I am all for the options. Fine with feminine aesthetics, masculine, or unisex stuff. All I ask is that they go absolutely minimal on the silly/cutsie stuff.
Given how hideous this months cosmetic armor is I feel like this is a perfect time to come back to this discussion. For anyone who hasn't seen this month's armor set yet, here it is -
TBH thats all so unnecessary.
Its a High-Fantasy Game. Let the People live to that Fantasy and give them Neutral, Feminine and Masculine Armor ... there are enough Sets to give the Player all of that.
So why discuss about it?
I mean there are comments about realism and stuff like ''Oh i cant image running in those Heels'' Tf. its a Fantasy Game. You throw Fireballs and Teleport around. Shoot Laserbeams as a Mage and you cant image Armor looking in a specific way ? AND Give us Sets that are completley Neutral.
Everyone is Happy.
Just because its high fantasy doesnt mean it has to be stupid. I dont care if you are a magic user, if youve got 6 inch heels on and running, jumping, fighting et cetera that is just rediculous. Balance is still a thing in magical worlds.
Just because a world is magical doesnt mean we have to throw all realism out the window.
It's all good..... People believe they achieve something by voicing objection to attractive looks for female chars (demanded by real female players).
Meanwhile real female rights have been declared illegal in some part of the world
Staff literally said to discuss and voice your opinion. Why get upset when people do just that?
I am upset that people belittle voices asking for attractive and distinct female outfits, not male copy paste. Valid feedback. Once again the monthly design it's just a copy paste. Nothing to do with realistic. Nothing to do with the whole "no to bikini armor".
Dont try to twist my words.
Staff literally said to discuss and voice your opinion. Why get upset when people do just that?
I am upset that people belittle voices asking for attractive and distinct female outfits, male copy paste. Valid feedback. Once again the monthly design it's just a copy paste. Nothing to do with realistic. Nothing to do with the whole "no to bikini armor".
Dont try to twist my words.
I didn't twist your words... what are you even talking about at this point? It's a discussion people have back and forths and will express different opinions. Period.
Given how hideous this months cosmetic armor is I feel like this is a perfect time to come back to this discussion. For anyone who hasn't seen this month's armor set yet, here it is -
Certainly doesn't look like a costume that will make generous sales numbers based solely on the female counterpart costume but, i can't deny the "Unisex" trend we are seeing in recent monthly costumes that when you give it a first glance you are barely able to discern male from female other than paying attention to height and minimum chest curvature.
Staff literally said to discuss and voice your opinion. Why get upset when people do just that?
I am upset that people belittle voices asking for attractive and distinct female outfits, male copy paste. Valid feedback. Once again the monthly design it's just a copy paste. Nothing to do with realistic. Nothing to do with the whole "no to bikini armor".
Dont try to twist my words.
I didn't twist your words... what are you even talking about at this point? It's a discussion people have back and forths and will express different opinions. Period.
I could do without your last 2 posts and nothing would change. You added nothing. You stated the obvious, and managed to contradict yourself.
Staff literally said to discuss and voice your opinion. Why get upset when people do just that?
I am upset that people belittle voices asking for attractive and distinct female outfits, male copy paste. Valid feedback. Once again the monthly design it's just a copy paste. Nothing to do with realistic. Nothing to do with the whole "no to bikini armor".
Dont try to twist my words.
I didn't twist your words... what are you even talking about at this point? It's a discussion people have back and forths and will express different opinions. Period.
I could do without your last 2 posts and nothing would change. You added nothing. You stated the obvious, and managed to contradict yourself.
I'm not here to appease you. I've been consistant with my statements however you've added absolutely zero to this discussion and just devolved into complaining about others opinions.
So, please continue to complain and add nothing of value, I'm done with this "conversation".
Can we all at least agree that Stuffertons was a mistake and we should all KoS anyone riding one?
Yes, Stuffertons Riders deserves nothing but death.
Aren't we all sinners?
2
Options
ElderMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think we should keep in mind the monthly cosmetics are supposedly being used to populate the world. Maybe once this is no longer the case we might be able too see more "variety".
Which is the greater folly, summoning the demon or expecting gratitude from it?
Staff literally said to discuss and voice your opinion. Why get upset when people do just that?
I am upset that people belittle voices asking for attractive and distinct female outfits, male copy paste. Valid feedback. Once again the monthly design it's just a copy paste. Nothing to do with realistic. Nothing to do with the whole "no to bikini armor".
Dont try to twist my words.
