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Why i will not be playing AoC
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I told you exactly how. Did you read my post?
Don't know if the devs have mentioned what type of content will be in instanced dungeons though, but neither do you, which is my point. [/quote]
why are they unknown? they should have at least a theory for us. they should be able to give us something. PVP has been getting a ton of great ideas and theories. i want the PVE info. [/quote]
Wonder how much of the content is tied to Lore or behind it. They have kept a pretty tight lid on most of it.
They did say the instanced stuff was reserved for story telling.
I can say the same about WoW, all i see is a game with faceless population and an identity of carebearing. Those things dont appeal in Ashes, as i said earlier, we dont need a second wow, nor do we care if wow gets killed by it, we want AoC. And AoC is built on competition and rivalry, you want to farm mobs in your "safe bubble", you go to wow and auto-lfr to clear and get BiS's. The problem is as i see it, you dont want "challenging content", you want a "challenging" pve content behind an instanced wall, so you could get the best loot without competing for it.
/bump™️
nobody is asking for a wow 2. well i'm sure there are. but if you read my post you will see what i said about that. this game needs some real feedback. i do not see the community doing a good job of that so i am trying to figure out what you guys are missing to help bridge the gap in knowledge. btw WoW is extremely populated if you add in the classic servers. not really the same at all. still has the most players and i believe its time is far past what it should be.
why are they unknown? they should have at least a theory for us. they should be able to give us something. PVP has been getting a ton of great ideas and theories. i want the PVE info. [/quote]
Wonder how much of the content is tied to Lore or behind it. They have kept a pretty tight lid on most of it.
They did say the instanced stuff was reserved for story telling. [/quote]
there is ways to inform the PVE community without spoiling lore. however i am curious to the lore.
i dont see how that would happen. a meter just lets us see how we are doing. lets us improve and experience the content at a more educated level. so we can down more difficult content. this would not take away from any other content. it is all still relevant to the world and the same guilds and teams would be doing that content aswell. I did not just raid i also ranked in PVP.
the hardest instanced raid in the game should drop the bis items. however i think they should be materials that should be smelted or refined by masters, then forged by masters into something. just my opinion.
I see no point in any further discussion, we have fundamentally different points of view. It was a nice prolonged dialogue, but our ways will separate now, thanks for the discussion, had fun.
But that said I actually kind of agree with some of the points...
This is just my opinion though.
-PVP and Raid PVE ideally should have distinct instancing at highest levels. Its not fun to ward of rival gankers during a raid fight. And in general the communities who engage in each tend to be largely different bases in my experience.
-I get why development might feel the focus on add-ons isn't always helpful but in my experience DPS and Inc DMG Parsing is almost a must for Raiding. Players need an objective measure to know what's working and isn't and how to improve themselves.
And... idk... I just find having those personal goals in mind to be fun. I'm not sure getting rid of them will get rid of elitism like ppl think. That said a lot of other add-ons are less helpful and there needs to be a vetting process.
-40 man group size is a large group size to be fun to coordinate for and find attendance for - assuming the boss is designed to be technically challenging and not just an excuse to get people outside into the world (the largest raid sizes should focus on something close to 20-man imo and I've even had a lot of fun with 10-mans) the element of personal skill is also diluted in group sizes that large and the focus is more on managing weaker links. What op said is also right that you have to re-explain fights a lot whenever new players join a raid and with larger group sizes that happens more as they tend to be less steady.
Personally (coming from mostly a Rift/EQ2 raider) I don't know if anything will be a WoW killer until WoW kills itself. So much of the playerbase is locked up in the game already and its not necessarily because of quality, at this point its less of a game and more of a social network for nostalgia. WOW may have been one to help launch the mmo genre, and that has my respect, but its also the game that's hurt it the most too. For better and worse its defined a lot that followed it.
Hey "Old School",
BiS items will be crafted not static drops.
Rember Thunder Fury?
You should try spending more time on the wiki and get educated before trying to indoctrinate everybody with your "correct think."
WoW is popular because it caters to a lot of people, to have decent gear you do not have to be actually good at the game. The systems are extremely simplistic and the player base is large because it was the first MMO to really go big in the early/mid 2000. People play the game because it is for most people their first real MMO. it is familiar, it's a safe space you can say, and again it is not very in-depth. (system / feature-wise)
WoW does not have content that is that difficult either, Mythic+ is challenging but also there it is WoW ... there is only so much they can do when it comes down to creating content ... (age of the game and etc)
Player numbers are of course important but let's be honest since WoW released it has not had any real big competition. The attempts of Swtor and etc were well ... sad. FF14 has a big IP carrying the game as well, the same goes for ESO + it's a different style of MMO in a weird sense.
In my personal opinion WoW and AoC have little in common and trying to compare them is like you would compare Archeage with WoW, it makes no sense.
I personally believe that games such as Gw2, ESO, maybe even BDO have a lot more to lose with AoC coming out in a few years then WoW. These games have not that much in common either but they have an audience that fits the "profile'' better. (large scale PvP, more build complexity, etc) Again this is my personal opinion.
Do not take this the wrong way but it sounds like AoC might not be your cup of tea. I would advise to follow the development and decide later on
I personally do not understand the need for add-ons, you clearly claim to have experience so, in my opinion, you should be skilled enough to have the insight and knowledge to have some kind of a headstart vs. a new player.
i think you aggressive anti WoW players need to chill out and realize a outsiders opinion is exactly what the game needs to succeed. hive mind only goes so far when your hive is only so big.
I don't think anyone here disagrees that outside opinions are a good thing, that's why we're all here giving feedback right?
