Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
If you log in to a game with open world pvp knowing that it has said pvp, its consensual. Nobody is forcing you to play the game, you are choosing to participate by playing it. If you want the feature to opt out, go play a game with that option. This game is not that game and wont ever be.
I can tell from your response you know very little about this game.
1. This is an open world game that will have open world pvp. If you create a character and log into the world, you are consenting to pvp. There are no victims.
2. Why do the carebears always think they know why open world pvp games fail? If they don't play them, how would they know... If they do, then they are consensual participants in said pvp and it must not be as bad as they think it is.
3. Why do the carebears always relate people participating in open world pvp as the "bad guys". There are plenty of reasons to engage in open world pvp with people that are for the betterment of the game and community. Don't like griefers? Make it your mission to kill them and help the little guys.
If you're scared this easy, I would suggest playing Mario Kart instead.
Or is that too violent for your piteous little heart?
You are correct. "Few" MMORPGs have successfully pulled off openword PvP.
But, what you are failing to understand is; Intrepid is making a PvX MMORPG. If Intrepid had its way, everyone would be a Combatant (purple). But, they recognize there are people who don't want to be a Combatant (non pvpers). So, they came up with the "Corruption" system, with non-Combatants (green) and Corrupted (reds, murder is bad.). Kill all you want, just don't murder people.".
How is this system unfare? It's a great compromise, imo. Especially for a PvX concept game.
On top of the above. Intrepid is very forgiving with death. There, is no death penalty, unless "Corrupted". There is death debt. That means you don't loose anything, except gatherables and processed goods. You don't loose items, gear or even your house (ie, if destroyed, you get deed back and furniture.)You can recover everything by any means (eg. exp, gatherables). Only the "reds" (the bad guy griefers) have a chance to loose anything (gear and being farmed by BHs.).
Who's being punished here; The Carebear or the PKers? Sounds like Intrepid is listening to the former.
Like I tell everyone; get your head out of the box. AoC is working on some revolutionary mechanics for a MMORPG. Mechanics people have been crying for, decades, and some new (eg. nodes, Corruption, arch classes, tab/action, etc).
And so you know; I am a Carebear, but with fangs. 👹
Damn, I need a signature block. 😁
There are plenty of highly successful games that are open world PvP. "Consesnsual PvP" is legitimately the most carebear thing I have ever heard. Who sits there and gets farmed over and over, doesn't try and defend themselves at all, and then whines how they are the victim? We should cater to the PvErs and end up with a dead game like wildstar or new world you are right.
1. So I can get murdered while walking down the street, by your thinking I consented to it when I left the house...hmmm, never want to met you in a dark ally. i see no difference with your scenario and mine. It may be a morals thing, not sure.
2. I have played plenty of open world pvp games and am currently playing Aion after a 4 year hiatus, when I quit their were at least 15 NA servers, their is now two. I wounder why? It is a full open world/non consensual pvp game. I also play Eve online, I have no aversion to pvp as long as all parties agree. You can ruin my play session by murdering me, but i have no way to ruin yours. Non consensual pvp is one sided enjoyment.
3. Their is no good reason to ruin another persons play time. "Oh no, somebody is picking my flowers I must murder him", really. If they mean that much to you if you, ask nicely I will go pick flowers some place else, and apologize for walking thru your garden, jeez just be civil, seems to be lacking now a days. I know your type you will not fight another person who is willing, you just want soft targets to harvest their tears, (that is a bad person).
1. This is a video game get a grip on reality. Very large difference between a video game and real life murder how delusional are you?
2. Aion is 12 years old at this point and was never very good to begin with. EVE on the other hand is one of the longest running and most succesful MMORPGs with what you have termed "Non-consensual PvP" I'm sure you have whined about that game too and demanded it be changed while continuing to play for the last 18 years or whatever long it's been.
3. Whats not fun for thee is fun for me. You aren't the fun police determining how other people have fun. The world is not centered around you.
I consider myself a casual player, and hates getting murdered in game too, but then ...
2. Since you mentioned Eve. I'd argue that gankers, although annoying, has a role in Eve that their mere presence upholds Eve's "risk vs reward" theme, and also a role in keeping the economy in balance. Imagine if you must be flagged in order to be attacked in Eve. Without the risk of being ganked, everyone would just fly as blingy as they could, and the whole server would be doing supercarrier ratting all day long. And there'll be an uncontrollable runaway inflation.
Btw I hate the cloaky campers even more, but that's a different story.
3. To some people there IS fun in ruining others' experiences. The greater the pain inflicted, the more they enjoy it. Why do you think Eve displays the isk-value of each kill mail you receive?
I've come to accept the existence of gankers as a fact, and view them like some kind of natural disaster. As long as the game has mechanics to ...
- limit their killing spree to some degree, (in Ashes's case, corruption and kill count and negative exp etc.)