I didn't twist your words... what are you even talking about at this point? It's a discussion people have back and forths and will express different opinions. Period.
I could do without your last 2 posts and nothing would change. You added nothing. You stated the obvious, and managed to contradict yourself.
I'm not here to appease you. I've been consistant with my statements however you've added absolutely zero to this discussion and just devolved into complaining about others opinions.
So, please continue to complain and add nothing of value, I'm done with this "conversation".
Hey.. it's my opinion that people have valid complaints. You had a go at me. Didnt you say people are free to express their opinion?
Are you still confused as to why Im upset, or was you first post just that? A failed go at me?
As a Female MMO gamer I would like to suggest giving more effeminate options in armor styles. My concern is that I would like to have the option for dressing effeminately. The reason I am suggesting to make it optional is so people can dress as feminine or masculine or neutral as the player choses. This aids players self expression. Different armor styles as well as jewelry and makeup would be very helpful in this goal. I understand that you would like to keep things on the more practical side but this could be stifling to the communities creativity. Self expression and fashion is very important to me as a player I would like as many options as possible in creating my character.
It would be great to be able to express yourself. In all the mmo games I've played the hard work with character customization is left behind when wearing generic armor, it's not enough to have a bust, a female expression rig would be really fun because women have different behavior than men and that makes them feminine features, their delicate movements, their grace and sweetness can all be applied using motion capture, Steven take a minute to analyze the feedback.
The design itself isn't to my taste, but I applaud them for making it similar for the male and female. Excellent choice.
Curious as to why the applause? the shades and the "excellent"?
Oh because I want more armor sets that are close to unisex. That's my preference and thus I applaud Intrepid every time they provide that. I am not a fan of the color scheme on this particular set unfortunately (the blue part) and I am not sure if I'll be able to dye it away. Otherwise it'd be an insta-buy.
Just because its high fantasy doesnt mean it has to be stupid. I dont care if you are a magic user, if youve got 6 inch heels on and running, jumping, fighting et cetera that is just rediculous. Balance is still a thing in magical worlds.
Just because a world is magical doesnt mean we have to throw all realism out the window.
Ok, so in the korean art example from @Kreed , those are not 6 inch heels, just to be clear but obviously you're going to say any heel wear is ridiculous but I'm going to counter with...
(and before I begin, ofc the stature of dwarves is different, I'm not talking about that but I would be very interested to hear your thoughts speaking to a r/l dwarf woman who likes that sort of thing!)
The swift and accurate flexibility of women + fantasy armor tech.
Now obviously it hasn't been done at all in korean games to provide a purpose for heel wear, we all know why it's there and its more about accentuating a woman more than it is sexual, it's artistic and is widely accepted so why not.
To completely brush off heel wear entirely in fantasy as stupid tho is a bias.
There is easily a fantasy ground for making footwear tech, where normally you are flat footed for running, doing most actions and whatever else, but then on a spy/assassin level themed activation a heel can come out (with a lethal tip or mostly bladed), this provides a fantasy woman character, who's in top peek physical condition, 2 benefits:
- Combat aid, in tight spots, whether that be a duel or impaired, flexlibilty and martial arts come into play and a well placed kick, which is much more comfortable to get accurate as a woman, can be lethal with that heel tip hitting something.
- Stature / Intimidation , I shouldn't have to explain this too much at all, in a nut shell, in any dialogue, peaceful and walking circumstances there can be a lot more highlight and it's only a buff to women, it's not stupid at all in these settings for a woman to feel stupid while doing so.
I am all for the options. Fine with feminine aesthetics, masculine, or unisex stuff. All I ask is that they go absolutely minimal on the silly/cutsie stuff.
I am all for the options. Fine with feminine aesthetics, masculine, or unisex stuff. All I ask is that they go absolutely minimal on the silly/cutsie stuff.
Stuffertons says hello
Stuffertons riders will be terminated promptly. Corruption is worth it lmao
It's certainly interesting seeing this thread, and others like it come up recently. I think we still have yet to see a large majority of the different gear appearances in the game (whether in-game achievable or cosmetic).
With that said, I think there may be gear sets in the future that please some who are concerned about this! Steven has said he doesn't like the idea of 'bikini armor' but hasn't ruled out form-fitting gear appearances, or more revealing ones ^_^
If you have thoughts on this and you're just happening to see this thread, please feel free to drop your thoughts in a comment!
