Ferryman wrote: » Actually smart PKs should kill mainly combatants, corrupted players or lure non-combatants to flag, so they will not take corruption hit themselves.
George_Black wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » Actually smart PKs should kill mainly combatants, corrupted players or lure non-combatants to flag, so they will not take corruption hit themselves. ...?
NiKr wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » Actually smart PKs should kill mainly combatants, corrupted players or lure non-combatants to flag, so they will not take corruption hit themselves. Those are not PKers then. They're just pvpers. Or is that the joke you were trying to make?
Ferryman wrote: » Not a joke. There is not just one ultimate definition for PK. I have used to PK used whenever a player goes kill other players no matter what is the status of the target. I bet there is cultural differencies especially between different games. Anyhow, point was that because corruption system seams to be quite harsh imo (not saying for sure before testing though) it would need PKs to adapt to the situation if they want to maximise efficiency unless they are killing non-combatants just for fun.
NiKr wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » Not a joke. There is not just one ultimate definition for PK. I have used to PK used whenever a player goes kill other players no matter what is the status of the target. I bet there is cultural differencies especially between different games. Anyhow, point was that because corruption system seams to be quite harsh imo (not saying for sure before testing though) it would need PKs to adapt to the situation if they want to maximise efficiency unless they are killing non-combatants just for fun. I guess it's my experience/bias from L2, but to me PKer and PvPer are two different things, with different connotations and results. And due to AoC's flagging system being the same, I apply my L2's definition's to Ashes. You become corrupted only if you kill someone who doesn't fight back. That makes you a PlayerKiller. You don't become that in any other case, so they're all just PvPing.
sternzy wrote: » I don't really care which way the game leans. But I will say this... That other game started out as a pure open world PvP game. It turned into a complete gankfest as you would expect with people sitting in spawn zones killing everything indiscriminately. So, they tried to mitigate it a little as AoC will be attempting. That didn't work so they tried to mitigate it a lot and that didn't work either. No one cared about the consequences because in a worst case scenario you can just use a different account. Ashe's wont be attempting to limit the number of accounts people have so indeed people will absolutely be running multiple accounts to circumvent negative actions for indiscriminate PvP. You can apply this to every aspect of the game where there are limits or restrictions meant to be placed on gameplay. The larger guilds are going to purchase many spare accounts to hand out to specific people. If I remember correctly Ashe's will be monthly subscription only? This would make it even easier to do than some games because there is no upfront cost barrier to owning multiple accounts. Account A gets hot from ganking. Register account B and gank until account A is clean. Need a little more time to cool off? Register account C. At this point I can't imagine needing any more accounts to circumvent any ingame limitations. This totals a maximum of $45/month. $45/month is historically a drop in the bucket for the average modern day MMORPG player, to the point of being meaningless.
sternzy wrote: » Account A gets hot from ganking. Register account B and gank until account A is clean. Need a little more time to cool off? Register account C. At this point I can't imagine needing any more accounts to circumvent any ingame limitations. This totals a maximum of $45/month. $45/month is historically a drop in the bucket for the average modern day MMORPG player, to the point of being meaningless.
NiKr wrote: » sternzy wrote: » Account A gets hot from ganking. Register account B and gank until account A is clean. Need a little more time to cool off? Register account C. At this point I can't imagine needing any more accounts to circumvent any ingame limitations. This totals a maximum of $45/month. $45/month is historically a drop in the bucket for the average modern day MMORPG player, to the point of being meaningless. I know I won't be the one suffering from this kind of scheme, but if people have several accounts filled with several fully (or at least greatly) leveled characters just to gank a few dozen people once a week (if more often if they're literally operating the accounts with a whole group of people) - that's their right. Cause that is so damn much resources just to kill a few casuals that I can only admire the dedication. Though at that point I got no fucking clue why wouldn't they just farm whatever they need through normal means, if they have groups of people that are so dedicated to the game.
