I'm really asking what the consequences are for one server where it's not possible to fend off people from a nice cluster of materials or an open world raid boss.
Do tell!!
Just because its a good bunch of resources doesn't mean you will be attacked. Mainly based off the consequences, if it was something extremely rare that doesn't spawn often maybe there be a higher chance they attack if they see you. I don't think this will be a common thing mainly because of how often one will be gather resources for, you are taking corruption hits for resources that often all the time. In the end you would just lose far more then gain. Its not a realistic situation.
A more fitting situation would be you see a guild doing something and dec, and the guild dec takes 15 minutes to go through or such. Giving you some leeway and warning.
I think you're almost getting it now, so I'll springboard off you.
We got to 'well people will just have Alts you can't attack'.
But we also have 'The Corruption system will deter attacking'.
Why wouldn't you just make an Alt that is much lower level and go with a friend? The Alt gathers the materials, or holds them. If you the 'rival' kill this low level Alt to get the mats... now you are red. Very red.
There is no situation I can see in which you 'get very red for killing lowbies' to the point where you should think twice about doing it, AND where other people won't use low level Bait Alts to gather with since Artisanship isn't part of level.
I'm taking bets on how long it takes before we see such a character named Karmabomb.
That is something I've already thought about and its a good idea to be honest. If people are working together that is just something you will have to deal with, it means you will need a better plan yourself. It is why the corruption system will be strong since if you are in groups its high risk to get corrupt per kill so you just have to dec them if they are in a guild.
Though this is getting into another whole discussion with corruption and that is a system that will need to be tested in more of a final form.
The protective group can be PKed as I said alrdy in the previous post. Not a good answer.
That is if there is anyone willing to PK an entire group of people, also while the targeted group doesn't fight back at all. That's a very limited amount of cases.
You do understand that Artisan skill is completely unrelated to Adventuring level, right?
You can be a level 1 Master Gatherer in this game.
Honestly its kind of vague on the wiki as to what they mean by progression between leveling class and leveling artisan skills not having a correlation. That being said, having a level 1 character gathering high tier materials efficiently is kind of a laughable concept even if that is possible. According to the wiki, the amount of time it will take to get to that level of artisan skill even as a max level player will take a ton of time and resources, so that would be even more so for a low level alt.
And I will put this here as an easy fix to prevent that... Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
You dont even have to go that far. Players cant expect to become rich or advance, completelly shielded from pvp encounters.
As somebody said alrdy very accuretly, people here perform mental gymnastics in order to descredit the plain possition stating that pure PvE cannot happen in Ashes, and the studio should not develop pve servers at the expence of the main product and its future expansions/content.
You do understand that Artisan skill is completely unrelated to Adventuring level, right?
You can be a level 1 Master Gatherer in this game.
Honestly its kind of vague on the wiki as to what they mean by progression between leveling class and leveling artisan skills not having a correlation. That being said, having a level 1 character gathering high tier materials efficiently is kind of a laughable concept even if that is possible. According to the wiki, the amount of time it will take to get to that level of artisan skill even as a max level player will take a ton of time and resources, so that would be even more so for a low level alt.
And I will put this here as an easy fix to prevent that... Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
You dont even have to go that far. Players cant expect to become rich or advance, completelly shielded from pvp encounters.
As somebody said alrdy very accuretly, people here perform mental gymnastics in order to descredit the plain possition stating that pure PvE cannot happen in Ashes, and the studio should not develop pve servers at the expence of the main product and its future expansions/content.
Oh I agree, I was simply pointing out a simple way to fix a sort of loophole @Azherae pointed out sort of? Even if it would be incredibly inefficient. May as well lock it up tight and give the team more ideas to make their systems harder to get around
so you just have to dec them if they are in a guild.
Just to make sure, by "dec" do you mean "declare war on their guild"? Cause if yes, afaik that's a fairly bigger and more involved process than just pressing a button when you need it.
I'm really asking what the consequences are for one server where it's not possible to fend off people from a nice cluster of materials or an open world raid boss.
Do tell!!
Just because its a good bunch of resources doesn't mean you will be attacked. Mainly based off the consequences, if it was something extremely rare that doesn't spawn often maybe there be a higher chance they attack if they see you. I don't think this will be a common thing mainly because of how often one will be gather resources for, you are taking corruption hits for resources that often all the time. In the end you would just lose far more then gain. Its not a realistic situation.