Everyone here seems to have a problem with how unbending and unreasonable your arguments are. You aren't considering other points of view and what merit they have.
lets be honest. Its the most popular MMO because it is still the best place to Raid, PVP, and RP. There is a huge community of loyal WoW players from all sorts of different years. Not to mention classic brought back alot. People have to enjoy playing the game or it dies. plain and simple. I do not agree and i think we need objective minds if we are going to make AoC a game that will be relevant. attacking WoW players and WoW does not help AoC. examples from the best MMO out there is just what it is. examples.
lol you need a hug?
i said i would be keeping my eye out for updates and would pop in. got anything to add to the discussion?
I think your mainstream elitist carbon copy wow player mind set is played out. It has been for literally over a decade.
I get it, you're scared of meaningful pvp, and are worried you can't wag your epeen around out side of it.
Either that you're just too proud to admit you don't know how to get to the wiki.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
First of all as a side note: WoW best place to PvP and RP made me laugh
Raiding wise WoW is not bad, it has a lot to offer both old and new content. The reason classic is popular is that people go back for .... nostalgia nothing else.
WoW had a big and popular IP, compared to other MMO's back then. It was the first MMO to actually feel and look good back then and it offered good content back then, the graphics aged well. The best MMO is an opinion that you have, not everyone will think my favorite MMO is the best. So I would stop using that 'argument' if I were you.
I have nothing against WoW at all, I am glad there is a MMO for people that enjoy the warcraft setting and etc. All I am trying to point out is that AoC is not WoW. I have the impression you feel like you are being attacked, which is certainly not the case.
Addons: are not a must and if this stops you from playing the game then that is your choice. If you add addons into a game you cannot remove them or it would be hell on the forums and etc. not having them might lead to illegal use but the vast majority of the community will not risk it and just enjoy the game and still clear all the content
"Take the pros we have learned from other games and make an ORIGINAL game."
That is an oxymoron.
The thing is that you are not saying "some things I want in the game" you said "why I won't play this game" (in a game in prealpha), that's the first thing you should change.
Second, instead of going to the megathread about DPS meter (for example), you say that's a problem of the game and you are not accepting arguments deffending that. This is multiboxing and calling some dev decisions (dpsmeter, addons, etc) "problems" or "flaws", they got their reasons, go check those threads.
Third, instead of making a quick and summarized post, you make it long and boring to read, I suggest you to make it shorter next time.
P.D.: I will say again that stuff about changing "problem" to "I would like it to be this way" when talking about dev decisions and not real problems, it will make the rest of the people more accessible and "less angry" while reading your post.
I like that there won't be addons, it will force people to play the game and just enjoy it instead of this toxic elitist bs. You even see it on basic games like classic WoW where its all about the numbers when they have a 1-2 button rotation and spend hours getting world buffs. Just look forward to enjoying a game instead of min maxxing. if you see someone standing in the fire then you know they're either new or oblivious. You will judge people based on different things.
I never argued that dps meters hurt the community. I'm not even necessarily against dps meters. However, I am against a higher percentage of instanced PvE content that you want so much. This will hurt the community, because a lot of people who are into that stuff are the type to have the attitude of "I will not PvP under any conditions". That's fine in games like WoW, but that's not what this game is about. This happens in so many games, that the examples are too many to list.
Once games start catering to this PvE content crowd, a vocal portion start demanding ways to avoid PvP entirely. Just one example of this happening recently is New World. This used to be an open world PvP game, but guess what? A bunch of people like you complained and so they changed it into a flagged PvP game where players can go through the game without ever having to experience the risk of PvP. Now the player-base is fractured as a result of trying to appease both the carebears and PvPers, and I guarantee you that this game is going to die in about 6 months after launch, and the entire experience will be watered-down.
AoC wants a return of MMOs to more meaningful, dynamic content. Steven himself said he wants more risk/reward and not the participation trophies that everyone gets in most other MMOs these days from fighting instanced, static PvE content. You'll have to PvE with the risk of unknown PvP variables thrown in the mix. And if you succeed, it'll feel much more memorable than if you were watching a DPS meter fighting a static boss for the thousandth time that you already know all the moves for. I think you're missing this point about AoC, it's not meant to be a safe space for you to sequestor yourself into PvE static content. It's meant to keep everyone interacting with each other in a busy open world with lots of risk. This is really not your type of game. FFIV, WoW, or hundreds of other games cater to players like yourself.
22:24
Thanks for linking this!
I like the idea of variable boss moods and mechanics to keep things fresh.
I don't like as much the idea of variable boss difficulty unless its clearly flagged because I think killing a boss should mean something objectively recognizable. Otherwise its kind of like, 'so what, you killed the red dragon, hasn't everyone?'oh but this instance of it was especially hard'. Doesn't have the same impact you know?
That said, I'm just putting that out there, I'm still missing a lot of details on how it will work that may change my mind, and I don't expect the development team to change that aspect at this point, and sometimes its good when they listen to their own instincts instead of the forums. I'm still excited for the game. But what can I say, my own personal stance is that I like raid bosses to have clear difficulties so that getting to see and beat them acts as a reward for objective raid progression.
Highly unlikely that there will be a higher percentage of instanced PvE content. Good chance that PvE players who actually play the game won't be asking for it, but...
We have to play to know how it will actually feel.
i mean the dude didnt ask( or he didnt seem to want that , by me ) for carebear treatment he is just giving feedback on the PvE things and he hopes for the devs to focus more on the PvE too , thats ok as a feedback.