There's definitely a huge middle ground between Bikini armor and Brienne of Tarth. You can have fashionable armor that covers most or all of a character. I would suggest taking a look at Aion's Chain armor sets for Cleric/Chanter over the years. They've been incredibly creative in making armor that looks like armor but still looks attractive.
Some quick pics I found while searching (note: These look better in game but I can't find real screenshots right now!):
The thighs are a bit ugly on this second one but the rest of the set is nice.
Adding to this with some screenshots I have. Sadly I don't have a lot of Aion screenshots since this is not the same computer I played on 10 years ago, but I have 2 screenshots from Aion Classic. And a few cloth armor looks from FFXIV. Although I am concerned perhaps more about how heavy armor will look in Ashes because too often it looks awful, so the above pictures hopefully will serve as good examples of that at least.
Here's two outfits that are more on the sexier side but I think still acceptable for those who want it:
Me wearing one of those chain armor outfits above -
A tank wearing a plate set on the right -
Some FFXIV armor -
I don't have one good screenshot of this one so here's a few angles to get the idea -
I really don't want to just jump to conclusions, but it definitely moreso looks like you just don't like full plate.
You 'want full plate to be sexier on female forms', and some others (maybe including Intrepid) want it to be more functional.
This is a meaningful discussion to be had, I think, but for those who are unfamiliar with FFXIV, those cloth armors (and in fact nearly all of them) are generally exactly the same or almost exactly the same for male characters.
I'll be right here with you 'requesting that the spectrum of supposedly unisex gear also not be genderlocked'. Similarly if you want to request 'form fitting plate' for both genders along with 'heavy plate' for both genders. My personal point from before was that I don't care at all about 'sexualization' of the gear, I care about 'gender locking' and the lack of options, same as you, I think.
If you don't like heavy plate armor, so be it, but I know a lot of people who really do, and I will fuss if anything implies it will be reduced or taken away.
Intrepid seems to be in the same camp, which is why I think the only thing you can do is ask for 'more form fitting or revealing armor' as a whole, and therefore avoid all the knee-jerk reactions from anyone who thinks 'you want sexualized females specifically'.
All of those sets you linked only look good one one of the two sexes.
This part right here, this precise part is the part where you have to understand that this is entirely your opinion in every way and that giving you what you want is not as good (in total) as doing what FFXIV does.
And this is the ONLY reason I hope Intrepid ignores your opinion, not even your desire. I hope they make lots of gear. I hope they make it fit both approx the same, and I hope they make something that you like on your female character.
But I absolutely do not hope that 'the equivalent of the Female Bale Set in FFXIV' looks different because you happen to not like full plate armor.
EDIT: Out of curiosity actually, which of the two Hattori ones is 'correct' to you?
All of those sets you linked only look good one one of the two sexes.
This part right here, this precise part is the part where you have to understand that this is entirely your opinion in every way and that giving you what you want is not as good (in total) as doing what FFXIV does.
And this is the ONLY reason I hope Intrepid ignores your opinion, not even your desire. I hope they make lots of gear. I hope they make it fit both approx the same, and I hope they make something that you like on your female character.
But I absolutely do not hope that 'the equivalent of the Female Bale Set in FFXIV' looks different because you happen to not like full plate armor.
EDIT: Out of curiosity actually, which of the two Hattori ones is 'correct' to you?
I don't want unisex armor. Armor should be fit and designed differently for male vs female. I do want choices and a variety in armor and that's the entire point of this thread. I do however, expect armor to be designed appropriately for the characters they're supposed to be made for.
For your Hattori one it doesn't look great on either one of them. The colors and style are more masculine to me so I don't like it on the female, but the male's outfit doesn't quite look right, either. If he had shoulderpads it might make more sense to me and be a decent leather-styled set. But as it is now it feels unbalanced.
All of those sets you linked only look good one one of the two sexes.
This part right here, this precise part is the part where you have to understand that this is entirely your opinion in every way and that giving you what you want is not as good (in total) as doing what FFXIV does.
And this is the ONLY reason I hope Intrepid ignores your opinion, not even your desire. I hope they make lots of gear. I hope they make it fit both approx the same, and I hope they make something that you like on your female character.
But I absolutely do not hope that 'the equivalent of the Female Bale Set in FFXIV' looks different because you happen to not like full plate armor.
EDIT: Out of curiosity actually, which of the two Hattori ones is 'correct' to you?
I don't want unisex armor. Armor should be fit and designed differently for male vs female. I do want choices and a variety in armor and that's the entire point of this thread. I do however, expect armor to be designed appropriately for the characters they're supposed to be made for.