A more fitting situation would be you see a guild doing something and dec, and the guild dec takes 15 minutes to go through or such. Giving you some leeway and warning.
I think you're almost getting it now, so I'll springboard off you.
We got to 'well people will just have Alts you can't attack'.
But we also have 'The Corruption system will deter attacking'.
Why wouldn't you just make an Alt that is much lower level and go with a friend? The Alt gathers the materials, or holds them. If you the 'rival' kill this low level Alt to get the mats... now you are red. Very red.
There is no situation I can see in which you 'get very red for killing lowbies' to the point where you should think twice about doing it, AND where other people won't use low level Bait Alts to gather with since Artisanship isn't part of level.
I'm taking bets on how long it takes before we see such a character named Karmabomb.
That is something I've already thought about and its a good idea to be honest. If people are working together that is just something you will have to deal with, it means you will need a better plan yourself. It is why the corruption system will be strong since if you are in groups its high risk to get corrupt per kill so you just have to dec them if they are in a guild.
Though this is getting into another whole discussion with corruption and that is a system that will need to be tested in more of a final form.
Let's go in this direction then.
"It is also easier to declare Guild Wars on the noOWPVP server."
If you tell me 'On this server, before level 35, owPvP is opt-in, but to balance this we made Guild Wars easier to declare and added some 'penalties' for being guildless before level 35'.
Do we PvP-lovers still have an argument that stands up under the Corruption system as we understand it? Cause so far we are at...
"I need to be able to kill level 10 Gatherers who stealth their way to good resource spots because I was there first, Corruption be damned."
That'll work for me, like I said, Gathering, I'm good with, as an argument. But let's not act like it's a STRONG argument. We're just riding inertia right now, and we're not even riding it to the good place.
If anybody here thinks that they have a barrier, protecting them from players willing to pvp or pk, either because they are a pver, rper, gatherer/crafter whatever, they are deluded.
Just like eso, ff14 and other such games did not waste time opening PvP servers people should not demand IS to do that with AoC.
I must say, I never expected to unleash my flaming in this topic, having realized that I took the bait, but man... the usual "sophisticated" contrarials here took the hook right out of mouth and gave me what I wanted. To tell people off in a topic titled "we need pve servers and here is why:" by chancalot, dygz and azrae.
You do understand that Artisan skill is completely unrelated to Adventuring level, right?
You can be a level 1 Master Gatherer in this game.
Honestly its kind of vague on the wiki as to what they mean by progression between leveling class and leveling artisan skills not having a correlation. That being said, having a level 1 character gathering high tier materials efficiently is kind of a laughable concept even if that is possible. According to the wiki, the amount of time it will take to get to that level of artisan skill even as a max level player will take a ton of time and resources, so that would be even more so for a low level alt.
And I will put this here as an easy fix to prevent that... Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
You dont even have to go that far. Players cant expect to become rich or advance, completelly shielded from pvp encounters.
As somebody said alrdy very accuretly, people here perform mental gymnastics in order to descredit the plain possition stating that pure PvE cannot happen in Ashes, and the studio should not develop pve servers at the expence of the main product and its future expansions/content.
Oh I agree, I was simply pointing out a simple way to fix a sort of loophole @Azherae pointed out sort of? Even if it would be incredibly inefficient. May as well lock it up tight and give the team more ideas to make their systems harder to get around
Right but why is that your goal?
Cause we're getting to 'no, we should implement whatever it takes to make it easier to kill people whose playstyle we don't agree with, or that we suspect are using some protection the game offers to get ahead'.
From the outside, looking in at this conversation as a PvE player, I'd think 'these people are maniacs, this game is not for me'. Which is probably why we get that post x3 after every LiveStream.
You do understand that Artisan skill is completely unrelated to Adventuring level, right?
You can be a level 1 Master Gatherer in this game.
Honestly its kind of vague on the wiki as to what they mean by progression between leveling class and leveling artisan skills not having a correlation. That being said, having a level 1 character gathering high tier materials efficiently is kind of a laughable concept even if that is possible. According to the wiki, the amount of time it will take to get to that level of artisan skill even as a max level player will take a ton of time and resources, so that would be even more so for a low level alt.
And I will put this here as an easy fix to prevent that... Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
You dont even have to go that far. Players cant expect to become rich or advance, completelly shielded from pvp encounters.
