Mag7spy wrote: » You can see a lot of times when i post a video reference it has been to EQ2. I played shadowbane over L2.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You can see a lot of times when i post a video reference it has been to EQ2. I played shadowbane over L2. Yeah, and I didn't play shadowbane so I dunno how it was. But I played ~30h of wow classic tbc. And you know what I hated literally the second I started playing? THE FUCKING GCD I came from over 10 years of a tab game and the first thing I hated in another tab game (that allegedly has amazing and fluid combat, according to a ton of people on the internet) was the god damn gcd. Your generalization of all tab games only puts you into a bad spot in these arguments.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You realize there are other mmorpgs beside those ones? I've mentioned multiple times I've played a lot of mmorpgs and have "thousands" of hours on tab target mmorpgs. "I have played bad tab target MMOs and I don't want Ashes to be like that." "That's great, I have played good tab target MMOs and I don't want Ashes to be like the bad ones either." Have you tried 'assuming that the people who like Tab Target ones have played the good ones'? Not saying it's definitely true, but it might help to have productive discussion if you start there instead.
Mag7spy wrote: » You realize there are other mmorpgs beside those ones? I've mentioned multiple times I've played a lot of mmorpgs and have "thousands" of hours on tab target mmorpgs.
Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You can see a lot of times when i post a video reference it has been to EQ2. I played shadowbane over L2. Yeah, and I didn't play shadowbane so I dunno how it was. But I played ~30h of wow classic tbc. And you know what I hated literally the second I started playing? THE FUCKING GCD I came from over 10 years of a tab game and the first thing I hated in another tab game (that allegedly has amazing and fluid combat, according to a ton of people on the internet) was the god damn gcd. Your generalization of all tab games only puts you into a bad spot in these arguments. How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs.
Mag7spy wrote: » How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs.
Mag7spy wrote: » The three piece combo did not look like the same move over and over did you watch the video? Dark froward attack, circular attack and into a heavy jump slam attack. All with their own mix of motions.... Lets try another video lvl 30 and his moves don't feel different they feel all kind of the same. Movement helps a lot in making more of a impact on the feeling of your skills and flow of combat and not something that is normal to tab target. If i hear someone say something i feel is wrong like action can't do larger scale tab ya ill reply that is just how I am. You are missing the point though, they see the thread is up here and plenty of people could easily say if they dont like he direction and want it to be more tab focused and could voice their thoughts here as well. But its the same 5-10 people that prefer action, tab or both with a argument.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs. I dunno cause I haven't played those. But that's not even my main point here. My experience was unique in some way, just as yours or Noaani's or Azherae's. And I respect any of those experiences enough to trust those people when/if they say "to me this part of the game felt fluid". I mainly rely on their words exactly because I haven't played those games extensively myself. But they have. You seem to have not played those games either, yet you base your whole argument on completely different games you've played. This doesn't only show a very narrow-minded outlook on things, but, imo, shows disrespect to other people's experiences. By you saying "all tab games are literally same shit and are never fluid, you're literally telling Noaani that his years of playing the game were worthless and he should've been playing smth else". Obviously I'm sure that Noaani doesn't think that because, to me it seems, he has enough self-respect and confidence to not get hurt by someone else's opinion, but the underlying attitude of the discussion remains the same. You bring other people's experiences down just because you think that your opinion is the only valid one.
Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs. I dunno cause I haven't played those. But that's not even my main point here. My experience was unique in some way, just as yours or Noaani's or Azherae's. And I respect any of those experiences enough to trust those people when/if they say "to me this part of the game felt fluid". I mainly rely on their words exactly because I haven't played those games extensively myself. But they have. You seem to have not played those games either, yet you base your whole argument on completely different games you've played. This doesn't only show a very narrow-minded outlook on things, but, imo, shows disrespect to other people's experiences. By you saying "all tab games are literally same shit and are never fluid, you're literally telling Noaani that his years of playing the game were worthless and he should've been playing smth else". Obviously I'm sure that Noaani doesn't think that because, to me it seems, he has enough self-respect and confidence to not get hurt by someone else's opinion, but the underlying attitude of the discussion remains the same. You bring other people's experiences down just because you think that your opinion is the only valid one. Now you are skewing my words by saying I'm saying his time was worthless in a aspect that doesn't make sense as why would you be playing something else during that time of the game. Time frames and context matters. Its not narrowminded as you can clearly see in the video on EQ that it is stagged gameplay with high gcd. Saying your combat is fluid for the sake of saying it doesn't hold weight, i don't take bias into account i take facts on what is shown and explained. The same way i explained my reasoning for fluid combat with BDO. Global cooldowns are pretty much turn based combat, and turn based combat is not fluid. Enjoying the combat and likely it, have nothing to do if a combat is fluid or not. I can like swtor combat and say i enjoy the movement with it but being fluid is a different meaning all together. Remember im talking about everquest not L2 so you can't compare your game without global cooldowns that would be a different topic on that games being fluid. As far as disrespect goes I think that is a silly concept to compare to my comment. He simply said EQ2 was fluid, I disagreed and shared my fact on my thoughts on what makes fluid combat and pointed out reasons why I don't find EQ2 as fluid or a good example among tab target games. I'm not going to bs around I'll get to the point and provide examples, show videos, explain my points and i also installed and jumped on the game to ensure what I was saying was holding up with camera facing and attacking. Yet you are going to say I'm disrespectful and not even slightly giving the benefit of doubt without actually putting effort in? Now to me this is the first time you actually have been disrespectful. Not to mention i feel liek i have the impression you think i havn't played tab target mmorpgs for more then a shall amount of time like im not speaking from experience. I've played mmorpgs since i was a child i know plenty about them... And i know plenty about modern ones from their bad aspects as I'm very critical of them and their good aspects.
Azherae wrote: » Two reasons: 1. Most MMOs are bad. 2. If they had a particularly good MMO to play, since most good MMOs don't die, and don't get stale all that fast, they would have focused their time on that one and not had time to play too many others to the point where they would know if they were good or not. So, if you've played a lot of MMOs, I should just assume you played a lot of crappy knock-offs that came up in that era.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Two reasons: 1. Most MMOs are bad. 2. If they had a particularly good MMO to play, since most good MMOs don't die, and don't get stale all that fast, they would have focused their time on that one and not had time to play too many others to the point where they would know if they were good or not. So, if you've played a lot of MMOs, I should just assume you played a lot of crappy knock-offs that came up in that era. The biggest argument against this that I can see is literally being as old as Dygz and just having enough time in your life to have played several great mmos for 5++ years each. Though even then, we've only got, what, around 25-30 years of "mmos"? So it's not like you could play too many of them. But yeah, even when I was starting out with L2, I tried perfect world, I tried just a bit on aion, a bit of MU online, some BDO later on, some B&S and was thinking of trying AA too - but through all those tryouts L2 was still better for my preferred gameplay. And having tried WoW way later in my gaming career, I'm glad that I didn't waste money on it back when it was limited cause that would've been a huge waste of $15.
iccer wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » The three piece combo did not look like the same move over and over did you watch the video? Dark froward attack, circular attack and into a heavy jump slam attack. All with their own mix of motions.... Lets try another video lvl 30 and his moves don't feel different they feel all kind of the same. Movement helps a lot in making more of a impact on the feeling of your skills and flow of combat and not something that is normal to tab target. If i hear someone say something i feel is wrong like action can't do larger scale tab ya ill reply that is just how I am. You are missing the point though, they see the thread is up here and plenty of people could easily say if they dont like he direction and want it to be more tab focused and could voice their thoughts here as well. But its the same 5-10 people that prefer action, tab or both with a argument. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Rift has amazing combat, but showing low lvl gameplay isn't helping it either. And again, it's a game that's been released over 10 years ago. Though Rift has an amazing class system that's simply superior to most games, especially BDO. Rift and many tab-targeting games of that era look dated and overly simplistic in terms of combat, but on the other side you have BDO where there's simply way too much going on on the screen, way too flashy, dashy and slashy. Again, a nice balance between the 2 is the best.https://youtu.be/EIC6jIvj4yohttps://youtu.be/g9dvc8XjvsM?t=68 In both games I've had better experience than in BDO. GW2 is kinda in that upper limit when it comes to how "action-combaty" I want the game to be. That isn't to say those games have no issues, GW2 especially lacks weight and feedback on abilities, and it can often feel floaty. Then it has problems with "stacking" and perma boon uptimes which just ruin the endgame raiding for me. But combat in itself is a great mix of both, and it's something similar that Ashes is probably going for.