Azherae wrote: » Because the entire point is to hurt the casuals. That IS the gameplay.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Because the entire point is to hurt the casuals. That IS the gameplay. Yeah, I guess so. To me this kind of thinking is as alien as Noaani's defense of hardcore pve I guess I grew up in such a "proper pvp" bubble, that both extremes are too far from me. Or at least that's how I look back on my history in L2. There's probably some nostalgia bias too.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » The corruption system is harsh. But it should be so, as killing people who dont want to fight needs to be punished. Its a give take system too tho, as fighting back means you keep more of the loot you would otherwise lose while staying green.
Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Because the entire point is to hurt the casuals. That IS the gameplay. Yeah, I guess so. To me this kind of thinking is as alien as Noaani's defense of hardcore pve I guess I grew up in such a "proper pvp" bubble, that both extremes are too far from me. Or at least that's how I look back on my history in L2. There's probably some nostalgia bias too. Back in the day (and I would argue that this also includes any game that is mostly played for nostalgic value), the idea of having a good time by literally ruining the fun others are having wasn't really a thing. Now it is. In Archeage, people used to spend literal hours (as in, 12 or more per day) just sitting in their wagon on a bridge. This would block the bridge for all others, essentially cutting off trade. These people weren't doing anything, but were present the entire time (Trion could despawn them if they weren't present). Their idea of fun - for half the day or more, 7 days a week, for literal months - was to just ruin other peoples enjoyment. Trion bought the issue to XL for them to do something about, but XL refused to believe people would be that ridiculous, and said Trion must be exaggerating. I was asked by some people I knew from Trion to make as big a fuss about it on the forums as I could - and was told that the thread I do it in basically wouldn't be closed (barring real life threats). Not surprisingly, I had fun with that. XL saw the thread, and made changes to the game to prevent it happening. Point is, people absolutely will play a game with the sole intent of handing out a bad time to others. Self progression isn't really a concern (past what progression needs to be made to achieve the objective), and time isn't really a concern either. These people get the same kick from someone saying "fuck you", or "you're such a dick" as someone like me gets from killing an encounter that has stumped my guild for a month, or like someone such as yourself would get from winning a siege. This type of gameplay is as foreign to me as it is to you. I've seen it from the outside, but I don't understand what kind of person this is - only that they exist. Ashes absolutely will attract these people for the first 6 months of the games life, and Intrepid need to design the game around the notion that if people can do things like this, they will.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Because the entire point is to hurt the casuals. That IS the gameplay. Yeah, I guess so. To me this kind of thinking is as alien as Noaani's defense of hardcore pve I guess I grew up in such a "proper pvp" bubble, that both extremes are too far from me. Or at least that's how I look back on my history in L2. There's probably some nostalgia bias too. Back in the day (and I would argue that this also includes any game that is mostly played for nostalgic value), the idea of having a good time by literally ruining the fun others are having wasn't really a thing. Now it is. In Archeage, people used to spend literal hours (as in, 12 or more per day) just sitting in their wagon on a bridge. This would block the bridge for all others, essentially cutting off trade. These people weren't doing anything, but were present the entire time (Trion could despawn them if they weren't present). Their idea of fun - for half the day or more, 7 days a week, for literal months - was to just ruin other peoples enjoyment. Trion bought the issue to XL for them to do something about, but XL refused to believe people would be that ridiculous, and said Trion must be exaggerating. I was asked by some people I knew from Trion to make as big a fuss about it on the forums as I could - and was told that the thread I do it in basically wouldn't be closed (barring real life threats). Not surprisingly, I had fun with that. XL saw the thread, and made changes to the game to prevent it happening. Point is, people absolutely will play a game with the sole intent of handing out a bad time to others. Self progression isn't really a concern (past what progression needs to be made to achieve the objective), and time isn't really a concern either. These people get the same kick from someone saying "fuck you", or "you're such a dick" as someone like me gets from killing an encounter that has stumped my guild for a month, or like someone such as yourself would get from winning a siege. This type of gameplay is as foreign to me as it is to you. I've seen it from the outside, but I don't understand what kind of person this is - only that they exist. Ashes absolutely will attract these people for the first 6 months of the games life, and Intrepid need to design the game around the notion that if people can do things like this, they will. People 100% will that is why I try to raise red flags about it if there is any way systems can be exploited.