As somebody said alrdy very accuretly, people here perform mental gymnastics in order to descredit the plain possition stating that pure PvE cannot happen in Ashes, and the studio should not develop pve servers at the expence of the main product and its future expansions/content.
Oh I agree, I was simply pointing out a simple way to fix a sort of loophole @Azherae pointed out sort of? Even if it would be incredibly inefficient. May as well lock it up tight and give the team more ideas to make their systems harder to get around
There was never a loophole. Just azrae crafting a narrative. No credit to be given to anyone. Not having a go at you. Just straightening things out. The devs wont protect people from the PvX element.
There's a lot of separate points in your first post. As a general response I'd say you're worrying way too much. That's just my personal opinion based on how I see the systems of the game interacting with each other.
But an invulnerable class of players in a game like Ashes would not be good. There are all kinds of implications to that...trolling/griefing, in game economy, espionage/scouting, botting, gathering as you mentioned...entire core philosophies of the game would be trivialized and diminished to varying extents.
Up to level 35? I mean that's 15 levels from max. Whatever level, you're talking about a class of player that is untouchable. No one can do anything about them. Major implications there.
But some of your concerns are valid. They aren't all weird scenarios of stuff that's never happened before in a pvp game. But to me, it's as if you're imagining Ashes as a hardcore, full loot, zero consequence pvp system. I don't see it that way so we kind of just have two very different visions.
You do understand that Artisan skill is completely unrelated to Adventuring level, right?
You can be a level 1 Master Gatherer in this game.
Honestly its kind of vague on the wiki as to what they mean by progression between leveling class and leveling artisan skills not having a correlation. That being said, having a level 1 character gathering high tier materials efficiently is kind of a laughable concept even if that is possible. According to the wiki, the amount of time it will take to get to that level of artisan skill even as a max level player will take a ton of time and resources, so that would be even more so for a low level alt.
And I will put this here as an easy fix to prevent that... Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
You dont even have to go that far. Players cant expect to become rich or advance, completelly shielded from pvp encounters.
As somebody said alrdy very accuretly, people here perform mental gymnastics in order to descredit the plain possition stating that pure PvE cannot happen in Ashes, and the studio should not develop pve servers at the expence of the main product and its future expansions/content.
Oh I agree, I was simply pointing out a simple way to fix a sort of loophole @Azherae pointed out sort of? Even if it would be incredibly inefficient. May as well lock it up tight and give the team more ideas to make their systems harder to get around
Right but why is that your goal?
Cause we're getting to 'no, we should implement whatever it takes to make it easier to kill people whose playstyle we don't agree with, or that we suspect are using some protection the game offers to get ahead'.
From the outside, looking in at this conversation as a PvE player, I'd think 'these people are maniacs, this game is not for me'. Which is probably why we get that post x3 after every LiveStream.
Well for starters its a PvX game. So the goal is to maintain the PvP AND the PvE. Opting out of the PvP is inherently bad for the systems being designed for this game. Less PvP is bad, and Less PvE is bad.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Consensual PvP only.
Everyone keeps saying the game is designed for PvX and I get that. You can have the mandatory PVP associated with the things that would require it such as node sieges and the PVP zone around caravans, etc. Without having the full open world flagging. Corruption can still be a thing, it could come into play if someone goes on an NPC killing spree or something.
If ashes launches and has 20 servers to choose from and 2-4 are for the people that don't care for PvP but want to play the game, then let them play there. Why should the other 80% of players care how that 20% portion wants to play?
In my opinion saying it shouldn't be there is similar to me saying non combat pets are dumb, and just a waste, and not how the game should be played.... 80% of the population doesn't walk around with them anyways, only 20% collect and enjoy them, but I don't want them to enjoy themselves over there...
And to the people saying stuff like
"You are selfish for not willing to offer a bit of fun to PvP-ers." and "You would not be there for me to PK". Those are the exact reasons some people want the PvE servers, to get away from players that act like that.
I've been reading your comments and I still don't understand the point you're trying to make here. The fact that you're playing a PvX game makes open world PvP consensual by default, because you agree to the rules by playing a game with set and public rules.
Consensual and non-consensual are standard terminology and just playing the game does not change non-consensual to consensual. If a player cannot choose when he/she wants to fight in PvP (for example get ganked) that is always non-consensual PvP. He would not touch to any consensual PvP part of the game, sieges, caravans, other battlegrounds, and those can stay as are. However, he would like to change open world PvP rules from non-consensual PvP to consensual PvP which would mean in practice that non-combatant green players cannot be attacked anymore. Open world PvP would happen only between those players who are flagged to combatant. Perhaps PvE-server as a term is here a little bit misleading because most of the PvP would be still involded in this theoretical server.