- allow me to take precautions, or evade them, (In Ashes's case, the world is huge, supposedly there's always somewhere else you can go - unlike some cases in Eve where you're confined to your corp's territory of a few systems)
- allow me to defend myself, (Not having separate PvP & PvE gear is a good start, which Ashes is going for)
... without me having to go to extreme lengths (e.g. stay logged out for hours), and that I don't suffer a debilitating death penalty upon getting ganked, then that's acceptable.
I've come to see mmorpg worlds as a savanna ecosystem - there's vegetation (contents), there're herbivores (pure PvEers), carnivores (PvPers and gankers), and some other players to fill in the various niches in the system. There needs to be a balance - the system must not be dominated by any one kind of player, or it will collapse and you end up with a deserted server. e.g. Remove all the carnivores, and you could end up with an explosion of herbivore population, which leads to overgrazing (overcrowding at farming spots, resource & mob spawn areas, ppl occupying resource nodes with automated scripts for hours & on and you have no way to chase them away coz you can't kill them, etc. etc. etc.), and that's a problem too.
Are you done dreaming yet @Bricktop ? There is not a single open world PvP game that is successful right now. All of them are dead, and for good reason.
You might wanna stop pulling facts out of your behind. I understand that that's where your replies come from, but don't pull out false facts from there as well
1. So you do not think that that character on screen is not a representation of you, it is after all controlled by your brain. I argue that being murdered in game elicits the same or similar emotional reactions from the victim as being a victim of an IRL crime. The reality is, whether you want to admit it or not that avatar is controled by a real person with the emotions, feelings, and psychology and react the same whether they are physically there or thousand of miles away sitting in front of a monitor. Your thinking is simply an attempt by you to justify your actions and disconnect form the reality of what you just did.
2. Aion had potential at one time, but I agree it does suck now. A perfect example of Devs screwing up a game. Eve has many problem, but the PvP is not one of them. PvP drives everything within Eve, there would not be a game without it, I just don't see that as the case in AoC there are just to many other factors driving the game. The main reasons Eve succeeds in what it is, that AoC can not duplicate is having one server forcing everyone into the same sandbox and also the vastness of the universe. My main character in Eve had it's 12 year birthday last week, I just looked at the universe map and in 12 years of playing almost daily I have visited less than 20% of the solar systems and that doesn't even include wormholes, and 80% of those systems I have visited I just pasted thru on my way someplace else. What I am saying is if you don't want to interact with other players in Eve it is possible to find someplace no one else goes. i personally found a dead end system in the first couple months I played that I keep a jump clone in and a few ship, I jump there when I want to get away from the null sec politics and hang out a few days and never see another person enter the system.
3. When you force me to unwillingly participate in your fun, then I do become the "fun police".
Just wow. Trying to compare dying in a video game to someone losing their life.... what a shitty thing to say for anyone who has lost someone in real life. If your character dying in a video game who will respawn seconds later, elicits the same emotional response as someone being murdered in real life, you have some serious mental problems.
i agree with most of what you are saying. I addressed most of what I disagree with in my above response to brick top. Eve does PvP the right way, AoC will not be able to accomplish what Eve has, mainly because of having multiple severs. People are going to "server shop" in AoC until they find the environment that suits their play style.
Really?
Considering this game came out in what in 2003, still plenty of people playing it. Not even considering private servers...and wow classic went after Lineage 2 classic was released, check YOUR facts.
1. No, I am not reacting to my character dying as if I or a loved one was dying. Its kind of like when I type "LOL". On the screen it is laughing out loud...but in reality I just make a little burst of air come out of my nose and move on.
2. EVE is one giant server yes, and AoC is going to be several very large servers. That being said, with several servers on large maps(maps that are 3 times larger than classic WoW azeroth) , your player base will be spread out relatively well with the exception of streamer servers and 1 or 2 of the "Main" servers that people may flock to for guilds and what not. There will almost be a guarantee that there will be some low pop servers depending on how many they release at launch, taking care of your worries of having to interact with people in a online social game. And with that being said, you never want empty zones in an MMO, the entire point of the games design is being social. It isn't a single player story, it is a multi-player story, and you can argue against that as much as you want but all you get at that point is current retail wow, where you just play a single player game around other players, not with them.
3. "When you force me to unwillingly participate in your fun, then I do become the fun police" Kind of hypocritical seeing as you are literally trying to make everyone change the way an entire game is designed and played just so you can enjoy yourself more? According to you there are plenty of successful "Consensual-pvp" games out there, so go play those and leave this game to the people who enjoy open world pvp, seeing as that is how the developers and creator want it to be and plan to make it that way regardless of what you have to say about it.
