Dygz wrote: » The only "justice" I care about is players having enough good sportsmanship to not grief other players with non-consensual PvP. Other players cannot perform "justice" against assholes who lack good sportsmanship. We will have to see whether the Corruption system provides enough "justice" that it's a sufficient deterrent for non-consensual PvP.
Warth wrote: » Not sure who thinks that L2 had a "niche" player base, but it kinda shows how little they know/knew about the game. It had between 1 and up to 2.5 Million active monthly subs during its peak times.
Kneczhevo wrote: » I'm a Carebear. And you don't see me crying. 😈
Mojottv wrote: » well its an mmo, means other people are playing too, and teamwork will always have advantage over solo guy. Also cuz ita mmo, content is designed for groups of people, or either join a guild or find few friends, cuz playing with not interacting with people will be impossible
Selo wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » well its an mmo, means other people are playing too, and teamwork will always have advantage over solo guy. Also cuz ita mmo, content is designed for groups of people, or either join a guild or find few friends, cuz playing with not interacting with people will be impossible Problem isnt 1v10 but rather your organized group of 20 vs 100 mindless zerg players. If you have been fighting an enemy for 45 minutes and are at 10% and some zerg guild just runs in and stomps you...yea that can get quite gamebreaking for most players. Im a PvPer myself but not all PvP content is good PvP content
Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do. I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right? I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that. Ofcourse it occured, so what? but it was punishable and it wasn't often and you had ways to deal with it. If you want safe space, where big bad griefer cant catch you, best option is to play games without pvp at all, like WOW or other bullshit carebear mmo, where only pvp is when two players mutually negotiate the terms and conditions of their duel, then one proposes and other accepts the invitation to throw down, after which they bid good day to each other and go on on their happy life fishing or weaving or knitting or whatever the f they do in hello kitty island adventure... What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing?
CaptnChuck wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do. I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right? I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that.
Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do. I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it
CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do.
Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't.
CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing.
Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others.
CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience.
Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds.
CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time.
Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC.
CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well.
jubilum wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do. I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right? I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that. Ofcourse it occured, so what? but it was punishable and it wasn't often and you had ways to deal with it. If you want safe space, where big bad griefer cant catch you, best option is to play games without pvp at all, like WOW or other bullshit carebear mmo, where only pvp is when two players mutually negotiate the terms and conditions of their duel, then one proposes and other accepts the invitation to throw down, after which they bid good day to each other and go on on their happy life fishing or weaving or knitting or whatever the f they do in hello kitty island adventure... What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing? You scary bro. If you do not consent it is not player vs player. It is player vs victim. Your attitude is exactly why open world/non consensual pvp always fails or becomes so toxic only the bad guys are left running around whacking each other for no reason.
jubilum wrote: » You scary bro. If you do not consent it is not player vs player. It is player vs victim. Your attitude is exactly why open world/non consensual pvp always fails or becomes so toxic only the bad guys are left running around whacking each other for no reason.
Xyls wrote: » jubilum wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do. I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right? I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that. Ofcourse it occured, so what? but it was punishable and it wasn't often and you had ways to deal with it. If you want safe space, where big bad griefer cant catch you, best option is to play games without pvp at all, like WOW or other bullshit carebear mmo, where only pvp is when two players mutually negotiate the terms and conditions of their duel, then one proposes and other accepts the invitation to throw down, after which they bid good day to each other and go on on their happy life fishing or weaving or knitting or whatever the f they do in hello kitty island adventure... What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing? You scary bro. If you do not consent it is not player vs player. It is player vs victim. Your attitude is exactly why open world/non consensual pvp always fails or becomes so toxic only the bad guys are left running around whacking each other for no reason. I can tell from your response you know very little about this game. 1. This is an open world game that will have open world pvp. If you create a character and log into the world, you are consenting to pvp. There are no victims. 2. Why do the carebears always think they know why open world pvp games fail? If they don't play them, how would they know... If they do, then they are consensual participants in said pvp and it must not be as bad as they think it is. 3. Why do the carebears always relate people participating in open world pvp as the "bad guys". There are plenty of reasons to engage in open world pvp with people that are for the betterment of the game and community. Don't like griefers? Make it your mission to kill them and help the little guys.