Logging in is consenting to PvP.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
From the outside, looking in at this conversation as a PvE player, I'd think 'these people are maniacs, this game is not for me'. Which is probably why we get that post x3 after every LiveStream.
Yep, that's always the case this is exactly why any of my "fun" stories from L2 would sound like ramblings of a masochist to any pvp-disliker. And when I say that I want Ashes to have the exact same system as the one that led to me having those stories - people get spooked and say the game will die right on release because all pvp games have died in the past.
@Keyozen Man your bait thread derailed out of control
Next Match
I will be taking your bets here
I don't pick on the small-fry, James.
Unless they're picking my herbs or something.
Besides, by their own declaration, they would definitely PK me, so clearly I'm doomed to lose and your betting pool is pointless. I have been overwhelmed by their confidence.
I see, well for me, i don't mind preying upon the weak if i see fit.
But after his "Ran the 1# Guild in his sub-2K player NW server" Boast tentative, i might have to reconsider....
Don't you only play dead mmos than play new ones when they are released?
New World #1 and my man is talking about Dead MMOs
Nah, Lineage 2 isn't the only MMORPG i play(even tho is the one i played the most) but i have a bias towards playing MMORPGs that have strong PvP focus such as Archeage and a bit of BDO, i dropped NW like a hot potato as soon as they made owPvP optional and after testing bug fiesta Sieges.
Looking at you boast about something like #1 guild in a NW server makes me almost feel bad for you on how massacred your guild would get in games like AA or L2.
And i would massacre you in Shadowbane lmao, I would massacre your whole guild by myself in BDO.
All i hear from you is you play old dead mmorpgs. I played old ones and then moved onto new ones. PvPing in a dead mmo means nothing years down the line even more so. I played new world at its peak before I stopped like every other mmorpg. Funny thing is new world has had way more players then your mmorpg don't get it twisted bud. Only big mmorpg that was relevant with a ton of players was WoW.
Haha scary scary
Let me take your word on that and say: Thanks God Steven's main inspirations for Ashes is L2 and AA and not Shadowbane and BDO!
Funny thing is A single Lineage 2 server would hold ~5K players back in 2003 and a NW server is barely able to hold 2K in 2021!
Hey
I enjoyed shadowbane back when it came out... Was an upgrade from my UO gaming...
Ride that inertia, guys. I at least can run if this goes south (either by game collapse or Steven fold) since I don't hate Eastern MMOs.
I hope so dearly that T&L doesn't turn to utter shite, but that hope is barely even an ember. And AA2 is not too far from there too. The chances are, both will be shitty p2w games where you can't do anything in pvp unless you've dumped a truckload of money onto the dev studio
I'm really asking what the consequences are for one server where it's not possible to fend off people from a nice cluster of materials or an open world raid boss.
Do tell!!
Just because its a good bunch of resources doesn't mean you will be attacked. Mainly based off the consequences, if it was something extremely rare that doesn't spawn often maybe there be a higher chance they attack if they see you. I don't think this will be a common thing mainly because of how often one will be gather resources for, you are taking corruption hits for resources that often all the time. In the end you would just lose far more then gain. Its not a realistic situation.
A more fitting situation would be you see a guild doing something and dec, and the guild dec takes 15 minutes to go through or such. Giving you some leeway and warning.
I think you're almost getting it now, so I'll springboard off you.
We got to 'well people will just have Alts you can't attack'.
But we also have 'The Corruption system will deter attacking'.
Why wouldn't you just make an Alt that is much lower level and go with a friend? The Alt gathers the materials, or holds them. If you the 'rival' kill this low level Alt to get the mats... now you are red. Very red.
There is no situation I can see in which you 'get very red for killing lowbies' to the point where you should think twice about doing it, AND where other people won't use low level Bait Alts to gather with since Artisanship isn't part of level.
I'm taking bets on how long it takes before we see such a character named Karmabomb.
That is something I've already thought about and its a good idea to be honest. If people are working together that is just something you will have to deal with, it means you will need a better plan yourself. It is why the corruption system will be strong since if you are in groups its high risk to get corrupt per kill so you just have to dec them if they are in a guild.