For your Hattori one it doesn't look great on either one of them. The colors and style are more masculine to me so I don't like it on the female, but the male's outfit doesn't quite look right, either. If he had shoulderpads it might make more sense to me and be a decent leather-styled set.
Well, I believe it really comes down to that, doesn't it?
You don't like what you consider unisex armor. For me (and again maybe Intrepid), that isn't even the way to think about it. Armor is armor. You look good in what you think you look good in. I hope you get some glamor sets once they are past the main crop of cosmetics.
As for your current problem, remember that cosmetics we buy right now are actually 'designs for NPCs' and if Intrepid's design scope is similar to FF games where the NPCs don't have 'sexed' armor, then we probably won't see any 'explicitly' different ones for a while. And then we'd have to define what that is.
I don't expect them to change much given this, but I hope you get something cool to wear from later cosmetics.
All of those sets you linked only look good one one of the two sexes.
This part right here, this precise part is the part where you have to understand that this is entirely your opinion in every way and that giving you what you want is not as good (in total) as doing what FFXIV does.
And this is the ONLY reason I hope Intrepid ignores your opinion, not even your desire. I hope they make lots of gear. I hope they make it fit both approx the same, and I hope they make something that you like on your female character.
But I absolutely do not hope that 'the equivalent of the Female Bale Set in FFXIV' looks different because you happen to not like full plate armor.
EDIT: Out of curiosity actually, which of the two Hattori ones is 'correct' to you?
I don't want unisex armor.
I mean, sorry... but the monthly cosmetics already show a lot of unisex armor sets.
Comments
I like that armor set.
Just because its high fantasy doesnt mean it has to be stupid. I dont care if you are a magic user, if youve got 6 inch heels on and running, jumping, fighting et cetera that is just rediculous. Balance is still a thing in magical worlds.
Just because a world is magical doesnt mean we have to throw all realism out the window.
Meanwhile real female rights have been declared illegal in some part of the world
Pretentious counter arguments.
I am upset that people belittle voices asking for attractive and distinct female outfits, not male copy paste. Valid feedback. Once again the monthly design it's just a copy paste. Nothing to do with realistic. Nothing to do with the whole "no to bikini armor".
Dont try to twist my words.
I didn't twist your words... what are you even talking about at this point? It's a discussion people have back and forths and will express different opinions. Period.
Certainly doesn't look like a costume that will make generous sales numbers based solely on the female counterpart costume but, i can't deny the "Unisex" trend we are seeing in recent monthly costumes that when you give it a first glance you are barely able to discern male from female other than paying attention to height and minimum chest curvature.
Aren't we all sinners?
I could do without your last 2 posts and nothing would change. You added nothing. You stated the obvious, and managed to contradict yourself.
I'm not here to appease you. I've been consistant with my statements however you've added absolutely zero to this discussion and just devolved into complaining about others opinions.
So, please continue to complain and add nothing of value, I'm done with this "conversation".
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Yes, Stuffertons Riders deserves nothing but death.
Aren't we all sinners?
Hey.. it's my opinion that people have valid complaints. You had a go at me. Didnt you say people are free to express their opinion?
Are you still confused as to why Im upset, or was you first post just that? A failed go at me?
It would be great to be able to express yourself. In all the mmo games I've played the hard work with character customization is left behind when wearing generic armor, it's not enough to have a bust, a female expression rig would be really fun because women have different behavior than men and that makes them feminine features, their delicate movements, their grace and sweetness can all be applied using motion capture, Steven take a minute to analyze the feedback.
Oh because I want more armor sets that are close to unisex. That's my preference and thus I applaud Intrepid every time they provide that. I am not a fan of the color scheme on this particular set unfortunately (the blue part) and I am not sure if I'll be able to dye it away. Otherwise it'd be an insta-buy.
Ok, so in the korean art example from @Kreed , those are not 6 inch heels, just to be clear but obviously you're going to say any heel wear is ridiculous but I'm going to counter with...
(and before I begin, ofc the stature of dwarves is different, I'm not talking about that but I would be very interested to hear your thoughts speaking to a r/l dwarf woman who likes that sort of thing!)
The swift and accurate flexibility of women + fantasy armor tech.
Now obviously it hasn't been done at all in korean games to provide a purpose for heel wear, we all know why it's there and its more about accentuating a woman more than it is sexual, it's artistic and is widely accepted so why not.
To completely brush off heel wear entirely in fantasy as stupid tho is a bias.
