVE events were just displayed on taking a castle where loot would go to the guild with the most dmg or be given by dmg output yet there is no dps meter. This is honestly a huge let down for them to go over both of these points nearly back to back without notice of the logic contradicting itself. i for one would like a option to hide my UI as well so i can do just that. immerse myself while questing or hanging out at a tavern. I have a feeling class balancing may also be a reason why the dps meter is something the developers are against dps meters. ESO had issues with OP builds plaguing a diverse class selection. They dont have to worry about it if they don't have meters. well not as much anyway. The third issue is more so because i am a community leader and i do not want to be forced to have a particular size community. I have had huge communities and small. I do not want to have to recruit and manage a 40 man raid team or larger. The best example of where a game got it right would be WoW Wrath of the Lich King where they allowed 25 or 10 man raids. Options and scaling works wonders. I understand because i saw more of the game of why the game is being tuned this way. The hope is that there is a huge community in this game. However with its not so friendly PVE content. I think the communities will not meet exceptions at max level. Which will break the meta being created. Things can change as the game is in alpha but from what i am seeing from the small community here and the streams. This game is going to have everything i wish WoW had. However it wont have what WoW has. WoW with all of its faults still has a community and raids with a lot of effort put into them. They have made mistakes with the last expansion but they are also now opening up legacy servers. Its hard from a PVE stand point to pick AoC over TBC or a possible good retail expansion or even WOTLK. PVP is still good in WoW and i enjoy it a lot. I love alot of what i am seeing here however i am getting flash backs of the last WoW killer, the one before that, and that. I think AoC is a step in the right direction. i like the thinking outside of the box and mixing some PVE and PVP.

I may hop into a stream or 2 and check on the development but i think the issues are too deeply placed. Not to mention real feedback is hard to find. People are easily distracted by pretty things and i for better or for worse have a good way of getting to the meat and potatoes.

cheers,
Tarnish

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Great Brae

Dreoh wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Why the need to post a 4 page essay that you are leaving ?

Because he's not leaving, he's just being manipulative. Like a significant other who tells you if you leave them or don't do what they want they're gonna kill themselves.

"If you don't improve your game to suit my needs I'm gonna leave!"

Can work the other way around too with ppl saying "This game ain't for you, I want it to be this way so now leave!"

But yeah that sounds about right.

Dreoh

Great Brae wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Why the need to post a 4 page essay that you are leaving ?

Because he's not leaving, he's just being manipulative. Like a significant other who tells you if you leave them or don't do what they want they're gonna kill themselves.

"If you don't improve your game to suit my needs I'm gonna leave!"

Can work the other way around too with ppl saying "This game ain't for you, I want it to be this way so now leave!"

But yeah that sounds about right.

For sure, I definitely agree those people are just as toxic, though I don't blame them for it. Especially when it's in response to the toxic kind of behaviour you see OP display.

Great Brae

Indeed, you can talk about topics without walking around like your a colorful peacock.

Let the game develop and then make your judgement, if you think an idea is bad mention it so they can improve while keeping there image, and do it humbly if possible. I f you have an idea that can improve the game, mention it.

PlagueMonk

I can't believe you all have kept feeding the stray cat. Now we will never be rid of it!

/gives it a morsel of food (yeah I know

)

Merek

Tarnish wrote: »

Its stance towards Addons which is essentially a stance against players who want to make the game better or easier in a sort. I am typically a minimalist in this area so i was not too worried about it. I also think any addon ideas should be brought up now and maybe they can just add those features.

An addon system gives the developers leniency to be lazy, the sheer amount required to play ESO is abysmal. If you play ESO without at least half of the meta addons you're damaging your efficiency. I'm not interested in a system like this at all.

Tarnish wrote: »

However DPS meters and healing meters have been lumped into that. Its almost a disrespect to someones intelligence to even debate the topic because its essential. Its not even that its just essential but if you don't want to see it so you can immerse yourself into a game. an example would be questing or exploring. Just TURN IT OFF. DPS meters do not have to be displayed 100% of the time. PVE events were just displayed on taking a castle where loot would go to the guild with the most dmg or be given by dmg output yet there is no dps meter. This is honestly a huge let down for them to go over both of these points nearly back to back without notice of the logic contradicting itself. i for one would like a option to hide my UI as well so i can do just that. immerse myself while questing or hanging out at a tavern. I have a feeling class balancing may also be a reason why the dps meter is something the developers are against dps meters. ESO had issues with OP builds plaguing a diverse class selection. They dont have to worry about it if they don't have meters. well not as much anyway.

Your opinion on the DPS meter is your opinion, I couldn't care less, add it or don't, don't care. But, of course you'll be able to disable your HUD, what are you on about? "ESO had issues with OP builds plaguing a diverse class selection." It still does, two classes in that game very clearly stand above the rest.