Though this is getting into another whole discussion with corruption and that is a system that will need to be tested in more of a final form.
Let's go in this direction then.
"It is also easier to declare Guild Wars on the noOWPVP server."
If you tell me 'On this server, before level 35, owPvP is opt-in, but to balance this we made Guild Wars easier to declare and added some 'penalties' for being guildless before level 35'.
Do we PvP-lovers still have an argument that stands up under the Corruption system as we understand it? Cause so far we are at...
"I need to be able to kill level 10 Gatherers who stealth their way to good resource spots because I was there first, Corruption be damned."
That'll work for me, like I said, Gathering, I'm good with, as an argument. But let's not act like it's a STRONG argument. We're just riding inertia right now, and we're not even riding it to the good place.
Honestly I'm even sure what is exactly being argued right now lmao.
I'm really asking what the consequences are for one server where it's not possible to fend off people from a nice cluster of materials or an open world raid boss.
Do tell!!
Just because its a good bunch of resources doesn't mean you will be attacked. Mainly based off the consequences, if it was something extremely rare that doesn't spawn often maybe there be a higher chance they attack if they see you. I don't think this will be a common thing mainly because of how often one will be gather resources for, you are taking corruption hits for resources that often all the time. In the end you would just lose far more then gain. Its not a realistic situation.
A more fitting situation would be you see a guild doing something and dec, and the guild dec takes 15 minutes to go through or such. Giving you some leeway and warning.
I think you're almost getting it now, so I'll springboard off you.
We got to 'well people will just have Alts you can't attack'.
But we also have 'The Corruption system will deter attacking'.
Why wouldn't you just make an Alt that is much lower level and go with a friend? The Alt gathers the materials, or holds them. If you the 'rival' kill this low level Alt to get the mats... now you are red. Very red.
There is no situation I can see in which you 'get very red for killing lowbies' to the point where you should think twice about doing it, AND where other people won't use low level Bait Alts to gather with since Artisanship isn't part of level.
I'm taking bets on how long it takes before we see such a character named Karmabomb.
That is something I've already thought about and its a good idea to be honest. If people are working together that is just something you will have to deal with, it means you will need a better plan yourself. It is why the corruption system will be strong since if you are in groups its high risk to get corrupt per kill so you just have to dec them if they are in a guild.
Though this is getting into another whole discussion with corruption and that is a system that will need to be tested in more of a final form.
Let's go in this direction then.
"It is also easier to declare Guild Wars on the noOWPVP server."
If you tell me 'On this server, before level 35, owPvP is opt-in, but to balance this we made Guild Wars easier to declare and added some 'penalties' for being guildless before level 35'.
Do we PvP-lovers still have an argument that stands up under the Corruption system as we understand it? Cause so far we are at...
"I need to be able to kill level 10 Gatherers who stealth their way to good resource spots because I was there first, Corruption be damned."
That'll work for me, like I said, Gathering, I'm good with, as an argument. But let's not act like it's a STRONG argument. We're just riding inertia right now, and we're not even riding it to the good place.
Honestly I'm even sure what is exactly being argued right now lmao.
There is no argument. Just misdirections and empty words.
Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
I like that this idea is also somewhat bot deterrent, on top of that i would add things like "amount of materials carriable based on life skill level", "amount of materials received based on life skill level" which would also give a sense of progression.
Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
I like that this idea is also somewhat bot deterrent, on top of that i would add things like "amount of materials carriable based on life skill level", "amount of materials received based on life skill level" which would also give a sense of progression.
I actually love those ideas! Extra extra bot deterrent. Could also be as simple as unlocking bag slots at certain levels.
If anybody here thinks that they have a barrier, protecting them from players willing to pvp or pk, either because they are a pver, rper, gatherer/crafter whatever, they are deluded.
Just like eso, ff14 and other such games did not waste time opening PvP servers people should not demand IS to do that with AoC.
I must say, I never expected to unleash my flaming in this topic, having realized that I took the bait, but man... the usual "sophisticated" contrarials here took the hook right out of mouth and gave me what I wanted. To tell people off in a topic titled "we need pve servers and here is why:" by chancalot, dygz and azrae.
Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
I like that this idea is also somewhat bot deterrent, on top of that i would add things like "amount of materials carriable based on life skill level", "amount of materials received based on life skill level" which would also give a sense of progression.
I actually love those ideas! Extra extra bot deterrent. Could also be as simple as unlocking bag slots at certain levels.