There is easily a fantasy ground for making footwear tech, where normally you are flat footed for running, doing most actions and whatever else, but then on a spy/assassin level themed activation a heel can come out (with a lethal tip or mostly bladed), this provides a fantasy woman character, who's in top peek physical condition, 2 benefits:
- Combat aid, in tight spots, whether that be a duel or impaired, flexlibilty and martial arts come into play and a well placed kick, which is much more comfortable to get accurate as a woman, can be lethal with that heel tip hitting something.
- Stature / Intimidation , I shouldn't have to explain this too much at all, in a nut shell, in any dialogue, peaceful and walking circumstances there can be a lot more highlight and it's only a buff to women, it's not stupid at all in these settings for a woman to feel stupid while doing so.
I will be interested to hear your bias expanded.
Stuffertons says hello
Stuffertons riders will be terminated promptly. Corruption is worth it lmao
Adding to this with some screenshots I have. Sadly I don't have a lot of Aion screenshots since this is not the same computer I played on 10 years ago, but I have 2 screenshots from Aion Classic. And a few cloth armor looks from FFXIV. Although I am concerned perhaps more about how heavy armor will look in Ashes because too often it looks awful, so the above pictures hopefully will serve as good examples of that at least.
Here's two outfits that are more on the sexier side but I think still acceptable for those who want it:
Me wearing one of those chain armor outfits above -
A tank wearing a plate set on the right -
Some FFXIV armor -
I don't have one good screenshot of this one so here's a few angles to get the idea -
You 'want full plate to be sexier on female forms', and some others (maybe including Intrepid) want it to be more functional.
This is a meaningful discussion to be had, I think, but for those who are unfamiliar with FFXIV, those cloth armors (and in fact nearly all of them) are generally exactly the same or almost exactly the same for male characters.
https://ffxiv.eorzeacollection.com/gearset/ebers
https://ffxiv.eorzeacollection.com/gearset/pteroslaver
https://ffxiv.eorzeacollection.com/gearset/bale
https://ffxiv.eorzeacollection.com/gearset/hattori
I'll be right here with you 'requesting that the spectrum of supposedly unisex gear also not be genderlocked'. Similarly if you want to request 'form fitting plate' for both genders along with 'heavy plate' for both genders. My personal point from before was that I don't care at all about 'sexualization' of the gear, I care about 'gender locking' and the lack of options, same as you, I think.
If you don't like heavy plate armor, so be it, but I know a lot of people who really do, and I will fuss if anything implies it will be reduced or taken away.
Intrepid seems to be in the same camp, which is why I think the only thing you can do is ask for 'more form fitting or revealing armor' as a whole, and therefore avoid all the knee-jerk reactions from anyone who thinks 'you want sexualized females specifically'.
This part right here, this precise part is the part where you have to understand that this is entirely your opinion in every way and that giving you what you want is not as good (in total) as doing what FFXIV does.
And this is the ONLY reason I hope Intrepid ignores your opinion, not even your desire. I hope they make lots of gear. I hope they make it fit both approx the same, and I hope they make something that you like on your female character.
But I absolutely do not hope that 'the equivalent of the Female Bale Set in FFXIV' looks different because you happen to not like full plate armor.
EDIT: Out of curiosity actually, which of the two Hattori ones is 'correct' to you?
I don't want unisex armor. Armor should be fit and designed differently for male vs female. I do want choices and a variety in armor and that's the entire point of this thread. I do however, expect armor to be designed appropriately for the characters they're supposed to be made for.
For your Hattori one it doesn't look great on either one of them. The colors and style are more masculine to me so I don't like it on the female, but the male's outfit doesn't quite look right, either. If he had shoulderpads it might make more sense to me and be a decent leather-styled set. But as it is now it feels unbalanced.
Edit:
Here's that one armor set on male vs female -
Well, I believe it really comes down to that, doesn't it?
You don't like what you consider unisex armor. For me (and again maybe Intrepid), that isn't even the way to think about it. Armor is armor. You look good in what you think you look good in. I hope you get some glamor sets once they are past the main crop of cosmetics.
As for your current problem, remember that cosmetics we buy right now are actually 'designs for NPCs' and if Intrepid's design scope is similar to FF games where the NPCs don't have 'sexed' armor, then we probably won't see any 'explicitly' different ones for a while. And then we'd have to define what that is.
I don't expect them to change much given this, but I hope you get something cool to wear from later cosmetics.
I mean, sorry... but the monthly cosmetics already show a lot of unisex armor sets.