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs. I dunno cause I haven't played those. But that's not even my main point here. My experience was unique in some way, just as yours or Noaani's or Azherae's. And I respect any of those experiences enough to trust those people when/if they say "to me this part of the game felt fluid". I mainly rely on their words exactly because I haven't played those games extensively myself. But they have. You seem to have not played those games either, yet you base your whole argument on completely different games you've played. This doesn't only show a very narrow-minded outlook on things, but, imo, shows disrespect to other people's experiences. By you saying "all tab games are literally same shit and are never fluid, you're literally telling Noaani that his years of playing the game were worthless and he should've been playing smth else". Obviously I'm sure that Noaani doesn't think that because, to me it seems, he has enough self-respect and confidence to not get hurt by someone else's opinion, but the underlying attitude of the discussion remains the same. You bring other people's experiences down just because you think that your opinion is the only valid one. Now you are skewing my words by saying I'm saying his time was worthless in a aspect that doesn't make sense as why would you be playing something else during that time of the game. Time frames and context matters. Its not narrowminded as you can clearly see in the video on EQ that it is stagged gameplay with high gcd. Saying your combat is fluid for the sake of saying it doesn't hold weight, i don't take bias into account i take facts on what is shown and explained. The same way i explained my reasoning for fluid combat with BDO. Global cooldowns are pretty much turn based combat, and turn based combat is not fluid. Enjoying the combat and likely it, have nothing to do if a combat is fluid or not. I can like swtor combat and say i enjoy the movement with it but being fluid is a different meaning all together. Remember im talking about everquest not L2 so you can't compare your game without global cooldowns that would be a different topic on that games being fluid. As far as disrespect goes I think that is a silly concept to compare to my comment. He simply said EQ2 was fluid, I disagreed and shared my fact on my thoughts on what makes fluid combat and pointed out reasons why I don't find EQ2 as fluid or a good example among tab target games. I'm not going to bs around I'll get to the point and provide examples, show videos, explain my points and i also installed and jumped on the game to ensure what I was saying was holding up with camera facing and attacking. Yet you are going to say I'm disrespectful and not even slightly giving the benefit of doubt without actually putting effort in? Now to me this is the first time you actually have been disrespectful. Not to mention i feel liek i have the impression you think i havn't played tab target mmorpgs for more then a shall amount of time like im not speaking from experience. I've played mmorpgs since i was a child i know plenty about them... And i know plenty about modern ones from their bad aspects as I'm very critical of them and their good aspects. Oh, well that's much easier to handle then. You gave your opinions for some reason and tried to back them up with things you think prove them. All you need to understand is 'no, the things that you brought as evidence are not proof to anyone else'.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » How about this, what tabs games don't have a GCD. Like i said I've played a lot of mmorpgs, to me in tab GCD is normal, if you don't have that it isn't normal. So then it wouldn't be part of the normal kinds of tab target mmorpgs. I dunno cause I haven't played those. But that's not even my main point here. My experience was unique in some way, just as yours or Noaani's or Azherae's. And I respect any of those experiences enough to trust those people when/if they say "to me this part of the game felt fluid". I mainly rely on their words exactly because I haven't played those games extensively myself. But they have. You seem to have not played those games either, yet you base your whole argument on completely different games you've played. This doesn't only show a very narrow-minded outlook on things, but, imo, shows disrespect to other people's experiences. By you saying "all tab games are literally same shit and are never fluid, you're literally telling Noaani that his years of playing the game were worthless and he should've been playing smth else". Obviously I'm sure that Noaani doesn't think that because, to me it seems, he has enough self-respect and confidence to not get hurt by someone else's opinion, but the underlying attitude of the discussion remains the same. You bring other people's experiences down just because you think that your opinion is the only valid one. Now you are skewing my words by saying I'm saying his time was worthless in a aspect that doesn't make sense as why would you be playing something else during that time of the game. Time frames and context matters. Its not narrowminded as you can clearly see in the video on EQ that it is stagged gameplay with high gcd. Saying your combat is fluid for the sake of saying it doesn't hold weight, i don't take bias into account i take facts on what is shown and explained. The same way i explained my reasoning for fluid combat with BDO. Global cooldowns are pretty much turn based combat, and turn based combat is not fluid. Enjoying the combat and likely it, have nothing to do if a combat is fluid or not. I can like swtor combat and say i enjoy the movement with it but being fluid is a different meaning all together. Remember im talking about everquest not L2 so you can't compare your game without global cooldowns that would be a different topic on that games being fluid. As far as disrespect goes I think that is a silly concept to compare to my comment. He simply said EQ2 was fluid, I disagreed and shared my fact on my thoughts on what makes fluid combat and pointed out reasons why I don't find EQ2 as fluid or a good example among tab target games. I'm not going to bs around I'll get to the point and provide examples, show videos, explain my points and i also installed and jumped on the game to ensure what I was saying was holding up with camera facing and attacking. Yet you are going to say I'm disrespectful and not even slightly giving the benefit of doubt without actually putting effort in? Now to me this is the first time you actually have been disrespectful. Not to mention i feel liek i have the impression you think i havn't played tab target mmorpgs for more then a shall amount of time like im not speaking from experience. I've played mmorpgs since i was a child i know plenty about them... And i know plenty about modern ones from their bad aspects as I'm very critical of them and their good aspects. Oh, well that's much easier to handle then. You gave your opinions for some reason and tried to back them up with things you think prove them. All you need to understand is 'no, the things that you brought as evidence are not proof to anyone else'. Well anyone can ignore any information and believe what they want to believe humans are compatible of that. Though if you feel your point is strong and someone shows you something you can easily counter and show them something else and have them understand what you mean why something else is better. But when your point is only I said so and you don't want to back it up it just becomes weaker but you are still fully able to believe whatever you want.