The more bot deterrent the better(As long as you don't literally remove trading from the game lmao)!
One of the reasons i don't even entertain the idea of PvE servers for Ashes, is that "PvE games" are one of the biggest attractions for bots(specially if free to play where they can make as many accs as they want) and how carefree the bots can be in a PvP-less settings, without any threat of being crushed down by players crossing their path.
Thankfully Ashes has both owPVP and Subscription, adding your idea of life skill levels making them even more vulnerable to players by decreasing their lv 1 life skillers protection from corruption is excelent, add my ideas of efficiency reduction for lower level life skills and the bots profitability gets lower, lifespan gets lower and risk gets higher!
Make both crafting levels, and class levels count towards the amount of corruption a character gives. If they are level 1, but have mastered an artisan skill. Treat them as a max level character in regards to how much corruption they give after being killed. Simple fix.
I like that this idea is also somewhat bot deterrent, on top of that i would add things like "amount of materials carriable based on life skill level", "amount of materials received based on life skill level" which would also give a sense of progression.
I actually love those ideas! Extra extra bot deterrent. Could also be as simple as unlocking bag slots at certain levels.
The more bot deterrent the better(As long as you don't literally remove trading from the game lmao)!
One of the reasons i don't even entertain the idea of PvE servers for Ashes, is that "PvE games" are one of the biggest attractions for bots(specially if free to play where they can make as many accs as they want) and how carefree the bots can be in a PvP-less settings, without any threat of being crushed down by players crossing their path.
Thankfully Ashes has both owPVP and Subscription, adding your idea of life skill levels making them even more vulnerable to players by decreasing their lv 1 life skillers protection from corruption is excelent, add my ideas of efficiency reduction for lower level life skills and the bots profitability gets lower, lifespan gets lower and risk gets higher!
who knew a bait post could be so productive! Honestly I hope the big man sees what we have just said. Super simple effective ways to hurt bots.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
So, I've been watching this thread unfold with some interest.
Some of you absolutely will take some offense at this (an probably should), but this thread just emphasizes why some open world PvP centric players are generally considered little more than bottom feeding scum.
The argument about a high level gatherer, but with a low combat level is a perfect example of this.
If a group of players put the effort in to bring such a character to a high level area with good materials, then no, you shouldnt presume that the system is broken, or argue that you should be able to attack that low level player. They out the effort in to make it harder for you, they should reap the benefits of that effort.
Asking for a change for situations like this ((or expecting one) is literally bottom feeding.
If you come across someone that does this, you have three options.
1, respect the effort they put in, and let then go on their way.
2, respect the effort they put in, kill them, take the materials and corruption.
3, respect the effort they put in, and kill that low level player with your own low level player that you put that same level of effort to get there.
Arguing for an easy way out if this where you get everything you want is actually just pathetic.
Comments
That is something I've already thought about and its a good idea to be honest. If people are working together that is just something you will have to deal with, it means you will need a better plan yourself. It is why the corruption system will be strong since if you are in groups its high risk to get corrupt per kill so you just have to dec them if they are in a guild.
Though this is getting into another whole discussion with corruption and that is a system that will need to be tested in more of a final form.
You dont even have to go that far. Players cant expect to become rich or advance, completelly shielded from pvp encounters.
As somebody said alrdy very accuretly, people here perform mental gymnastics in order to descredit the plain possition stating that pure PvE cannot happen in Ashes, and the studio should not develop pve servers at the expence of the main product and its future expansions/content.
Oh I agree, I was simply pointing out a simple way to fix a sort of loophole @Azherae pointed out sort of? Even if it would be incredibly inefficient. May as well lock it up tight and give the team more ideas to make their systems harder to get around
Let's go in this direction then.
"It is also easier to declare Guild Wars on the noOWPVP server."
If you tell me 'On this server, before level 35, owPvP is opt-in, but to balance this we made Guild Wars easier to declare and added some 'penalties' for being guildless before level 35'.
Do we PvP-lovers still have an argument that stands up under the Corruption system as we understand it? Cause so far we are at...
"I need to be able to kill level 10 Gatherers who stealth their way to good resource spots because I was there first, Corruption be damned."
That'll work for me, like I said, Gathering, I'm good with, as an argument. But let's not act like it's a STRONG argument. We're just riding inertia right now, and we're not even riding it to the good place.