Nice troll anon. Take your hate speech back to the Chan sites.😆
1. Why do you think you can feel 'fun" or pleasure from murdering another person, but the subject of your fun
can't fell depression and despair from getting murdered. That just doesn't make much sense to me that you are the only one capable of emotion. After all you are admitting that the actual human controlling the Avatar on screen can feel an emotional reaction to what is happening. Does that seem fair to you?
2. I kind of agree with the first part of this. I believe servers in AoC will have lets say different flavors, falling into 3 categories, the murder house where content will progress slowly if it all and low pop, normal which is where IS vision will take hold with most PvP will be with a purpose these will be highly populated and represent the majority of servers, and lastly the rare server that is centered around PvE these server will probably progress thru the content faster with only the occasional murder occurring these server will be populated in the beginning and die a slow death. If IS continues with their current plan of non-consensual/open world pvp, at launch I will not have a main character, but will place characters in as many different servers as possible and will jump around for the first couple months to find the right fit. My concern of course, being intimately aware of the current planning within the ganker community to descend onto this game in mass, a compatible server may be difficult to find within the first few months of launch.
3. I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, every mmo has some form or another of pvp. I just want the game to be successful, that is why I backed it knowing full well of their plan and still believe it has a chance except for this one issue, which is the only issue for failure in my opinion.
This is the hill I'm am willing to die on and will continue to beat this dead horse until launch day, that is when I will make my decision to either be a victim or not play.
I'm talking in the present tense bud. Not about 15 years ago. L2 is dead. There is no open world PvP game that is successful right NOW. Good job missing the point yet again, as usual.
Instead of accusing people of missing the point, u should take a step back and look at urself.
My point is Lineage 2, even though released 2003, with severely outdated graphics, still has considerably large player base even NOW. And even NOW. And they released classic version first, then wow followed.
Well at least you aren't frothing at the mouth and calling everybody stupid. Why is your forum picture in jail?
There's definitely some truth to this, but Intrepid would presumably want to avoid needlessly alienating players who aren't familiar with this genre, and perhaps ease them into it.
This may come as something of a surprise to you, but I agree.
That said, I'd like you to expand on this comment EvE and L2 are the only games ever released that I would consider highly successful with open world PvP. While that in itself is not exactly plenty, there are also points of interest in both games if you dig deeper.
In EvE, you are fairly safe for the most part. While you are technically in a position where someone can attack you almost all the time, the reality is that 90% of your time online you are mostly safe. People can and do play EvE in a way where they do not get attacked for months on end, with the only PvP they participate in being large planned fleet operations. EvE was my main MMO in 2012, and I was only ever involved in PvP on three occasions.
L2 has a different point of interest. The infestation with bots that game has seen is a direct result of the developers not offering players on the losing end of PvP a way out of that downward spiral. If the develoeprs of the game had put the same effort in to banning players using bots as other games have, it is doubtful the game would even be live still - even with it's pay to win cash shop.
Sure, there are games like Archeage (failed) and Albion (failing), but I can't think of any other open world PvP games I would consider highly successful.
So, my first question is - what other highly successful open world PvP games are there that make up that plenty you talk about?
A second question is - if there are no other such games, of these two above, what would you prefer to see in Ashes - a total reliance on botting as the only means to catch up to others, or a PvP game where PvP is essnetially a sidelined activity?
Again, you make a lot of good points. Surprised to see knowledgeable people on the forums lol. Most people I've seen on forums, like that of WoW, are definitely not what I would call "sensible".
Also, a lot of other people on this thread seem to be very aggressive for no reason. Its just a discussion. You're supposed to be discussing other's opinions, not completely refuting them. I guess they're just taking out their real life frustrations on the forums.
People play different games and get different things out of them - I assume this isn't news to you. If you go to a new game and expect to get exactly the same out of it as you got from a previous game, you will always be disappointed. This is essentially why I was disapointed with Rift - I expected it to be a new EQ2 for me. It wasn't.
I went from Rift to EvE, knowing that there was no way I could expect to get that same type of game play, and enjoyed the game thoroughly.
That said, the corperation I was in while playing EvE spent the year essentially preparing. We were not avoiding PvP, we were getting ready for PvP.
The big difference with EvE and Ashes in this regard is that when you are in an area you control, you can essentially relax in EvE. In Ashes, you will always have to be on the lookout. While not everyone will attack you on sight, everyone could and you need to be ready.
If nothing else, that kind of thing is tiring.
Guess you're afraid to go outside as well, as its tiring, because anyone can choose to attack you?
The novelty wears off. Its cool at first, but eventually it will just become tiring.
Comparing things in game with things in real life doesn't work. You need to get better at analogies.
Except it doesnt, its not like you play with constant fear of being attacked or something, you just play and whatever happends, happends. If you never played anything similar it might be hard to understand, but trust me, once you try its really good feeling of being able to play how you want, without having 100s of restrictions. If a guy is a dick, you can kill him, its nice...