Mag7spy wrote: » Now you are skewing my words by saying I'm saying his time was worthless in a aspect that doesn't make sense as why would you be playing something else during that time of the game. Time frames and context matters.
Mag7spy wrote: » Its not narrowminded as you can clearly see in the video on EQ that it is stagged gameplay with high gcd. Saying your combat is fluid for the sake of saying it doesn't hold weight, i don't take bias into account i take facts on what is shown and explained. The same way i explained my reasoning for fluid combat with BDO. Global cooldowns are pretty much turn based combat, and turn based combat is not fluid. Enjoying the combat and likely it, have nothing to do if a combat is fluid or not. I can like swtor combat and say i enjoy the movement with it but being fluid is a different meaning all together. Remember im talking about everquest not L2 so you can't compare your game without global cooldowns that would be a different topic on that games being fluid.
Mag7spy wrote: » As far as disrespect goes I think that is a silly concept to compare to my comment. He simply said EQ2 was fluid, I disagreed and shared my fact on my thoughts on what makes fluid combat and pointed out reasons why I don't find EQ2 as fluid or a good example among tab target games. I'm not going to bs around I'll get to the point and provide examples, show videos, explain my points and i also installed and jumped on the game to ensure what I was saying was holding up with camera facing and attacking.
Mag7spy wrote: » Yet you are going to say I'm disrespectful and not even slightly giving the benefit of doubt without actually putting effort in? Now to me this is the first time you actually have been disrespectful. Not to mention i feel liek i have the impression you think i havn't played tab target mmorpgs for more then a shall amount of time like im not speaking from experience. I've played mmorpgs since i was a child i know plenty about them... And i know plenty about modern ones from their bad aspects as I'm very critical of them and their good aspects.
Mag7spy wrote: » Well anyone can ignore any information and believe what they want to believe humans are compatible of that. Though if you feel your point is strong and someone shows you something you can easily counter and show them something else and have them understand what you mean why something else is better. But when your point is only I said so and you don't want to back it up it just becomes weaker but you are still fully able to believe whatever you want.
Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Two reasons: 1. Most MMOs are bad. 2. If they had a particularly good MMO to play, since most good MMOs don't die, and don't get stale all that fast, they would have focused their time on that one and not had time to play too many others to the point where they would know if they were good or not. So, if you've played a lot of MMOs, I should just assume you played a lot of crappy knock-offs that came up in that era. The biggest argument against this that I can see is literally being as old as Dygz and just having enough time in your life to have played several great mmos for 5++ years each. Though even then, we've only got, what, around 25-30 years of "mmos"? So it's not like you could play too many of them. But yeah, even when I was starting out with L2, I tried perfect world, I tried just a bit on aion, a bit of MU online, some BDO later on, some B&S and was thinking of trying AA too - but through all those tryouts L2 was still better for my preferred gameplay. And having tried WoW way later in my gaming career, I'm glad that I didn't waste money on it back when it was limited cause that would've been a huge waste of $15. Sometimes you don't don't for 5+ years each or maybe you come back and play again. I'll give my mmorpg resume one more time. EQ, WoW, Shadowbane, City of heroes ( and villains), rift, age of conan, Swtor, champions online, Elder scrolls online , Neverwinter, guild wars 1+2, Black desert online, New world, Lost Ark. All played to different degrees of time, I have other mmorpgs as well but I don't really include them like AA sincei only had like 50 hours ish.