Tarnish wrote: »

The third issue is more so because i am a community leader and i do not want to be forced to have a particular size community. I have had huge communities and small. I do not want to have to recruit and manage a 40 man raid team or larger. The best example of where a game got it right would be WoW Wrath of the Lich King where they allowed 25 or 10 man raids. Options and scaling works wonders. I understand because i saw more of the game of why the game is being tuned this way. The hope is that there is a huge community in this game. However with its not so friendly PVE content. I think the communities will not meet exceptions at max level. Which will break the meta being created. Things can change as the game is in alpha but from what i am seeing from the small community here and the streams. This game is going to have everything i wish WoW had. However it wont have what WoW has. WoW with all of its faults still has a community and raids with a lot of effort put into them. They have made mistakes with the last expansion but they are also now opening up legacy servers. Its hard from a PVE stand point to pick AoC over TBC or a possible good retail expansion or even WOTLK. PVP is still good in WoW and i enjoy it a lot. I love alot of what i am seeing here however i am getting flash backs of the last WoW killer, the one before that, and that. I think AoC is a step in the right direction. i like the thinking outside of the box and mixing some PVE and PVP.

I'm going to assume, because the project is in Alpha, raids will scale. Five to ten men could probably take down some creature in its lair, sure. But I don't see ten people being able to take down some monstrous dragon the size of a mountain, it's not very logical. From what Intrepid has shown, they're trying to take the logical stance on an MMO for once. "However it wont have what WoW has." That's a good thing, I can't stand WoW. My interest for this project stems completely from the fact it's a western MMO that isn't WoW. It blows my mind that it's still so popular even though the gameplay is about as interesting as kicking a wall with a toothpick under your nail.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Ventharien

This was a pointless post and you need to learn there is a tab or enter key.

NelsonRebel

Just came to see how many people disagreed with you and I was not dissapointed.

Have fun guys.

ZiZi-Jaz-Mina

To each their own, good luck to you. I’m not sure why make a post about it though... are hoping it helps change intrepid’s mind? Well I hope they don’t! The measure of the game is the same ideas of how open source and crowd source works, the more support a thing has the better it does, regardless of the minority that don’t like it. For those, there is always something else out there they prefer. I really do think Intrepid has tried to encompass a wide range of things for a lot of players. I.e. far more pros than cons for the large majority of players. At least, the old school players who played D&D, GURPS, and the like Before the internet existed and then Ultima, EQ and other mmos since

Undead Canuck

/popcorn

FuryBladeborne

Merek wrote: »

I'm going to assume, because the project is in Alpha, raids will scale.

Currently, raids will not be scaling. Group sizes will be 8, 16, and 40. Raids are specified as 40 people, so apparently 8 and 16 people will be dungeons. Boss difficulty will scale based on performance. So, if a group does well against one boss, the next boss will be more difficult and drop additional loot.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Raids

insomnia

If you can't play a game due to no DPS meter and add-ons then you are doing something wrong. I can see somewhat with add-ons, but then again, this also goes back to what the game brings. Are they even needed with what you can do with your interface, information you get about various things

Grievousness

insomnia wrote: »

If you can't play a game due to no DPS meter and add-ons then you are doing something wrong. I can see somewhat with add-ons, but then again, this also goes back to what the game brings. Are they even needed with what you can do with your interface, information you get about various things

If you can't properly read a post you maybe should try to focus a bit more.
Maybe copy into a text editor so you can make paragraphs yourself.
He really can improve on that to be fair.

Thing is his main problem is that pve content (mostly raiding) will be pretty poor, which is a legitimate concern.
I think you must be crazy not to think that as a PvE player leaning towards raiding in particular.
And he is saying that in his third sentence:

Tarnish wrote:

The answers toward PVE and some of the examples i have seen sound cool but do not fulfill my wants as someone who enjoys PVE and more particularly Raiding.

Also how can you mistake....

Tarnish wrote:

However, this game appears to be falling short on some important points.

(later clarified as for example lack of addons etc.)

....with not being able to play a game because of it?
He is perfectly clear in his statement.

I have no problem if you all go yolo toxic mode and secretely promote dps meters.
But come on guys at least try a bit harder, arguing against a position that does not exist is just pointless.

Dreoh

Grievousness wrote: »

(later clarified as for example lack of addons etc.)

....with not being able to play a game because of it?
He is perfectly clear in his statement.

I have no problem if you all go yolo toxic mode and secretely promote dps meters.
But come on guys at least try a bit harder, arguing against a position that does not exist is just pointless.

Maybe because he titled the thread "Why I will not be playing AoC" and then listing his reasons why

Grievousness

Dreoh wrote: »

Maybe because he titled the thread "Why I will not be playing AoC" and then listing his reasons why

Yea exactly, the title seems to be the biggest problem a few people have with the threat,
not his points.