Easy and a very viable solution. Mine however prevented any restriction and allowed for more PvP though! Haha
Just like eso, ff14 and other such games did not waste time opening PvP servers people should not demand IS to do that with AoC.
I must say, I never expected to unleash my flaming in this topic, having realized that I took the bait, but man... the usual "sophisticated" contrarials here took the hook right out of mouth and gave me what I wanted. To tell people off in a topic titled "we need pve servers and here is why:" by chancalot, dygz and azrae.
Right but why is that your goal?
Cause we're getting to 'no, we should implement whatever it takes to make it easier to kill people whose playstyle we don't agree with, or that we suspect are using some protection the game offers to get ahead'.
From the outside, looking in at this conversation as a PvE player, I'd think 'these people are maniacs, this game is not for me'. Which is probably why we get that post x3 after every LiveStream.
There was never a loophole. Just azrae crafting a narrative. No credit to be given to anyone. Not having a go at you. Just straightening things out. The devs wont protect people from the PvX element.
There's a lot of separate points in your first post. As a general response I'd say you're worrying way too much. That's just my personal opinion based on how I see the systems of the game interacting with each other.
But an invulnerable class of players in a game like Ashes would not be good. There are all kinds of implications to that...trolling/griefing, in game economy, espionage/scouting, botting, gathering as you mentioned...entire core philosophies of the game would be trivialized and diminished to varying extents.
Up to level 35? I mean that's 15 levels from max. Whatever level, you're talking about a class of player that is untouchable. No one can do anything about them. Major implications there.
But some of your concerns are valid. They aren't all weird scenarios of stuff that's never happened before in a pvp game. But to me, it's as if you're imagining Ashes as a hardcore, full loot, zero consequence pvp system. I don't see it that way so we kind of just have two very different visions.
Well for starters its a PvX game. So the goal is to maintain the PvP AND the PvE. Opting out of the PvP is inherently bad for the systems being designed for this game. Less PvP is bad, and Less PvE is bad.
Logging in is consenting to PvP.
Hey
I enjoyed shadowbane back when it came out... Was an upgrade from my UO gaming...
Ride that inertia, guys. I at least can run if this goes south (either by game collapse or Steven fold) since I don't hate Eastern MMOs.
(Steven if somehow all this gets back to you, I love you keep doing your thing).
Honestly I'm even sure what is exactly being argued right now lmao.
See ya when you're gathering!
There is no argument. Just misdirections and empty words.
I like that this idea is also somewhat bot deterrent, on top of that i would add things like "amount of materials carriable based on life skill level", "amount of materials received based on life skill level" which would also give a sense of progression.
Aren't we all sinners?
I actually love those ideas! Extra extra bot deterrent. Could also be as simple as unlocking bag slots at certain levels.
This. Full stop.
Oh
He mad
😂
The more bot deterrent the better(As long as you don't literally remove trading from the game lmao)!
One of the reasons i don't even entertain the idea of PvE servers for Ashes, is that "PvE games" are one of the biggest attractions for bots(specially if free to play where they can make as many accs as they want) and how carefree the bots can be in a PvP-less settings, without any threat of being crushed down by players crossing their path.
Thankfully Ashes has both owPVP and Subscription, adding your idea of life skill levels making them even more vulnerable to players by decreasing their lv 1 life skillers protection from corruption is excelent, add my ideas of efficiency reduction for lower level life skills and the bots profitability gets lower, lifespan gets lower and risk gets higher!
Aren't we all sinners?
who knew a bait post could be so productive! Honestly I hope the big man sees what we have just said. Super simple effective ways to hurt bots.
Some of you absolutely will take some offense at this (an probably should), but this thread just emphasizes why some open world PvP centric players are generally considered little more than bottom feeding scum.
The argument about a high level gatherer, but with a low combat level is a perfect example of this.
If a group of players put the effort in to bring such a character to a high level area with good materials, then no, you shouldnt presume that the system is broken, or argue that you should be able to attack that low level player. They out the effort in to make it harder for you, they should reap the benefits of that effort.
Asking for a change for situations like this ((or expecting one) is literally bottom feeding.
If you come across someone that does this, you have three options.
1, respect the effort they put in, and let then go on their way.
2, respect the effort they put in, kill them, take the materials and corruption.
3, respect the effort they put in, and kill that low level player with your own low level player that you put that same level of effort to get there.
Arguing for an easy way out if this where you get everything you want is actually just pathetic.