jubilum wrote: » Xyls wrote: » jubilum wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Mojottv wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Xyls wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » @Xyls So let me get this straight. You want players to rely on OTHER people to come and help them against the griefer? How exactly are they going to HELP you? That guy isn't killing you, he is just attacking you. Why would somebody else come and kill him for you, just to gain corruption? Your first 2 points does not solve the problem. None of them can help you, and even if they could, you shouldn't let counter measures for griefing rely on player help, as that is an inconsistent variable. As for your third one, yes you could fight back. But the problem is, that guy is 10 levels above you. So whilst you may damage him, it won't be by much. Also, now if he kills you, he won't gain corruption and he gains a portion of your loot as well. You also get re-spawned at a re-spawn point, which may be far away from where you were questing. So its going to take you a long time to get back there. He was griefing you and now he got rewarded for it because you fought back. So there goes your third point as well. Oh my bad, I didn't know you didn't know how the flagging system works. So when a player attacks a non-combatant (green) or combatant (purple), they become a combatant (purple). A player only becomes corrupted (red) when they kill a non-combatant (green). So when the lvl 20 attacks the lvl 10, the lvl 20 becomes purple. If someone comes along to help the lvl 10 kill the lvl 20, they will only become purple because the lvl 20 is purple, not green. They solve the problem in a MMO that requires players to socialize and work together... like AoC. But we don't know if the other guy gains corruption or not. If he does then why would he help you? The lvl20 guy didn't attack him he just attacked the lvl10 guy. Also you miss my point. Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it even if players are not online to help you at that time. Yes we do know. Attacking and killing a combatant does not give you corruption. Only killing a non-combatant does. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png I am not missing your point, your point just isn't valid in an mmorpg that heavily promotes community interaction and guilds. I'll say it again. You missed my point @Xyls . Relying on other people to solve Griefing isn't a good idea. There should be systems in place that solve it, even if players are not online/willing to help you at that time. Also, not everyone has friends and guilds when they start playing a game. So its foolish to rely on player help to solve things like griefing; especially when it can have a huge negative impact on a new player's experience. I don't know what to tell you, in these types of games (sandbox, sand-park) with player created content, relying on others is the ultimate solution and is the best solution. The corruption system is the back up for when you can't get others. Relying on other players for in game systems is the way to go. But relying on other players to solve things that can impact a player's fundamental experience with the game isn't the way to go. The reason why I say that is because it isn't as consistent or as efficient as a pre-built system that solves such kinds of problems. Players are an inconsistent variable. When it comes to important things like griefing, you cannot rely on such an inconsistent variable to solve the problem. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected to players. Its like asking players to punish those that get reported, instead of having them be punished by Intrepid themselves. Whilst your idea does provide a social element to the game, it shouldn't be the main way to solve griefing. You would be correct if this game was a straight theme-park like WoW, but it isn't. Jesus. Stop relating EVERYTHING with WoW. Griefing should be punished, whether its in AoC or if its in WoW. All I'm saying is that it should be CONSISTENTLY punished, something that "player help" cannot do. I dont agree that greefing should be punished in sense of some system that forbids griefing, it just should have cencequences, and lineage system did good job at that, it didnt limit people, but made made griefing very punishing without limiting them, so you could do it, but it was not worth it Lmao. Yea sure, no low level griefing ever occured in L2. The karma system was more than enough to prevent that right? I never said that griefing should be forbidden. All I said is that players who grief others should face severe in-game consequences. These consequences cannot be consistently imposed upon griefers by other players. Only a built in system can do that. Ofcourse it occured, so what? but it was punishable and it wasn't often and you had ways to deal with it. If you want safe space, where big bad griefer cant catch you, best option is to play games without pvp at all, like WOW or other bullshit carebear mmo, where only pvp is when two players mutually negotiate the terms and conditions of their duel, then one proposes and other accepts the invitation to throw down, after which they bid good day to each other and go on on their happy life fishing or weaving or knitting or whatever the f they do in hello kitty island adventure... What kind of system do you have in mind, that doesnt forbid or limit actions of player, while also punishing griefing? also what do you consider griefing? You scary bro. If you do not consent it is not player vs player. It is player vs victim. Your attitude is exactly why open world/non consensual pvp always fails or becomes so toxic only the bad guys are left running around whacking each other for no reason. I can tell from your response you know very little about this game. 1. This is an open world game that will have open world pvp. If you create a character and log into the world, you are consenting to pvp. There are no victims. 2. Why do the carebears always think they know why open world pvp games fail? If they don't play them, how would they know... If they do, then they are consensual participants in said pvp and it must not be as bad as they think it is. 3. Why do the carebears always relate people participating in open world pvp as the "bad guys". There are plenty of reasons to engage in open world pvp with people that are for the betterment of the game and community. Don't like griefers? Make it your mission to kill them and help the little guys. 1. So I can get murdered while walking down the street, by your thinking I consented to it when I left the house...hmmm, never want to met you in a dark ally. i see no difference with your scenario and mine. It may be a morals thing, not sure. 2. I have played plenty of open world pvp games and am currently playing Aion after a 4 year hiatus, when I quit their were at least 15 NA servers, their is now two. I wounder why? It is a full open world/non consensual pvp game. I also play Eve online, I have no aversion to pvp as long as all parties agree. You can ruin my play session by murdering me, but i have no way to ruin yours. Non consensual pvp is one sided enjoyment. 3. Their is no good reason to ruin another persons play time. "Oh no, somebody is picking my flowers I must murder him", really. If they mean that much to you if you, ask nicely I will go pick flowers some place else, and apologize for walking thru your garden, jeez just be civil, seems to be lacking now a days. I know your type you will not fight another person who is willing, you just want soft targets to harvest their tears, (that is a bad person).
jubilum wrote: » 2. I have played plenty of open world pvp games and am currently playing Aion after a 4 year hiatus, when I quit their were at least 15 NA servers, their is now two. I wounder why? It is a full open world/non consensual pvp game. I also play Eve online, I have no aversion to pvp as long as all parties agree. You can ruin my play session by murdering me, but i have no way to ruin yours. Non consensual pvp is one sided enjoyment. 3. Their is no good reason to ruin another persons play time. "Oh no, somebody is picking my flowers I must murder him", really. If they mean that much to you if you, ask nicely I will go pick flowers some place else, and apologize for walking thru your garden, jeez just be civil, seems to be lacking now a days. I know your type you will not fight another person who is willing, you just want soft targets to harvest their tears, (that is a bad person).
Bricktop wrote: » There are plenty of highly successful games that are open world PvP.