Just for fun let's read his stance on addons again since he cannot play without them:

Tarnish wrote:

I am typically a minimalist in this area so i was not too worried about it.
I also think any addon ideas should be brought up now and maybe they can just add those features.

The argument he was actually making there is that addons can add nesseccary/good features the devs overlooked.
He gave the example of a customizeable strategy map to organize in raids to explain that idea.
I personally would love to see sth like that.

Also I think he is more walling than listing, but that might be just my impression.

Dreoh

Grievousness wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

Maybe because he titled the thread "Why I will not be playing AoC" and then listing his reasons why

Yea exactly, the title seems to be the biggest problem a few people have with the threat,
not his points.

Just for fun let's read his stance on addons again since he cannot play without them:

Tarnish wrote:

I am typically a minimalist in this area so i was not too worried about it.
I also think any addon ideas should be brought up now and maybe they can just add those features.

The argument he was actually making there is that addons can add nesseccary/good features the devs overlooked.
He gave the example of a customizeable strategy map to organize in raids to explain that idea.
I personally would love to see sth like that.

Also I think he is more walling than listing, but that might be just my impression.

You can't cherrypick, you have to take his context as a whole. He's arguing his point yes, but with the ultimatum that he's not going to play without the additions he wants. He's starting off in bad faith from the beginning and it's obvious he's not willing to listen to reason.

insomnia

Grievousness wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

Maybe because he titled the thread "Why I will not be playing AoC" and then listing his reasons why

Yea exactly, the title seems to be the biggest problem a few people have with the threat,
not his points.

Just for fun let's read his stance on addons again since he cannot play without them:

Tarnish wrote:

I am typically a minimalist in this area so i was not too worried about it.
I also think any addon ideas should be brought up now and maybe they can just add those features.

The argument he was actually making there is that addons can add nesseccary/good features the devs overlooked.
He gave the example of a customizeable strategy map to organize in raids to explain that idea.
I personally would love to see sth like that.

Also I think he is more walling than listing, but that might be just my impression.

But Intrepid has said you can customize your interface. Wait and see how much we can do

insomnia

Grievousness wrote: »

insomnia wrote: »

If you can't play a game due to no DPS meter and add-ons then you are doing something wrong. I can see somewhat with add-ons, but then again, this also goes back to what the game brings. Are they even needed with what you can do with your interface, information you get about various things

If you can't properly read a post you maybe should try to focus a bit more.
Maybe copy into a text editor so you can make paragraphs yourself.
He really can improve on that to be fair.

Thing is his main problem is that pve content (mostly raiding) will be pretty poor, which is a legitimate concern.
I think you must be crazy not to think that as a PvE player leaning towards raiding in particular.
And he is saying that in his third sentence:

Tarnish wrote:

The answers toward PVE and some of the examples i have seen sound cool but do not fulfill my wants as someone who enjoys PVE and more particularly Raiding.

Also how can you mistake....

Tarnish wrote:

However, this game appears to be falling short on some important points.

(later clarified as for example lack of addons etc.)

....with not being able to play a game because of it?
He is perfectly clear in his statement.

I have no problem if you all go yolo toxic mode and secretely promote dps meters.
But come on guys at least try a bit harder, arguing against a position that does not exist is just pointless.

I don't think i read it all, which is my bad. But i just though that if i can play without add-ons, others must also be able. Do i use add-ons, that depends on the game. Vanilla wow, yes. I don't think i have used them for any other mmo. I do not promote a dps meter. I never use it. I have spoken against it

winner909098

I laughed when he said wow had a community

Rissy

While I think it is good to make suggestions in good faith for the game, I think the people that want to change the direction of the game without giving it a chance are missing a big point. This is Steven's vision and he has put in a ton of money to build the game of "his" dreams based on his game experiences. This is what we, those that have backed the game, have bought into because we believed in his vision. As has been said, he knows it won't be the game for everyone.

I personally am a player that enjoys mostly PvE. I have played many MMOs and was an extensive raider in EQ and Vanilla WoW thru WOTLK. While I am apprehensive of PvP one on one (since I play healers mostly), I still bought into Steven's vision because it resonated with me. Large scale battles sound great (and were fun back in DAoC).

I miss the days of games without tons of addons and dps meters. I am happy they are wanting to stay away from that. Don't get me wrong, I use them in WoW, but I feel they make me a less attentive player and they take a lot of the fun out of things. I play WoW now because it is a mindless time filler, not because it is fun and engaging.

TLDR; Make viable suggestions not demands -- if you want a game to fit your idea of the perfect game, go drop the money and build a studio to make your own. Suggestions and constructive criticism don't hurt and could help shape the game, but don't expect them to do a 180 just because you want them to. They are not catering to everyone. They are building Steven's vision.

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